New SETI technique filters out Earth interference to focus on extraterrestrial signals only...

[Jan Panteltje]

New SETI technique filters out Earth interference to focus on extraterrestrial signals only
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717115851.htm

 

[legg]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 04:33:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

New SETI technique filters out Earth interference to focus on extraterrestrial signals only
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717115851.htm

An additional filter method.

RL

 

[Mike Monett VE3BTI]

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 04:33:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:

New SETI technique filters out Earth interference to focus on
extraterrestrial signals only
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717115851.htm

An additional filter method.

RL

SETI is a hopeless waste of time. Considering the age of the universe, the
length of time required to produce a solar system, the small number of
habitable planets, the length of time it takes for intelligent life to
evolve, the brief time that radio signals are generated, the short distance
they propogate through interstellar space, then any chance of receiving
signals from another civilization is zero.

Any other civilization will be millions of years more advanced than ours,
or millions of years younger. In the first case, they won\'t be using radio
to communicate, or they are unable to. In either case, SETI is useless.

Better to use the resources required by SETI to work on real problems, such
as Dark Energy, Dark Matter, Fast Radio Bursts (FRBs), or a host of other
unsolved problems.



--
MRM

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 12:33:35 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

New SETI technique filters out Earth interference to focus on extraterrestrial signals only
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717115851.htm

Good. They can stat broadcasting an S.O.S. because their planet is burning up.

 

[a a]

On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 06:33:35 UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote:

New SETI technique filters out Earth interference to focus on extraterrestrial signals only
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717115851.htm

SETI is an old delusional fake like UFO
to keep idiots busy

 

[a a]

>

Yet one more #veryStupidByLowIQaa post.

 

[legg]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 17:33:02 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett VE3BTI
<spamme@not.com> wrote:

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 04:33:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:

New SETI technique filters out Earth interference to focus on
extraterrestrial signals only
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717115851.htm

An additional filter method.

RL

SETI is a hopeless waste of time. Considering the age of the universe, the
length of time required to produce a solar system, the small number of
habitable planets, the length of time it takes for intelligent life to
evolve, the brief time that radio signals are generated, the short distance
they propogate through interstellar space, then any chance of receiving
signals from another civilization is zero.

Any other civilization will be millions of years more advanced than ours,
or millions of years younger. In the first case, they won\'t be using radio
to communicate, or they are unable to. In either case, SETI is useless.

Better to use the resources required by SETI to work on real problems, such
as Dark Energy, Dark Matter, Fast Radio Bursts (FRBs), or a host of other
unsolved problems.

Resources?

I think you\'ll find that recent distributed computing effort are
more oriented towards modelling climate change or researching cancer..

RL

 

[a a]

On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 21:52:50 UTC+2, legg wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 17:33:02 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett VE3BTI
spa...@not.com> wrote:

legg <le...@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 04:33:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid
wrote:

New SETI technique filters out Earth interference to focus on
extraterrestrial signals only
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717115851.htm

An additional filter method.

RL

SETI is a hopeless waste of time. Considering the age of the universe, the
length of time required to produce a solar system, the small number of
habitable planets, the length of time it takes for intelligent life to
evolve, the brief time that radio signals are generated, the short distance
they propogate through interstellar space, then any chance of receiving
signals from another civilization is zero.

Any other civilization will be millions of years more advanced than ours,
or millions of years younger. In the first case, they won\'t be using radio
to communicate, or they are unable to. In either case, SETI is useless.

Better to use the resources required by SETI to work on real problems, such
as Dark Energy, Dark Matter, Fast Radio Bursts (FRBs), or a host of other
unsolved problems.
Resources?

I think you\'ll find that recent distributed computing effort are
more oriented towards modelling climate change or researching cancer..

RL
Climate Changes is an ancient tautology by Heraclitus

everything flows

Panta rhei

Read R&D papers by 2021 Water Cycle Nobelist from Japan

Water vapor is the only greenhouse gas, which counts


Cancer researching is another fake - no success story for the last 50 years
since humans get exposed to highly cancerogenic microwaves generated by GSM, 3G, 4G, 5G transmitters

 

[a a]

>

Darius the Dumb has posted yet one more #veryStupidByLowIQaa article.

 

[Mike Monett VE3BTI]

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Better to use the resources required by SETI to work on real problems,
such as Dark Energy, Dark Matter, Fast Radio Bursts (FRBs), or a host of
other unsolved problems.

Resources?

I think you\'ll find that recent distributed computing effort are
more oriented towards modelling climate change or researching cancer..

RL

SETI uses lots of antennas and related hardware. These can be redirected to
research Dark Energy, Dark Matter, Fast Radio Bursts (FRBs), Long Baseline
Interferometry and many other problems.

I am not sure about the computation ability of SETI, but I don\'t think it is
suitable for modelling climate change or researching cancer. It is obviously
intended for peering into outer space.



--
MRM

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Mike Monett VE3BTI <spamme@not.com> wrote:

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 04:33:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:

New SETI technique filters out Earth interference to focus on
extraterrestrial signals only
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717115851.htm

An additional filter method.

RL

SETI is a hopeless waste of time. Considering the age of the universe, the
length of time required to produce a solar system, the small number of
habitable planets, the length of time it takes for intelligent life to
evolve, the brief time that radio signals are generated, the short distance
they propogate through interstellar space, then any chance of receiving
signals from another civilization is zero.

Any other civilization will be millions of years more advanced than ours,
or millions of years younger. In the first case, they won\'t be using radio
to communicate, or they are unable to. In either case, SETI is useless.

Better to use the resources required by SETI to work on real problems, such
as Dark Energy, Dark Matter, Fast Radio Bursts (FRBs), or a host of other
unsolved problems.

They’re all cultural activities with zero technological impact, so why
worry about it?

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

 

[Mike Monett VE3BTI]

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Theyƒ Tre all cultural activities with zero technological impact, so why
worry about it?

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

Curiosity is a human trait. Without it, we would have stopped with fire.

With all your patents, you should be the first to recognize this.



--
MRM

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Mike Monett VE3BTI <spamme@not.com> wrote:

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Theyâ Tre all cultural activities with zero technological impact, so why
worry about it?



Curiosity is a human trait. Without it, we would have stopped with fire.

Of course. My point is precisely that—it’s all a cultural activity, so
there’s no reason to favor one of the activities listed over the others. If
the people who are paying are happy, terrific.

High-energy physics is way too expensive for whatever cultural enjoyment it
still brings at this late date. SETI is a lot cheaper.

(Besides, it’s Paul Horowitz’s specialty, and he’s a great guy.)


--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC /
Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 8:17:36 AM UTC+10, a a wrote:

On Tuesday, 18 July 2023 at 21:52:50 UTC+2, legg wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 17:33:02 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett VE3BTI <spa...@not.com> wrote:
legg <le...@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 04:33:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid

<snip>

> > >SETI is a hopeless waste of time. Considering the age of the universe, the length of time required to produce a solar system.

We really only know how long it took to produce this solar system

> > > the small number of habitable planets,

We only know one habitable planet, and all we know it that it is habitable by us, at the moment

> > > The e length of time it takes for intelligent life to evolve,

We think we represent intelligent life, and we know how long we took to evolve. There may be other options.

> > > the brief time that radio signals are generated,

We only know how long we\'ve been generating them.

> > > the short distance they propagate through interstellar space, then any chance of receiving signals from another civilization is zero.

Small, perhaps, but not zero.

Any other civilization will be millions of years more advanced than ours,
or millions of years younger. In the first case, they won\'t be using radio
to communicate, or they are unable to. In either case, SETI is useless..

A confident assertion about a subject of which we are entirely ignorant.

> > >Better to use the resources required by SETI to work on real problems, such as Dark Energy, Dark Matter, Fast Radio Bursts (FRBs), or a host of other unsolved problems.

Dark Matter and Dark Energy are both convenient hypotheses. They don\'t count as \"real problems\" yet. The real problem is explaining what we can see with our telescopes.

Resources?

I think you\'ll find that recent distributed computing effort are more oriented towards modelling climate change or researching cancer..

Climate Changes is an ancient tautology by Heraclitus

everything flows Panta rhei

The problem with climate change is that things are changing faster - and more - than they used to. The rate of change is worth worrying about.

Read R&D papers by 2021 Water Cycle Nobelist from Japan

Water vapor is the only greenhouse gas, which counts

Wrong.

Cancer researching is another fake - no success story for the last 50 years
since humans get exposed to highly cancinogenic microwaves generated by GSM, 3G, 4G, 5G transmitters

Cis-platinum cures testicular cancer, and that was introduced less than 50 years ago. There have been other successes.
Microwaves aren\'t mutagens despite all the lunatic claims by the tinfoil hat brigade.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34388002/

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Martin Brown]

On 18/07/2023 18:33, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 04:33:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
wrote:

New SETI technique filters out Earth interference to focus on
extraterrestrial signals only
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230717115851.htm

An additional filter method.

RL

SETI is a hopeless waste of time. Considering the age of the universe, the
length of time required to produce a solar system, the small number of
habitable planets, the length of time it takes for intelligent life to
evolve, the brief time that radio signals are generated, the short distance
they propogate through interstellar space, then any chance of receiving
signals from another civilization is zero.

That is too pessimistic. Radio signals propagate pretty well in space as
do lasers and both can be beamed very well. Anyone that sees Earth will
probably notice radar ranging and imaging of asteroids by Arecebo.

If they get really lucky after years of watching tedious monochrome
1950\'s sitcoms which will reach them first. I largely agree that SETI is
pretty much a waste of time but there is no harm in screening radio
astronomy data for any evidence of such transmissions. More often than
not such transient signals that are real turn out to be a new and novel
previously unseen astrophysical phenomena that a new instrument is
particularly suited for seeing (as happened with pulsars). The chart
recording was initially marked LGM when they realised that it* transited
4 minutes earlier every day and so was in the sky not on the ground.

* a regular pulsing signal which ultimately turned out to be pulsars
amongst the most accurate clocks known to us.

Any other civilization will be millions of years more advanced than ours,
or millions of years younger. In the first case, they won\'t be using radio
to communicate, or they are unable to. In either case, SETI is useless.

Communication is pretty hopeless unless they happen to be within a few
tens of light years but eavesdropping is just about possible. Our sun
will look distinctly non-thermal in the radio bands now to anyone within
about 10 light years with the same kit as we have or better.

Civilisations are only radio bright in an obvious way for about a
century at most if we are any guide. Once spread spectrum kit and fibre
optics get deployed the leakage of strong CW signals stops completely.

Better to use the resources required by SETI to work on real problems, such
as Dark Energy, Dark Matter, Fast Radio Bursts (FRBs), or a host of other
unsolved problems.

It is a low probability of success but high consequence experiment.
Largely it is done on down time of instruments that might otherwise be
idle. A few specific instruments have been built for SETI but most of it
is scanning existing radio astronomical data for \"signals\". Much of that
unwanted interference is recognisably reflections off commercial aircraft.

The radio observations were much cleaner just after 9/11 and during
lockdown when commercial aircraft flights were very rare.

UK Astronomer Royal Professor Martin Rees has an interesting take on the
SETI conundrum. He thinks if we meet ET they will be a robotic probe.

https://mindmatters.ai/2021/11/astronomer-et-is-more-likely-to-be-ai-than-a-to-be-a-life-form/

Though Fermi\'s paradox still looms large - why aren\'t they here yet?

--
Martin Brown

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:01:53 +0100) it happened Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <u9859i$229i0$1@dont-email.me>:

https://mindmatters.ai/2021/11/astronomer-et-is-more-likely-to-be-ai-than-a-to-be-a-life-form/

Though Fermi\'s paradox still looms large - why aren\'t they here yet?

Well, the Intergalactic Travel Agency has warned against visiting Planet Earth as it is infested with human beings
and those are considered extremely dangerous.

Our modern TV transmissions look very much like white noise...
But there is still Joerg doing Morse, but unfortunately much of that is reflected down by the atmosphere.

Seti has put data on the web (several GB) for people to have a go at finding anything alien.

You can participate:
https://breakthroughinitiatives.org/opendatasearch


Come to think of that, all the interference from all our wallwarts MAY be a hint to them extraterrestrials that some species is tinkering
with \'trickety.

Maybe analyzing earth transmissions from say far away, Mars? would show we have 50 Hz and 60 Hz mains..
so reverse that.. look for power lines related frequencies?
There is so much possible..
Sure aliens must have received \'this is CNN\' by now!

 

[Martin Brown]

On 19/07/2023 10:35, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Maybe analyzing earth transmissions from say far away, Mars? would show we have 50 Hz and 60 Hz mains..
so reverse that.. look for power lines related frequencies?

You actually see light power so the flicker of 50/60Hz mains depending
on which hemisphere your are looking at (or both in Japan) is a 100Hz or
120Hz signal in the luminosity. That\'s one way dark sky detectors work
by measuring backscatter of street lighting (as opposed to natural sky
glow).

There is so much possible..
Sure aliens must have received \'this is CNN\' by now!

Be a bit odd if they have studied all our early transmissions on the way
here.

ISTR a SciFi story (film?) based on that premise and that they had been
mostly watching spaghetti westerns on their way to Earth to \"learn\" the
culture. Things obviously don\'t go quite to plan.

PS here is Jodrell Bank\'s take on how bright we look in the radio band:

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/advancaliens-could-soon-detect-life-on-earth-say-scientists/

--
Martin Brown

 

[server]

On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 09:35:48 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

>Our modern TV transmissions look very much like white noise...

Both radar ad TV transmissions are beamed mainly towards the horizon
(not up into the sky). To be detectable far out in the space, the
transmitter must be on either limb of the Earth as viewed by the
remote observer. As the Earth rotates, different stations are beamed
from the limb towards the foreign observer until it disappears.

Even with white noise TV signals, there are some quiet hours when an
ocean is at the limb.

In days of analog TV, first stations with 50 Hz would be on the limb
(Eurasia), then a low noise period (Atlantic) followed by 60 Hz
dominant signals (Americas) and followed by a long quiet period
(Pacific). Each analog UHF transmitter has megawatts of ERP directed
towards the horizon, which can be heard at great distance. Consider
that there are hundreds or thousands transmitters on the same time on
the limb, it will generate quite a cacophony .

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 19 Jul 2023 10:54:16 +0100) it happened Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <u98bs9$23e35$1@dont-email.me>:

On 19/07/2023 10:35, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Maybe analyzing earth transmissions from say far away, Mars? would show we have 50 Hz and 60 Hz mains..
so reverse that.. look for power lines related frequencies?

You actually see light power so the flicker of 50/60Hz mains depending
on which hemisphere your are looking at (or both in Japan) is a 100Hz or
120Hz signal in the luminosity. That\'s one way dark sky detectors work
by measuring backscatter of street lighting (as opposed to natural sky
glow).

Can space based telescopes like Webb or even earth based ones see 120 Hz flicker in their recordings?
Or do they use much longer exposure times?

There is so much possible..
Sure aliens must have received \'this is CNN\' by now!

Be a bit odd if they have studied all our early transmissions on the way
here.

ISTR a SciFi story (film?) based on that premise and that they had been
mostly watching spaghetti westerns on their way to Earth to \"learn\" the
culture. Things obviously don\'t go quite to plan.

I have seen this one, is that the one?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_Quest
actually quite funny

PS here is Jodrell Bank\'s take on how bright we look in the radio band:

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/advancaliens-could-soon-detect-life-on-earth-say-scientists/

Says:
\"The Earth is already anomalously bright in the radio part of the spectrum; if the trend continues,
we could become readily detectable by any advanced civilisation with the right technology.\"

Is likely true.

 

[legg]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 22:31:42 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett VE3BTI
<spamme@not.com> wrote:

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:

Better to use the resources required by SETI to work on real problems,
such as Dark Energy, Dark Matter, Fast Radio Bursts (FRBs), or a host of
other unsolved problems.

Resources?

I think you\'ll find that recent distributed computing effort are
more oriented towards modelling climate change or researching cancer..

RL

SETI uses lots of antennas and related hardware. These can be redirected to
research Dark Energy, Dark Matter, Fast Radio Bursts (FRBs), Long Baseline
Interferometry and many other problems.

I am not sure about the computation ability of SETI, but I don\'t think it is
suitable for modelling climate change or researching cancer. It is obviously
intended for peering into outer space.

SETI was an early adopter of distributed computing, by volunteers.

The volunteers, however, have to be convinced that their 60W of
computer power loss are directed towards useful research.

RL