Novel battery technology with neglible voltage decay...

[Jan Panteltje]

Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 9:21:37 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?

I guess this is related to the the self-discharge rate.

\"Most lithium-ion batteries have a self-discharge rate of between 0.5-3% per month.\"

For EV, this mostly affects long term parking after fully charged, when self-discharging is higher.
For normal usage, it\'s insignificant.

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?

Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

And lithium batteries have the added problem of catching fire at
random, and setting any neighboring such batteries alight, until all
are consumed. Which happens way too fast for everybody to escape.

Joe Gwinn

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?

With switching regulators, \"voltage decay\" isn\'t a problem.

Any technology that is novel, pivital, profound and promising is
probably also bogus.

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:47:13 AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:
Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?
Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

How do you calculate the energy density of battery, per pound?

And how about the shipping costs of kerosene vs. electricity?

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
<eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:47:13?AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:
Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?

Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

How do you calculate the energy density of battery, per pound?

The battery contains so much total energy in watt-seconds (Joules),
has a mass of XX grams and occupies YY liters of volume, and can
deliver power (watts) at maximum rate ZZ.

The issue is particularly acute for airplanes - one cannot fly across
the Atlantic or Pacific in a battery-powered airplane. You\'ll get
maybe 200 miles, then splash.


>And how about the shipping costs of kerosene vs. electricity?

For a vehicle, shipping costs are not the issue at all, but shipping
kerosene (or coal) is far cheaper than electricity, which is why there
are multitudes of local power generation plants versus five or so
immense central power plants and a lot of transmission systems.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Eddy Lee]

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 9:35:41 AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:47:13?AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:
Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?

Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

How do you calculate the energy density of battery, per pound?
The battery contains so much total energy in watt-seconds (Joules),
has a mass of XX grams and occupies YY liters of volume, and can
deliver power (watts) at maximum rate ZZ.

The issue is particularly acute for airplanes - one cannot fly across
the Atlantic or Pacific in a battery-powered airplane. You\'ll get
maybe 200 miles, then splash.

Yes, doesn\'t make sense for ICBM (M for Mobility), but perfect sense for short haul feeders.

And how about the shipping costs of kerosene vs. electricity?
For a vehicle, shipping costs are not the issue at all, but shipping
kerosene (or coal) is far cheaper than electricity, which is why there
are multitudes of local power generation plants versus five or so
immense central power plants and a lot of transmission systems.

But we have to consider incremental shipping costs. If we have to use one additional gallon of gasoline, it might come from the middle east or Russia, and we are spending billions in energy costs (wars).

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:48:52 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
<eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 9:35:41?AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:47:13?AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:
Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?

Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

How do you calculate the energy density of battery, per pound?
The battery contains so much total energy in watt-seconds (Joules),
has a mass of XX grams and occupies YY liters of volume, and can
deliver power (watts) at maximum rate ZZ.

The issue is particularly acute for airplanes - one cannot fly across
the Atlantic or Pacific in a battery-powered airplane. You\'ll get
maybe 200 miles, then splash.

Yes, doesn\'t make sense for ICBM (M for Mobility), but perfect sense for short haul feeders.

Possibly, at least as long as the taxpayer-funded subsidies last.

And how about the shipping costs of kerosene vs. electricity?
For a vehicle, shipping costs are not the issue at all, but shipping
kerosene (or coal) is far cheaper than electricity, which is why there
are multitudes of local power generation plants versus five or so
immense central power plants and a lot of transmission systems.

But we have to consider incremental shipping costs. If we have to use one additional gallon of gasoline, it might come from the middle east or Russia, and we are spending billions in energy costs (wars).

That\'s an acquisition cost, not a shipping cost.

We choose to outsource acquisition of oil and gas to less fussy
nations, so we don\'t have to do messy things like drill oil wells and
mine minerals ourselves. But there is no non-political reason why we
cannot drill and mine in the US.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Ricky]

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 10:47:13 AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:
Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?
Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

I didn\'t realize kerosene was the gold standard in battery technology.

I wonder if you realize kerosene is a factor of 3 smaller than kerosene?

And lithium batteries have the added problem of catching fire at
random, and setting any neighboring such batteries alight, until all
are consumed. Which happens way too fast for everybody to escape.

It is easy to separate the stupid people in sed from those who actually know how to read, by claims like this.

> Joe Gwinn

I guess we know which group Joe falls into.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Ricky]

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:30:08 PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:48:52 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 9:35:41?AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:47:13?AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:
Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?

Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

How do you calculate the energy density of battery, per pound?
The battery contains so much total energy in watt-seconds (Joules),
has a mass of XX grams and occupies YY liters of volume, and can
deliver power (watts) at maximum rate ZZ.

The issue is particularly acute for airplanes - one cannot fly across
the Atlantic or Pacific in a battery-powered airplane. You\'ll get
maybe 200 miles, then splash.

Yes, doesn\'t make sense for ICBM (M for Mobility), but perfect sense for short haul feeders.
Possibly, at least as long as the taxpayer-funded subsidies last.
And how about the shipping costs of kerosene vs. electricity?
For a vehicle, shipping costs are not the issue at all, but shipping
kerosene (or coal) is far cheaper than electricity, which is why there
are multitudes of local power generation plants versus five or so
immense central power plants and a lot of transmission systems.

But we have to consider incremental shipping costs. If we have to use one additional gallon of gasoline, it might come from the middle east or Russia, and we are spending billions in energy costs (wars).
That\'s an acquisition cost, not a shipping cost.

We choose to outsource acquisition of oil and gas to less fussy
nations, so we don\'t have to do messy things like drill oil wells and
mine minerals ourselves. But there is no non-political reason why we
cannot drill and mine in the US.

Joe Gwinn

Joe knows so little about reality. Presently, the US exports more crude oil than we import. The problem is not getting it out of the ground. The problem is that we then burn most of it, which releases carbon into the atmosphere. But then, I suppose that\'s another area where Joe has his own opinions.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 1:47:13 AM UTC+11, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:
Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?
Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

And lithium batteries have the added problem of catching fire at
random, and setting any neighboring such batteries alight, until all
are consumed. Which happens way too fast for everybody to escape.

Lithium batteries don\'t catch fire at random. Like all batteries, their self-discharge rate gets higher as they get older, which heats the battery even when it isn\'t doing anything useful, and raises the self-discharge rate. The fact that the core of the battery is warmer than it\'s environment is easy to monitor. Thermal runaway doesn\'t set in until the core of the battery gets above 125C (for electrodes that include nickel) and about 160C for those that don\'t.

If you don\'t pay any attention to the warning from the battery monitoring system, you might think that this happened at random, and several of or resident right-wing lunatics (Cursitor Doom and Flyguy) do have this delusion, but it is a delusion.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 3:35:41 AM UTC+11, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:47:13?AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:
Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?

Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

How do you calculate the energy density of battery, per pound?
The battery contains so much total energy in watt-seconds (Joules),
has a mass of XX grams and occupies YY liters of volume, and can
deliver power (watts) at maximum rate ZZ.

The issue is particularly acute for airplanes - one cannot fly across
the Atlantic or Pacific in a battery-powered airplane. You\'ll get
maybe 200 miles, then splash.

NASA would beg to differ. They\'ve had a battery powered aeroplane that has flown around the world without landing. It\'s covered with solar cells, which recharge the battery every day, adn it doesn\'t fly fast, but it hasn\'t splashed yet.

And how about the shipping costs of kerosene vs. electricity?

For a vehicle, shipping costs are not the issue at all, but shipping
kerosene (or coal) is far cheaper than electricity, which is why there
are multitudes of local power generation plants versus five or so
immense central power plants and a lot of transmission systems.

Some of that is history. Most of the local power generating plants were built before 500kV DC transmission links were practical.

And lots of parts of Europe put generating plants in city centres where the wast heat from the generator can be exploited for district heating.

The shipping cost of brown coal is lot higher than kerosene, and power generating plants burning brown coal tend to be built at the brown coal field.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Mon, 02 Oct 2023 08:58:36 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <21qlhi5l6f9o3rkmffnn6unnbr805pkc87@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:

Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?

With switching regulators, \"voltage decay\" isn\'t a problem.

Any technology that is novel, pivital, profound and promising is
probably also bogus.

eeeeh, steam engine, airplanes, etc etc

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 12:06:12 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:30:08?PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:48:52 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 9:35:41?AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:47:13?AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:
Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?

Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

How do you calculate the energy density of battery, per pound?
The battery contains so much total energy in watt-seconds (Joules),
has a mass of XX grams and occupies YY liters of volume, and can
deliver power (watts) at maximum rate ZZ.

The issue is particularly acute for airplanes - one cannot fly across
the Atlantic or Pacific in a battery-powered airplane. You\'ll get
maybe 200 miles, then splash.

Yes, doesn\'t make sense for ICBM (M for Mobility), but perfect sense for short haul feeders.
Possibly, at least as long as the taxpayer-funded subsidies last.
And how about the shipping costs of kerosene vs. electricity?
For a vehicle, shipping costs are not the issue at all, but shipping
kerosene (or coal) is far cheaper than electricity, which is why there
are multitudes of local power generation plants versus five or so
immense central power plants and a lot of transmission systems.

But we have to consider incremental shipping costs. If we have to use one additional gallon of gasoline, it might come from the middle east or Russia, and we are spending billions in energy costs (wars).
That\'s an acquisition cost, not a shipping cost.

We choose to outsource acquisition of oil and gas to less fussy
nations, so we don\'t have to do messy things like drill oil wells and
mine minerals ourselves. But there is no non-political reason why we
cannot drill and mine in the US.

Joe Gwinn

Joe knows so little about reality. Presently, the US exports more crude oil than we import. The problem is not getting it out of the ground. The problem is that we then burn most of it, which releases carbon into the atmosphere. But then, I suppose that\'s another area where Joe has his own opinions.

When the argument turns ad hominem, it\'s a sign of lack of ammunition.

..<https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/06/climate/biden-drilling-alaska-wildlife-refuge.html>

..<https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/biden-cancels-last-oil-and-gas-leases-in-alaskas-arctic-refuge-overturns-sales-held-by-trump>

..<https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2023/01/18/the-paradox-of-lithium/>

..<https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/20/business/electric-vehicles-lithium-quebec.html>

There are many more like this.

Joe Gwinn

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 3:24:20 AM UTC+11, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 12:06:12 -0700 (PDT), Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:30:08?PM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:48:52 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 9:35:41?AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee <eddy7...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:47:13?AM UTC-7, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:

<snip>

We choose to outsource acquisition of oil and gas to less fussy nations, so we don\'t have to do messy things like drill oil wells and mine minerals ourselves. But there is no non-political reason why we cannot drill and mine in the US.

Joe knows so little about reality. Presently, the US exports more crude oil than we import. The problem is not getting it out of the ground. The problem is that we then burn most of it, which releases carbon into the atmosphere. But then, I suppose that\'s another area where Joe has his own opinions.

When the argument turns ad hominem, it\'s a sign of lack of ammunition.

There\'s nothing ad hominem in pointing out that an individual has his own opinions. The implication is that they are a bit silly - as indeed they are.

<snipped stuff that Joe doesn\'t understand correctly>

> There are many more like this.

None of which mean what Joe wants them to mean.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 12:00:42 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 10:47:13?AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:
Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?
Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

I didn\'t realize kerosene was the gold standard in battery technology.

I wonder if you realize kerosene is a factor of 3 smaller than kerosene?

Do you really mean that?

And lithium batteries have the added problem of catching fire at
random, and setting any neighboring such batteries alight, until all
are consumed. Which happens way too fast for everybody to escape.

It is easy to separate the stupid people in sed from those who actually know how to read, by claims like this.

Joe Gwinn

I guess we know which group Joe falls into.

Ad hominem. Running low on ammo again.

What you are looking for are Ragone charts, which plot specific power
density versus specific energy density, of both weight in kg and
volume in liters, on log-log paper.

When one does this, fossil fuels and combustion engines are in the
upper right corner, and all battery stuff is down toward the lower
left corner.

But it\'s hard to find Ragone Charts covering both batteries and fossil
fuel. Mostly one sees only plots showing only the battery corner.

But it matters a lot for aviation. Consider this, reported by
Aviation Week:

\"Eurocontrol Says Quest For A Greener Widebody Is In Vain\", Thierry
Dubois, August 28, 2023, page 41 in the print issue (available at many
libraries).

..<https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/aircraft-propulsion/eurocontrol-says-quest-greener-widebody-vain>

Which may be behind a paywall. It summarizes the following paper from
Eurocontrol, published 22 August 2023:

EUROCONTROL Think Paper #21 - Long-haul flight decarbonisation: When
can cutting-edge energies & technologies make a difference?

..<https://www.eurocontrol.int/publication/eurocontrol-think-paper-21-long-haul-flight-decarbonisation-when-can-cutting-edge>

Joe Gwinn

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:31:19 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 12:00:42 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 10:47:13?AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 02 Oct 2023 04:21:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:
Novel battery technology with negligible voltage decay
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230928151711.htm

Summary:
A pivotal breakthrough in battery technology that has profound implications for our energy future has been achieved.

I know every week a new battery tech is announced, but this may be more real?
Yes. But the problem with batteries in general is that their power
and energy densities are about a factor of one hundred smaller than
that of kerosene.

I didn\'t realize kerosene was the gold standard in battery technology.

I wonder if you realize kerosene is a factor of 3 smaller than kerosene?

Do you really mean that?


And lithium batteries have the added problem of catching fire at
random, and setting any neighboring such batteries alight, until all
are consumed. Which happens way too fast for everybody to escape.

It is easy to separate the stupid people in sed from those who actually know how to read, by claims like this.

Joe Gwinn

I guess we know which group Joe falls into.


Ad hominem. Running low on ammo again.

He\'s actually Sloman, insults without intelligence. Ignore her.

What you are looking for are Ragone charts, which plot specific power
density versus specific energy density, of both weight in kg and
volume in liters, on log-log paper.

When one does this, fossil fuels and combustion engines are in the
upper right corner, and all battery stuff is down toward the lower
left corner.

But it\'s hard to find Ragone Charts covering both batteries and fossil
fuel. Mostly one sees only plots showing only the battery corner.

But it matters a lot for aviation. Consider this, reported by
Aviation Week:

\"Eurocontrol Says Quest For A Greener Widebody Is In Vain\", Thierry
Dubois, August 28, 2023, page 41 in the print issue (available at many
libraries).

.<https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/aircraft-propulsion/eurocontrol-says-quest-greener-widebody-vain

Which may be behind a paywall. It summarizes the following paper from
Eurocontrol, published 22 August 2023:

EUROCONTROL Think Paper #21 - Long-haul flight decarbonisation: When
can cutting-edge energies & technologies make a difference?

.<https://www.eurocontrol.int/publication/eurocontrol-think-paper-21-long-haul-flight-decarbonisation-when-can-cutting-edge

Joe Gwinn

Why do people keep reinventing supercaps made out of seaweed or
charcoal or whatever? Supercaps are even worse than batteries by about
1000:1. Somebody stores a millijoule and does a press release.