new scopes

[John Larkin]

These are all color, and start at $995. They're getting pretty
agressive/insulting against Tek. The ads with the Rocketeer character
are pretty lame, as if they figure us geeks are easily impressed.

http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536898067.536905607/pd.html

If anybody buys one of these, please let us know what you think of
them.

John

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Wed, 11 May 2005 17:44:28 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

These are all color, and start at $995. They're getting pretty
agressive/insulting against Tek. The ads with the Rocketeer character
are pretty lame, as if they figure us geeks are easily impressed.

http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536898067.536905607/pd.html

If anybody buys one of these, please let us know what you think of
them.

John

"Agilent"? Isn't that just a new name for the Carly-ized hp?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Pooh Bear]

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 17:44:28 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:


These are all color, and start at $995. They're getting pretty
agressive/insulting against Tek. The ads with the Rocketeer character
are pretty lame, as if they figure us geeks are easily impressed.

http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536898067.536905607/pd.html

If anybody buys one of these, please let us know what you think of
them.

John

"Agilent"? Isn't that just a new name for the Carly-ized hp?

Actually, I thought that HP divested themselves of all their historically
profit earning arms such as test gear and semis. They have become Agilent.

Shame - HP sounds neater.

Graham

 

[Keith Williams]

In article <4282D349.93C194FE@hotmail.com>,
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com says...

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 17:44:28 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:


These are all color, and start at $995. They're getting pretty
agressive/insulting against Tek. The ads with the Rocketeer character
are pretty lame, as if they figure us geeks are easily impressed.

http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536898067.536905607/pd.html

If anybody buys one of these, please let us know what you think of
them.

John

"Agilent"? Isn't that just a new name for the Carly-ized hp?

Actually, I thought that HP divested themselves of all their historically
profit earning arms such as test gear and semis. They have become Agilent.

No, not all. HP still owns the ink division.

Shame - HP sounds neater.

Sure, but Aligentsounds better than having Carly try to bury the
instruments divisions.

--
Keith

 

[Bob Stephens]

On Wed, 11 May 2005 18:13:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 17:44:28 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:


These are all color, and start at $995. They're getting pretty
agressive/insulting against Tek. The ads with the Rocketeer character
are pretty lame, as if they figure us geeks are easily impressed.

http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536898067.536905607/pd.html

If anybody buys one of these, please let us know what you think of
them.

John

"Agilent"? Isn't that just a new name for the Carly-ized hp?

...Jim Thompson

I remember when HP test equipment looked like it meant business.
The Carly-ized front panel in the above link looks like you'd feel out of
place operating it without an iPod and a couple of piercings. Goofy
looking.

Bob

 

[Jeroen]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> schreef in
bericht news:7g9581he5n2jbh18fuknjsfedl4crvdjih@4ax.com...

These are all color, and start at $995. They're getting pretty
agressive/insulting against Tek. The ads with the Rocketeer character
are pretty lame, as if they figure us geeks are easily impressed.

http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536898067.536905607/pd.html

If anybody buys one of these, please let us know what you think of
them.

The device looks quite the same as the Tek TDS3034 I've here, at a first
glance. This 3034 is the finest scope I ever worked with. How do other
people think of this scope?

'Reach beyond Tek scopes' sounds much like Xilinx vs Altera.

Jeroen

 

[Chris Carlen]

John Larkin wrote:

These are all color, and start at $995. They're getting pretty
agressive/insulting against Tek. The ads with the Rocketeer character
are pretty lame, as if they figure us geeks are easily impressed.

http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536898067.536905607/pd.html

If anybody buys one of these, please let us know what you think of
them.

John

The price is great for the capabilities. Should make a bunch more
hobbyists able to get into the DSO game. I don't regret my purchase of
a Tek TDS3014 for $4400 a few years ago though, for home. Great for
fixin' the toaster and stuff.

I've ordered the new Agilent MSO6054 with 8Mpts memory upgrade and logic
analyzer channels for work. Should arrive in a few weeks. I'll make
some comments about it sometime.

Good day!


--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and "BOGUS" from email address to reply.

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 12 May 2005 17:13:27 +0200, "Jeroen" <none@none.com> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> schreef in
bericht news:7g9581he5n2jbh18fuknjsfedl4crvdjih@4ax.com...

These are all color, and start at $995. They're getting pretty
agressive/insulting against Tek. The ads with the Rocketeer character
are pretty lame, as if they figure us geeks are easily impressed.

http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536898067.536905607/pd.html

If anybody buys one of these, please let us know what you think of
them.


The device looks quite the same as the Tek TDS3034 I've here, at a first
glance. This 3034 is the finest scope I ever worked with. How do other
people think of this scope?

I have a 3032 and it's the first digital scoped I've ever loved, much
less wanted to be in the same room with. And the fet probes are
awesome. But my 'personal' scope is a cheap TDS2012, 100 MHz color
thing, and it's great for 90% of what I do.

'Reach beyond Tek scopes' sounds much like Xilinx vs Altera.

Yeah. After ignoring this end of the business for a decade or so, now
every other word they utter is 'Tektronix.'

John

 

[John Larkin]

On 12 May 2005 09:33:13 -0700, "Paul Mathews" <optoeng@pioneernet.net>
wrote:

TDS2000 series has much inferior front-end, with practically zero CMRR,
although the isolated inputs can be useful in spite of that problem.

Precisely zero CMRR. The BNCs are grounded.

But what's wrong with the front end? Seems to work fine for me.
Overload recovery is excellent.

John

 

[Pooh Bear]

John Larkin wrote:

On 12 May 2005 09:33:13 -0700, "Paul Mathews" <optoeng@pioneernet.net
wrote:

TDS2000 series has much inferior front-end, with practically zero CMRR,
although the isolated inputs can be useful in spite of that problem.

Precisely zero CMRR. The BNCs are grounded.

LOL ! I'm glad you pointed that out.

Whatever happened to differential inputs btw ?

I can recall a few scopes of old that I've used that had differential
plug-ins. Damn useful too.

Graham

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 12 May 2005 20:53:32 +0100, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On 12 May 2005 09:33:13 -0700, "Paul Mathews" <optoeng@pioneernet.net
wrote:

TDS2000 series has much inferior front-end, with practically zero CMRR,
although the isolated inputs can be useful in spite of that problem.

Precisely zero CMRR. The BNCs are grounded.

LOL ! I'm glad you pointed that out.

Whatever happened to differential inputs btw ?

I can recall a few scopes of old that I've used that had differential
plug-ins. Damn useful too.

A couple of the new Tek scopes have fully, galvanically isolated input
channels. Handy for switching power supplies and such, I'd imagine.

Tek also sells external filter/isolator boxes that aren't bad.

John

 

[Pooh Bear]

John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 12 May 2005 20:53:32 +0100, Pooh Bear
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


John Larkin wrote:

On 12 May 2005 09:33:13 -0700, "Paul Mathews" <optoeng@pioneernet.net
wrote:

TDS2000 series has much inferior front-end, with practically zero CMRR,
although the isolated inputs can be useful in spite of that problem.

Precisely zero CMRR. The BNCs are grounded.

LOL ! I'm glad you pointed that out.

Whatever happened to differential inputs btw ?

I can recall a few scopes of old that I've used that had differential
plug-ins. Damn useful too.


A couple of the new Tek scopes have fully, galvanically isolated input
channels. Handy for switching power supplies and such, I'd imagine.

Funny you should say that - it's exactly what I had in mind ! The pcb for the
new smps arrives next Tuesday.

Hah ! I must ask what process they're using for the hot air levelling.


Graham

 

[BFoelsch]

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
newsd27811objlvguu2l222bqsn0sun0vu4je@4ax.com...

On 12 May 2005 09:33:13 -0700, "Paul Mathews" <optoeng@pioneernet.net
wrote:


TDS2000 series has much inferior front-end, with practically zero CMRR,
although the isolated inputs can be useful in spite of that problem.


Precisely zero CMRR. The BNCs are grounded.

But what's wrong with the front end? Seems to work fine for me.
Overload recovery is excellent.

I think Paul was referring to the A-B capability, which is also referred to
as CMRR.

He is correct. The math functions are performed on the screen image, not the
input values. The dynamic range and differential CMRR are exactly one screen
height. Try an A-B with one input spilling over the edge of the screen!

I too like the 2012. There are some things it just plain won't do, like
display a modulation envelope. Biggest single gripe is the way it puts the
trigger point in the middle of the screen, rather than at or near the left
end, although now that I think of it I should be able to make a custom setup
to work around that.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 12 May 2005 20:58:28 -0400, "BFoelsch"
<BFoelsch@comcast.ditch.this.net> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
newsd27811objlvguu2l222bqsn0sun0vu4je@4ax.com...
On 12 May 2005 09:33:13 -0700, "Paul Mathews" <optoeng@pioneernet.net
wrote:


TDS2000 series has much inferior front-end, with practically zero CMRR,
although the isolated inputs can be useful in spite of that problem.


Precisely zero CMRR. The BNCs are grounded.

But what's wrong with the front end? Seems to work fine for me.
Overload recovery is excellent.

I think Paul was referring to the A-B capability, which is also referred to
as CMRR.

He is correct. The math functions are performed on the screen image, not the
input values. The dynamic range and differential CMRR are exactly one screen
height. Try an A-B with one input spilling over the edge of the screen!

I too like the 2012. There are some things it just plain won't do, like
display a modulation envelope. Biggest single gripe is the way it puts the
trigger point in the middle of the screen, rather than at or near the left
end, although now that I think of it I should be able to make a custom setup
to work around that.

I sort of like that, seeing pre and post-trigger stuff. But if you
don't, just turn the horizontal position knob.

John

 

[Mac]

On Thu, 12 May 2005 20:58:28 -0400, BFoelsch wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
newsd27811objlvguu2l222bqsn0sun0vu4je@4ax.com...
On 12 May 2005 09:33:13 -0700, "Paul Mathews" <optoeng@pioneernet.net
wrote:


TDS2000 series has much inferior front-end, with practically zero CMRR,
although the isolated inputs can be useful in spite of that problem.


Precisely zero CMRR. The BNCs are grounded.

But what's wrong with the front end? Seems to work fine for me.
Overload recovery is excellent.

I think Paul was referring to the A-B capability, which is also referred to
as CMRR.

He is correct. The math functions are performed on the screen image, not the
input values. The dynamic range and differential CMRR are exactly one screen
height. Try an A-B with one input spilling over the edge of the screen!

I too like the 2012. There are some things it just plain won't do, like
display a modulation envelope. Biggest single gripe is the way it puts the
trigger point in the middle of the screen, rather than at or near the left
end, although now that I think of it I should be able to make a custom setup
to work around that.

Well, you can put it wherever you want it. But if you are going to change
from microseconds to nanoseconds per division, it helps to put the trigger
event at the center of the screen, first. ;-)

John

--Mac

 

[Mac]

On Thu, 12 May 2005 07:09:04 -0700, Bob Stephens wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 18:13:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Wed, 11 May 2005 17:44:28 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:


These are all color, and start at $995. They're getting pretty
agressive/insulting against Tek. The ads with the Rocketeer character
are pretty lame, as if they figure us geeks are easily impressed.

http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536898067.536905607/pd.html

If anybody buys one of these, please let us know what you think of
them.

John

"Agilent"? Isn't that just a new name for the Carly-ized hp?

...Jim Thompson

No, I don't think so. The HP moniker stuck with all the computer products
and peripherals and so forth.

Agilent got all the product lines that originally made HP famous. Power
supplies, test equipment and so on.

I remember when HP test equipment looked like it meant business.
The Carly-ized front panel in the above link looks like you'd feel out of
place operating it without an iPod and a couple of piercings. Goofy
looking.

Bob

Unless I am mistaken, Carly Fiorina had little to do with creating
Agilent, and even less to do with running it. She was appointed CEO of HP
in July of 99, and the IPO for Agilent was in November of that same year.
It seems to me that the split must have been in the works since before she
took the helm. In any event, she can't be held responsible for changes at
Agilent after the split, can she?

--Mac

 

[John Miles]

In article <12wxx5jx4ub5t.1597wvcx3woop.dlg@40tude.net>,
roberts@dcxchol.com says...

On Wed, 11 May 2005 18:13:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

I remember when HP test equipment looked like it meant business.
The Carly-ized front panel in the above link looks like you'd feel out of
place operating it without an iPod and a couple of piercings. Goofy
looking.

Well, to be fair, they're just ripping off Tek's new "Fisher-Price" look
and feel in that respect. Those scopes are aimed squarely at Tek's
TDS2000 line, and seem to be direct rip-offs. Probably no reason other
than price to choose one vendor over the other in that market segment.

Fiorina had nothing to do with any Agilent products whatsoever. The
breakup occurred before her time, if I remember correctly.

-- jm

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx
Note: My E-mail address has been altered to avoid spam
------------------------------------------------------

 

[John Larkin]

On 13 May 2005 07:18:33 -0700, "Paul Mathews" <optoeng@pioneernet.net>
wrote:

Sorry to insult your particular choice of equipment. I suggest that
you try this experiment with a TDS2000 and a TDS3000 scope:

Connect a passive scope probe, with its tip grounded, to a high dv/dt
signal source. (Try this with any 'safe' arrangement of grounds, of
course.) You'll understand what I mean by CMRR. Call it what you
like. The TDS2000 will show a significant amount of 'signal'; the
TDS3000 will not. This is pretty important for people working with
switchmode circuitry, for example. I think TDS2000 series are great
products, but they have their limitations.

Well, for 1/5 the price, they have a right to a few limitations. When
I want to look at signals like this, I use my TDS3052 with its fet
probe, which is astoundingly clean compared to any passive probe. I
haven't tried the fet probe with the 2012, since it doesn't have the
Tekprobe connectors.

Lots of scopes, including the big old things on carts, will show
signal with a passive probe ground+tip both connected to a chassis.
Our lab is almost in the shadow of the Sutro Tower antennas (20+
megawatts of am/fm/tv/dtv) and 50 feet from a biggish cell site, in a
wooden building. Clamping a ferrite around the scope line cord, or
around the probe cable, sometimes helps.

I wish these scopes had a 1 MHz bw option. For sensitive stuff, I
still wheel out my monster 7104+7A22; 10 uV/div, switchable bw down to
100 Hz, amazing cmrr.

John

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 13 May 2005 08:01:07 -0700, John Miles
<jmiles@pop.removethistomailme.net> wrote:

In article <12wxx5jx4ub5t.1597wvcx3woop.dlg@40tude.net>,
roberts@dcxchol.com says...
On Wed, 11 May 2005 18:13:25 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

I remember when HP test equipment looked like it meant business.
The Carly-ized front panel in the above link looks like you'd feel out of
place operating it without an iPod and a couple of piercings. Goofy
looking.

Well, to be fair, they're just ripping off Tek's new "Fisher-Price" look
and feel in that respect. Those scopes are aimed squarely at Tek's
TDS2000 line, and seem to be direct rip-offs. Probably no reason other
than price to choose one vendor over the other in that market segment.

The TDS2000 scopes look fine to me. I've got so used to a color
display that my old 7000 analog scopes tend to confuse me now.

A decade or so ago, when digital scopes were just getting going good,
we demoed an HP scope whose front-panel had a few arrow keys and a
numeric pad. Nobody could get it to do much of anything that made
sense, so we didn't buy it.

The competiton is good. I hope that expensive extras (that actually
cost very little) like RS-232, USB, FFTs, and such will become
standard. Tek will probably have to give us more pixels, too.

I do remember when a 30 MHz scope with a single-channel plugin cost
more than a Chevrolet, and had the same number of wheels.

John

 

[Frank Miles]

In article <vdi981hqm53uhv1qt728386302o7m749l4@4ax.com>,
John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

[snip]

I do remember when a 30 MHz scope with a single-channel plugin cost
more than a Chevrolet, and had the same number of wheels.

John Addis (one of the designers at Tek in the past) used to joke that the
top of the line Tek scope cost about the same as a Cadillac.

-f
--