Need advice

[Robert Greenwood]

This might not seem like much of a problem but it's been
aggravating me for a long time.

Light bulbs are only lasting a portion of the time they are
supposed to last.

I kept records for eight months until I decided I was wasting
my time, But it's beginning to make me angry again.

Most of the light bulbs are on 24 hours a day so it's easy to
keep accurate records of how long they last.

There have been times when I have put in 3 light bulbs at the
same time in three different lights in the house and they have
burned out within hours of each other.

Maybe it's the wiring in this house that's going bad?

The electrical service company keeps pushing for it's customers
to rent surge protectors for $9.00 a month that go where the meter
goes then the meter plugs into it.

Maybe they found a way to burn out light bulbs to motivate
customers to rent surge protectors?

Maybe I need to buy stock in a light bulb company?

My neighbors are few and far between out here and the ones
I have asked don't seem to have a problem.

I've tried a lot of different brands of bulbs and had the same
results with every brand.

Does anyone have any idea's of what the problem is?

 

[Steve]

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 03:44:57 -0600, Robert Greenwood <Fake_address@dot.net>
wrote:

This might not seem like much of a problem but it's been
aggravating me for a long time.

Light bulbs are only lasting a portion of the time they are
supposed to last.

I kept records for eight months until I decided I was wasting
my time, But it's beginning to make me angry again.

...................

If you have occurences of your light bulbs dimming slightly or going bright
for a short time before returning to normal then you may have a supply
voltage problem.

Where I live in Australia the electricity supplier has a requirement to
keep the voltage within a 5% tolerance of 240V. If it falls within that
range, ie. 228V-252V they say they are doing their job. If the supply
voltage is outside of that range then you can tell them to do something
about it. You may be able to hire a data-logging multimeter from a
electronic instrument repair shop to see what the voltage is doing.
Unfortunately if it stays within your electricity suppliers tolerance
levels they will tell you where to go (politely, of course).

I also have heard that the quality (read price) of the bulb does make a
difference. The more expensive ones have a thicker filament strung not as
tight as cheap (eg. generic supermarket brand) ones, meaning they can take
more of a 'shock' from voltage fluctuations I suppose you could say. The
biggest 'shock' for a light bulb is of course when it gets switched on.
However as you say yours are on 24 hours the problem may well lie with the
supply voltage. I have heard of a light bulb in an American fire station
somewhere that apparently has been burning non-stop for 100 years (truth
factor unknown!!).

Steve B

 

[Bruce Esquibel]

Robert Greenwood (Fake_address@dot.net) wrote:
: This might not seem like much of a problem but it's been
: aggravating me for a long time.

: Light bulbs are only lasting a portion of the time they are
: supposed to last.

: I kept records for eight months until I decided I was wasting
: my time, But it's beginning to make me angry again.

: Most of the light bulbs are on 24 hours a day so it's easy to
: keep accurate records of how long they last.

Really would need a better explanation of the second statement, define the
"supposed to last".

If they are on 24 hours a day for 8 months, that is around 6000 hours of
use. If you are talking about plain old screw-in bulbs, as far as I know,
most of the over-the-counter stuff is 1000 or 2000 hour life length. Even
the Sylvania "double-life" bulbs are only rated at 1500 hours.

So in some respect, you are already getting 4 to 8 times the life span.

But I do agree with you, this year I started using the screw-in florescent
kind because it seemed like alot of the bulbs we use in the house were not
lasting a very long time. Didn't keep track of any of them, just seemed to
be bringing out the ladder more often than before. At first I thought it was
just a bad batch or lousy brand (grocery store sale, generic house brand),
but even after switching to more expensive brand name from Home Depot, there
really didn't seem to be a difference.

Not sure what is going on but it does seem to me the ones we used to get
from the local power company (for some token fee tacked onto the bill) used
to last for what seemed forever. Eventually dropped the service because we
had more bulbs than we knew what to do with.

-bruce
bje@ripco.com

 

[ph12]

I've tried a lot of different brands of bulbs and had the same
results with every brand.

Does anyone have any idea's of what the problem is?

In Europe there are so called low energy bulbs which are in effect a folded

miniature flourescent tube with control gear made as a plug in replacement
for conventional filament lamps. If they are available where you are they
may be worth a try for both longevity and energy saving

Peter

 

[w_tom]

Incandescent light bulb life expectancy will decrease to one
half if the voltage rises even 6%. The relationship between
light bulb life expectancy and voltage an inverse to the power
of 13.

'Whole house' protector behind meter does nothing for
voltage fluctuations. In fact, AC voltage would have to more
than double for that protector to even see the voltage.

One more common reason for voltage variations are loose
neutral wires into breaker box. Bigger load on other phase
can cause excessive voltage on light bulbs.

Robert Greenwood wrote:

This might not seem like much of a problem but it's been
aggravating me for a long time.

Light bulbs are only lasting a portion of the time they are
supposed to last.

I kept records for eight months until I decided I was wasting
my time, But it's beginning to make me angry again.

Most of the light bulbs are on 24 hours a day so it's easy to
keep accurate records of how long they last.

There have been times when I have put in 3 light bulbs at the
same time in three different lights in the house and they have
burned out within hours of each other.

Maybe it's the wiring in this house that's going bad?

The electrical service company keeps pushing for it's customers
to rent surge protectors for $9.00 a month that go where the meter
goes then the meter plugs into it.

Maybe they found a way to burn out light bulbs to motivate
customers to rent surge protectors?

Maybe I need to buy stock in a light bulb company?

My neighbors are few and far between out here and the ones
I have asked don't seem to have a problem.

I've tried a lot of different brands of bulbs and had the same
results with every brand.

Does anyone have any idea's of what the problem is?

 

[Charles Schuler]

Maybe it's the wiring in this house that's going bad?

I doubt that. If your line voltage is on the high side, that will shorten
bulb life. I don't know if you can still get them, but higher voltage bulbs
used to be available. A friend and I once split a case of 130 V bulbs and
they lasted a lot longer. The reason we split a case was that was the only
way for us to get them .... order a whole case.

 

[Cher]

Just curious, but are you at the end of the power line?

That is a bad place to be from my experience.

All the fluxuations, spike, lightning strikes, etc. seem to be worse
at the end of the line.




On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 03:44:57 -0600, "Robert Greenwood"
<Fake_address@dot.net> wrote:

This might not seem like much of a problem but it's been
aggravating me for a long time.

Light bulbs are only lasting a portion of the time they are
supposed to last.

I kept records for eight months until I decided I was wasting
my time, But it's beginning to make me angry again.

Most of the light bulbs are on 24 hours a day so it's easy to
keep accurate records of how long they last.

There have been times when I have put in 3 light bulbs at the
same time in three different lights in the house and they have
burned out within hours of each other.

Maybe it's the wiring in this house that's going bad?

The electrical service company keeps pushing for it's customers
to rent surge protectors for $9.00 a month that go where the meter
goes then the meter plugs into it.

Maybe they found a way to burn out light bulbs to motivate
customers to rent surge protectors?

Maybe I need to buy stock in a light bulb company?

My neighbors are few and far between out here and the ones
I have asked don't seem to have a problem.

I've tried a lot of different brands of bulbs and had the same
results with every brand.

Does anyone have any idea's of what the problem is?

 

[Robert Greenwood]

Cher wrote:

Just curious, but are you at the end of the power line?

That is a bad place to be from my experience.

All the fluxuations, spike, lightning strikes, etc. seem to be worse
at the end of the line.

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 03:44:57 -0600, "Robert Greenwood"
Fake_address@dot.net> wrote:

No I'm not at the end but I am near a junction where the line

turns from East-West to North-South.

Lightning has struck out here a lot. I have two phones and a computer
that I have seen arc and burn out right after thunder but that has been
a long time ago.

I was standing near the road one day in a light drizzle when lightning
struck the road and I saw blue electricity traveling along the road.

I felt lucky I wasn't electrocuted.

 

[Robert Greenwood]

Charles Schuler wrote:

Maybe it's the wiring in this house that's going bad?

I doubt that. If your line voltage is on the high side, that will
shorten bulb life. I don't know if you can still get them, but
higher voltage bulbs used to be available. A friend and I once split
a case of 130 V bulbs and they lasted a lot longer. The reason we
split a case was that was the only way for us to get them .... order
a whole case.

Thanks Charles that's a good idea about the higher voltage bulbs.

That would be worth a try.

There is a Electrical supply store in town that I could call and ask
about those higher voltage bulbs. I bet they have some.

 

[Robert Greenwood]

ph12 wrote:

In Europe there are so called low energy bulbs which are in effect a
folded miniature flourescent tube with control gear made as a plug in
replacement for conventional filament lamps. If they are available
where you are they may be worth a try for both longevity and energy
saving

Peter
We have those flourescent bulbs here.

I've thought about trying another one of those.

A long time ago I bought one and it lasted for several years until one day
the utility room was full of smoke and it was trying to melt.

They might be built better now than when I tried one before.

 

[Robert Greenwood]

Bruce Esquibel wrote:

If they are on 24 hours a day for 8 months, that is around 6000 hours
of use. If you are talking about plain old screw-in bulbs, as far as
I know, most of the over-the-counter stuff is 1000 or 2000 hour life
length. Even the Sylvania "double-life" bulbs are only rated at 1500
hours.

So in some respect, you are already getting 4 to 8 times the life
span.
-bruce
bje@ripco.com

I don't believe I said the bulbs were lasting for 8 months.

I kept records for 8 months using a spread sheet.
If I knew a good news group to upload it to you could look at it.
The spread sheet is in Excel format @ 17k.
I also put it in a Pdf file @ 180k.

Most light bulb packages show the bulb will last for 750 hours.

I'm lucky to get 500 hours of life from a 750 hour bulb.

I bought some bulbs that the package said they would last 2000
hours. These only lasted about the same amount of time as the
750 hour bulbs that's when I stopped keeping records.

 

[Robert Greenwood]

Steve wrote:

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 03:44:57 -0600, Robert Greenwood
Fake_address@dot.net> wrote:

..................
If you have occurrences of your light bulbs dimming slightly or going
bright for a short time before returning to normal then you may have
a supply voltage problem.

Where I live in Australia the electricity supplier has a requirement
to keep the voltage within a 5% tolerance of 240V. If it falls within
that range, i.e.. 228V-252V they say they are doing their job. If the
supply voltage is outside of that range then you can tell them to do
something about it. You may be able to hire a data-logging multimeter
from a electronic instrument repair shop to see what the voltage is
doing. Unfortunately if it stays within your electricity suppliers
tolerance levels they will tell you where to go (politely, of course).

I also have heard that the quality (read price) of the bulb does make
a difference. The more expensive ones have a thicker filament strung
not as tight as cheap (e.g.. generic supermarket brand) ones, meaning
they can take more of a 'shock' from voltage fluctuations I suppose
you could say. The biggest 'shock' for a light bulb is of course when
it gets switched on. However as you say yours are on 24 hours the
problem may well lie with the supply voltage. I have heard of a light
bulb in an American fire station somewhere that apparently has been
burning non-stop for 100 years (truth factor unknown!!).

Steve B

I have also heard of that light bulb that's lasted for 100 years.
I wish I had a dozen or more.

That was when people built quality products but if the bulbs
never burned out the companies wouldn't make much money.

I've seen advertisements for voltage meters that interface with
a computer and can log data, I think I'll buy one. I've put
off buying one because I have two Fluke voltage meters and
an older analog meter that I don't often use.

There are times when the refrigerator kicks on that the bulbs
dim for a few seconds and the microwave pulls down the
current sometimes.

I've tried an assortment of bulbs from cheap generic to
expensive brands and they all seem to last about the same
length of time.

I think the bulb manufacturers are making sub standard bulbs
so people will buy more bulbs.

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

There may be other problems than high line voltage causing your bulbs to
go bad. These include erratic/interrmittent connections, bad switches,
and vibrations.

If a 2000 hour buld lasts the same length of time as a 750 hour bulb,
doesn't sound like high line voltage.

In any case, you should measure the line voltage since if it's high, may be
bad for other electronics/appliances. There are acceptable limits and
if it's outside these limits, the power company should know.

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[John Del]

Subject: Re: Need advice
From: "Robert Greenwood" Fake_address@dot.net
Date: 11/19/03 12:25 AM Eastern Standard Time

I think the bulb manufacturers are making sub standard bulbs
so people will buy more bulbs.

I suspect that light bulbs are more efficient when run near the limit of
filament failure.

Anyway, what I do is install sliding light dimmers on all my wall switches, and
physically shunt the slider to limit it to about 85% of it's travel at the
bright end. I haven't replaced the spots above my fireplace in at least 5
years, whereas I was replacing them several times a year.

John Del
Wolcott, CT

"I'm just trying to get into heaven, I'm not running for Jesus!"
Homer Simpson

(remove S for email reply)

 

[w_tom]

Easy to make a bulb last 100 years. Again, the relationship
between voltage and life expectancy was provided. Just lower
the voltage or install high voltage bulbs (ie those 130 volt
bulbs). Either will increase life expectancy but will also
cause light output to drop by an exponential factor of 3.5.
Decreased line voltage causes a major increase in bulb life
expectancy (to power of 13) and an exponential decrease in
bulb light output and efficiency (to power of 3.5).

Vibration when hot is another reason for filament failures.
But this would be obvious. Vibration and filament failure
would occur simultaneously.

Robert Greenwood wrote:

I have also heard of that light bulb that's lasted for 100 years.
I wish I had a dozen or more.

That was when people built quality products but if the bulbs
never burned out the companies wouldn't make much money.

I've seen advertisements for voltage meters that interface with
a computer and can log data, I think I'll buy one. I've put
off buying one because I have two Fluke voltage meters and
an older analog meter that I don't often use.

There are times when the refrigerator kicks on that the bulbs
dim for a few seconds and the microwave pulls down the
current sometimes.

I've tried an assortment of bulbs from cheap generic to
expensive brands and they all seem to last about the same
length of time.

I think the bulb manufacturers are making sub standard bulbs
so people will buy more bulbs.

 

[Robert Greenwood]

John Del wrote:

Subject: Re: Need advice

I suspect that light bulbs are more efficient when run near the limit
of filament failure.

Anyway, what I do is install sliding light dimmers on all my wall
switches, and physically shunt the slider to limit it to about 85% of
it's travel at the bright end. I haven't replaced the spots above my
fireplace in at least 5 years, whereas I was replacing them several
times a year.

John Del
Wolcott, CT

That's interesting. I'll give that some thought.

 

[L1ange bleu]

It is a possibility that the wiring in your house has a lot to do with this...I
think that the line feeding your light bulbs may be the same one feeding the
refrigerator or another appliance in your house that's time controlled. When
the applianceturns on and the light bulbs are "on" there will be a sudden
"kick" that will affect the bulb and decreases its lifespam. It may be
worthwhile checking this out as another reason for your headaches.
Alphie

 

[Asimov]

"w_tom" bravely wrote to "All" (19 Nov 03 16:02:12)
--- on the heady topic of "Re: Need advice"

In theory a halogen lamp should last forever but not in practice,
because of a number of factors. Lamps are made for vibration resistant
applications by adding many supports to the filament instead of just
being held at 2 or 3 points as in a normal lamp.


w_> From: w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com>

w_> Easy to make a bulb last 100 years. Again, the relationship
w_> between voltage and life expectancy was provided. Just lower
w_> the voltage or install high voltage bulbs (ie those 130 volt
w_> bulbs). Either will increase life expectancy but will also
w_> cause light output to drop by an exponential factor of 3.5.
w_> Decreased line voltage causes a major increase in bulb life
w_> expectancy (to power of 13) and an exponential decrease in
w_> bulb light output and efficiency (to power of 3.5).

w_> Vibration when hot is another reason for filament failures.
w_> But this would be obvious. Vibration and filament failure
w_> would occur simultaneously.

.... I worked hard to attach the electrodes to it.