New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter...

[Jan Panteltje]

New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?


Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 2:40:31 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:

New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?

Not so differrent or at least into my idea of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.

In the sense of being terminally stupid?

The University of Adelaide seems to have fallen behind since the Braggs got a Nobel Prize there. Both my parents got chemistry degrees there in the 1930\'s, but didn\'t got back.

Two of my cousins were professors there in the 1970\'s for a couple of years, but didn\'t find it a congenial environment, and left to work in better places.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[a a]

Off-topic troll...

--
Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

Path: not-for-mail
From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter
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[Flyguy]

On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 9:51:46 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 2:40:31 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?

Not so differrent or at least into my idea of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.
In the sense of being terminally stupid?

The University of Adelaide seems to have fallen behind since the Braggs got a Nobel Prize there. Both my parents got chemistry degrees there in the 1930\'s, but didn\'t got back.

Two of my cousins were professors there in the 1970\'s for a couple of years, but didn\'t find it a congenial environment, and left to work in better places.

--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney

More ad hominem garbage by that idiot, Bozo. Try presenting facts next time, Bozo.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 10:39:21 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 9:51:46 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 2:40:31 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?

Not so differrent or at least into my idea of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.

In the sense of being terminally stupid?

The University of Adelaide seems to have fallen behind since the Braggs got a Nobel Prize there. Both my parents got chemistry degrees there in the 1930\'s, but didn\'t got back.

Two of my cousins were professors there in the 1970\'s for a couple of years, but didn\'t find it a congenial environment, and left to work in better places.

More ad hominem garbage. Try presenting facts next time.

Those are five facts. They do provide information on a particularly nebulous quality - the reputation of a whole university - which isn\'t any kind of hominid.

Try saying something useful, rather than indulging in personal abuse. I know that this is utterly beyond your senile excuse for a brain, but I can still suggest that you might do better, even when it seems very unlikely that you could, or would want to try.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[a a]

The idiot Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

--
Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:

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[Martin Brown]

On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:

New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?

It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some
data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with.

High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to
understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever increasing
speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.

Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.

The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.

Eventually the experimentalists will observe it or the theorists will
come up with new physics that makes it redundant. Either one is possible.

Dark matter detectors really push the limits on what is possible. They
zone refine the materials for making the components and then verify that
each is radiologically clean before using it. Still waiting for them to
see a particle that looks like it could be the real McCoy.

--
Martin Brown

 

[John Larkin]

On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?

It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some
data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with.

High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to
understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever increasing
speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.


Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.

The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.

Dark matter interacts with gravity.

That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.

 

[a a]

The idiot Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

--
Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

Path: not-for-mail
From: Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100
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[a a]

The idiot John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

--
John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> wrote:

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Subject: Re: New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter
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[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:40:17 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co..uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:

<snip>

The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.
Dark matter interacts with gravity.

That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.

Not to anybody with access to suitable test equipment.

--
Bill Sloman. Sydney

 

[Martin Brown]

On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:

On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?

It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some
data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with.

High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to
understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever increasing
speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.


Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.

The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.

Dark matter interacts with gravity.

Dark matter only seems to interact as unseen mass needed to balance
dynamical equations on a galactic scale and so far undetectable mass.

That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.

What do you suggest? The big problem is in finding any evidence of dark
matter - if we ever had a lump of it then it might be testable in the
lab. One problem for astronomers is that we are stuck with what we can
observe from our location in an outer spiral arm of our galaxy.

All we can do at present is observe its effects in how quickly and what
sorts of galaxies form in simulations and how stars are able to orbit
the galactic centre too fast for their position. The evidence of missing
mass has been clear every since spectroscopy showed that galaxy rotation
curves could not be explained just by the visible stellar masses.

Some sort of non-luminous matter must also be present but modern
observations in all wavebands have now ruled out the possibility that it
could be any kind of ordinary baryonic matter since that would interact
with starlight and so be detectable to out instruments.

Meanwhile the search for a single fleeting particle of the mysterious
cold dark matter remains active in various deep mines around the world.

--
Martin Brown

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown
<\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?

It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some
data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with.

High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to
understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever increasing
speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.


Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.

The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.

Dark matter interacts with gravity.

Dark matter only seems to interact as unseen mass needed to balance
dynamical equations on a galactic scale and so far undetectable mass.

That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.

What do you suggest? The big problem is in finding any evidence of dark
matter - if we ever had a lump of it then it might be testable in the
lab. One problem for astronomers is that we are stuck with what we can
observe from our location in an outer spiral arm of our galaxy.

There are lots of possibilities.

One is that there are multiple universes and the only force that
connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in similar
patterns in multiple universes.

Your turn.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 12:14:35 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad..co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:

<snip>

What do you suggest? The big problem is in finding any evidence of dark matter - if we ever had a lump of it then it might be testable in the lab. One problem for astronomers is that we are stuck with what we can observe from our location in an outer spiral arm of our galaxy.
There are lots of possibilities.

One is that there are multiple universes and the only force that connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in similar patterns in multiple universes.

And this is supposed to be a testable hypothesis? Do tell us how.

> Your turn.

Not until you tell us how you plan to test your own hypothesis.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Phil Hobbs]

On 2023-09-26 10:14, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?

It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some
data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with.

High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to
understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever increasing
speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.


Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.

The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.

Dark matter interacts with gravity.

Dark matter only seems to interact as unseen mass needed to balance
dynamical equations on a galactic scale and so far undetectable mass.

That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.

What do you suggest? The big problem is in finding any evidence of dark
matter - if we ever had a lump of it then it might be testable in the
lab. One problem for astronomers is that we are stuck with what we can
observe from our location in an outer spiral arm of our galaxy.


There are lots of possibilities.

One is that there are multiple universes and the only force that
connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in similar
patterns in multiple universes.

Your turn.

The whole thing is a consequence of the Shoe Event Horizon.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[Martin Brown]

On 30/09/2023 01:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:

On 2023-09-26 10:14, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
     Dark photon?

It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some
data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with.

High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to
understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever
increasing
speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.


Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.

The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it
is to
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.

Dark matter interacts with gravity.

Dark matter only seems to interact as unseen mass needed to balance
dynamical equations on a galactic scale and so far undetectable mass.

That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.

What do you suggest? The big problem is in finding any evidence of dark
matter - if we ever had a lump of it then it might be testable in the
lab. One problem for astronomers is that we are stuck with what we can
observe from our location in an outer spiral arm of our galaxy.


There are lots of possibilities.

One is that there are multiple universes and the only force that
connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in similar
patterns in multiple universes.

Your turn.

Exactly what testable predictions does this word salad make then?
At best it is an untestable conjecture - yet another \"Just so story\".

At least the CDM theory predicts that in the early universe with WIMPs
being their own antiparticles then exotic super bright \"dark stars\" (the
researchers term for them powered by dark matter self annihilation might
be observed). There are a few candidates in the JSW images. They need to
get some spectra to show if the stars are burning by fusion of ordinary
matter or something else. Either way they are incredibly bright (which
makes the name \"dark star\" more than a bit misleading.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/jwst-might-have-spotted-the-first-dark-matter-stars/

https://physicsworld.com/a/stars-powered-by-dark-matter-may-have-been-seen-by-the-jwst/

More technical article in PNAS

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2305762120

They might also provide a convenient mechanism to form the super massive
black holes that are observed at the centre of most larger galaxies.

I guess the choice of Dark Star shows the scientist\'s sense of humour
and is a tribute to the film of that name with the immortal line \"Time
for Sergeant Pinback to feed the alien\" and the self aware super bomb.

> The whole thing is a consequence of the Shoe Event Horizon.

That was of it\'s time which was the 1970\'s when every third shop in the
UK was a Shoe Shop and Doulas Adams wrote HHGG as a radio play. It was
later supplanted by the Mobile Phone Event Horizon, Charity Shop EH and
most recently the Empty Shop Front EH. The latter is truly depressing.

Several big national store chains have gone spectacularly bust recently
so UK high streets are now devoid of shops - Shoe or otherwise.
Latest was Wilko\'s last week 400 shops 12k employees

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66394238

--
Martin Brown

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 5:35:57 PM UTC+10, Martin Brown wrote:

On 30/09/2023 01:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2023-09-26 10:14, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad..co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown <\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:

<snip>

There are lots of possibilities.

One is that there are multiple universes and the only force that connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in similar patterns in multiple universes.

Your turn.

Exactly what testable predictions does this word salad make then?
At best it is an untestable conjecture - yet another \"Just so story\".

At least the CDM theory predicts that in the early universe with WIMPs
being their own antiparticles then exotic super bright \"dark stars\" (the
researchers term for them powered by dark matter self annihilation might
be observed). There are a few candidates in the JSW images. They need to
get some spectra to show if the stars are burning by fusion of ordinary
matter or something else. Either way they are incredibly bright (which
makes the name \"dark star\" more than a bit misleading.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/jwst-might-have-spotted-the-first-dark-matter-stars/

https://physicsworld.com/a/stars-powered-by-dark-matter-may-have-been-seen-by-the-jwst/

More technical article in PNAS

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2305762120

They might also provide a convenient mechanism to form the super massive black holes that are observed at the centre of most larger galaxies.

This seems to be inventing an an unnecessary difference between the first stars (which didn\'t contain any elements beyond hydrogen and helium) and their successors which did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_population

These hypothetical Population 3 stars had a real and predictable difference.. Inventing an extra difference involving entirely hypothetical dark matter doesn\'t seem to be necessary or useful.

Interpretting spectra from objects along way away at enormous red-shifts embedded in galaxies that clearly worked rather differently from the ones we know about is a demanding exercise. Throwing in lunatic hypotheses jsn\'t helpful

<snip>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Martin Brown]

On 01/10/2023 15:00, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 5:35:57 PM UTC+10, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 30/09/2023 01:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2023-09-26 10:14, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:

snip

There are lots of possibilities.

One is that there are multiple universes and the only force
that connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in
similar patterns in multiple universes.

Your turn.

Exactly what testable predictions does this word salad make then?
At best it is an untestable conjecture - yet another \"Just so
story\".

At least the CDM theory predicts that in the early universe with
WIMPs being their own antiparticles then exotic super bright \"dark
stars\" (the researchers term for them powered by dark matter self
annihilation might be observed). There are a few candidates in the
JSW images. They need to get some spectra to show if the stars are
burning by fusion of ordinary matter or something else. Either way
they are incredibly bright (which makes the name \"dark star\" more
than a bit misleading.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/jwst-might-have-spotted-the-first-dark-matter-stars/



https://physicsworld.com/a/stars-powered-by-dark-matter-may-have-been-seen-by-the-jwst/

More technical article in PNAS

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2305762120

They might also provide a convenient mechanism to form the super
massive black holes that are observed at the centre of most larger
galaxies.

This seems to be inventing an an unnecessary difference between the
first stars (which didn\'t contain any elements beyond hydrogen and
helium) and their successors which did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_population

These hypothetical Population 3 stars had a real and predictable
difference. Inventing an extra difference involving entirely
hypothetical dark matter doesn\'t seem to be necessary or useful.

You miss the point entirely. It *is* a questionable conjecture *but* it
makes a clear *experimentally testable* prediction. JWST may well give
us the answer one way or the other within a couple of years.

BTW Pop III stars are more metal depleted than later Pop II but there
was at least some Lithium (and Beryllium) which serves to help ignite
stars at lower mass than pure hydrogen and helium.

The curious observed shortage of Lithium in older Pop II stars compared
to the amount expected to have been synthesised in the Big Bang remains
a puzzle. It is about a factor of 4 lower than theory predicts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_lithium_problem

Interpretting spectra from objects along way away at enormous
red-shifts embedded in galaxies that clearly worked rather
differently from the ones we know about is a demanding exercise.
Throwing in lunatic hypotheses jsn\'t helpful

snip

It isn\'t a lunatic hypothesis and more importantly it makes an
experimentally testable prediction which was why I chose it as an
example. It is now bordering on mainstream in the supersymmetry
cosmological camp. I have my doubts about \"dark stars\" being powered by
dark matter but nature will be the final arbiter in this debate.

This article in a popular astronomy magazine is from 5 years ago.

https://www.astronomy.com/science/dark-stars-come-into-the-light/

The conjecture of Dark Stars and theory itself is a decade older still.

--
Martin Brown

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 6:58:11 PM UTC+11, Martin Brown wrote:

On 01/10/2023 15:00, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 5:35:57 PM UTC+10, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 30/09/2023 01:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2023-09-26 10:14, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
\'\'\'newspam\'\'\'@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:

snip

There are lots of possibilities.

One is that there are multiple universes and the only force
that connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in
similar patterns in multiple universes.

Your turn.

Exactly what testable predictions does this word salad make then?
At best it is an untestable conjecture - yet another \"Just so
story\".

At least the CDM theory predicts that in the early universe with
WIMPs being their own antiparticles then exotic super bright \"dark
stars\" (the researchers term for them powered by dark matter self
annihilation might be observed). There are a few candidates in the
JSW images. They need to get some spectra to show if the stars are
burning by fusion of ordinary matter or something else. Either way
they are incredibly bright (which makes the name \"dark star\" more
than a bit misleading.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/jwst-might-have-spotted-the-first-dark-matter-stars/



https://physicsworld.com/a/stars-powered-by-dark-matter-may-have-been-seen-by-the-jwst/

More technical article in PNAS

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2305762120

They might also provide a convenient mechanism to form the super
massive black holes that are observed at the centre of most larger
galaxies.

This seems to be inventing an an unnecessary difference between the
first stars (which didn\'t contain any elements beyond hydrogen and
helium) and their successors which did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_population

These hypothetical Population 3 stars had a real and predictable
difference. Inventing an extra difference involving entirely
hypothetical dark matter doesn\'t seem to be necessary or useful.
You miss the point entirely. It *is* a questionable conjecture *but* it
makes a clear *experimentally testable* prediction. JWST may well give
us the answer one way or the other within a couple of years.

BTW Pop III stars are more metal depleted than later Pop II but there
was at least some Lithium (and Beryllium) which serves to help ignite
stars at lower mass than pure hydrogen and helium.

The curious observed shortage of Lithium in older Pop II stars compared
to the amount expected to have been synthesised in the Big Bang remains
a puzzle. It is about a factor of 4 lower than theory predicts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_lithium_problem

Interpreting spectra from objects along way away at enormous
red-shifts embedded in galaxies that clearly worked rather
differently from the ones we know about is a demanding exercise.
Throwing in lunatic hypotheses jsn\'t helpful

snip
It isn\'t a lunatic hypothesis and more importantly it makes an experimentally testable prediction which was why I chose it as an example. It is now bordering on mainstream in the supersymmetry cosmological camp. I have my doubts about \"dark stars\" being powered by dark matter but nature will be the final arbiter in this debate.

Making \"testable\" predictions about spectra we\'ve never seen isn\'t any kind of get out of jail free card.

The critical point about stars with very low metallicity is that they would have been a lot more transparent than modern stars. Photons generated at the fusing core of the sun take about 100,000 years to make it to the surface.

Hydrogen and helium have many fewer absorbtion lines than the heavier elements that you find in population 1 stars and the older population 2 stars.

The photons generated at the core of a heavy population 3 star are going to be gravitationally red-shifted and Doppler shifted from the absorbtion lines of the hydrogen and helium gas above them. The spectrum that gets out isn\'t going to be what we see coming out of the sun or its predecessors, and it will probably coming out from much deeper in the star.

\"A helium-II absorption feature at 1640 Å\" (which will have been hugely Hubble-shifted anyway) is going to have quite a few possible confounds.

This article in a popular astronomy magazine is from 5 years ago.

https://www.astronomy.com/science/dark-stars-come-into-the-light/

The conjecture of Dark Stars and theory itself is a decade older still.

It\'s still just a conjecture, as is dark matter itself, and piling another Pelion of unnecessary speculation on top of what is, in itself an Ossian of speculation (if one which looks more useful) does set my teeth on edge.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney