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Dimiter_Popoff

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I mentioned it earlier in another thread so here it is:

http://tgi-sci.com/tgi/tld/index.htm

I was improvising the speech for the video so it is pretty stuttering,
I may have to voice it over some day... This would also take care
of the washing machine sound from downstairs :).

There is no link to the product page yet from the root of the website,
I'll put one after sleeping on it once or twice I suppose.

My greatest pride is not the electronics part, it was significantly
more trivial to make than that for HPGe spectrometry, but the mechanics.
All done in the new mechanical workshop - apart from the gear
wheels, the large brass one was off the shelf and got modified for
the purpose (basically cutting its teeth would have been a bit too
much for the workshop as it is now).

Dimiter

======================================================
Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com
======================================================
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/
 
Dimiter_Popoff wrote...
I mentioned it earlier in another thread so here it is:

http://tgi-sci.com/tgi/tld/index.htm

I was improvising the speech for the video so it is pretty stuttering,
I may have to voice it over some day... This would also take care
of the washing machine sound from downstairs :).

There is no link to the product page yet from the root of the website,
I'll put one after sleeping on it once or twice I suppose.

My greatest pride is not the electronics part, it was significantly
more trivial to make than that for HPGe spectrometry, but the mechanics.
All done in the new mechanical workshop - apart from the gear
wheels, the large brass one was off the shelf and got modified for
the purpose (basically cutting its teeth would have been a bit too
much for the workshop as it is now).
Click to expand...

Who are the customers for TLD readers? People in
the radionuclide industry? Thermal Leak Detectors?


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:59:01 PM UTC-7, Winfield Hill wrote:

Who are the customers for TLD readers? People in
the radionuclide industry? Thermal Leak Detectors?
Click to expand...

Thermoluminescent dosimeters, a kind of radiation badge, X-ray workers, and
nucleide users, send 'em periodically to the safety office to be read. The
pellet goes into an oven, and when baked, it gives off a light pulse proportional
to the 'charge' it got from irradiation.

Customers would be... the radiation safety officers.

Looks like the reader gives lots of info, but not in report format (on the shown
screens). I see lots of setup info on the thermal cycle.

Ideally, the reader should recognize badges by (barcoded) serial numbers,
as well as doing a redout cycle, but this is apparently also a multichannel
analyzer (something fancier than the ones I've dealt with).
 
On 9/7/2019 13:27, whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:59:01 PM UTC-7, Winfield Hill wrote:

Who are the customers for TLD readers? People in
the radionuclide industry? Thermal Leak Detectors?

Thermoluminescent dosimeters, a kind of radiation badge, X-ray workers, and
nucleide users, send 'em periodically to the safety office to be read. The
pellet goes into an oven, and when baked, it gives off a light pulse proportional
to the 'charge' it got from irradiation.

Customers would be... the radiation safety officers.

Looks like the reader gives lots of info, but not in report format (on the shown
screens). I see lots of setup info on the thermal cycle.
Click to expand...

The report comes as text - the almost covered white window - but
it is what I made up as the customer for the first two units was not at
all specific about it. They may yet come with some demands.
Here is an entry:
-------------------

Sample_name: Sample # 2 digital
Measured_on: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 17:32:56 +0300
Acquisition_time: 8.1919184 s
Dwell_time: 1e-3 s
Preheated_at: 150 C
Heated_at: 259 C
Gross_total: 88.108e3 units 0.176216
ROI 1 (247 to 7832): Gross= 87.955e3 units Dose_gross= 0.17591
Dose_net= 0.183496

Sample_name: Sample # 2 analog
Measured_on: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 17:32:56 +0300
Acquisition_time: 8.1919184 s
Dwell_time: 1e-3 s
Preheated_at: 150 C
Heated_at: 259 C
Gross_total: 179.528e3 units 35.905599
ROI 1 (272 to 7573): Gross= 166.529e3 units Dose_gross= 33.305799
Dose_net= 9.9393997
-------------------

Not necessarily sane, I picked at random an entry archived
while I have been toying with the device.
Just the raw data (called units) is valid, there has been no
calibration. (Calibration is done the way it is done for say
gamma spectra, only it is Y axis rather than X axis relevant;
basically it is up to the user to calibrate as detectors can
be very different, not sourced by us etc.).

Obviously if a customer wants a different format we'd easily
do it, all the info is archived, it is only a matter of what
to take from it and how to present it.

Ideally, the reader should recognize badges by (barcoded) serial numbers,
as well as doing a redout cycle, ...
Click to expand...

We may get to that. The customer who bought the first two units
is very close to ordering such an upgrade - which would be minimal
technically and a lot saner than what they have been chasing for
years now with no luck - reading digits rather than barcode.
Probably next few months they will come for that as well but if
they don't I am not going to push it just for the sake of a
demo.

...but this is apparently also a multichannel
analyzer (something fancier than the ones I've dealt with).
Click to expand...

It was just the easiest way for me to do it, the MCA you can
see underneath is a mature product so doing the TLD thing took
a really minor development effort, we could hide its cost within
the entire unit cost (buying any other one from elsewhere would
have been costlier to them and would likely not have had
the dynamic range our device gave them).

Dimiter

======================================================
Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com
======================================================
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/
 
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 10:47:49 AM UTC-7, dp wrote:
On 9/7/2019 13:27, whit3rd wrote:

Customers would be... the radiation safety officers.

Ideally, the reader should recognize badges by (barcoded) serial numbers,
as well as doing a redout cycle, ...

We may get to that. The customer who bought the first two units
is very close to ordering such an upgrade - which would be minimal
technically and a lot saner than what they have been chasing for
years now with no luck - reading digits rather than barcode.
Click to expand...

Yeah, an ugly OCR font would be preferred if a digit-reader were to be used.
As I understand safety-test-document sensitivities, an
operator signoff and maybe some dosimeter batch and/or
manufacture info would be sale-able features.
 
On 9/7/2019 23:22, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 10:47:49 AM UTC-7, dp wrote:
On 9/7/2019 13:27, whit3rd wrote:

Customers would be... the radiation safety officers.

Ideally, the reader should recognize badges by (barcoded) serial numbers,
as well as doing a redout cycle, ...

We may get to that. The customer who bought the first two units
is very close to ordering such an upgrade - which would be minimal
technically and a lot saner than what they have been chasing for
years now with no luck - reading digits rather than barcode.

Yeah, an ugly OCR font would be preferred if a digit-reader were to be used.
Click to expand...

If we are to do it we will use barcode (those new square things
perhaps), reading digits is insane. The only reason they wanted to
go this way was because digits are human readable, and years ago
when they conceived the idea not everyone had a smartphone with
them to read a barcode.

As I understand safety-test-document sensitivities, an
operator signoff and maybe some dosimeter batch and/or
manufacture info would be sale-able features.
Click to expand...

The barcode system I have in mind will take care of the dosimeter
batch. Not so sure I get it about the 'operator signoff', is it
something the TLD reader operator would manually write at the end
of the report? I don't know if I don't understand the meaning because
of my English or because of my lack of respective background....

Thanks for your insights.

Dimiter
 
On a sunny day (Sat, 7 Sep 2019 20:47:43 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff
<dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <ql0qg0$kd3$1@dont-email.me>:

On 9/7/2019 13:27, whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:59:01 PM UTC-7, Winfield Hill wrote:

Who are the customers for TLD readers? People in
the radionuclide industry? Thermal Leak Detectors?

Thermoluminescent dosimeters, a kind of radiation badge, X-ray workers, and
nucleide users, send 'em periodically to the safety office to be read. The
pellet goes into an oven, and when baked, it gives off a light pulse proportional
to the 'charge' it got from irradiation.

Customers would be... the radiation safety officers.

Looks like the reader gives lots of info, but not in report format (on the shown
screens). I see lots of setup info on the thermal cycle.

The report comes as text - the almost covered white window - but
it is what I made up as the customer for the first two units was not at
all specific about it. They may yet come with some demands.
Here is an entry:
-------------------

Sample_name: Sample # 2 digital
Measured_on: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 17:32:56 +0300
Acquisition_time: 8.1919184 s
Dwell_time: 1e-3 s
Preheated_at: 150 C
Heated_at: 259 C
Gross_total: 88.108e3 units 0.176216
ROI 1 (247 to 7832): Gross= 87.955e3 units Dose_gross= 0.17591
Dose_net= 0.183496

Sample_name: Sample # 2 analog
Measured_on: Wed, 4 Sep 2019 17:32:56 +0300
Acquisition_time: 8.1919184 s
Dwell_time: 1e-3 s
Preheated_at: 150 C
Heated_at: 259 C
Gross_total: 179.528e3 units 35.905599
ROI 1 (272 to 7573): Gross= 166.529e3 units Dose_gross= 33.305799
Dose_net= 9.9393997
-------------------

Not necessarily sane, I picked at random an entry archived
while I have been toying with the device.
Just the raw data (called units) is valid, there has been no
calibration. (Calibration is done the way it is done for say
gamma spectra, only it is Y axis rather than X axis relevant;
basically it is up to the user to calibrate as detectors can
be very different, not sourced by us etc.).

Obviously if a customer wants a different format we'd easily
do it, all the info is archived, it is only a matter of what
to take from it and how to present it.


Ideally, the reader should recognize badges by (barcoded) serial numbers,
as well as doing a redout cycle, ...


We may get to that. The customer who bought the first two units
is very close to ordering such an upgrade - which would be minimal
technically and a lot saner than what they have been chasing for
years now with no luck - reading digits rather than barcode.
Probably next few months they will come for that as well but if
they don't I am not going to push it just for the sake of a
demo.

...but this is apparently also a multichannel
analyzer (something fancier than the ones I've dealt with).


It was just the easiest way for me to do it, the MCA you can
see underneath is a mature product so doing the TLD thing took
a really minor development effort, we could hide its cost within
the entire unit cost (buying any other one from elsewhere would
have been costlier to them and would likely not have had
the dynamic range our device gave them).

Dimiter
Click to expand...

For use as 'radiation badge' these work for me:
http://panteltje.com/pub/dosi_meter_PP-4127_IMG_3747.GIF
comes with several pens people can wear:
http://panteltje.com/pub/dosi_meter_PP-4127_pen_IMG_3750.JPG

Its just a charged vane you can read through a windon in each pen
charged by this unit:
http://panteltje.com/pub/dosi_meter_PP4127_circuit_diagram_IMG_3737.GIF
circuit diagram:
http://panteltje.com/pub/dosi_meter_meter_PP-4127_measurement_and_reset_unit_IMG_3734.JPG

when your reactor goes critical, your hexafluoride flows, and you are enriching to 60%
then the vane discharges, and you can see how much your were exposed too...

I payed the stunning amount of lemme see
Total pendosis meetset
pendosisset
1
Excl. BTW: ? 6,20
Incl. BTW: ? 7,50
in the army dump.

Whats the dollar these days? anyways less than 7 USD.

I see it is at 100% discharged, OK lemme check the plutoni...
 
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 2:21:49 PM UTC-7, dp wrote:
On 9/7/2019 23:22, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 10:47:49 AM UTC-7, dp wrote:

As I understand safety-test-document sensitivities, an
operator signoff and maybe some dosimeter batch and/or
manufacture info would be sale-able features.

The barcode system I have in mind will take care of the dosimeter
batch. Not so sure I get it about the 'operator signoff', is it
something the TLD reader operator would manually write at the end
of the report?
Click to expand...

For audit purposes, it's usual for a safety/health check to be associated
with an individual tester (who is known trained for the testing procedure),
and a personal mark goes onto a filed report. Return address on an
e-mail might suffice, though. You just want to know that the operator
was serious and diligent.
 
On 9/9/2019 6:22, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 2:21:49 PM UTC-7, dp wrote:
On 9/7/2019 23:22, whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 10:47:49 AM UTC-7, dp wrote:

As I understand safety-test-document sensitivities, an
operator signoff and maybe some dosimeter batch and/or
manufacture info would be sale-able features.

The barcode system I have in mind will take care of the dosimeter
batch. Not so sure I get it about the 'operator signoff', is it
something the TLD reader operator would manually write at the end
of the report?

For audit purposes, it's usual for a safety/health check to be associated
with an individual tester (who is known trained for the testing procedure),
and a personal mark goes onto a filed report. Return address on an
e-mail might suffice, though. You just want to know that the operator
was serious and diligent.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I get it now. This will be easy to add, and brings to mind that
I can also add some more, like unit serial number and some more of
the settings used with the measurement.
 
On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 4:16:54 AM UTC-7, dp wrote:

I can also add some more, like unit serial number and some more of
the settings used with the measurement.
Click to expand...

I have seen, also, 'date of last calibration' of the test device
on the reports; even a lockout that (at one year) makes it difficult to
perform a test pending a new calibration.
 
On 9/10/2019 7:01, whit3rd wrote:
On Monday, September 9, 2019 at 4:16:54 AM UTC-7, dp wrote:

I can also add some more, like unit serial number and some more of
the settings used with the measurement.

I have seen, also, 'date of last calibration' of the test device
on the reports; even a lockout that (at one year) makes it difficult to
perform a test pending a new calibration.
Click to expand...

Date of last calibration, may be I have seen that, too. Makes sense
though with TLD the main source of calibration errors should be the
dosimeter chips (pills? tablets? don't know the lingo), contamination
etc. But reader calibration is cheap and easy and then putting that
in the report adds credibility/saleability so I may put that as well.

A lockout is somewhat against my gut feeling. I'd do one to sell a
unit of course but only if someone asks for it.
 
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