Nightmare Sony PTV

C

Chris F.

Guest
Bought this from another "tech" for $40, he'd given up on it and rightly
so. It's a 1986 model, and only 36" in size, which is rather small for a
PTV. But it has a very large list of problems. When I first plugged it in I
only got a loud arc and an instantly blown HOT. Several replacement HOTs and
three replaced anode connectors later (the old ones were cracked), I finally
got it powered but with some HV hiss remaining. The HV measured at 28kv, and
the focus at 12kv. This seems a bit high to me. The high voltage stays the
same from about 75V up, when powered with a Variac.
Anyway, the focus was very poor, there were yellow patches in the picture,
the chroma signal was missing, and when the set would run for more than five
minutes without arcing, the HOT would blow from overheating. I concentrated
on the yellow patches, suspecting phospor burns on the blue CRT. But what I
found was quite strange. I removed the outer lens, and noticed large chunks
of dirt or something between the face of the CRT and the small concave lens.
I attempted to remove the lens, only to spill the cooling fluid onto the
board below! With my patience about to expire with violent results, I
decided to leave the thing alone and get some advice.
My main concern is that even if I could get this working, I wouldn't be
able to trust it. At least not to the point of selling it to a customer. And
even if I could, it appears that I'd have a very rough repair ahead of me.
With extremely limited space, other pending jobs, and health problems that
limit the amount of time and energy I can spend on a project, my eye is on
the trash pile. And unless somebody can give me a good reason to keep trying
on this thing, the trash pile is exactly where it's going.
Thanks for any advice.
 
Chris,

Although I do not have any expertise on this products, and although I repair
TVs more as a hobby, I can offer some "wisdom" rather than technical advice.

On several occasions I have come across a piece of equipment which I
obtained for nothing or next to nothing because it had a "slight" defect. In
trying to fix that defect I'd reach a stage where I'd spend more money on
parts than the thing was worth. It pays to know when to call it quits.

--
Henry Mydlarz

remove spam to reply

"Chris F." <zappyman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zKSvb.34382$R13.1042056@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
Bought this from another "tech" for $40, he'd given up on it and rightly
so. It's a 1986 model, and only 36" in size, which is rather small for a
PTV. But it has a very large list of problems. When I first plugged it in
I
only got a loud arc and an instantly blown HOT. Several replacement HOTs
and
three replaced anode connectors later (the old ones were cracked), I
finally
got it powered but with some HV hiss remaining. The HV measured at 28kv,
and
the focus at 12kv. This seems a bit high to me. The high voltage stays the
same from about 75V up, when powered with a Variac.
Anyway, the focus was very poor, there were yellow patches in the
picture,
the chroma signal was missing, and when the set would run for more than
five
minutes without arcing, the HOT would blow from overheating. I
concentrated
on the yellow patches, suspecting phospor burns on the blue CRT. But what
I
found was quite strange. I removed the outer lens, and noticed large
chunks
of dirt or something between the face of the CRT and the small concave
lens.
I attempted to remove the lens, only to spill the cooling fluid onto the
board below! With my patience about to expire with violent results, I
decided to leave the thing alone and get some advice.
My main concern is that even if I could get this working, I wouldn't be
able to trust it. At least not to the point of selling it to a customer.
And
even if I could, it appears that I'd have a very rough repair ahead of me.
With extremely limited space, other pending jobs, and health problems that
limit the amount of time and energy I can spend on a project, my eye is on
the trash pile. And unless somebody can give me a good reason to keep
trying
on this thing, the trash pile is exactly where it's going.
Thanks for any advice.
Click to expand...
 
I would not want to get in to this one, but you will have to spend a lot of
money, and time to get this one going!

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"Chris F." <zappyman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zKSvb.34382$R13.1042056@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
Bought this from another "tech" for $40, he'd given up on it and rightly
so. It's a 1986 model, and only 36" in size, which is rather small for a
PTV. But it has a very large list of problems. When I first plugged it in I
only got a loud arc and an instantly blown HOT. Several replacement HOTs and
three replaced anode connectors later (the old ones were cracked), I finally
got it powered but with some HV hiss remaining. The HV measured at 28kv, and
the focus at 12kv. This seems a bit high to me. The high voltage stays the
same from about 75V up, when powered with a Variac.
Anyway, the focus was very poor, there were yellow patches in the picture,
the chroma signal was missing, and when the set would run for more than five
minutes without arcing, the HOT would blow from overheating. I concentrated
on the yellow patches, suspecting phospor burns on the blue CRT. But what I
found was quite strange. I removed the outer lens, and noticed large chunks
of dirt or something between the face of the CRT and the small concave lens.
I attempted to remove the lens, only to spill the cooling fluid onto the
board below! With my patience about to expire with violent results, I
decided to leave the thing alone and get some advice.
My main concern is that even if I could get this working, I wouldn't be
able to trust it. At least not to the point of selling it to a customer. And
even if I could, it appears that I'd have a very rough repair ahead of me.
With extremely limited space, other pending jobs, and health problems that
limit the amount of time and energy I can spend on a project, my eye is on
the trash pile. And unless somebody can give me a good reason to keep trying
on this thing, the trash pile is exactly where it's going.
Thanks for any advice.
 
Subject: Nightmare Sony PTV
From: "Chris F." zappyman@hotmail.com
Date: 11/22/03 6:58 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:
Click to expand...
With my patience about to expire with violent results, I
decided to leave the thing alone and get some advice.
Click to expand...
Chris, there is no logical reason for wasting any more time with this TV.
There are lots of people here who could totally rebuild that TV and have it
perfectly reliable, even at it's age. (I have an old Sony front projo in my
basement) The reality is that after spending an obscene amount of time and
replacing all the bad parts (and dealing with it's new coolant leak), it will
still have a marginal picture when done.

John Del
Wolcott, CT

"I'm just trying to get into heaven, I'm not running for Jesus!"
Homer Simpson

(remove S for email reply)
 
I think it would require much more time than money - I'd only need to buy a
service manual and a new bottle of coolant. But in terms of time required,
this would certainly be a you-know-what to fix.

I removed the lenses completely from that CRT, and it appears that the
coolant actually crystallized on the CRT surface. A quick inspection of the
other two CRTs showed similar problems on each, though to a lesser extent.

I'd say this thing probably outlived its usefulness several years ago. Not
worth bothering with, when a new Sony Wega of the same size would produce a
far better picture. Not that I can afford one though.....
John Del <ohger1s@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031123080335.01467.00000615@mb-m20.aol.com...
Subject: Nightmare Sony PTV
From: "Chris F." zappyman@hotmail.com
Date: 11/22/03 6:58 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

With my patience about to expire with violent results, I
decided to leave the thing alone and get some advice.

Chris, there is no logical reason for wasting any more time with this TV.
There are lots of people here who could totally rebuild that TV and have
it
perfectly reliable, even at it's age. (I have an old Sony front projo in
my
basement) The reality is that after spending an obscene amount of time
and
replacing all the bad parts (and dealing with it's new coolant leak), it
will
still have a marginal picture when done.

John Del
Wolcott, CT

"I'm just trying to get into heaven, I'm not running for Jesus!"
Homer Simpson

(remove S for email reply)
Click to expand...
 
Just curious, but how much damage would that coolant spill actually do? I
measured some of the liquid with a DMM and it seems quite conductive indeed,
but will it eventually dry or something?

If I'm not mistaken, this is the same stuff used in those little heating
tins you buy for camping or power outages (ethelyne glycol).

Chris F. <zappyman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:zKSvb.34382$R13.1042056@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
Bought this from another "tech" for $40, he'd given up on it and rightly
so. It's a 1986 model, and only 36" in size, which is rather small for a
PTV. But it has a very large list of problems. When I first plugged it in
I
only got a loud arc and an instantly blown HOT. Several replacement HOTs
and
three replaced anode connectors later (the old ones were cracked), I
finally
got it powered but with some HV hiss remaining. The HV measured at 28kv,
and
the focus at 12kv. This seems a bit high to me. The high voltage stays the
same from about 75V up, when powered with a Variac.
Anyway, the focus was very poor, there were yellow patches in the
picture,
the chroma signal was missing, and when the set would run for more than
five
minutes without arcing, the HOT would blow from overheating. I
concentrated
on the yellow patches, suspecting phospor burns on the blue CRT. But what
I
found was quite strange. I removed the outer lens, and noticed large
chunks
of dirt or something between the face of the CRT and the small concave
lens.
I attempted to remove the lens, only to spill the cooling fluid onto the
board below! With my patience about to expire with violent results, I
decided to leave the thing alone and get some advice.
My main concern is that even if I could get this working, I wouldn't be
able to trust it. At least not to the point of selling it to a customer.
And
even if I could, it appears that I'd have a very rough repair ahead of me.
With extremely limited space, other pending jobs, and health problems that
limit the amount of time and energy I can spend on a project, my eye is on
the trash pile. And unless somebody can give me a good reason to keep
trying
on this thing, the trash pile is exactly where it's going.
Thanks for any advice.
Click to expand...
 
The coolant will effectively never evaporate. It will corrode any metal it
came into contact with over time. It works its way into every little nook
and cranny it can, be it coil windings, etc.

Same advise, before the coolant spill, might have been worth attempting a
fix. After the coolant spill, toss it.

Keep the fresnel lens and lenticular screen however, especially if there are
no scratches. At the very least I have done some really cool experiments
with the fresnel lens and sunlight, cooking hotdogs and things very rapidly
by sunlight.

David

Chris F. <zappyman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DI4wb.34684$R13.1062899@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
I think it would require much more time than money - I'd only need to buy
a
service manual and a new bottle of coolant. But in terms of time required,
this would certainly be a you-know-what to fix.

I removed the lenses completely from that CRT, and it appears that the
coolant actually crystallized on the CRT surface. A quick inspection of
the
other two CRTs showed similar problems on each, though to a lesser extent.

I'd say this thing probably outlived its usefulness several years ago. Not
worth bothering with, when a new Sony Wega of the same size would produce
a
far better picture. Not that I can afford one though.....
John Del <ohger1s@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031123080335.01467.00000615@mb-m20.aol.com...
Subject: Nightmare Sony PTV
From: "Chris F." zappyman@hotmail.com
Date: 11/22/03 6:58 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

With my patience about to expire with violent results, I
decided to leave the thing alone and get some advice.

Chris, there is no logical reason for wasting any more time with this
TV.
There are lots of people here who could totally rebuild that TV and have
it
perfectly reliable, even at it's age. (I have an old Sony front projo in
my
basement) The reality is that after spending an obscene amount of time
and
replacing all the bad parts (and dealing with it's new coolant leak), it
will
still have a marginal picture when done.

John Del
Wolcott, CT

"I'm just trying to get into heaven, I'm not running for Jesus!"
Homer Simpson

(remove S for email reply)
Click to expand...
 
The coolant may not have spilled into any coils or transformers, though it
certainly got onto some ICs. That's what I could really kick myself over.
Honestly though, even when PTVs do work, I don't like the picture quality.

David <dkuhajda@locl.net.spam> wrote in message
news:3fc1252e@news.greennet.net...
The coolant will effectively never evaporate. It will corrode any metal
it
came into contact with over time. It works its way into every little nook
and cranny it can, be it coil windings, etc.

Same advise, before the coolant spill, might have been worth attempting a
fix. After the coolant spill, toss it.

Keep the fresnel lens and lenticular screen however, especially if there
are
no scratches. At the very least I have done some really cool experiments
with the fresnel lens and sunlight, cooking hotdogs and things very
rapidly
by sunlight.

David

Chris F. <zappyman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DI4wb.34684$R13.1062899@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
I think it would require much more time than money - I'd only need to
buy
a
service manual and a new bottle of coolant. But in terms of time
required,
this would certainly be a you-know-what to fix.

I removed the lenses completely from that CRT, and it appears that the
coolant actually crystallized on the CRT surface. A quick inspection of
the
other two CRTs showed similar problems on each, though to a lesser
extent.

I'd say this thing probably outlived its usefulness several years ago.
Not
worth bothering with, when a new Sony Wega of the same size would
produce
a
far better picture. Not that I can afford one though.....
John Del <ohger1s@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031123080335.01467.00000615@mb-m20.aol.com...
Subject: Nightmare Sony PTV
From: "Chris F." zappyman@hotmail.com
Date: 11/22/03 6:58 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

With my patience about to expire with violent results, I
decided to leave the thing alone and get some advice.

Chris, there is no logical reason for wasting any more time with this
TV.
There are lots of people here who could totally rebuild that TV and
have
it
perfectly reliable, even at it's age. (I have an old Sony front projo
in
my
basement) The reality is that after spending an obscene amount of
time
and
replacing all the bad parts (and dealing with it's new coolant leak),
it
will
still have a marginal picture when done.

John Del
Wolcott, CT

"I'm just trying to get into heaven, I'm not running for Jesus!"
Homer Simpson

(remove S for email reply)
Click to expand...
 
If the CRTs were bright, you might try offering them for sale, or even
putting them on ebay. The corroded metal can be sealed and the coolant
refilled. These CRTs were used in a number of sony projection TVs and
are VERY expensive. I assume it's a 37XBR which do look very good when
working properly.

--
Andy Cuffe
baltimora@psu.edu
 
Are you talking about corroded metal on the board below, where the coolant
spilled?

Andy Cuffe <baltimora@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:3FC16ED9.2CCE@psu.edu...
If the CRTs were bright, you might try offering them for sale, or even
putting them on ebay. The corroded metal can be sealed and the coolant
refilled. These CRTs were used in a number of sony projection TVs and
are VERY expensive. I assume it's a 37XBR which do look very good when
working properly.

--
Andy Cuffe
baltimora@psu.edu
Click to expand...
 
Chris F. wrote:
Are you talking about corroded metal on the board below, where the coolant
spilled?

Andy Cuffe <baltimora@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:3FC16ED9.2CCE@psu.edu...
If the CRTs were bright, you might try offering them for sale, or even
putting them on ebay. The corroded metal can be sealed and the coolant
refilled. These CRTs were used in a number of sony projection TVs and
are VERY expensive. I assume it's a 37XBR which do look very good when
working properly.

--
Andy Cuffe
baltimora@psu.edu
Click to expand...

I was talking about the pitted metal inside the coolant chamber that
caused it to go cloudy. As for board clean up, I would rinse the whole
board under running water. That should wash away all of the spilled
coolant. If any got on the yokes, rinse them too. Make sure to allow
them to dry for several days in a warm, dry place.
--
Andy Cuffe
baltimora@psu.edu
 
Yeah there was a spot of pitted metal inside the coolant chamber. I wonder
if I could seal that with epoxy or something?

Andy Cuffe <baltimora@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:3FC2420E.3F3B@psu.edu...
Chris F. wrote:

Are you talking about corroded metal on the board below, where the
coolant
spilled?

Andy Cuffe <baltimora@psu.edu> wrote in message
news:3FC16ED9.2CCE@psu.edu...
If the CRTs were bright, you might try offering them for sale, or even
putting them on ebay. The corroded metal can be sealed and the
coolant
refilled. These CRTs were used in a number of sony projection TVs and
are VERY expensive. I assume it's a 37XBR which do look very good
when
working properly.

--
Andy Cuffe
baltimora@psu.edu


I was talking about the pitted metal inside the coolant chamber that
caused it to go cloudy. As for board clean up, I would rinse the whole
board under running water. That should wash away all of the spilled
coolant. If any got on the yokes, rinse them too. Make sure to allow
them to dry for several days in a warm, dry place.
--
Andy Cuffe
baltimora@psu.edu
Click to expand...
 
Andy; I think this is a KPR36XBR (no suffix). The original XBR projection. I am
quite familiar with them and actually own one. Unfortunately the fresnel
experiments aren't going to work, the fresnel and lenticular are integrated on
this set.

Chris; I agree that after the coolant leak it might be worth scrapping. These
TVs have a bit of intrinsic value. I own one and although they are not all that
bright, they are exceedingly sharp if tuned up correctly. They also have
superior colorimetry, you'll not see a bluer blue nor a redder red on a TV set.
The color depth and resolution are truly excellent. Also, it is possible to
achieve <u>perfect</u> convergence. If you don't believe me, come look at mine.


If you are going to actually throw it out I might be interested in picking it
up if you're not too far away. I'll trade you something for it or a few bucks
if you want. I'm in Ohio, and a friend of mine owns one as well and he has a
truck.

FYI, the tubes and probably the yokes are compatible with the EX series Sony
RPTVs, which had discreet HV an Hsweep, they pushed the tubes alot harder and
many of them need at least the blue tube. The main chassis parts are compatible
with XBR direct view of that era and some Profeels. All of these are old sets,
but if you got one that looks good you want to keep it.

JURB
 
You're right, that's the exact model number. I decided to give it another
crack - I'm going to try to clean up the coolant spill and go from there.
The coolant mostly got into some resistors and ICs, and did not get into the
IF or other really sensitive areas. I'm going to try spraying it with a
low-pressure water hose (to the affected areas only) and dry it out for a
week or two. After that, I have three major problems to take care of other
than the CRTs:
- Poor convergence (left side of screen only)
- Excess high voltage causing arcing / blown HOT
- No chroma
Just poking around last night, I found an open cap just off the flyback,
which might be the cause of the poor convergence if not more. The HV
problem, I'm not sure of. This set does not use an STR regulator so without
a service manual, it will be tough to find this problem. Same goes for the
missing chroma. I'm going to call a supplier and see what a service manual
would cost (unless one of you guys have one......), just for fun. If I can
correct these three problems, then I'll order some coolant and get to work
on the CRTs.
The CRTs themselves are in excellent shape, so maybe it's worth a try
after all.
JURB, I don't think you'd want to drive out to New Brunswick, Canada to
pick up this set! If I do give up on it eventually, I will probably put the
CRTs and lenses up on Ebay.
Thanks for the advice, I'll let you know how I make out (might be a couple
of months.....)
-Chris
JURB6006 &lt;jurb6006@aol.com&gt; wrote in message
news:20031126194906.20096.00001035@mb-m02.aol.com...
Andy; I think this is a KPR36XBR (no suffix). The original XBR projection.
I am
quite familiar with them and actually own one. Unfortunately the fresnel
experiments aren't going to work, the fresnel and lenticular are
integrated on
this set.

Chris; I agree that after the coolant leak it might be worth scrapping.
These
TVs have a bit of intrinsic value. I own one and although they are not all
that
bright, they are exceedingly sharp if tuned up correctly. They also have
superior colorimetry, you'll not see a bluer blue nor a redder red on a TV
set.
The color depth and resolution are truly excellent. Also, it is possible
to
achieve <u>perfect</u> convergence. If you don't believe me, come look at
mine.


If you are going to actually throw it out I might be interested in picking
it
up if you're not too far away. I'll trade you something for it or a few
bucks
if you want. I'm in Ohio, and a friend of mine owns one as well and he has
a
truck.

FYI, the tubes and probably the yokes are compatible with the EX series
Sony
RPTVs, which had discreet HV an Hsweep, they pushed the tubes alot harder
and
many of them need at least the blue tube. The main chassis parts are
compatible
with XBR direct view of that era and some Profeels. All of these are old
sets,
but if you got one that looks good you want to keep it.

JURB
Click to expand...
 
"Chris F." &lt;zappyman@hotmail.com&gt; wrote in message
news:%roxb.37886$R13.1208242@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
You're right, that's the exact model number. I decided to give it another
crack - I'm going to try to clean up the coolant spill and go from there.
The coolant mostly got into some resistors and ICs, and did not get into
the
IF or other really sensitive areas. I'm going to try spraying it with a
low-pressure water hose (to the affected areas only) and dry it out for a
week or two. After that, I have three major problems to take care of other
than the CRTs:
- Poor convergence (left side of screen only)
- Excess high voltage causing arcing / blown HOT
- No chroma
Just poking around last night, I found an open cap just off the flyback,
which might be the cause of the poor convergence if not more.
Click to expand...
You'd be amazed at what an open cap in that area can cause, good chance
that's responsible for the excessive HV and blown HOT at the very least.
 
Check the caps in the power supply. This set uses a switching power
supply in a metal box that's mounted off to the side somewhere. I think
its output should be around 135v.
--
Andy Cuffe
baltimora@psu.edu
 
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