new dual NPN and PNP transistors

B

Ban

Guest
Win had asked here some time ago about matched duals, these are 10% hFE and
2mV UBE matched and low cost. I use them for a log converter in a VU-meter.

http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/acrobat/datasheets/BCM847BS_1.pdf
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/acrobat/datasheets/BCM857BS_1.pdf

--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy
 
Hello Ban,

Nice parts indeed. How low is the cost at 1k or higher quantities?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
Joerg wrote:
Hello Ban,

Nice parts indeed. How low is the cost at 1k or higher quantities?

I have only free samples but Arrow lists the BC 547BS for 0.046 each.
This seems too good to be true, together with the current mirrors BCV60/61
they can make nice discrete differential amplifiers.

--
ciao Ban
Bordighera, Italy
 
Hi Ban,

I have only free samples but Arrow lists the BC 547BS for 0.046 each.


That seems to be the normal transistor which you can get under 2 cents.
When I keyed in BCM847 Arrow didn't have it.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 00:16:48 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hi Spehro,

Presumably the "M" is for matched. I can't find it listed anywhere- no
links from Philips' site either. 8-(


There are actually two devices in there, not like in the olden days
where we bought them one matched pair per bag. Pretty nifty but they
have to make it readily available.

The Philips site actually drives me crazy. A classic example of how not
to design a web presence. That goes for a lot of European manufacturers.
Great products but often poor marketing.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

The Panasonic site is cool. It often can't do a successful search for
one of their own part numbers.

John
 
In article <l4jul0d9qj2ir9ei0nfhmnk6j2o5mqs26m@4ax.com>,
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
[...]
Getting useful information through most any of the Japanese web sites
is a harrowing experience. It would be interesting to see if
Japanese-speaking engineers have the same problems, or if the problems
are just with Gaijin users.
Based on exactly one sample, I'd say they have less luck.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
Joerg wrote:
Hello Ban,

Nice parts indeed.
Er... Why?

So, they are matched devices. So what. The rest of the data sheet shows
average, common or garden specs. For example, ft at 250Mhz is
unimpressive, as is the 10p Cbe equally unimpressive. In addition, no
noise data is shown.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
 
Tim Shoppa wrote...
Ban, you wrote about BCV60's a while back too, I couldn't
even figure out who made those, much less sold them!
BCV61 and BCV62 are npn and pnp mirrors in sot-143 packages,
with 30% current (10mV Vbe) matching. They're made by Philips
and Infineon; Farnell and Newark have them for mere pennies.


--
Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dotties-org for now)
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Kevin Aylward
<salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote (in <SVU7d.189712$hZ3.163636@fe2.news
..blueyonder.co.uk>) about 'new dual NPN and PNP transistors', on Sun, 3
Oct 2004:
Yep the classic, LM394 pair, is 50uv matching and 2% hfe match (0.5%
typ), with very low 1/f noise. It costs a bit though.
Gigantic Ccb = 10 pF. A sort of silicon dual PX4/2A3. (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
Joerg wrote...
If the price is right, meaning under 10 cents or so, you can do nice
circuits with matched pairs that are in the same package. But you
have a point here. A 10% hfe match is ok but not really something to
write home about.
http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/BCM847BS.html
Is this interesting? Most low-cost dual parts these days aren't
monolithic, and have no matching spec at all. Some of the "mirror"
parts have 40% mirror specs, not very good, but better than nothing
(this corresponds to a 10mV Vbe offset for matched transistors, see
AoE fig 2.53). But I'm puzzled by the beta matching offered by some
manufacturers - what's the appeal? If a 10% hfe spec corresponded
to a 10% mirror or offset match, that would be useful, but there's
no indication that there's any correspondence.


--
Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dotties-org for now)
 
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 23:32:34 +0200, Stefan Heinzmann
<stefan_heinzmann@yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip]
Wouldn't it be enough to just put two dice from the same wafer into the
same package for achieving such levels of matching?
That's what is done in, for example, the MPQ2222.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Joerg wrote:

Hi Kevin,

Yep the classic, LM394 pair, is 50uv matching and 2% hfe match (0.5%
typ), with very low 1/f noise. It costs a bit though.


Nice but.... over $3. Ouch. That's cost prohibitive in most of my
designs. A lot of tasks can also be solved by moving from relative
precision or match to absolute precision. Things such as the reference
LMV431buys you better than 2% for around 15 cents. So that one has
become one of my staples.

Sometimes I envy chip designers like Jim Thompson who can add matched
circuitry with a few mouse strokes and it costs them next to nothing.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Diodes Inc makes a lot of NPN, PNP, FET and NPN/PNP pairs in rather
dinky SMT packages, at a decent price.
 
Jim Thompson wrote...
Gee! I don't have a bit of trouble making better than 1% mirrors,
it's as simple as just plunking them down on the schematic ;-)
That's because it's not simply you who's making the accurate
mirrors, it's the fab house with their fine processes. :>)
Naturally you do get to provide some embellishment in the exact
configuration you plunk down.


--
Thanks,
- Win

(email: use hill_at_rowland-dotties-org for now)
 
In article <wU5ZjJMQ0FYBFwoc@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
John Woodgate <noone@yuk.yuk> wrote:
[...]
My guess is that if your device has a 10% beta match, flaunt it, even
though it's irrelevant. Next week, dual devices in which the package is
****exactly the same colour for both devices****!!!!.
... except in the US they will leave the "U" out.

When the spec goes from 10% HFE to 10% on colo(u)r, you can expect them to
call the new part improved.

Improved: Changed in some random way.

Obsolete: The guy who knew how to make them retired.

Low noise: Less than rail to rail noise.

Compatible: May work in some selected applications.

Direct cross: Double crossed by marketing.



--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
On 4 Oct 2004 05:16:55 -0700, shoppa@trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
wrote:

Speaking generally, the Japanese and European websites are nearly useless.
I've had some limited success with NEC and Toshiba. My guess is that
they went out and spent money on a pretty website that is pretty much
useless.

Tim.
For NEC semiconductors, try CEL.COM. Much better.

John
 
On Monday 04 October 2004 09:37 am, Jim Thompson did deign to grace us with
the following:

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:15:03 +0100, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

[snip]

The Dutch make 'erwtensoepe' with smoked bacon. You can stand a spoon up
in it. Very good. The 'w' is a vowel.

That's my kind of split pea soup... good and thick ;-)
Yeah - makes good spackle for those pea-green walls. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlog
DOTyou.knowwhat> wrote (in <v853m09fj3l9rct7ndle2va50qv0lrdhme@4ax.com>)
about 'new dual NPN and PNP transistors', on Mon, 4 Oct 2004:
Like the imaginary word "ghot" (pronounced "fish"- 'gh'
as in "laugh", 'o' as in "women", and 't' as in "nation").
George Bernard Shaw wrote 'ghoti'. How about 'Phtholognerrh'?
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
On Monday 04 October 2004 11:47 am, Joerg did deign to grace us with the
following:
....
Or like "bot", Canadian short version for "about, 'o' as in "woman".
Huh?

In Canada, "about" is pronounced, "aboot". Where are you at, if you don't
mind my asking? (or even if you do mind, it's too late, I've already
asked. >:-> )

Thanks,
Rich
 
On Monday 04 October 2004 02:22 pm, Joerg did deign to grace us with the
following:

Hi Rich,

Or like "bot", Canadian short version for "about, 'o' as in "woman".



Huh?

In Canada, "about" is pronounced, "aboot". Where are you at, if you don't
mind my asking? (or even if you do mind, it's too late, I've already
asked. >:-> )


In Kahlifohniah. Northern part, near Sacramento.

You are right. Should have said 'o' as in tombstone. Unless they
pronounce that differently elsewhere.
I was in my teens before I found out that "womb" doesn't rhyme with
"bomb." (most of what I'd learned I got from reading.)

Thanks,
Rich
 
"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:syz8d.4726$Sl2.40@trnddc09...
On Monday 04 October 2004 02:22 pm, Joerg did deign to grace us with the
following:

Hi Rich,

Or like "bot", Canadian short version for "about, 'o' as in "woman".



Huh?

In Canada, "about" is pronounced, "aboot". Where are you at, if you
don't
mind my asking? (or even if you do mind, it's too late, I've already
asked. >:-> )
Hmm I guess all my friends and coworkers are 'mericans, the aboot is mostly
Quebec(french) east to the coast.
Pat (proudly Canadian)
 

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