Need help with wireless video. (thanks)

[amer]

Hello everyone.

I need your advice for purchasing a small wireless video camera with a
built-in transmitter. Main features I am looking for are :

1- VERY high resolution, (comparable to modern Sony camcorders).
2- Transmitter which can operate out of its "line-of-sight" also.
3- Transmitter which can pass signal thru walls. (not mandatory)
4- Moderately long range (e.g. 300 meters).
5- Video to be recorded on a suitable device for later playback on TV.
6- Long battery life (~6 hours)

I have been browsing the internet but cant select the right model as I
dont know much about electronics. Currently I have found one with '570
lines of horizontal resolution'. Is this comparable to a normal
camcorder? The website is :

http://www.nctc.com/~dfluehe/

What frequency, MHz or GHz, transmitter would be right for me? They
start from 500 Mz and go upto 2.4 Ghz. Some, mentioned as for 'CCTV'
equipment, go right upto 10 and 24 GHz also!

How can I record the video for later playback on a normal home-TV?
What type of
device can I employ? Also what instrument would receive signal from
the transmitter? Do I need to purchase an antenna or an amplifier
also?

Thanks very much for any help you can provide.

Regards,
Amer

 

[the Wiz]

Look for a receiver with S-Video output and a VCR with S-Video input. This has
higher resolution than "standard" video.

You need a transmitter-receiver pair that is compatible: same frequency, same
modulation type, etc.

The receiver will have a video output that can be connected to the video input
of the VCR.

For reliable long range communications, you may need a directional antenna at
one or both ends. These will effectively limit the transmission to line of
sight - you won't be able to move the transmitting or receiving antennas after
they are aligned..

The resolution of final image is limited by each piece in the path: camera,
transmitter, receiver, VCR, video tape, display.

If you're using a standard TV for display, you may not see much difference
between cameras with different resolutions. If you're using a "monitor" quality
display, you will be able to see the difference, assuming the resolution isn't
lost in the RF chain.



seymoria@yahoo.com (amer) wrote:

Hello everyone.

I need your advice for purchasing a small wireless video camera with a
built-in transmitter. Main features I am looking for are :

1- VERY high resolution, (comparable to modern Sony camcorders).
2- Transmitter which can operate out of its "line-of-sight" also.
3- Transmitter which can pass signal thru walls. (not mandatory)
4- Moderately long range (e.g. 300 meters).
5- Video to be recorded on a suitable device for later playback on TV.
6- Long battery life (~6 hours)

I have been browsing the internet but cant select the right model as I
dont know much about electronics. Currently I have found one with '570
lines of horizontal resolution'. Is this comparable to a normal
camcorder? The website is :

http://www.nctc.com/~dfluehe/

What frequency, MHz or GHz, transmitter would be right for me? They
start from 500 Mz and go upto 2.4 Ghz. Some, mentioned as for 'CCTV'
equipment, go right upto 10 and 24 GHz also!

How can I record the video for later playback on a normal home-TV?
What type of
device can I employ? Also what instrument would receive signal from
the transmitter? Do I need to purchase an antenna or an amplifier
also?

Thanks very much for any help you can provide.

Regards,
Amer

More about me: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/
VB3 source code: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/vbsource.html
VB6 source code: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/vb6source.html
VB6 - MySQL how to: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/mysql.html
Drivers for Pablo graphics tablet and JamCam cameras: http://home.earthlink.net/~mwbt/
johnecarter atat mindspring dotdot com. Fix the obvious to reply by email.

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 12:57:30 -0400, the Wiz <look@message.body> Gave
us:


snipped fairly good application analysis...

I need your advice for purchasing a small wireless video camera with a
built-in transmitter. Main features I am looking for are :

1- VERY high resolution, (comparable to modern Sony camcorders).

Not cheap.

2- Transmitter which can operate out of its "line-of-sight" also.

It wouldn't be worth its salt if it couldn't in your 300 meter
realm. You want the low frequency stuff for that, not the GHz stuff.

3- Transmitter which can pass signal thru walls. (not mandatory)

It's out there, believe me.

4- Moderately long range (e.g. 300 meters).

You want that in stereo? How about a data comm link as well?

5- Video to be recorded on a suitable device for later playback on TV.

That's you end. You do what you want with it after you get it.

6- Long battery life (~6 hours)

Actually, that is your end as well. Battery belts aren't cheap, but
are available. The battery packs that are offered bellow seem quite
sufficient as well, however.

I have been browsing the internet but cant select the right model as I
dont know much about electronics. Currently I have found one with '570
lines of horizontal resolution'. Is this comparable to a normal
camcorder? The website is :

snipped link

Fly by night lameness. Lo res at best.

The product you want is probably WAY outside your ability to afford
it. The units you describe are not little PC cam playtoys from the
computer store, they are professional grade equipment.

You sound as if you think the size of the box equates with price.
It does not. The level of quality you are demanding is nowhere near
normal PC techy consumer level crap... Just so you know.

The degree of "resolution" you are pining for will cost you, if you
ever get it at all. If you are serious, you can get it all...

www.avalonrf.com

It does get any better than that place. Custom solutions are
available. Cop cars got 'em. Custom roof mount central unit, 4 cam
capability... 9" flip down monitor...

 

[DarkMatter]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 11:23:44 -0700, DarkMatter
<DarkMatter@thebarattheendoftheuniverse.org> Gave us:

It does get any better than that place.

That should be "doesn't". Damned spell checkers.

 

[amer]

Dear Friend.

Thanks a lot for the helpful information.

I have inspected my VCR and it has an Audio-Video (A/V) IN and A/V
OUT. It also has an RF IN and RF OUT. Is S-video different from these
two? What is the Standard video?

Also, transmitters come in many ranges from 500 Mhz upto 2.4 GHz and
also 10 and 24 GHz for FMTV. Can you advise which one I should buy?

I cannot install visible directional antennas on my transmitter or
reciever, especially my transmitter because I would be wearing the
camera on my body and I may change position at times. For a range of
300 meters, can I do away with my transmitter antenna? Moreover, for
penetration thru walls and out of line-of-sight, do I have have to use
a higher frequency transmitter?

I have a Sony Trinitron TV. I also have a 17" monitor with my computer
which has a TV Card. The camera I am considering has 570 lines of
horizontal resolution. Speaking in layman (me) terms, can I expect the
video quality of the programs and movies we generally watch on TV in
our daily lives?

Thanks again for the help.
Best Regards,

Amer


the Wiz <look@message.body> wrote in message news:<one0hv036i4d40obb3slfdlqjoj5fckqfk@4ax.com>...

Look for a receiver with S-Video output and a VCR with S-Video input. This has
higher resolution than "standard" video.

You need a transmitter-receiver pair that is compatible: same frequency, same
modulation type, etc.

The receiver will have a video output that can be connected to the video input
of the VCR.

For reliable long range communications, you may need a directional antenna at
one or both ends. These will effectively limit the transmission to line of
sight - you won't be able to move the transmitting or receiving antennas after
they are aligned..

The resolution of final image is limited by each piece in the path: camera,
transmitter, receiver, VCR, video tape, display.

If you're using a standard TV for display, you may not see much difference
between cameras with different resolutions. If you're using a "monitor" quality
display, you will be able to see the difference, assuming the resolution isn't
lost in the RF chain.



seymoria@yahoo.com (amer) wrote:

Hello everyone.

I need your advice for purchasing a small wireless video camera with a
built-in transmitter. Main features I am looking for are :

1- VERY high resolution, (comparable to modern Sony camcorders).
2- Transmitter which can operate out of its "line-of-sight" also.
3- Transmitter which can pass signal thru walls. (not mandatory)
4- Moderately long range (e.g. 300 meters).
5- Video to be recorded on a suitable device for later playback on TV.
6- Long battery life (~6 hours)

I have been browsing the internet but cant select the right model as I
dont know much about electronics. Currently I have found one with '570
lines of horizontal resolution'. Is this comparable to a normal
camcorder? The website is :

http://www.nctc.com/~dfluehe/

What frequency, MHz or GHz, transmitter would be right for me? They
start from 500 Mz and go upto 2.4 Ghz. Some, mentioned as for 'CCTV'
equipment, go right upto 10 and 24 GHz also!

How can I record the video for later playback on a normal home-TV?
What type of
device can I employ? Also what instrument would receive signal from
the transmitter? Do I need to purchase an antenna or an amplifier
also?

Thanks very much for any help you can provide.

Regards,
Amer

More about me: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/
VB3 source code: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/vbsource.html
VB6 source code: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/vb6source.html
VB6 - MySQL how to: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/mysql.html
Drivers for Pablo graphics tablet and JamCam cameras: http://home.earthlink.net/~mwbt/
johnecarter atat mindspring dotdot com. Fix the obvious to reply by email.

 

[the Wiz]

seymoria@yahoo.com (amer) wrote:

Dear Friend.

Thanks a lot for the helpful information.

I have inspected my VCR and it has an Audio-Video (A/V) IN and A/V
OUT. It also has an RF IN and RF OUT. Is S-video different from these
two? What is the Standard video?

S-Video is a different connector - more like the PC keyboard and mouse
connectors. You will use the standard video connectors because they are all you
have.

Also, transmitters come in many ranges from 500 Mhz upto 2.4 GHz and
also 10 and 24 GHz for FMTV. Can you advise which one I should buy?

Get a transmitter/receiver combination that offers the range you need. Be aware
that the advertised range is typically for unobstructed line of sight. The
range under "real world" conditions will be less. Consider the advertised range
on wireless PC networking (wi-fi, 802.11 at 2.4GHz). It's something like 300
meters outdoors, 50 meters indoors. In the real world, it's also dependent on
the antennas used and any sources of interference. With the wireless baby
monitor on at our house, a laptop wireless card can't sync with the router from
8 meters away on the same floor. A friend has a three level house with the
wireless router in the basement and desktop PC's with wireless network cards
(which have external antennas) on each the other floors. The maximum distance
is about 20 meters and the PC's work OK.

I cannot install visible directional antennas on my transmitter or
reciever, especially my transmitter because I would be wearing the
camera on my body and I may change position at times. For a range of
300 meters, can I do away with my transmitter antenna?

No. Note that your are at the distant end of the range of most non-licensed
transmitters.

Moreover, for
penetration thru walls and out of line-of-sight, do I have have to use
a higher frequency transmitter?

Frequency is not a major issue. Unlicensed transmitters are power limited based
on the frequency used and most will provide similar range whether 2.4GHz or
10GHz.

Assuming that the transmitter you choose has provisions for an external antenna
(not all do) you may be able to increase the range. Get a metal hat
(construction hard hat) and mount a vertical antenna (non-directional, but
definitely visible) on it to get the antenna above most of the obstructions and
provide a ground plane for the antenna. To further increase the range, get a
relatively wide beamwidth antenna for the receiver (for 2.4GHz, something like
the Mini-Tenna at http://www.etherdesigns.com/pages/3/index.htm). Point the
receiving antenna at the area to be covered and check the coverage by walking
around with your camera/transmitter to determine the best aiming of the receiver
antenna.

If the above doesn't give you enough range, you may be looking for a more
powerful (licensed) transmitter. Depending on your country, there may or may
not be reasonably priced commercial equipment available. If your application is
personal (non-commercial), you might consider getting an amateur radio license -
hams can run much more powerful transmitters. Remember that there are penalties
for a higher power transmitter - it costs more, weighs more, and needs bigger
(and heavier) batteries.

Antennas are a visible solution to increasing range, but they require no power
and add very little weight, compared to a more powerful transmitter and it's
associated batteries.

Consider the relative range of 2.4GHz wi-fi in different settings:
http://www.weca.net/OpenSection/range.asp?TID=2

I'm using wireless networking as a reference because both wi-fi and video are
high speed, wide band signals and there is published information about wi-fi.

I have a Sony Trinitron TV. I also have a 17" monitor with my computer
which has a TV Card. The camera I am considering has 570 lines of
horizontal resolution. Speaking in layman (me) terms, can I expect the
video quality of the programs and movies we generally watch on TV in
our daily lives?

Your should have adequate resolution. However, be sure that you can return the
camera and the transmitter/receiver for refund if they don't perform as
advertised.

Thanks again for the help.
Best Regards,

Your application sounds like a convention floor interview project (or a school
reunion), with the wearable camera and 6 hour battery requirements. In a
situation like this, the ideal placement for the receiver would be the top
center of the area, with cable to the VCR and TV.

*** You can't put the camera in your shirt pocket and the transmitter in your
trouser pocket and get 300 meters range.***
You might get 10 meters if you're turned so the transmitter antenna is exactly
aligned with the receiver antenna, but you may only get 3 meters.

The criteria for distance when using RF are antenna height, antenna gain, and
transmitter power. There are no shortcuts and no easy answers.


More about me: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/
VB3 source code: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/vbsource.html
VB6 source code: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/vb6source.html
VB6 - MySQL how to: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/mysql.html
Drivers for Pablo graphics tablet and JamCam cameras: http://home.earthlink.net/~mwbt/
johnecarter atat mindspring dotdot com. Fix the obvious to reply by email.

 

[amer]

Hello Wiz.

It was really great to receive a detailed and enlightening response
from you, and just in time..I had almost made up my mind to order.
Sorry for my late posting; I could not login properly to the internet
since few days.

You have given some really great tips on increasing my range through
antennas etc. while remaining within the realm of the unlicensed
transmitters. And also all the pros and cons of going wireless for
video. Thanks again.

However, what I gather from your advice is that wireless video is
practically useless unless both sources are stationary with properly
aligned high rise antennas. Or else, licensed transmitters are the
only solution. Thus I am now seriously considering my options with
licensed transmitters.

You mention Unlicensed transmitters are power limited; how about using
a high power amplifier with my transmitter? Will that give me a large
out of line of sight range without antennas? If amps can do the job, I
hope they are not too large or costly for me. Whats your advice?

Are licesed transmitters the ones that are advertized as to work with
the FMTV? Also, with these, can I expect an out of line of sight range
of 300 meters (thru walls also)?

Finally, some points I could not comprehend in your post. Pls.
elaborate.

If your application is
personal (non-commercial), you might consider getting an amateur radio >license -

Is a radio license issued to radio stations only? Sorry dont know much
about them.

hams can run much more powerful transmitters.

What are hams?

Remember that there are penalties
for a higher power transmitter - it costs more, weighs more, and needs bigger
(and heavier) batteries.

That probably means it is not portable at all. What is generally its
size? Roughly, can I expect anything the size of a CDROM drive?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Amer

(p.s. your guess of the supposed method of use for this camera is
correct. However, the purpose is a different. Its more of an
investigative nature.)






the Wiz <look@message.body> wrote in message news:<rdc3hv4j5dndurrsk4s7mn5u10ia2286d3@4ax.com>...

seymoria@yahoo.com (amer) wrote:

Dear Friend.

Thanks a lot for the helpful information.

I have inspected my VCR and it has an Audio-Video (A/V) IN and A/V
OUT. It also has an RF IN and RF OUT. Is S-video different from these
two? What is the Standard video?

S-Video is a different connector - more like the PC keyboard and mouse
connectors. You will use the standard video connectors because they are all you
have.


Also, transmitters come in many ranges from 500 Mhz upto 2.4 GHz and
also 10 and 24 GHz for FMTV. Can you advise which one I should buy?

Get a transmitter/receiver combination that offers the range you need. Be aware
that the advertised range is typically for unobstructed line of sight. The
range under "real world" conditions will be less. Consider the advertised range
on wireless PC networking (wi-fi, 802.11 at 2.4GHz). It's something like 300
meters outdoors, 50 meters indoors. In the real world, it's also dependent on
the antennas used and any sources of interference. With the wireless baby
monitor on at our house, a laptop wireless card can't sync with the router from
8 meters away on the same floor. A friend has a three level house with the
wireless router in the basement and desktop PC's with wireless network cards
(which have external antennas) on each the other floors. The maximum distance
is about 20 meters and the PC's work OK.


I cannot install visible directional antennas on my transmitter or
reciever, especially my transmitter because I would be wearing the
camera on my body and I may change position at times. For a range of
300 meters, can I do away with my transmitter antenna?

No. Note that your are at the distant end of the range of most non-licensed
transmitters.

Moreover, for
penetration thru walls and out of line-of-sight, do I have have to use
a higher frequency transmitter?

Frequency is not a major issue. Unlicensed transmitters are power limited based
on the frequency used and most will provide similar range whether 2.4GHz or
10GHz.

Assuming that the transmitter you choose has provisions for an external antenna
(not all do) you may be able to increase the range. Get a metal hat
(construction hard hat) and mount a vertical antenna (non-directional, but
definitely visible) on it to get the antenna above most of the obstructions and
provide a ground plane for the antenna. To further increase the range, get a
relatively wide beamwidth antenna for the receiver (for 2.4GHz, something like
the Mini-Tenna at http://www.etherdesigns.com/pages/3/index.htm). Point the
receiving antenna at the area to be covered and check the coverage by walking
around with your camera/transmitter to determine the best aiming of the receiver
antenna.

If the above doesn't give you enough range, you may be looking for a more
powerful (licensed) transmitter. Depending on your country, there may or may
not be reasonably priced commercial equipment available. If your application is
personal (non-commercial), you might consider getting an amateur radio license -
hams can run much more powerful transmitters. Remember that there are penalties
for a higher power transmitter - it costs more, weighs more, and needs bigger
(and heavier) batteries.

Antennas are a visible solution to increasing range, but they require no power
and add very little weight, compared to a more powerful transmitter and it's
associated batteries.

Consider the relative range of 2.4GHz wi-fi in different settings:
http://www.weca.net/OpenSection/range.asp?TID=2

I'm using wireless networking as a reference because both wi-fi and video are
high speed, wide band signals and there is published information about wi-fi.


I have a Sony Trinitron TV. I also have a 17" monitor with my computer
which has a TV Card. The camera I am considering has 570 lines of
horizontal resolution. Speaking in layman (me) terms, can I expect the
video quality of the programs and movies we generally watch on TV in
our daily lives?

Your should have adequate resolution. However, be sure that you can return the
camera and the transmitter/receiver for refund if they don't perform as
advertised.


Thanks again for the help.
Best Regards,


Your application sounds like a convention floor interview project (or a school
reunion), with the wearable camera and 6 hour battery requirements. In a
situation like this, the ideal placement for the receiver would be the top
center of the area, with cable to the VCR and TV.

*** You can't put the camera in your shirt pocket and the transmitter in your
trouser pocket and get 300 meters range.***
You might get 10 meters if you're turned so the transmitter antenna is exactly
aligned with the receiver antenna, but you may only get 3 meters.

The criteria for distance when using RF are antenna height, antenna gain, and
transmitter power. There are no shortcuts and no easy answers.


More about me: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/
VB3 source code: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/vbsource.html
VB6 source code: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/vb6source.html
VB6 - MySQL how to: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/mysql.html
Drivers for Pablo graphics tablet and JamCam cameras: http://home.earthlink.net/~mwbt/
johnecarter atat mindspring dotdot com. Fix the obvious to reply by email.

 

[the Wiz]

seymoria@yahoo.com (amer) wrote:

Hello Wiz.

It was really great to receive a detailed and enlightening response
from you, and just in time..I had almost made up my mind to order.
Sorry for my late posting; I could not login properly to the internet
since few days.

You have given some really great tips on increasing my range through
antennas etc. while remaining within the realm of the unlicensed
transmitters. And also all the pros and cons of going wireless for
video. Thanks again.

However, what I gather from your advice is that wireless video is
practically useless unless both sources are stationary with properly
aligned high rise antennas. Or else, licensed transmitters are the
only solution. Thus I am now seriously considering my options with
licensed transmitters.

You've probably seen the wireless cameras that are used by TV news crews. These
typically use a licensed transmitter with higher power. You should also notice
that the camera and battery pack (either on-camera or on a battery belt) have a
combined weight of 10 kilos or more. Part of this is the more capable camera
(better optics, wide range zoom lens, etc) but a portion of it is battery
weight.

You mention Unlicensed transmitters are power limited; how about using
a high power amplifier with my transmitter? Will that give me a large
out of line of sight range without antennas? If amps can do the job, I
hope they are not too large or costly for me. Whats your advice?

The unlicensed transmitter is unlicensed because it is power-limited. Adding an
amplifier will move it out of the unlicensed power category. Depending on your
country, you could:
never be noticed
receive a warning
be fined
receive jail time

Are licesed transmitters the ones that are advertized as to work with
the FMTV? Also, with these, can I expect an out of line of sight range
of 300 meters (thru walls also)?

Licensed video transmitters typically operate on assigned frequency bands and
require a matching receiver. They are not in the standard TV band.

Finally, some points I could not comprehend in your post. Pls.
elaborate.

If your application is
personal (non-commercial), you might consider getting an amateur radio >license -

Is a radio license issued to radio stations only? Sorry dont know much
about them.

Most countries issue amateur radio operator (ham) licenses to people who pass a
test on radio theory, law, and some level of receiving/sending Morse code.
Depending on the country and the frequencies used, hams can use amplifiers for
up to 1000 wats of power - obviously not portable or battery powered ;-)
However, an amateur transmitter that delivers a few watts is many times more
powerful than the unlicensed transmitters that deliver on a few milliwatts
(think in terms of meters versus millimeters for a relative value comparison).

hams can run much more powerful transmitters.

What are hams?

Remember that there are penalties
for a higher power transmitter - it costs more, weighs more, and needs bigger
(and heavier) batteries.

That probably means it is not portable at all. What is generally its
size? Roughly, can I expect anything the size of a CDROM drive?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Amer

(p.s. your guess of the supposed method of use for this camera is
correct. However, the purpose is a different. Its more of an
investigative nature.)

More about me: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/
VB3 source code: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/vbsource.html
VB6 source code: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/vb6source.html
VB6 - MySQL how to: http://thelabwiz.home.mindspring.com/mysql.html
Drivers for Pablo graphics tablet and JamCam cameras: http://home.earthlink.net/~mwbt/
johnecarter atat mindspring dotdot com. Fix the obvious to reply by email.