J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
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George Herold
Guest
On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 3:27:02 PM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Sounds like a little Golay Cell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golay_cell
George H.
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
Sounds like a little Golay Cell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golay_cell
George H.
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:26:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
It will be interesting to make an imaging array of these things. Will
all the resonators talk to one another, like several pendulums on a
table?
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
<pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
It will be interesting to make an imaging array of these things. Will
all the resonators talk to one another, like several pendulums on a
table?
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
P
Phil Hobbs
Guest
On 5/16/19 4:25 PM, John Larkin wrote:
Perhaps you could make an array of N**2 oscillators of sufficiently
different frequency that they wouldn't lock together, and then tile the
arrays. That way you wouldn't get nearest-neighbour locking. It'll
obviously need a pixel-by-pixel calibration.
Alternatively they could drive all of them at one frequency and watch
the phase of the response of each pixel.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:26:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
It will be interesting to make an imaging array of these things. Will
all the resonators talk to one another, like several pendulums on a
table?
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
Perhaps you could make an array of N**2 oscillators of sufficiently
different frequency that they wouldn't lock together, and then tile the
arrays. That way you wouldn't get nearest-neighbour locking. It'll
obviously need a pixel-by-pixel calibration.
Alternatively they could drive all of them at one frequency and watch
the phase of the response of each pixel.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Thu, 16 May 2019 16:33:24 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
The existing FLIR type uncooled sensors need individual pixel cal.
Mine flips down a shutter about once a minute, for a few seconds, to
do that. They probably hide bad pixels too.
That's good. Blast them all together to get them going, then watch
them ring down. It will still be interesting to do that.
It would be great to have a cheap hi-res thermal imager.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 5/16/19 4:25 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:26:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
It will be interesting to make an imaging array of these things. Will
all the resonators talk to one another, like several pendulums on a
table?
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
Perhaps you could make an array of N**2 oscillators of sufficiently
different frequency that they wouldn't lock together, and then tile the
arrays. That way you wouldn't get nearest-neighbour locking. It'll
obviously need a pixel-by-pixel calibration.
The existing FLIR type uncooled sensors need individual pixel cal.
Mine flips down a shutter about once a minute, for a few seconds, to
do that. They probably hide bad pixels too.
Alternatively they could drive all of them at one frequency and watch
the phase of the response of each pixel.
That's good. Blast them all together to get them going, then watch
them ring down. It will still be interesting to do that.
It would be great to have a cheap hi-res thermal imager.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
W
whit3rd
Guest
On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 1:25:48 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
A vidicon tube addresses photoconductors with comparable numbers
of elements, so maybe you could print a wafer with all the oscillators you need,
and power them, then look at one-at-a-time by projecting an e-beam to
bias (one at a time) the output buffers to a single line. Multiplexing
is too much (CCD is a shift register, not a mux, scheme). Scanning, though,
is an old reliable technology.
It'd be too much, too, to put an FM decoder per pixel, driving one LED per pixel.
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:26:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
It will be interesting to make an imaging array of these things. Will
all the resonators talk to one another, like several pendulums on a
table?
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
A vidicon tube addresses photoconductors with comparable numbers
of elements, so maybe you could print a wafer with all the oscillators you need,
and power them, then look at one-at-a-time by projecting an e-beam to
bias (one at a time) the output buffers to a single line. Multiplexing
is too much (CCD is a shift register, not a mux, scheme). Scanning, though,
is an old reliable technology.
It'd be too much, too, to put an FM decoder per pixel, driving one LED per pixel.
M
Mike Coon
Guest
In article <rjhrde5sri8182usea7dv2vr51n6s16puh@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com says...
Isn't, or wasn't, there a projector that used an array of mirror
elements to reflect a light beam and generate images? No doubt
superceded by LED arrays...
Mike.
jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com says...
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
Isn't, or wasn't, there a projector that used an array of mirror
elements to reflect a light beam and generate images? No doubt
superceded by LED arrays...
Mike.
R
Rick C
Guest
On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 6:28:58 PM UTC-4, Mike Coon wrote:
Yes, TI made that called... I forget, some three letter abbreviation. Google says it was DLP. It was cheaper for the larger size I believe, but poorer picture and larger cabinet. The apparatus was in the bottom and projected upward if I remember, so it was still nearly a foot thick.
--
Rick C.
- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
In article <rjhrde5sri8182usea7dv2vr51n6s16puh@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com says...
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
Isn't, or wasn't, there a projector that used an array of mirror
elements to reflect a light beam and generate images? No doubt
superceded by LED arrays...
Yes, TI made that called... I forget, some three letter abbreviation. Google says it was DLP. It was cheaper for the larger size I believe, but poorer picture and larger cabinet. The apparatus was in the bottom and projected upward if I remember, so it was still nearly a foot thick.
--
Rick C.
- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
M
MikeP
Guest
On Thu, 16 May 2019 23:28:54 +0100, Mike Coon wrote:
DLP projectors work this way. They're very common. People have even
done homebrew stuff with the "micromirror" arrays.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Light_Processing
Fun fact: If you get a DLP projector securely mounted and accurately
focused on a nice flat screen, you can walk up to it and look closely,
and see not only the pixels, but the focused images of the microscopic
hinges that they swivel on.
Mike
Isn't, or wasn't, there a projector that used an array of mirror
elements to reflect a light beam and generate images?
DLP projectors work this way. They're very common. People have even
done homebrew stuff with the "micromirror" arrays.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Light_Processing
Fun fact: If you get a DLP projector securely mounted and accurately
focused on a nice flat screen, you can walk up to it and look closely,
and see not only the pixels, but the focused images of the microscopic
hinges that they swivel on.
Mike
P
Phil Hobbs
Guest
On 5/16/19 6:28 PM, Mike Coon wrote:
Sure, the TI digital micromirror device (DMD) arrays. You can get them
from Digikey. You can do a lot of interesting things with them.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
In article <rjhrde5sri8182usea7dv2vr51n6s16puh@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com says...
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
Isn't, or wasn't, there a projector that used an array of mirror
elements to reflect a light beam and generate images? No doubt
superceded by LED arrays...
Mike.
Sure, the TI digital micromirror device (DMD) arrays. You can get them
from Digikey. You can do a lot of interesting things with them.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (Thu, 16 May 2019 16:33:24 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
<1uedncQjV4yJVEDBnZ2dnUU7-f_NnZ2d@supernews.com>:
Cool!
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
<1uedncQjV4yJVEDBnZ2dnUU7-f_NnZ2d@supernews.com>:
On 5/16/19 4:25 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:26:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
It will be interesting to make an imaging array of these things. Will
all the resonators talk to one another, like several pendulums on a
table?
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
Perhaps you could make an array of N**2 oscillators of sufficiently
different frequency that they wouldn't lock together, and then tile the
arrays. That way you wouldn't get nearest-neighbour locking. It'll
obviously need a pixel-by-pixel calibration.
Alternatively they could drive all of them at one frequency and watch
the phase of the response of each pixel.
Cool!
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (Thu, 16 May 2019 15:54:17 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<bde6a88d-8b9a-4836-b972-1167a20444d8@googlegroups.com>:
DLP projectors are common,
some use those to make PCBs:
https://hackaday.com/2016/01/07/make-pcbs-with-dlp-omg/
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
<bde6a88d-8b9a-4836-b972-1167a20444d8@googlegroups.com>:
On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 6:28:58 PM UTC-4, Mike Coon wrote:
In article <rjhrde5sri8182usea7dv2vr51n6s16puh@4ax.com>,
jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com says...
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
Isn't, or wasn't, there a projector that used an array of mirror
elements to reflect a light beam and generate images? No doubt
superceded by LED arrays...
Yes, TI made that called... I forget, some three letter abbreviation. Google
says it was DLP. It was cheaper for the larger size I believe, but poorer
picture and larger cabinet. The apparatus was in the bottom and projected
upward if I remember, so it was still nearly a foot thick.
DLP projectors are common,
some use those to make PCBs:
https://hackaday.com/2016/01/07/make-pcbs-with-dlp-omg/
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (Thu, 16 May 2019 13:08:30 -0700 (PDT)) it happened George
Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in
<5bf5afa6-0a7a-4ca6-8021-5b47d555ae2e@googlegroups.com>:
Yes, but this is different,
It uses MEMS frequency change.
I have posted in relation to my test with the MPU6050 as inertial navigation
accelerometer and its extreme sensitivity to temperature variations
I find it cute how they now use that temperature sensitivity for the good
by simply coating it with NiCr.
Can be made microscopic small, lots of bolometers per surface area,
maybe a sort of camera is possible for those frequencies,
Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in
<5bf5afa6-0a7a-4ca6-8021-5b47d555ae2e@googlegroups.com>:
On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 3:27:02 PM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
Sounds like a little Golay Cell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golay_cell
George H.
Yes, but this is different,
It uses MEMS frequency change.
I have posted in relation to my test with the MPU6050 as inertial navigation
accelerometer and its extreme sensitivity to temperature variations
I find it cute how they now use that temperature sensitivity for the good
by simply coating it with NiCr.
Can be made microscopic small, lots of bolometers per surface area,
maybe a sort of camera is possible for those frequencies,
J
Jan Panteltje
Guest
On a sunny day (Thu, 16 May 2019 13:25:35 -0700) it happened John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in
<rjhrde5sri8182usea7dv2vr51n6s16puh@4ax.com>:
Yes, good point, resonance!
In series like a musical composition?
>
<jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in
<rjhrde5sri8182usea7dv2vr51n6s16puh@4ax.com>:
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:26:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
It will be interesting to make an imaging array of these things. Will
all the resonators talk to one another, like several pendulums on a
table?
Yes, good point, resonance!
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
In series like a musical composition?
>
N
nuny@bid.nes
Guest
On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 1:25:48 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
What's the response time? If it's faster than the expected rate of change of temperature all over an image, just have one detector and scan an image over it.
Mark L. Fergerson
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:26:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
It will be interesting to make an imaging array of these things. Will
all the resonators talk to one another, like several pendulums on a
table?
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
What's the response time? If it's faster than the expected rate of change of temperature all over an image, just have one detector and scan an image over it.
Mark L. Fergerson
P
Phil Hobbs
Guest
On 5/16/19 11:37 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
There's a huge SNR hit from doing that.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 1:25:48 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:26:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
It will be interesting to make an imaging array of these things. Will
all the resonators talk to one another, like several pendulums on a
table?
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
What's the response time? If it's faster than the expected rate of change of temperature all over an image, just have one detector and scan an image over it.
Mark L. Fergerson
There's a huge SNR hit from doing that.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
J
Jeroen Belleman
Guest
nuny@bid.nes wrote:
Thermal time constant is about 55us, they say.
The article is about a GaAs beam, about 100um long and
25um wide, suspended at both ends. The mechanical resonance
frequency is about 500kHz. A piezo-electric capacitor
overlaying each end serves to inject or sense mechanical
vibrations. The Q factor is about 6k in vacuum.
The resonance frequency varies with the beam temperature.
They characterize the sensitivity by passing a current
through a NiCr layer deposited on the centre of the beam.
The change of frequency is about -40kHz with 1mW dissipated
in the NiCr layer.
The NiCr also serves as the absorbing target for THz
radiation. The minimum detectable THz power is said to
be about 200pW.
Interesting gadget.
Jeroen Belleman
On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 1:25:48 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:26:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
It will be interesting to make an imaging array of these things.
Will all the resonators talk to one another, like several
pendulums on a table?
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
What's the response time? If it's faster than the expected rate of
change of temperature all over an image, just have one detector
and scan an image over it.
Mark L. Fergerson
Thermal time constant is about 55us, they say.
The article is about a GaAs beam, about 100um long and
25um wide, suspended at both ends. The mechanical resonance
frequency is about 500kHz. A piezo-electric capacitor
overlaying each end serves to inject or sense mechanical
vibrations. The Q factor is about 6k in vacuum.
The resonance frequency varies with the beam temperature.
They characterize the sensitivity by passing a current
through a NiCr layer deposited on the centre of the beam.
The change of frequency is about -40kHz with 1mW dissipated
in the NiCr layer.
The NiCr also serves as the absorbing target for THz
radiation. The minimum detectable THz power is said to
be about 200pW.
Interesting gadget.
Jeroen Belleman
M
MikeP
Guest
On Thu, 16 May 2019 13:25:35 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
Crazy idea: put them in a vacuum and scan an electron beam across them.
Kind of like this: http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/glassadc.html
Mike
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
Crazy idea: put them in a vacuum and scan an electron beam across them.
Kind of like this: http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/glassadc.html
Mike
J
John Larkin
Guest
On Fri, 17 May 2019 12:39:51 -0000 (UTC), MikeP
<mjp993@googlemail.com> wrote:
Early digital telephone systems use a vacuum tube companding ADC, with
an electron sheet hitting a grey-code target.
Tek sold a scan-conversion-tube digital oscilloscope that had 7 GHz
single-shot bandwidth. I think Greenfield in France still sells them.
I have a tube!
I think the Whirlwind computer at MIT used a CRT RAM.
One of the favorite things in my life is the 50 GHz Tek 11802 sampling
scope on my bench. It's the last thing in our place that uses a
monochrome CRT.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
lunatic fringe electronics
<mjp993@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2019 13:25:35 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
Crazy idea: put them in a vacuum and scan an electron beam across them.
Kind of like this: http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/glassadc.html
Mike
Early digital telephone systems use a vacuum tube companding ADC, with
an electron sheet hitting a grey-code target.
Tek sold a scan-conversion-tube digital oscilloscope that had 7 GHz
single-shot bandwidth. I think Greenfield in France still sells them.
I have a tube!
I think the Whirlwind computer at MIT used a CRT RAM.
One of the favorite things in my life is the 50 GHz Tek 11802 sampling
scope on my bench. It's the last thing in our place that uses a
monochrome CRT.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
lunatic fringe electronics
R
Rick C
Guest
On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 4:34:24 AM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
The eye is a very good filter. Besides, you only have to be "good enough". This is engineering after all. Either it meets the requirements or it doesn't.
--
Rick C.
+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
On 5/16/19 11:37 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 1:25:48 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2019 19:26:30 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
new thermomechanical terahertz detector:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190516103718.htm
It will be interesting to make an imaging array of these things. Will
all the resonators talk to one another, like several pendulums on a
table?
How does one excite and read out, say, 100,000 micro-mechanical
oscillators?
What's the response time? If it's faster than the expected rate of change of temperature all over an image, just have one detector and scan an image over it.
Mark L. Fergerson
There's a huge SNR hit from doing that.
The eye is a very good filter. Besides, you only have to be "good enough". This is engineering after all. Either it meets the requirements or it doesn't.
--
Rick C.
+ Get 5,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209