Newbie Question: Which tool(s) to use?

S

Steven O.

Guest
Hi, all. I'm a tech writer, and recently decided to learn more about
electronics. Along the way I've picked up four or five textbooks,
most of which came with various software -- some student versions,
some trial versions, etc.

I finally signed up for an actual course on introductory Digital
Design, and we are using a book Digital Design by Morris Mano. The
book comes with software from SynaptiCAD, but most of the stuff only
runs in seriously crippled mode (no Saving, for instance); you can
get a 30-day trial license, but after that you have to pay huge sums
of money to run the software. (I went to their Web site, and could
not find personal or student versions for most of this stuff, with one
exception:)

It does come with one "lite" version that seems to be operational, a
program called WaveFormer Lite. (The other, cripple-ware programs are
called VeriLogger Pro, Timing Diagrammer Pro, and DataSheet Pro.)

Now -- and I'm working my way up to my question -- the professor
already told us that we don't need to use any of the software for the
class. (And, apparently, he plans to offer no instruction on how to
use the software.) But it seems to me it might help me to use some
CAD software, both to better understand the material, and to work more
effectively with the EEs that I deal with on the job (which is the
real, main goal of this exercise).

So, the question is, of all the various software I've accumulated,
which of this stuff should I try to learn? There's a lot of software,
and I have no idea which of it is really applicable for my current
needs. The criteria, at least for now, are:

1. Is relevant for learning the basics of digital design. (Some
major chapters in the book: Combinational Logic, Synchronous
Sequential Logic, Registers and Counters, Memory and Programmable
Logic, Register Transfer Level, Asynchronous Sequential Logic). The
back cover indicates that the book uses Verilog HDL.

2. The software can be a limited, student version -- perhaps it won't
let me build a commercial-scale application -- but it has to let me
build applications large enough for typical student purposes, and to
save them.

3. If the trial version expires after 30 days, the student edition
(or something similar) is cheap cheap cheap. I don't have thousands
of dollars to spend on this stuff.

As I say, I have a bunch of stuff sitting here, and I'm not even
entirely sure which of it is trial software and which isn't -- I don't
want to install all this stuff, without knowing which items I really
need. Anyway, the criteria are listed above. The options are:

(A) The WaveFormer Lite, that came with the book.
(B) A whole slew of programs from XiLinx that came with another book.
The programs include: Project Navigator, Chip Viewer, Constraints
Editor, CORE Generator System, Design Manager, Floorplanner, FPGA
Editor, HDL Bencher, iMPACT, LogiBLOX, PROM File Formatter, StateCAD,
Timing Analyzer, XPower. This all sounds like ASIC and FPGA design
stuff to me, rather than basic Verilog HDL stuff, but I could be
wrong.
(C) I have a CD called Electronics Workbench/MultiSim that came with
one of the textbooks I purchased.
(D) I have another CD called Schematic Capture Using MicroSim PSpice,
that came with another textbook. For both (C) and (D), I have no idea
if these are trial versions, or cripple-ware, or what.
(E) Finally, with a book called Fundamentals Of Electronic Circuits,
the included CD has software called MultiSim 2001 Textbook Edition.
(Which may be the same stuff as on the CD listed in (C) above.

So, can anyone -- perhaps a student or teacher who has worked with
these CDs, and this software -- tell me both which of this software is
relevant for my current studies; and which also either comes in
adequately functional form on the CDs that came with the book (like, I
can Save the files I create), or can be purchased (at least at the
student level) at very, very modest prices?

Also, if there is yet another option I've missed -- perhaps some Open
Source tool -- please let me know.

While you are at it, and if you really have time to burn, you might
let me know -- for future reference -- what some of these other
programs are for, even if not relevant for my immediate needs.

Thanks in advance for all replies.

Steve O.


"Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com
 
Steven O. wrote:

Hi, all. I'm a tech writer, and recently decided to learn more about
electronics. Along the way I've picked up four or five textbooks,
most of which came with various software -- some student versions,
some trial versions, etc.

I finally signed up for an actual course on introductory Digital
Design, and we are using a book Digital Design by Morris Mano. The
book comes with software from SynaptiCAD, but most of the stuff only
runs in seriously crippled mode (no Saving, for instance); you can
get a 30-day trial license, but after that you have to pay huge sums
of money to run the software. (I went to their Web site, and could
not find personal or student versions for most of this stuff, with one
exception:)

It does come with one "lite" version that seems to be operational, a
program called WaveFormer Lite. (The other, cripple-ware programs are
called VeriLogger Pro, Timing Diagrammer Pro, and DataSheet Pro.)

Now -- and I'm working my way up to my question -- the professor
already told us that we don't need to use any of the software for the
class. (And, apparently, he plans to offer no instruction on how to
use the software.) But it seems to me it might help me to use some
CAD software, both to better understand the material, and to work more
effectively with the EEs that I deal with on the job (which is the
real, main goal of this exercise).

So, the question is, of all the various software I've accumulated,
which of this stuff should I try to learn? There's a lot of software,
and I have no idea which of it is really applicable for my current
needs. The criteria, at least for now, are:

1. Is relevant for learning the basics of digital design. (Some
major chapters in the book: Combinational Logic, Synchronous
Sequential Logic, Registers and Counters, Memory and Programmable
Logic, Register Transfer Level, Asynchronous Sequential Logic). The
back cover indicates that the book uses Verilog HDL.

2. The software can be a limited, student version -- perhaps it won't
let me build a commercial-scale application -- but it has to let me
build applications large enough for typical student purposes, and to
save them.

3. If the trial version expires after 30 days, the student edition
(or something similar) is cheap cheap cheap. I don't have thousands
of dollars to spend on this stuff.

As I say, I have a bunch of stuff sitting here, and I'm not even
entirely sure which of it is trial software and which isn't -- I don't
want to install all this stuff, without knowing which items I really
need. Anyway, the criteria are listed above. The options are:

(A) The WaveFormer Lite, that came with the book.
(B) A whole slew of programs from XiLinx that came with another book.
The programs include: Project Navigator, Chip Viewer, Constraints
Editor, CORE Generator System, Design Manager, Floorplanner, FPGA
Editor, HDL Bencher, iMPACT, LogiBLOX, PROM File Formatter, StateCAD,
Timing Analyzer, XPower. This all sounds like ASIC and FPGA design
stuff to me, rather than basic Verilog HDL stuff, but I could be
wrong.
(C) I have a CD called Electronics Workbench/MultiSim that came with
one of the textbooks I purchased.
(D) I have another CD called Schematic Capture Using MicroSim PSpice,
that came with another textbook. For both (C) and (D), I have no idea
if these are trial versions, or cripple-ware, or what.
(E) Finally, with a book called Fundamentals Of Electronic Circuits,
the included CD has software called MultiSim 2001 Textbook Edition.
(Which may be the same stuff as on the CD listed in (C) above.

So, can anyone -- perhaps a student or teacher who has worked with
these CDs, and this software -- tell me both which of this software is
relevant for my current studies; and which also either comes in
adequately functional form on the CDs that came with the book (like, I
can Save the files I create), or can be purchased (at least at the
student level) at very, very modest prices?

Also, if there is yet another option I've missed -- perhaps some Open
Source tool -- please let me know.

While you are at it, and if you really have time to burn, you might
let me know -- for future reference -- what some of these other
programs are for, even if not relevant for my immediate needs.

Thanks in advance for all replies.

Steve O.


"Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com
The Xilinx tools are good, they're a whole design suite. I'd download
the latest copy from Xilinx's website -- you'll also get a copy of
Modelsim, which you can use for doing simulations on your computer.

Linear Technology has LT spice available for free from their website.
I've only used it a bit, but it seems to be very good (better for what I
do than anything else I've used). They're using it to sell their chips,
of course, so the libraries are light on other parts.

But in the end I agree with your professor. You want to learn the
theory, not the tools. If you feel a need to get anything, get a
protoboard kit from rat shack and some 74HCxx logic and do some hands-on
work. That'll get you way more than software tools.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
 
Steven O. wrote:
Hi, all. I'm a tech writer, and recently decided to learn more about
electronics. Along the way I've picked up four or five textbooks,
most of which came with various software -- some student versions,
some trial versions, etc.

I finally signed up for an actual course on introductory Digital
Design, and we are using a book Digital Design by Morris Mano. The
book comes with software from SynaptiCAD, but most of the stuff only
runs in seriously crippled mode (no Saving, for instance);
Mano is probably the most widely used textbook at the introductory
level. Use the *simplified* cripple-ware that came with the book to work
the exercises and it will be good enough. Anything more specialized will
require that you spend more time struggling with bug-ridden and complex
CAD than with the essential course material itself- and that would be
STUPID. Most competent people work through the entirety of Mano in a
week's time anyway.
 
Mano is probably the most widely used textbook at the introductory
level. Use the *simplified* cripple-ware that came with the book to work
the exercises and it will be good enough. Anything more specialized will
Okay, fair enough. But again, I want to focus my time effectively.
Of the various programs that came with the book, is there just one
that primarily would relate to the content? The options are
WaveFormer, VeriLogger, Timing Diagrammer, and DataSheet. In other
words, which one should I try to learn, or at least learn first?

Also, did Synapticad ever sell student versions of these programs,
perhaps in earlier releases, and if so, are they available someplace
for sale? Again, it would be nice to save files I create for
practise.

Most competent people work through the entirety of Mano in a
week's time anyway.
Well, this is a community college class, so we're taking it a bit
slower....

Thanks again.

Steve O.

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:28:55 GMT, Fred Bloggs <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:
Steven O. wrote:
Hi, all. I'm a tech writer, and recently decided to learn more about
electronics. Along the way I've picked up four or five textbooks,
most of which came with various software -- some student versions,
some trial versions, etc.

I finally signed up for an actual course on introductory Digital
Design, and we are using a book Digital Design by Morris Mano. The
book comes with software from SynaptiCAD, but most of the stuff only
runs in seriously crippled mode (no Saving, for instance);

Mano is probably the most widely used textbook at the introductory
level. Use the *simplified* cripple-ware that came with the book to work
the exercises and it will be good enough. Anything more specialized will
require that you spend more time struggling with bug-ridden and complex
CAD than with the essential course material itself- and that would be
STUPID. Most competent people work through the entirety of Mano in a
week's time anyway.

"Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com
 
Steven O. <null@null.com> wrote in message news:<nssck09b7k8kl01k2sgr6hbdf91f6sr259@4ax.com>...
Hi, all. I'm a tech writer, and recently decided to learn more about
electronics. Along the way I've picked up four or five textbooks,
most of which came with various software -- some student versions,
some trial versions, etc.

I finally signed up for an actual course on introductory Digital
Design, and we are using a book Digital Design by Morris Mano. The
book comes with software from SynaptiCAD, but most of the stuff only
runs in seriously crippled mode (no Saving, for instance); you can
get a 30-day trial license, but after that you have to pay huge sums
of money to run the software. (I went to their Web site, and could
not find personal or student versions for most of this stuff, with one
exception:)

It does come with one "lite" version that seems to be operational, a
program called WaveFormer Lite. (The other, cripple-ware programs are
called VeriLogger Pro, Timing Diagrammer Pro, and DataSheet Pro.)

Now -- and I'm working my way up to my question -- the professor
already told us that we don't need to use any of the software for the
class. (And, apparently, he plans to offer no instruction on how to
use the software.) But it seems to me it might help me to use some
CAD software, both to better understand the material, and to work more
effectively with the EEs that I deal with on the job (which is the
real, main goal of this exercise).

So, the question is, of all the various software I've accumulated,
which of this stuff should I try to learn? There's a lot of software,
and I have no idea which of it is really applicable for my current
needs. The criteria, at least for now, are:

1. Is relevant for learning the basics of digital design. (Some
major chapters in the book: Combinational Logic, Synchronous
Sequential Logic, Registers and Counters, Memory and Programmable
Logic, Register Transfer Level, Asynchronous Sequential Logic). The
back cover indicates that the book uses Verilog HDL.

2. The software can be a limited, student version -- perhaps it won't
let me build a commercial-scale application -- but it has to let me
build applications large enough for typical student purposes, and to
save them.

3. If the trial version expires after 30 days, the student edition
(or something similar) is cheap cheap cheap. I don't have thousands
of dollars to spend on this stuff.

As I say, I have a bunch of stuff sitting here, and I'm not even
entirely sure which of it is trial software and which isn't -- I don't
want to install all this stuff, without knowing which items I really
need. Anyway, the criteria are listed above. The options are:

(A) The WaveFormer Lite, that came with the book.
(B) A whole slew of programs from XiLinx that came with another book.
The programs include: Project Navigator, Chip Viewer, Constraints
Editor, CORE Generator System, Design Manager, Floorplanner, FPGA
Editor, HDL Bencher, iMPACT, LogiBLOX, PROM File Formatter, StateCAD,
Timing Analyzer, XPower. This all sounds like ASIC and FPGA design
stuff to me, rather than basic Verilog HDL stuff, but I could be
wrong.
(C) I have a CD called Electronics Workbench/MultiSim that came with
one of the textbooks I purchased.
(D) I have another CD called Schematic Capture Using MicroSim PSpice,
that came with another textbook. For both (C) and (D), I have no idea
if these are trial versions, or cripple-ware, or what.
(E) Finally, with a book called Fundamentals Of Electronic Circuits,
the included CD has software called MultiSim 2001 Textbook Edition.
(Which may be the same stuff as on the CD listed in (C) above.

So, can anyone -- perhaps a student or teacher who has worked with
these CDs, and this software -- tell me both which of this software is
relevant for my current studies; and which also either comes in
adequately functional form on the CDs that came with the book (like, I
can Save the files I create), or can be purchased (at least at the
student level) at very, very modest prices?

Also, if there is yet another option I've missed -- perhaps some Open
Source tool -- please let me know.

While you are at it, and if you really have time to burn, you might
let me know -- for future reference -- what some of these other
programs are for, even if not relevant for my immediate needs.

Thanks in advance for all replies.

Steve O.
The best "software" out of that lot for playing around with basic
digital design is Electronics Workbench.
Forget anything that involves FPGAs and their associated VHDL/Verilog
tools, they are too advanced for what you want.

I don't know what your course is teaching but any introductory digital
design generally means your basic digital building blocks like logic
gates, counters, shift registers, flip flops, and theory like boolean
algebra, Karnaugh Maps etc.
Simulators like Electronics Workbench will allow you to build virtual
digital circuits and then probe them with virtual logic probes,
oscilloscopes, and LED displays. This is pretty handy and is *exactly*
what you want in a digital simulator or leanring tool. The others you
mentioned don't really work like this, they are more complicated, will
confuse you to death and won't teach you anything.
The tradiational (and best in many peoples opinion) way to learn
digital electronics is to get 74HCxxx series logic chips, a breadboard
and a logic probe and start building circuits. You can't beat hands on
work like this.
Be careful with using software to learn hardware, you want to spend as
little time learning the software and maximum possible time learning
how the hardware actually works. If your software takes you more than
a few minutes to figure out how to wire up a NAND gate and turn on a
LED then uninstall it quick smart.

Dave :)
 
altzone@gmail.com (David L. Jones) wrote:

If your software takes you more than
a few minutes to figure out how to wire up a NAND gate and turn on a
LED then uninstall it quick smart.
Hmm, maybe I can add that to my excuses for still not having mastered
PICs! I reckon it was several *hours* before I got my first flasing
LED...

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 

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