Need to find an auto-hi-speed 8 way switch

[Gobagoo]

Im working on a burning man project, and need to build or find an 8
way switch that can distribute a single input, at speaker power level,
to 8 different speaker outputs, one at a time in sequence with a user
adjustable speed (~0 - 1200 Hz?).

I've already come up with a mechanical switching system, using a 12v
cooling fan motor speed adjusted by a rheostat that turns and
sequentially triggers an array of momentary micro-switches. However, I
think the mechanical "clicking" and the interference noise that's
generated by the switches is going to be way too loud.

Oh yeah, the whole thing has to run off a 12v power source, that is, a
deep cycle marine battery (90 amp hours), so Im looking to minimize
power consumption so the contraption will run for a while without
sucking my battery dry. The cooling fans use almost .6 amps apiece.
Hope there's a better alternative. Ultimately I want there to be two
of these switching systems in parallel sending their output to the
same set of 8 speakers, but be independantly adjustable (so we can
play with the harmonic crazyness, especially if the second switcher is
reversed and going the opposite way)

Does anyone have any ideas? I've been trying to puzzle this one out
for a while. Im not an electrical engineer, more of an electrical
hacker... but I can learn!!! I hope to find the most simple, and
durable design possible.

Thanks!

 

[Luhan Monat]

Gobagoo wrote:

Im working on a burning man project, and need to build or find an 8
way switch that can distribute a single input, at speaker power level,
to 8 different speaker outputs, one at a time in sequence with a user
adjustable speed (~0 - 1200 Hz?).

I've already come up with a mechanical switching system, using a 12v
cooling fan motor speed adjusted by a rheostat that turns and
sequentially triggers an array of momentary micro-switches. However, I
think the mechanical "clicking" and the interference noise that's
generated by the switches is going to be way too loud.

Oh yeah, the whole thing has to run off a 12v power source, that is, a
deep cycle marine battery (90 amp hours), so Im looking to minimize
power consumption so the contraption will run for a while without
sucking my battery dry. The cooling fans use almost .6 amps apiece.
Hope there's a better alternative. Ultimately I want there to be two
of these switching systems in parallel sending their output to the
same set of 8 speakers, but be independantly adjustable (so we can
play with the harmonic crazyness, especially if the second switcher is
reversed and going the opposite way)

Does anyone have any ideas? I've been trying to puzzle this one out
for a while. Im not an electrical engineer, more of an electrical
hacker... but I can learn!!! I hope to find the most simple, and
durable design possible.

Thanks!

Hi,

I may be useful to back up a step or two here and explain just what this
whole thing is supposed to do. That may lead to a more usable solution.

--
Luhan Monat: Luhan Knows at Yahoo dot Com
http://members.cox.net/berniekm
"The Future is not what it used to be."

 

[Gobagoo]

Hi,

I may be useful to back up a step or two here and explain just what this
whole thing is supposed to do. That may lead to a more usable solution.

Sure,

This is meant essentially to be an audio toy for the Burning Man
festival. The idea I'm shooting for here is this:

8 speakers in a circle, about 10 feet equidistant from a central
point, facing inwards, towards the user at the center with the
controls.

At the central controls would be a system of distributing an audio
signal to the circular speaker array in a sequential, rotating,
adjustable speed manner. Ideally, I would like two distinct audio
signals to be available, one spinnging in one direction, the second
spinning in the other direction (or possibly reversable directions
too). Through one audio channel would be an ambiance musical
collection of random stuff off an MP3 player. On the other audio
channel would be the output of a collection of a bunch of sound
generating nick-nacks and junky kids toys, messed-up casio pianos,
etc... that would be available to play with and make noise. The speed
of the spinning audio channels would also be adjustable from close to
0 cycles/second (hz) to some upper limit towards where it no longer
sounds like distinct individual speakers (unknown speed as of yet, Im
guessing something like 30 - 60 Hz.

In addition, I want the whole thing to be triggered on only when
someone walks up to it and engages it, otherwise it would continue to
drain the battery while no one is around... it needs to last a few
days in the desert before a recharge. Was thinking of some kind of
power relay triggered by a switch in a small foot panel thing when the
user steps up to use the controls, like maybe a bathroom scale. That
would turn on a couple of small 12v lights, or possibly LED light
arrays to illuminate the controls at night. When idle, the
contraption would have a blinking stobe on top to attract attention
and keep people from riding their bike into it in the dark.

So far I envisioned using a mechanical switching system with the afore
mentioned cooling fan motors speed adjusted by a rheostat (still
rotate too fast I think even close to stall speed ~4.5v) triggering an
array of small momentary reed switchs (which I think are too
electrically noisy). These switches would distribute a speaker level
signal from a single amplifier to the eight speakers, with the left
channel going clockwise, and the right channel going counterclockwise.
From what people have been telling me on online forums, a solid state
IC approach switching line level signals, distributed to 8 discrete
amps would be better.

I also have an assortment of other 12v appliances, such as a car alarm
siren, a 12v black light, and some other assorted lights and junk,
including the cooling fans, and relays, etc..

Hope that helps make sense of the project goals..... thanks again for
any advice you guys might have!

-Gabe

 

[Gobagoo]

Hi,

I may be useful to back up a step or two here and explain just what this
whole thing is supposed to do. That may lead to a more usable solution.

Sure,

This is meant essentially to be an audio toy for the Burning Man
festival. The idea I'm shooting for here is this:

8 speakers in a circle, about 10 feet equidistant from a central
point, facing inwards, towards the user at the center with the
controls.

At the central controls would be a system of distributing an audio
signal to the circular speaker array in a sequential, rotating,
adjustable speed manner. Ideally, I would like two distinct audio
signals to be available, one spinnging in one direction, the second
spinning in the other direction (or possibly reversable directions
too). Through one audio channel would be an ambiance musical
collection of random stuff off an MP3 player. On the other audio
channel would be the output of a collection of a bunch of sound
generating nick-nacks and junky kids toys, messed-up casio pianos,
etc... that would be available to play with and make noise. The speed
of the spinning audio channels would also be adjustable from close to
0 cycles/second (hz) to some upper limit towards where it no longer
sounds like distinct individual speakers (unknown speed as of yet, Im
guessing something like 30 - 60 Hz.

In addition, I want the whole thing to be triggered on only when
someone walks up to it and engages it, otherwise it would continue to
drain the battery while no one is around... it needs to last a few
days in the desert before a recharge. Was thinking of some kind of
power relay triggered by a switch in a small foot panel thing when the
user steps up to use the controls, like maybe a bathroom scale. That
would turn on a couple of small 12v lights, or possibly LED light
arrays to illuminate the controls at night. When idle, the
contraption would have a blinking stobe on top to attract attention
and keep people from riding their bike into it in the dark.

So far I envisioned using a mechanical switching system with the afore
mentioned cooling fan motors speed adjusted by a rheostat (still
rotate too fast I think even close to stall speed ~4.5v) triggering an
array of small momentary reed switchs (which I think are too
electrically noisy). These switches would distribute a speaker level
signal from a single amplifier to the eight speakers, with the left
channel going clockwise, and the right channel going counterclockwise.
From what people have been telling me on online forums, a solid state
IC approach switching line level signals, distributed to 8 discrete
amps would be better.

I also have an assortment of other 12v appliances, such as a car alarm
siren, a 12v black light, and some other assorted lights and junk,
including the cooling fans, and relays, etc..

Hope that helps make sense of the project goals..... thanks again for
any advice you guys might have!

-Gabe

 

[Tim Auton]

gobagoo_22@hotmail.com (Gobagoo) wrote:
[snip]

This is meant essentially to be an audio toy for the Burning Man
festival. The idea I'm shooting for here is this:

8 speakers in a circle, about 10 feet equidistant from a central
point, facing inwards, towards the user at the center with the
controls.

At the central controls would be a system of distributing an audio
signal to the circular speaker array in a sequential, rotating,
adjustable speed manner. Ideally, I would like two distinct audio
signals to be available, one spinnging in one direction, the second
spinning in the other direction (or possibly reversable directions
too).

PC with a 7.1 soundcard? You might have to write the control software
and build the controller yourself though.


Tim
--
Love is a travelator.

 

[John Miller]

Gobagoo wrote:

This is meant essentially to be an audio toy for the Burning Man
festival. The idea I'm shooting for here is this:

8 speakers in a circle, about 10 feet equidistant from a central
point, facing inwards, towards the user at the center with the
controls.

Just a thought (or maybe a complication

If you fade (as opposed to hard switch) between speakers, you could do it
with four, 90 degrees apart.

--
John Miller
Email address: domain, n4vu.com; username, jsm
Surplus (FSoT):
F. Besson International (800) trumpet, Bb, silver
New Conn V1 double trumpet case, no logo
Tektronix 465B oscilloscope

 

[Soeren]

Hi Gabe,

8 speakers in a circle, about 10 feet equidistant from a central
point, facing inwards, towards the user at the center with the
controls.

At the central controls would be a system of distributing an audio
signal to the circular speaker array in a sequential, rotating,
adjustable speed manner. Ideally, I would like two distinct audio
signals to be available, one spinnging in one direction, the second
spinning in the other direction (or possibly reversable directions
too).
[Snip]
From what people have been telling me on online forums, a solid
state IC approach switching line level signals, distributed to 8
discrete amps would be better.

I have to agree, but I think you would need to fade out during the
shift, to avoid cliks and pops anyway.

If you use two analog multiplexers (as they are called), one can control
the music and the other the sound fx - with variable speed clocked
up/down counters to control each, you can pretty much get the sound
patterns you care for.


--
Regards,
Soeren

* If it puzzles you dear... Reverse engineer *
New forum: <URL:http://www.ElektronikTeknolog.dk/cgi-bin/SPEED/>

 

[Bob Masta]

On 2 Jun 2004 12:28:56 -0700, gobagoo_22@hotmail.com (Gobagoo) wrote:

Im working on a burning man project, and need to build or find an 8
way switch that can distribute a single input, at speaker power level,
to 8 different speaker outputs, one at a time in sequence with a user
adjustable speed (~0 - 1200 Hz?).

I've already come up with a mechanical switching system, using a 12v
cooling fan motor speed adjusted by a rheostat that turns and
sequentially triggers an array of momentary micro-switches. However, I
think the mechanical "clicking" and the interference noise that's
generated by the switches is going to be way too loud.

Oh yeah, the whole thing has to run off a 12v power source, that is, a
deep cycle marine battery (90 amp hours), so Im looking to minimize
power consumption so the contraption will run for a while without
sucking my battery dry. The cooling fans use almost .6 amps apiece.
Hope there's a better alternative. Ultimately I want there to be two
of these switching systems in parallel sending their output to the
same set of 8 speakers, but be independantly adjustable (so we can
play with the harmonic crazyness, especially if the second switcher is
reversed and going the opposite way)

Does anyone have any ideas? I've been trying to puzzle this one out
for a while. Im not an electrical engineer, more of an electrical
hacker... but I can learn!!! I hope to find the most simple, and
durable design possible.

Thanks!

The clicking is going to be present with electronic
switches as well, simply due to the dicontinuities in
the waveform. You will need to fade in and out to
avoid that, which means you are probably better
off doing it at low levels and using separate
power amps for each channel.

Fader mechanisms are many and varied. You can
use incandescent lights and CDS photocells for a
fairly simple system, with the internal time constants
of the bulbs and photocells providing the fades,
possibly with an RC added to the bulb drivers. (In
which case you could use LEDs instead.) The CDS
cells are slow-responding variable resistance, so
just use them in voltage dividers to the various amp
inputs.

As usual, you can get a *lot* more sophisticated
if you feel the need.



Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com

 

[Robert C Monsen]

"Gobagoo" <gobagoo_22@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9d0f3436.0406040831.2a1a78f4@posting.google.com...

Hi,

I may be useful to back up a step or two here and explain just
what this
whole thing is supposed to do. That may lead to a more usable
solution.

Sure,

This is meant essentially to be an audio toy for the Burning Man
festival. The idea I'm shooting for here is this:

8 speakers in a circle, about 10 feet equidistant from a central
point, facing inwards, towards the user at the center with the
controls.

At the central controls would be a system of distributing an audio
signal to the circular speaker array in a sequential, rotating,
adjustable speed manner. Ideally, I would like two distinct audio
signals to be available, one spinnging in one direction, the second
spinning in the other direction (or possibly reversable directions
too). Through one audio channel would be an ambiance musical
collection of random stuff off an MP3 player. On the other audio
channel would be the output of a collection of a bunch of sound
generating nick-nacks and junky kids toys, messed-up casio pianos,
etc... that would be available to play with and make noise. The
speed
of the spinning audio channels would also be adjustable from close
to
0 cycles/second (hz) to some upper limit towards where it no longer
sounds like distinct individual speakers (unknown speed as of yet,
Im
guessing something like 30 - 60 Hz.

In addition, I want the whole thing to be triggered on only when
someone walks up to it and engages it, otherwise it would continue
to
drain the battery while no one is around... it needs to last a few
days in the desert before a recharge. Was thinking of some kind of
power relay triggered by a switch in a small foot panel thing when
the
user steps up to use the controls, like maybe a bathroom scale.
That
would turn on a couple of small 12v lights, or possibly LED light
arrays to illuminate the controls at night. When idle, the
contraption would have a blinking stobe on top to attract attention
and keep people from riding their bike into it in the dark.

So far I envisioned using a mechanical switching system with the
afore
mentioned cooling fan motors speed adjusted by a rheostat (still
rotate too fast I think even close to stall speed ~4.5v) triggering
an
array of small momentary reed switchs (which I think are too
electrically noisy). These switches would distribute a speaker
level
signal from a single amplifier to the eight speakers, with the left
channel going clockwise, and the right channel going
counterclockwise.
From what people have been telling me on online forums, a solid
state
IC approach switching line level signals, distributed to 8 discrete
amps would be better.

I also have an assortment of other 12v appliances, such as a car
alarm
siren, a 12v black light, and some other assorted lights and junk,
including the cooling fans, and relays, etc..

Hope that helps make sense of the project goals..... thanks again
for
any advice you guys might have!

-Gabe

One way to do this which might not be too expensive would be to use
digital potentiometers. The dallas DS1866 is a digital pot which has a
3 pin parallel control input, yielding 8 possible settings of the pot.
Using some kind of counter circuit, you could program the settings for
these, and use their outputs as inputs to your 8 separate power amps.

To do two channels rotating in different directions, you would have to
have two sets (meaning 16 of these DS1866s,) each pair of which would
be followed by a circuit to add the outputs. Then, the final output
would be the input to the power amplifier for that speaker. The
digital logic design is a bit hairy, I think. You would have to
present the control pins on the different digital pots with a control
stream looking like ...,0,0,0,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0,0,0,0,...
to bring up and fade out the volume. The same control stream would go
to the other speaker controls, timeshifted for the rotational effect.
The 8 different levels might cause pops on the speakers when they were
changed, I don't know.

There are digital pots which have more settings, but you would have to
program them with a microcontroller using some kind of 3 pin
interface. Actually, that's probably the easiest way to do this; use a
set of maxim DS1801s to roll the volume signal through a set of 8
cascaded digital pots. You need two sets per channel, so you'd need 8
total DS1801s (they have two pots each), and 6 control output pins on
a microcontroller to run them. You could also program this array using
output pins on a parallel port of a PC. However, the microcontroller
would be far lower power, which is an important consideration for you,
I think.

Again, the outputs of corresponding 'channel' outputs would go to
different opamps, set up in an analog adding configuration, so you
could add the two channels together. The output of each of the
addition modules would be to the power amp for that speaker, which
could be as simple as MAX9716, a single channel power amp. You'll want
to keep it lower power to conserve battery power anyway.

If you were brave, you could probably hack up discrete digital logic
to do the three wire control without using a microcontroller; however,
a microcontroller would be the easiest thing. Using the
microcontroller (or PC), you could easily experiment with various
kinds of rolling motions, delays, etc, quite easily.

Regards,
Bob Monsen

 

[Gobagoo]

ok... so assuming I'm going to take the non-complex approach to this
problem, and use a 555 timer RC controlled -> counter -> 8 channel
multiplexer, other than the datasheets, how would I go about actually
getting some kind of schematic together? such as example schematics
that use these chips together, or seperately.... Im capable of hooking
it all up, but the datasheets are pretty dense with technical jargon.

I suppose the best thing to do would be to get the chips in hand and
hook 'em up to a breadboard and see if they work, eh?

 

[Bob Masta]

On 11 Jun 2004 15:19:41 -0700, gobagoo_22@hotmail.com (Gobagoo) wrote:

ok... so assuming I'm going to take the non-complex approach to this
problem, and use a 555 timer RC controlled -> counter -> 8 channel
multiplexer, other than the datasheets, how would I go about actually
getting some kind of schematic together? such as example schematics
that use these chips together, or seperately.... Im capable of hooking
it all up, but the datasheets are pretty dense with technical jargon.

I suppose the best thing to do would be to get the chips in hand and
hook 'em up to a breadboard and see if they work, eh?

Note that you will still have the clicking with this method, since you
will still have abrupt transitions in the waveform. You will also
need a power amp for each channel, since the multiplexer will
only handle low-level signals. So the upshot is that if you can
tolerate the clicking you already have with a rotary switch, you
may want to stick with that... it won't improve with the electronic
multiplexer, and it would cost a lot more. If you want to get rid
of the clicking, you have to control the rise/fall times of each
transition.



Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com

 

[John Miller]

Bob Masta wrote:

Note that you will still have the clicking with this method, since you
will still have abrupt transitions in the waveform. You will also
need a power amp for each channel, since the multiplexer will
only handle low-level signals. So the upshot is that if you can
tolerate the clicking you already have with a rotary switch, you
may want to stick with that... it won't improve with the electronic
multiplexer, and it would cost a lot more. If you want to get rid
of the clicking, you have to control the rise/fall times of each
transition.

What Bob said.

I suppose this horse is pretty well beaten by now, but I'd sure use linear
volume control at line level into the amps, as opposed to hard switching of
speakers. And with smooth modulation of volume, you could probably get
exactly the effect you want with only four speakers (two stereo amps would
do the trick).

--
John Miller
Email address: domain, n4vu.com; username, jsm

In Brooklyn, we had such great pennant races, it made the World Series just
something that came later.
-Walter O'Malley, Dodgers owner