new airport idea

[Jamie M]

Hi,

Airports are expensive, reinforced runways etc..

Here is an idea: instead of runways, use 10foot deep
water (or antifreeze in winter) and build planes without
landing gear and tires/brakes.

This will prevent fires on crashes, so no firetrucks needed too.

Also saves on cost/weight/maintenance of landing gear/tires,
which are prone to failure sometimes.

The saved weight could go to extra ranged and or reinforcement
required for water landing.

Also now flying over the ocean is less dangerous, so some
flights may route more direct.

Also for unplanned landings, there may be more suitable water
bodies than runways for aircraft.

cheers,
Jamie

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-07-11 7:20 p.m., Jamie M wrote:

Hi,

Airports are expensive, reinforced runways etc..

Here is an idea: instead of runways, use 10foot deep
water (or antifreeze in winter) and build planes without
landing gear and tires/brakes.

This will prevent fires on crashes, so no firetrucks needed too.

Also saves on cost/weight/maintenance of landing gear/tires,
which are prone to failure sometimes.

The saved weight could go to extra ranged and or reinforcement
required for water landing.

Also now flying over the ocean is less dangerous, so some
flights may route more direct.

Also for unplanned landings, there may be more suitable water
bodies than runways for aircraft.

cheers,
Jamie

Also these airplanes would all be easily converted into
water bombers (seems they will be valuable from more forest fires),
and could even use the runway water if necessary.

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-07-11 7:30 p.m., Jamie M wrote:

On 2019-07-11 7:20 p.m., Jamie M wrote:
Hi,

Airports are expensive, reinforced runways etc..

Here is an idea: instead of runways, use 10foot deep
water (or antifreeze in winter) and build planes without
landing gear and tires/brakes.

This will prevent fires on crashes, so no firetrucks needed too.

Also saves on cost/weight/maintenance of landing gear/tires,
which are prone to failure sometimes.

The saved weight could go to extra ranged and or reinforcement
required for water landing.

Also now flying over the ocean is less dangerous, so some
flights may route more direct.

Also for unplanned landings, there may be more suitable water
bodies than runways for aircraft.

cheers,
Jamie



Also these airplanes would all be easily converted into
water bombers (seems they will be valuable from more forest fires),
and could even use the runway water if necessary.

One other benefit, above wing engines can have larger diameter,
more efficient fans than the obsolete designs under the wing.

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 10:20:25 PM UTC-4, Jamie M wrote:

Hi,

Airports are expensive, reinforced runways etc..

Here is an idea: instead of runways, use 10foot deep
water (or antifreeze in winter) and build planes without
landing gear and tires/brakes.

This will prevent fires on crashes, so no firetrucks needed too.

Also saves on cost/weight/maintenance of landing gear/tires,
which are prone to failure sometimes.

The saved weight could go to extra ranged and or reinforcement
required for water landing.

Also now flying over the ocean is less dangerous, so some
flights may route more direct.

Also for unplanned landings, there may be more suitable water
bodies than runways for aircraft.

Obviously you are not aware of the huge excess drag created by seaplanes. I would also point out that they can't land in the open ocean because conditions are not always suitable. A plane can't land in at all rough seas. They land near shores of lakes and such more than large, open water with large waves.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-07-11 8:07 p.m., Rick C wrote:

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 10:20:25 PM UTC-4, Jamie M wrote:
Hi,

Airports are expensive, reinforced runways etc..

Here is an idea: instead of runways, use 10foot deep
water (or antifreeze in winter) and build planes without
landing gear and tires/brakes.

This will prevent fires on crashes, so no firetrucks needed too.

Also saves on cost/weight/maintenance of landing gear/tires,
which are prone to failure sometimes.

The saved weight could go to extra ranged and or reinforcement
required for water landing.

Also now flying over the ocean is less dangerous, so some
flights may route more direct.

Also for unplanned landings, there may be more suitable water
bodies than runways for aircraft.

Obviously you are not aware of the huge excess drag created by seaplanes. I would also point out that they can't land in the open ocean because conditions are not always suitable. A plane can't land in at all rough seas. They land near shores of lakes and such more than large, open water with large waves.

To solve the excess drag, if it is a problem, differential flow water
runways with pumped water flow in opposite directions for the time
required for takeoff and optionally soft landing. 100MPH water flowrate
should be doable, and the flow energy can be somewhat regenerated by the
same pumps.

cheers,
Jamie

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-07-11 9:53 p.m., DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:3c20c4ca-1645-44e6-b4e9-5fc4df29d22d@googlegroups.com:

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 10:20:25 PM UTC-4, Jamie M wrote:
Hi,

Airports are expensive, reinforced runways etc..

Here is an idea: instead of runways, use 10foot deep
water (or antifreeze in winter) and build planes without
landing gear and tires/brakes.

This will prevent fires on crashes, so no firetrucks needed too.

Also saves on cost/weight/maintenance of landing gear/tires,
which are prone to failure sometimes.

The saved weight could go to extra ranged and or reinforcement
required for water landing.

Also now flying over the ocean is less dangerous, so some
flights may route more direct.

Also for unplanned landings, there may be more suitable water
bodies than runways for aircraft.

Obviously you are not aware of the huge excess drag created by
seaplanes. I would also point out that they can't land in the
open ocean because conditions are not always suitable. A plane
can't land in at all rough seas. They land near shores of lakes
and such more than large, open water with large waves.


Hey... I know! We should place a 4 foot deep pool 30 yards wide
right down the edge of the runways.

Better than sand.

what is the purpose? I think it is easiest to just flood the whole
airport and have underwater LED runway lights.

cheers,
Jamie





>

 

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in
news:3c20c4ca-1645-44e6-b4e9-5fc4df29d22d@googlegroups.com:

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 10:20:25 PM UTC-4, Jamie M wrote:
Hi,

Airports are expensive, reinforced runways etc..

Here is an idea: instead of runways, use 10foot deep
water (or antifreeze in winter) and build planes without
landing gear and tires/brakes.

This will prevent fires on crashes, so no firetrucks needed too.

Also saves on cost/weight/maintenance of landing gear/tires,
which are prone to failure sometimes.

The saved weight could go to extra ranged and or reinforcement
required for water landing.

Also now flying over the ocean is less dangerous, so some
flights may route more direct.

Also for unplanned landings, there may be more suitable water
bodies than runways for aircraft.

Obviously you are not aware of the huge excess drag created by
seaplanes. I would also point out that they can't land in the
open ocean because conditions are not always suitable. A plane
can't land in at all rough seas. They land near shores of lakes
and such more than large, open water with large waves.

Hey... I know! We should place a 4 foot deep pool 30 yards wide
right down the edge of the runways.

Better than sand.

 

And how are we supposed to land in Cleveland in the Winter?

S.

 

>And how are we supposed to land in Cleveland in the Winter?

That's the best part--no one would ever suffer that horrible fate again!

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

sroberts6328@gmail.com wrote in news:01485b6f-31a7-459e-9c62-
c760cf7cfe38@googlegroups.com:

And how are we supposed to land in Cleveland in the Winter?

S.

The city of Kalamazoo has heated sidewalks and after a snow, they are
all clean and dry.

Heated runway pools.

 

[George Herold]

On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 7:46:28 AM UTC-4, srober...@gmail.com wrote:

And how are we supposed to land in Cleveland in the Winter?

S.

Remove the 'boat' from the bottom and attach ice skates or skis.

GH

 

[George Herold]

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 10:20:25 PM UTC-4, Jamie M wrote:

Hi,

Airports are expensive, reinforced runways etc..

Here is an idea: instead of runways, use 10foot deep
water (or antifreeze in winter) and build planes without
landing gear and tires/brakes.

This will prevent fires on crashes, so no firetrucks needed too.

Also saves on cost/weight/maintenance of landing gear/tires,
which are prone to failure sometimes.

The saved weight could go to extra ranged and or reinforcement
required for water landing.

Also now flying over the ocean is less dangerous, so some
flights may route more direct.

Also for unplanned landings, there may be more suitable water
bodies than runways for aircraft.

cheers,
Jamie

How big of a 'boat' do you need to float a 747?
GH

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 11:53:37 AM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:

On Friday, July 12, 2019 at 7:46:28 AM UTC-4, srober...@gmail.com wrote:
And how are we supposed to land in Cleveland in the Winter?

S.

Remove the 'boat' from the bottom and attach ice skates or skis.

While flying from Florida...

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-07-12 9:53 a.m., Jamie M wrote:

On 2019-07-12 4:46 a.m., sroberts6328@gmail.com wrote:
And how are we supposed to land in Cleveland in the Winter?

S.



Hi,

I suggested antifreeze, which could also deice
the airplanes, but maybe a better solution such as
recessed runways to have geothermal heating effects,
with low sloped ramps at the ends as well as possibly
impact resistant small rubber/plastic hollow balls that
float on the water for a thermal insulation layer.

The floating hollow plastic balls are a bad idea as they
would not work with either flowing water or high speed
take off. So antifreeze/saltwater and geothermal heating,
as long as the antifreeze wasn't too viscous for taking off.

cheers,
Jamie

cheers,
Jamie

 

[Tom Del Rosso]

pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:

And how are we supposed to land in Cleveland in the Winter?

That's the best part--no one would ever suffer that horrible fate
again!

The Cleveland Orchestra is famous for their Christmas concerts. That's
a good enough reason to fill it with Prestone. Then the amphibious 747s
can land with their great big pontoons.

But why save money on runway maintenance and not on roads? We shoudl
also flood the roads and make a giant Venice.

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-07-12 8:51 a.m., George Herold wrote:

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 10:20:25 PM UTC-4, Jamie M wrote:
Hi,

Airports are expensive, reinforced runways etc..

Here is an idea: instead of runways, use 10foot deep
water (or antifreeze in winter) and build planes without
landing gear and tires/brakes.

This will prevent fires on crashes, so no firetrucks needed too.

Also saves on cost/weight/maintenance of landing gear/tires,
which are prone to failure sometimes.

The saved weight could go to extra ranged and or reinforcement
required for water landing.

Also now flying over the ocean is less dangerous, so some
flights may route more direct.

Also for unplanned landings, there may be more suitable water
bodies than runways for aircraft.

cheers,
Jamie

How big of a 'boat' do you need to float a 747?
GH

If you want to land a 747 on a boat, SpaceX is already doing
something similar for landing the upper stage fairing on a boat,
seems like a similar problem except higher speeds involved.

Also if there are high speed boats on the airport runways they
could both catch and launch the airplanes, cable driven high
speed boats likely, relying on software to automatically land
the airplanes.

cheers,
Jamie

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-07-12 8:51 a.m., George Herold wrote:

On Thursday, July 11, 2019 at 10:20:25 PM UTC-4, Jamie M wrote:
Hi,

Airports are expensive, reinforced runways etc..

Here is an idea: instead of runways, use 10foot deep
water (or antifreeze in winter) and build planes without
landing gear and tires/brakes.

This will prevent fires on crashes, so no firetrucks needed too.

Also saves on cost/weight/maintenance of landing gear/tires,
which are prone to failure sometimes.

The saved weight could go to extra ranged and or reinforcement
required for water landing.

Also now flying over the ocean is less dangerous, so some
flights may route more direct.

Also for unplanned landings, there may be more suitable water
bodies than runways for aircraft.

cheers,
Jamie

How big of a 'boat' do you need to float a 747?
GH

Hi,

A 747 will float itself after putting the engines on top, and putting
a couple layers of honeycomb composite up to the waterline.

cheers,
Jamie

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-07-12 4:46 a.m., sroberts6328@gmail.com wrote:

And how are we supposed to land in Cleveland in the Winter?

S.

Hi,

I suggested antifreeze, which could also deice
the airplanes, but maybe a better solution such as
recessed runways to have geothermal heating effects,
with low sloped ramps at the ends as well as possibly
impact resistant small rubber/plastic hollow balls that
float on the water for a thermal insulation layer.

cheers,
Jamie

 

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 11:57:39 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

Jamie M wrote:
On 2019-07-11 7:30 p.m., Jamie M wrote:
On 2019-07-11 7:20 p.m., Jamie M wrote:
Hi,

Airports are expensive, reinforced runways etc..

Here is an idea: instead of runways, use 10foot deep
water (or antifreeze in winter) and build planes without
landing gear and tires/brakes.

This will prevent fires on crashes, so no firetrucks needed too.

Also saves on cost/weight/maintenance of landing gear/tires,
which are prone to failure sometimes.

The saved weight could go to extra ranged and or reinforcement
required for water landing.

Also now flying over the ocean is less dangerous, so some
flights may route more direct.

Also for unplanned landings, there may be more suitable water
bodies than runways for aircraft.

cheers,
Jamie



Also these airplanes would all be easily converted into
water bombers (seems they will be valuable from more forest fires),
and could even use the runway water if necessary.



One other benefit, above wing engines can have larger diameter,
more efficient fans than the obsolete designs under the wing.

Why not in-wing engines as in DH Comet ?

Call me stupid.
A wing engine AFAIK is not limited in size with regard to
"above"/"below".
Obvious limit is placement cannot be closer than radius.

Practically all flying boats have been high wing constructions. One
severe problem with flying boats is protecting the engines from
corrosive seawater. Using high wing in wing propeller engines helps a
lot.

The only jet engine powered flying boat that I have heard about is the
Be-200 with jet engines above the wing and quite far back, so the
engines are quite well protected against seawater.

 

[Jamie M]

On 2019-07-12 10:01 a.m., Tom Del Rosso wrote:

pcdhobbs@gmail.com wrote:
And how are we supposed to land in Cleveland in the Winter?

That's the best part--no one would ever suffer that horrible fate
again!

The Cleveland Orchestra is famous for their Christmas concerts. That's
a good enough reason to fill it with Prestone. Then the amphibious 747s
can land with their great big pontoons.

But why save money on runway maintenance and not on roads? We shoudl
also flood the roads and make a giant Venice.

Three problems with that:

1. Atlantis may have a copyright

2. Only Tesla cars will work (at least according to Elon Musk)

3. The benefit from decreased maintenance is outweighed by the
decreased transportation efficiency I think. For an airport the
transportation efficiency of the runway can be low as it is a small
fraction of the overall travel distance, but for a interstate highway
you will need a way to get past the higher fluid resistance, maybe
hydrofoil vehicles? Also the winter freezing..

cheers,
Jamie