Nokia Battery pinout

[Heywood Jablome]

I'm after the pinout of a Nokia Lithium Ion battery. Part number BLC-2

Its the common one found in the 3350, 3315 etc. range of phones.

I see it has 4 pins. I wanted to build this battery into a circuit and
wanted to design an in circuit charger for it and need some basic charging
specs.

With the pages of crap I get when I google "nokia battery" or "nokia hack" I
have not found one good site with the specifications of this battery.

Any good leads?

 

[two bob]

I'm after the pinout of a Nokia Lithium Ion battery. Part number BLC-2

Its the common one found in the 3350, 3315 etc. range of phones.

I see it has 4 pins. I wanted to build this battery into a circuit and
wanted to design an in circuit charger for it and need some basic
charging
specs.

With the pages of crap I get when I google "nokia battery" or "nokia hack"
I
have not found one good site with the specifications of this battery.

Any good leads?

Yes, your multimeter leads.

 

[Heywood Jablome]

Any good leads?

Yes, your multimeter leads.

OK Let's label the pinouts as ABCD. The battery is fully charged. So I
measure just over 4V between A and D. Between A and C I measure just under
4V. Could this be a reverse protection diode in circuit? Could it be a
thermal switch with near 0 resistance? I could speculate, but I dunno.
I do not measure anything between A and B. Can I be sure that there is
nothing connected to B? Again I am none the wiser.

As the battery is very popular I would assume that someone out there has
already done the hard work for me. That's why I ask whether anyone has come
across a website with the internal details.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Heywood Jablome">

Any good leads?

Yes, your multimeter leads.


OK Let's label the pinouts as ABCD. The battery is fully charged. So I
measure just over 4V between A and D.

** The battery contacts are A & D.

Bet the polarity is marked in the plastic nearby as well.

Between A and C I measure just under
4V.

** The battery PLUS a series thermistor.

Could this be a reverse protection diode in circuit?

** No.

Could it be a
thermal switch with near 0 resistance?

I could speculate, but I dunno.

** That's for sure.

I do not measure anything between A and B.

** Now switch your multi-meter to ohms and probe between the contacts that
showed NO voltage reading

It will maybe read something like 50 ohms to 50 kohms.




............ Phil

 

[matt2-amstereo]

he'd be better off with the ni-mh battery in my opinion, lithium
batteries are very picky about how they are charged and likely to go
bang in a bad way if handled wrong, however, you could use an old 3310
or equiv' to hold and charge the battery and just tap from it with some
wire.

highly recommend using the ni-mh version if you are going to charge with
simple stuff.

 

[Heywood Jablome]

"Tom" <ttp@nospam.com> wrote in message news:43941512$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Heywood Jablome wrote:
I'm after the pinout of a Nokia Lithium Ion battery. Part number BLC-2

Its the common one found in the 3350, 3315 etc. range of phones.

I see it has 4 pins. I wanted to build this battery into a circuit and
wanted to design an in circuit charger for it and need some basic
charging
specs.

With the pages of crap I get when I google "nokia battery" or "nokia
hack" I
have not found one good site with the specifications of this battery.

Any good leads?

Two outside ones are + and - (marked on the label side). The other two
are for battery id (you can get BMC-3 which is NiMH in the same housing,
it works with the same phones). I've read some details about middle
terminals some months ago and don't remember very well. I think there is
a resistor between middle terminals with different value for BLC-2 and
BMC-3.

My own research - BLC-2 seems to have ~122 k resistor between the middle
terminals and nothing else while BMC-3 has ~39 k resistor between middle
terminals and a diode(?) between + and closest terminal - 0.37V one way
one no current other way.

I'll try to dig out the original info.

Tom

Thanks Tom. I'll investigate that and see what resistance I get. What I am
also interested in is the charge rate, maximum allowed discharge rate and
other specs, so if there is a reasonably reputable web site with these
figures, that would be nice.

I am quite aware of the dangers of incorrectly charging/discharging lithium
batteries. The charge circuit that I plan to build within my device will be
microprocessor controlled with fail safes. Unfortunately the space
requirement does not allow for a mobile phone to be inside the enclosure.

 

[Poxy]

Michael C wrote:

"Heywood Jablome" <reply to thread> wrote in message
news:4393e68d$0$18199$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

I'm after the pinout of a Nokia Lithium Ion battery. Part number
BLC-2

Its the common one found in the 3350, 3315 etc. range of phones.

I see it has 4 pins. I wanted to build this battery into a circuit
and wanted to design an in circuit charger for it and need some
basic charging
specs.

With the pages of crap I get when I google "nokia battery" or "nokia
hack" I
have not found one good site with the specifications of this battery.

Any good leads?

Pull the battery apart. If you don't want to destroy your ask a phone
shop if they have any dead ones.

You're probably better off researching lithium ion chargers - I understand
their charging regime is different to NiMH and NiCad, and I'm fairly sure
that with the correct circuit you can charge them properly using only the +
and - terminals, so you don't really need to know what the other connections
are for.

 

[Stan Blazejewski]

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:23:13 +1000, Tom <ttp@nospam.com> wrote:

Heywood Jablome wrote:
I'm after the pinout of a Nokia Lithium Ion battery. Part number BLC-2

Its the common one found in the 3350, 3315 etc. range of phones.

I see it has 4 pins. I wanted to build this battery into a circuit and
wanted to design an in circuit charger for it and need some basic charging
specs.

With the pages of crap I get when I google "nokia battery" or "nokia hack" I
have not found one good site with the specifications of this battery.

Any good leads?

Two outside ones are + and - (marked on the label side). The other two
are for battery id (you can get BMC-3 which is NiMH in the same housing,
it works with the same phones). I've read some details about middle
terminals some months ago and don't remember very well. I think there is
a resistor between middle terminals with different value for BLC-2 and
BMC-3.

My own research - BLC-2 seems to have ~122 k resistor between the middle
terminals and nothing else while BMC-3 has ~39 k resistor between middle
terminals and a diode(?) between + and closest terminal - 0.37V one way
one no current other way.

I'll try to dig out the original info.

Tom
The 2 center terminals 'should' be a temp sensor for use with a delta time/delta

temp charging system. Easy way to tell is if it changes when it's warmed up in
the hands or cooled in the fridge.
--

Australia isn't "down under", it's "off to one side"!

stanblaz@netspace.net.au
www.cobracat.com (home of the Australian Cobra Catamaran)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cobra-cat/

 

[Phil Allison]

"Poxy"

Phil Allison wrote:


** If a sealed battery is fed with a continuous supply electrical
energy AFTER its charging reaction has been completed - what do you
expect would happen to it ???

Convert the energy into mass - maybe ???

You are right - the energy has to go somewhere - obviously in increasing
mass...

** Whooosh ...............


BTW

Batteries are CHEMICAL machines - not electronic components..

They are products of the CHEMICAL engineering industry.

Very bloody secretive.

Very bloody weird stuff.

Full of outrageous scams.

See my contributions to EA magazine re: the great DSE Ni-Cd fraud .





........ Phil

 

[budgie]

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 11:55:56 GMT, "Poxy" <pox@poxymail.com> wrote:

Stan Blazejewski wrote:

The 2 center terminals 'should' be a temp sensor for use with a delta
time/delta temp charging system. Easy way to tell is if it changes
when it's warmed up in the hands or cooled in the fridge.

I know temperature change is often used for detecting end of charge for
NiCads, but is it also used for LiIon?

NO!

 

[budgie]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:17:51 +1100, "Heywood Jablome" <reply to thread> wrote:

and I'm fairly sure
that with the correct circuit you can charge them properly using only the
+
and - terminals, so you don't really need to know what the other
connections
are for.



I have looked into charging lithiums. The general practice is to hold a
constant current till the battery reaches 4.2V, then taper off the current
and hold the voltage at 4.2V till the charge current is under 10% of what it
initially started at. Then switch off. (no trickle charge)

Yup.

It would still be nice tho to find a web page of someone who has already
done something like this. I'm sure they have and I'm sure there is a web
site that describes it but its a shame that these phones and batteries are
so popular that every site I find using google is one that wants to sell me
nokia accessories!!!

I have designed a commercially available Li-Ion charger, and unfortunately they
aren't cheap if they are any good. My client tested many available units before
deciding to commission his own product, based on their unsuitability for one
reason or another.

For the record I'd prefer not to open the battery so I would still like to
know for sure what is connected to the other terminals and other specs.
including charge current etc.

It is probably either of two items: a protection module connection or a temp
sensor.

Temp is used as a charge "qualifier" (charging is inhibited if temp is too
high/low).

Protection modules are normally employed in multi-cell packs. Their roles
include over-voltage/under-voltage/over-current protection as well as monitoring
and intervening in the event of cell voltage mismatch. The latter is necessary
when a two-terminal approach is to be employed in charging/discharging a series
string of cells, as otherwise cell voltage imbalance can cause individual cells
to go under/over-voltage while the pack voltage is within spec. Because of the
safety implications of this, protection is employed.

In a single-cell application (of which cellphones are the most typical), there
is obviously no imablance issue so teh rpotection required is purely related to
charge/discharge voltage and excess current situations. It makes sense - not
always the driver of design/production though - to incorporate as much of this
circuitry as is possible in the phone rather than the (disposable) cell. So I
would not expect there to be too much of the protection system housed within the
cell package. This is particularly so as the terminals on your 3315 type phone
are fairly well protected from external contact when in the normal operating
position.

Certainly thoughtful use of a DMM would reveal good clues as to the nature of
anything connected to those extra terminals.

 

[two bob]

Any good leads?

Yes, your multimeter leads.


OK Let's label the pinouts as ABCD. The battery is fully charged. So I
measure just over 4V between A and D. Between A and C I measure just under
4V. Could this be a reverse protection diode in circuit? Could it be a
thermal switch with near 0 resistance? I could speculate, but I dunno.
I do not measure anything between A and B. Can I be sure that there is
nothing connected to B? Again I am none the wiser.

As the battery is very popular I would assume that someone out there has
already done the hard work for me. That's why I ask whether anyone has
come
across a website with the internal details.

Forget the battery, why not check the charger you already have.

 

[Tom]

Heywood Jablome wrote:

I'm after the pinout of a Nokia Lithium Ion battery. Part number BLC-2

Its the common one found in the 3350, 3315 etc. range of phones.

I see it has 4 pins. I wanted to build this battery into a circuit and
wanted to design an in circuit charger for it and need some basic charging
specs.

With the pages of crap I get when I google "nokia battery" or "nokia hack" I
have not found one good site with the specifications of this battery.

Any good leads?

Two outside ones are + and - (marked on the label side). The other two
are for battery id (you can get BMC-3 which is NiMH in the same housing,
it works with the same phones). I've read some details about middle
terminals some months ago and don't remember very well. I think there is
a resistor between middle terminals with different value for BLC-2 and
BMC-3.

My own research - BLC-2 seems to have ~122 k resistor between the middle
terminals and nothing else while BMC-3 has ~39 k resistor between middle
terminals and a diode(?) between + and closest terminal - 0.37V one way
one no current other way.

I'll try to dig out the original info.

Tom

 

[Michael C]

"Heywood Jablome" <reply to thread> wrote in message
news:4393e68d$0$18199$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

I'm after the pinout of a Nokia Lithium Ion battery. Part number BLC-2

Its the common one found in the 3350, 3315 etc. range of phones.

I see it has 4 pins. I wanted to build this battery into a circuit and
wanted to design an in circuit charger for it and need some basic
charging
specs.

With the pages of crap I get when I google "nokia battery" or "nokia hack"
I
have not found one good site with the specifications of this battery.

Any good leads?

Pull the battery apart. If you don't want to destroy your ask a phone shop
if they have any dead ones.

 

[Michael C]

"two bob" <4> wrote in message news:4393ef11$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

Forget the battery, why not check the charger you already have.

That would be the phone wouldn't it?

 

[budgie]

On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:36:45 GMT, "Poxy" <pox@poxymail.com> wrote:

Michael C wrote:
"Heywood Jablome" <reply to thread> wrote in message
news:4393e68d$0$18199$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...

I'm after the pinout of a Nokia Lithium Ion battery. Part number
BLC-2

Its the common one found in the 3350, 3315 etc. range of phones.

I see it has 4 pins. I wanted to build this battery into a circuit
and wanted to design an in circuit charger for it and need some
basic charging
specs.

With the pages of crap I get when I google "nokia battery" or "nokia
hack" I
have not found one good site with the specifications of this battery.

Any good leads?

Pull the battery apart. If you don't want to destroy your ask a phone
shop if they have any dead ones.

You're probably better off researching lithium ion chargers - I understand
their charging regime is different to NiMH and NiCad

correct

and I'm fairly sure
that with the correct circuit you can charge them properly using only the +
and - terminals, so you don't really need to know what the other connections
are for.

correct

 

[Poxy]

Stan Blazejewski wrote:

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:23:13 +1000, Tom <ttp@nospam.com> wrote:

Heywood Jablome wrote:
I'm after the pinout of a Nokia Lithium Ion battery. Part number
BLC-2

Its the common one found in the 3350, 3315 etc. range of phones.

I see it has 4 pins. I wanted to build this battery into a circuit
and wanted to design an in circuit charger for it and need some
basic charging specs.

With the pages of crap I get when I google "nokia battery" or
"nokia hack" I have not found one good site with the specifications
of this battery.

Any good leads?

Two outside ones are + and - (marked on the label side). The other
two are for battery id (you can get BMC-3 which is NiMH in the same
housing, it works with the same phones). I've read some details
about middle terminals some months ago and don't remember very well.
I think there is a resistor between middle terminals with different
value for BLC-2 and BMC-3.

My own research - BLC-2 seems to have ~122 k resistor between the
middle terminals and nothing else while BMC-3 has ~39 k resistor
between middle terminals and a diode(?) between + and closest
terminal - 0.37V one way one no current other way.

I'll try to dig out the original info.

Tom
The 2 center terminals 'should' be a temp sensor for use with a delta
time/delta temp charging system. Easy way to tell is if it changes
when it's warmed up in the hands or cooled in the fridge.

I know temperature change is often used for detecting end of charge for
NiCads, but is it also used for LiIon?

 

[Phil Allison]

"Poxy"

I know temperature change is often used for detecting end of charge for
NiCads, but is it also used for LiIon?

** If a sealed battery is fed with a continuous supply electrical energy
AFTER its charging reaction has been completed - what do you expect would
happen to it ???

Convert the energy into mass - maybe ???




.......... Phil

 

[Poxy]

Phil Allison wrote:

"Poxy"


I know temperature change is often used for detecting end of charge
for NiCads, but is it also used for LiIon?


** If a sealed battery is fed with a continuous supply electrical
energy AFTER its charging reaction has been completed - what do you
expect would happen to it ???

Convert the energy into mass - maybe ???

You are right - the energy has to go somewhere - obviously in increasing
mass... But in my admittedly limited experience with lithium polymer
batteries, my charger doesn't use temperature sensing. I'm wondering whether
temperature change is customarily used in consumer devices like mobile
phones.

In my case, the charger tapers the charge current, which I assume means some
kind of constant-voltage charge.

 

[Phil Allison]

"budgie"

"Poxy"

Stan Blazejewski wrote:

The 2 center terminals 'should' be a temp sensor for use with a delta
time/delta temp charging system. Easy way to tell is if it changes
when it's warmed up in the hands or cooled in the fridge.

I know temperature change is often used for detecting end of charge for
NiCads, but is it also used for LiIon?

NO!

** The topic deserves more than one word and there are plenty on the net:


Eg http://www.powerstream.com/li.htm




........... Phil