need flexible LED array schematic for dibetes treatment

[Walter Alter]

Anyone know of a schematic or plans that might be engineered to serve as an
IR treatement device for nerve problems associated with diabetes?
Commercial units go for $2-3,000 and my local MIRE (monochromatic infrared
energy) clinic is overbooked. The device is basically an array of 80 or so
820nm diodes mounted on a flexible cloth rectangle that is placed in contact
with the affected area, usually the feet for 20 minutes or so. The lights
are pulsed, tho the rate of pulsing is not a matter of therapy, but has to
do with the duty cycle rating of the LED.

It would be a snap for an electronics wiz to throw one of these together and
I'd give it a try if I had a schematic and some assembly tips. For example,
I don't know if surface mount LED's would be the easiest to work with,
battery power source vs 110, etc. Any help on this would be greatly
appreciated. MIRE units are becoming a standard effective self-administered
therapy for diabetics who develop nerve pain and anasthesia in their feet,
and if a workable kit approach could be put out there, thousands of folks
could be helped that otherwise couldn't afford it.

Many thanks,
Walter

 

[Hugh Prescott]

If you make them for yourself no problem.

Once you make them for other people as gifts or for sale then you need to
comply with a whole lot of regulations on a federal level, Department of
Health & Human Services

You are making a medical device.

The compliance paperwork will consume a medium sized forest.

Hugh




"Walter Alter" <neuronjockey@nospamearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ReQuc.17102$Tn6.6834@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

Anyone know of a schematic or plans that might be engineered to serve as
an
IR treatement device for nerve problems associated with diabetes?
Commercial units go for $2-3,000 and my local MIRE (monochromatic infrared
energy) clinic is overbooked. The device is basically an array of 80 or
so
820nm diodes mounted on a flexible cloth rectangle that is placed in
contact
with the affected area, usually the feet for 20 minutes or so. The lights
are pulsed, tho the rate of pulsing is not a matter of therapy, but has to
do with the duty cycle rating of the LED.

It would be a snap for an electronics wiz to throw one of these together
and
I'd give it a try if I had a schematic and some assembly tips. For
example,
I don't know if surface mount LED's would be the easiest to work with,
battery power source vs 110, etc. Any help on this would be greatly
appreciated. MIRE units are becoming a standard effective
self-administered
therapy for diabetics who develop nerve pain and anasthesia in their feet,
and if a workable kit approach could be put out there, thousands of folks
could be helped that otherwise couldn't afford it.

Many thanks,
Walter

 

[Walter Alter]

Thanks Hugh. Yah I know, but it's a one off number for my own personal use,
a work around for ripoff medical equipment prices. I'm living in the Oregon
outback with the VA as my medical provider. They don't cover jack, let alone
gear like this. My toes and feet are going numb and this treatment is
supposed to be effective in over 90% of the cases.

Got any suggestions on where to start?

Walter



"Hugh Prescott" <hugh345@adams.net> wrote in message
news:40bd31c9_5@newsfeed.slurp.net...

If you make them for yourself no problem.

Once you make them for other people as gifts or for sale then you need to
comply with a whole lot of regulations on a federal level, Department of
Health & Human Services

You are making a medical device.

The compliance paperwork will consume a medium sized forest.

Hugh




"Walter Alter" <neuronjockey@nospamearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ReQuc.17102$Tn6.6834@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Anyone know of a schematic or plans that might be engineered to serve as
an
IR treatement device for nerve problems associated with diabetes?
Commercial units go for $2-3,000 and my local MIRE (monochromatic
infrared
energy) clinic is overbooked. The device is basically an array of 80 or
so
820nm diodes mounted on a flexible cloth rectangle that is placed in
contact
with the affected area, usually the feet for 20 minutes or so. The
lights
are pulsed, tho the rate of pulsing is not a matter of therapy, but has
to
do with the duty cycle rating of the LED.

It would be a snap for an electronics wiz to throw one of these together
and
I'd give it a try if I had a schematic and some assembly tips. For
example,
I don't know if surface mount LED's would be the easiest to work with,
battery power source vs 110, etc. Any help on this would be greatly
appreciated. MIRE units are becoming a standard effective
self-administered
therapy for diabetics who develop nerve pain and anasthesia in their
feet,
and if a workable kit approach could be put out there, thousands of
folks
could be helped that otherwise couldn't afford it.

Many thanks,
Walter

 

[Adam Aglionby]

Added crosspost to sci.electronics.design and sci.engineering lighting
which might be better places than sci.electronics.equipment


"Walter Alter" <neuronjockey@nospamearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ReQuc.17102$Tn6.6834@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

Anyone know of a schematic or plans that might be engineered to serve as
an
IR treatement device for nerve problems associated with diabetes?
Commercial units go for $2-3,000 and my local MIRE (monochromatic infrared
energy) clinic is overbooked. The device is basically an array of 80 or
so
820nm diodes mounted on a flexible cloth rectangle that is placed in
contact
with the affected area, usually the feet for 20 minutes or so. The lights
are pulsed, tho the rate of pulsing is not a matter of therapy, but has to
do with the duty cycle rating of the LED.

It would be a snap for an electronics wiz to throw one of these together
and
I'd give it a try if I had a schematic and some assembly tips. For
example,
I don't know if surface mount LED's would be the easiest to work with,

Does it definbnately need to be flexible?

battery power source vs 110,

Take 30mA each LED * 80 = 2.4A some sort of plug in device probably.

It`s not rocket science, circuit should be relatively simple.
Will have a chew on it and hopefully others will contibute thoughts.

etc. Any help on this would be greatly
appreciated. MIRE units are becoming a standard effective
self-administered
therapy for diabetics who develop nerve pain and anasthesia in their feet,
and if a workable kit approach could be put out there, thousands of folks
could be helped that otherwise couldn't afford it.

Some research into accelerated wound healing as well involving IR LEDs.

Adam

 

[Clive Mitchell]

In message <Uvpvc.2365$ny7.25675951@news-text.cableinet.net>, Adam
Aglionby <nws@capersville.co.uk> writes

Some research into accelerated wound healing as well involving IR LEDs.

Not just infra red. 660nm LEDs are supposed to have similar therapeutic
effects. I made my brother a panel with high output 660nm reds to try
on a shoulder problem and he said it was very helpful.

If you do some research you'll also find a report that NASA has
developed a surgical probe that emits 660nm red for use during
operations.

All very interesting, but is it just quackery or placebo effect?

If you search the 'net you'll find all manner of quacks cashing in on
red LED technology, and offering grossly overpriced arrays of ordinary
red LEDs in hacked torch cases. (They're particularly good on horses
don't you know..... Or is it just that most people who have a horse
have lots of spare cash?)

Given the massive intensity improvements on warm (635nm) red LEDs, I
wonder if the old fashioned "deep red" 660nm "mega bright" LEDs will
start going obsolete?

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

 

[Ian Stirling]

In sci.engr.lighting Clive Mitchell <clive1@emanator.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In message <Uvpvc.2365$ny7.25675951@news-text.cableinet.net>, Adam
Aglionby <nws@capersville.co.uk> writes
Some research into accelerated wound healing as well involving IR LEDs.

Not just infra red. 660nm LEDs are supposed to have similar therapeutic
effects. I made my brother a panel with high output 660nm reds to try
on a shoulder problem and he said it was very helpful.

Not that I have problems with using LEDs, but what about good old
fashioned tungsten.
Either a common-or-garden floodlight, or a spotlight with a dichroic
mirror if you don't want long-wave IR.

 

[Walter Alter]

Thanks for the crosspost, Adam.

Does it definitely need to be flexible?

Probably not, but the idea is to put the LED's in contact with the skin.
The standard commercial version I've seen on the website looks like the
LED's have red pigmented cylindrical lenses standing about 1/8" above heavy
canvas or webbing type cloth rectangles, two of which are connected together
to sandwich the toes. There is a larger boot type unit which is velcroed
around the foot and ankle.

With standard two wire LED's it would seem to me to be a bit of a problem to
get them to sit perpendicular to the cloth without some support, perhaps in
a button of silicone. Tho a circuit board is neater than having a bunch of
wires on the outside, the wires could be covered by another piece of cloth.

Most LED array circuits I've seen has had the LED's wired partly in series.
Can't a 30mA power source work on many LED's in parallel? The drawback to
series connected LED's is the failure of one LED which makes the entire
circuit go out and it's hard to find the broken LED.

battery power source vs 110,

Take 30mA each LED * 80 = 2.4A some sort of plug in device probably.

It`s not rocket science, circuit should be relatively simple.
Will have a chew on it and hopefully others will contibute thoughts.

Keep in mind that the therapeutic version of the array needs to be pulsed,
tho I'm not sure yet at what frequency. There may also be some sort of
intensity dimmer. The control unit of the medical version looks like it has
a couple of knobs on it. I'm going to get a look at one at the clinic next
week and note down as many details as I can. The clinic is sympathetic to
my project, they are swamped and can't find a licensed physical therapist in
this neck of the woods in order to expand their operations.

Some research into accelerated wound healing as well involving IR LEDs.

Yes it's a well documented for real therapy with lots of testing over a
decade, not some turn of the century phlogiston thing.

Thanks for your help,
Walter

 

[Walter Alter]

"Clive Mitchell" <clive1@emanator.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4eihMNE69lvAFw1k@emanator.demon.co.uk...

In message <Uvpvc.2365$ny7.25675951@news-text.cableinet.net>, Adam
Aglionby <nws@capersville.co.uk> writes
Some research into accelerated wound healing as well involving IR LEDs.

Not just infra red. 660nm LEDs are supposed to have similar therapeutic
effects. I made my brother a panel with high output 660nm reds to try
on a shoulder problem and he said it was very helpful.

If you do some research you'll also find a report that NASA has
developed a surgical probe that emits 660nm red for use during
operations.

All very interesting, but is it just quackery or placebo effect?

It is used extensively now on stubborn bed ulcers, it really works, lots of
hospital testing on wound healing. For muscle strain, that's always going
to have a psychological aspect. For neuropathy, the 830nm frequency can
penetrate almost a half inch of skin and muscle tissue and seems to act to
cause the release of nitric oxide in the capilaries which in turn is known
to aid in nerve regeneration. There have been clinical trials in neuropathy
and the results are for real. MIRE therapy is a standard therapy for
neuropathy. The local clinic says he sees at least partial benefit in 100%
of his patients and dramatic benefit in about half., depending on how far
the disease has progressed.

Walter

 

[Walter Alter]

"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40be6bd4$0$44300$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...

In sci.engr.lighting Clive Mitchell <clive1@emanator.demon.co.uk> wrote:
In message <Uvpvc.2365$ny7.25675951@news-text.cableinet.net>, Adam
Aglionby <nws@capersville.co.uk> writes
Some research into accelerated wound healing as well involving IR LEDs.

Not just infra red. 660nm LEDs are supposed to have similar therapeutic
effects. I made my brother a panel with high output 660nm reds to try
on a shoulder problem and he said it was very helpful.

Not that I have problems with using LEDs, but what about good old
fashioned tungsten.
Either a common-or-garden floodlight, or a spotlight with a dichroic
mirror if you don't want long-wave IR.

The LED's don't produce as much heat and can contact the skin. They can
also be tuned to a particular frequency, some are better for neuropathy,
some for wound healing. I was actually thinking of wrapping my feet in red
mylar and putting them under a few garden spotlights...!

Walter

 

[Adam Aglionby]

"Walter Alter" <neuronjockey@nospamearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%Uwvc.19896$Tn6.3995@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

Thanks for the crosspost, Adam.


Does it definitely need to be flexible?

Probably not, but the idea is to put the LED's in contact with the skin.
The standard commercial version I've seen on the website looks like the
LED's have red pigmented cylindrical lenses standing about 1/8" above
heavy
canvas or webbing type cloth rectangles, two of which are connected
together
to sandwich the toes. There is a larger boot type unit which is velcroed
around the foot and ankle.

Links are good

Flexible trickier.

With standard two wire LED's it would seem to me to be a bit of a problem
to
get them to sit perpendicular to the cloth without some support, perhaps
in
a button of silicone. Tho a circuit board is neater than having a bunch
of
wires on the outside, the wires could be covered by another piece of
cloth.

Flexible PCBs are used in a number of things.

Most LED array circuits I've seen has had the LED's wired partly in
series.
Can't a 30mA power source work on many LED's in parallel?

Current hogging, rotten negative temp co efficient, as they get hotter they
get hungier so parallel LEDs need resistor per LED , series strings much the
easiest way to go.

The drawback to
series connected LED's is the failure of one LED which makes the entire
circuit go out and it's hard to find the broken LED.

battery power source vs 110,

Take 30mA each LED * 80 = 2.4A some sort of plug in device probably.

It`s not rocket science, circuit should be relatively simple.
Will have a chew on it and hopefully others will contibute thoughts.

Keep in mind that the therapeutic version of the array needs to be pulsed,
tho I'm not sure yet at what frequency.

This a duty cycle thing to avoid cooking the LEDs, sure the sales literature
waffles on about watts and watts of power, its pulsed and should be measured
in joules , average power will be milliwatts.
..

There may also be some sort of
intensity dimmer. The control unit of the medical version looks like it
has
a couple of knobs on it.

Discombobulator
fitted to all late model medical equipment,adds an extra $2K though
Possibly current or pulse width modulation of intensity.

I'm going to get a look at one at the clinic next
week and note down as many details as I can. The clinic is sympathetic to
my project, they are swamped and can't find a licensed physical therapist
in
this neck of the woods in order to expand their operations.

Lets hear back when you know on what you know.

Some research into accelerated wound healing as well involving IR LEDs.

Yes it's a well documented for real therapy with lots of testing over a
decade, not some turn of the century phlogiston thing.

Again links always help., remeber NASA had some stuff on their site and
various Mil sponsored projects around place.

General LED try these for starters

http://www.ledmuseum.org

http://members.misty.com/don/

http://www2.whidbey.net/opto/LEDFAQ/The%20LED%20FAQ%20Pages.html

Adam

Thanks for your help,
Walter

 

[Walter Alter]

http://www.ledmuseum.org

http://members.misty.com/don/

http://www2.whidbey.net/opto/LEDFAQ/The%20LED%20FAQ%20Pages.html

Good links, Adam, I'll order some LED's soon. What is the drill for making
them flash? Do you need some sort of chip with a clocked switch on it?

Walter

 

[Rich Grise]

"Adam Aglionby" <nws@capersville.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Uvpvc.2365$ny7.25675951@news-text.cableinet.net...

"Walter Alter" <neuronjockey@nospamearthlink.net> wrote in message

Anyone know of a schematic or plans that might be engineered to serve as
an
IR treatement device for nerve problems associated with diabetes?
Commercial units go for $2-3,000 and my local MIRE (monochromatic
infrared
energy) clinic is overbooked. The device is basically an array of 80 or
so
820nm diodes mounted on a flexible cloth rectangle that is placed in
contact
with the affected area, usually the feet for 20 minutes or so. The
lights
are pulsed, tho the rate of pulsing is not a matter of therapy, but has
to
do with the duty cycle rating of the LED.

Some research into accelerated wound healing as well involving IR LEDs.

Adam

It's a freaking heating pad in a snake oil suit.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

"Walter Alter" <neuronjockey@nospamearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%Uwvc.19896

Thanks for the crosspost, Adam.
Does it definitely need to be flexible?

Probably not, but the idea is to put the LED's in contact with the skin.
The standard commercial version I've seen on the website looks like the
LED's have red pigmented cylindrical lenses standing about 1/8" above
heavy
canvas or webbing type cloth rectangles, two of which are connected
together
to sandwich the toes. There is a larger boot type unit which is velcroed
around the foot and ankle.

With standard two wire LED's it would seem to me to be a bit of a problem
to
get them to sit perpendicular to the cloth without some support, perhaps
in
a button of silicone. Tho a circuit board is neater than having a bunch
of
wires on the outside, the wires could be covered by another piece of
cloth.

Or you could plow through 10 pages of surface mount LEDs at Mouser:
http://www.mouser.com/?No=0&handler=data.listcategory&N=431&Ne=400

but it's still a heating blanket in a snake oil suit.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Walter Alter" <neuronjockey@nospamearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ReQuc.17102$Tn6.6834@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

Anyone know of a schematic or plans that might be engineered to serve
as an
IR treatement device for nerve problems associated with diabetes?
Commercial units go for $2-3,000 and my local MIRE (monochromatic
infrared
energy) clinic is overbooked. The device is basically an array of 80
or so
820nm diodes mounted on a flexible cloth rectangle that is placed in
contact
with the affected area, usually the feet for 20 minutes or so. The
lights
are pulsed, tho the rate of pulsing is not a matter of therapy, but
has to
do with the duty cycle rating of the LED.

It would be a snap for an electronics wiz to throw one of these
together and
I'd give it a try if I had a schematic and some assembly tips. For
example,
I don't know if surface mount LED's would be the easiest to work with,
battery power source vs 110, etc. Any help on this would be greatly
appreciated. MIRE units are becoming a standard effective
self-administered
therapy for diabetics who develop nerve pain and anasthesia in their
feet,
and if a workable kit approach could be put out there, thousands of
folks
could be helped that otherwise couldn't afford it.

Medical devices have to be gov't approved. Thousands of victims could
be hurt by a medical device gone bad. So buy a commercial one. The
extra money you pay protects your life.

And also, selling a kit might be illegal.

Many thanks,
Walter