neat power parts

J

John Larkin

Guest
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6scihn40t60qm7k/AADq46F-s7aBowSgcaVrIr_ua?dl=0

I'm still waiting for the Spice model for the 8078. I think I can make
it do positive to dual negative conversion.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
onsdag den 19. februar 2020 kl. 19.35.39 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6scihn40t60qm7k/AADq46F-s7aBowSgcaVrIr_ua?dl=0

I'm still waiting for the Spice model for the 8078. I think I can make
it do positive to dual negative conversion.
Click to expand...

https://www.analog.com/media/en/reference-design-documentation/design-notes/dn1021fa.pdf
 
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 11:35:39 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6scihn40t60qm7k/AADq46F-s7aBowSgcaVrIr_ua?dl=0

I'm still waiting for the Spice model for the 8078. I think I can make
it do positive to dual negative conversion.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Click to expand...

Those little switching regulators blow me away. They do take some of the fun out of on-board power supply design though.

The ripple could be better and sometimes the maximum load capacitance is a bummer, but they can really speed up some designs.
 
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 10:50:29 -0800 (PST), DemonicTubes
<tlackie@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 11:35:39 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6scihn40t60qm7k/AADq46F-s7aBowSgcaVrIr_ua?dl=0

I'm still waiting for the Spice model for the 8078. I think I can make
it do positive to dual negative conversion.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Those little switching regulators blow me away. They do take some of the fun out of on-board power supply design though.

The ripple could be better and sometimes the maximum load capacitance is a bummer, but they can really speed up some designs.
Click to expand...

They are very quiet too. The nasty circulating currents are mostly
local to the brick.

The 8078 is amazing, but it does need external caps. Neither the Spice
model nor the eval board seem to be ready.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 1:35:39 PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6scihn40t60qm7k/AADq46F-s7aBowSgcaVrIr_ua?dl=0

I'm still waiting for the Spice model for the 8078. I think I can make
it do positive to dual negative conversion.
Click to expand...

Upon first (quick) glance of the spec sheet PDF, I thought the MTBF was only 4.5 minutes. :)

Thankfully, it's much higher than that.
 
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 10:42:01 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

onsdag den 19. februar 2020 kl. 19.35.39 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6scihn40t60qm7k/AADq46F-s7aBowSgcaVrIr_ua?dl=0

I'm still waiting for the Spice model for the 8078. I think I can make
it do positive to dual negative conversion.


https://www.analog.com/media/en/reference-design-documentation/design-notes/dn1021fa.pdf
Click to expand...

We often do that here. But I want the cute little dual LTM to make two
different negative rails. I'd like to Spice that, because the BGA is
hard to breadboard.

I'd love to x-ray the LTM8078. How can they do that?

Does anyone have a high-res x-ray? Ours is a big parts counter and
doesn't have useful resolution for ICs.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
onsdag den 19. februar 2020 kl. 20.04.50 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 10:42:01 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

onsdag den 19. februar 2020 kl. 19.35.39 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6scihn40t60qm7k/AADq46F-s7aBowSgcaVrIr_ua?dl=0

I'm still waiting for the Spice model for the 8078. I think I can make
it do positive to dual negative conversion.


https://www.analog.com/media/en/reference-design-documentation/design-notes/dn1021fa.pdf


We often do that here. But I want the cute little dual LTM to make two
different negative rails. I'd like to Spice that, because the BGA is
hard to breadboard.

I'd love to x-ray the LTM8078. How can they do that?

Does anyone have a high-res x-ray? Ours is a big parts counter and
doesn't have useful resolution for ICs.
Click to expand...

try a dentist?
 
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 13:15:19 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

onsdag den 19. februar 2020 kl. 22.10.55 UTC+1 skrev whit3rd:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 11:04:50 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:

Does anyone have a high-res x-ray? Ours is a big parts counter and
doesn't have useful resolution for ICs.

But, an X-ray will only show leads and little squares where the silicon is.
It's not likely to distinguish wiring or doping, unless you first strip off the epoxy
and do fluorescence microprobing.

For the kind of resolution that would find component parts of an IC, you'd
have to hang out at a synchrotron next to the X-ray laser.

Better to use an electron microscope (you still have to strip the epoxy).
Either way, synchrotron or microscope, you're doing it with vacuum tubes.

http://www.pmdtkt.upc.smm.lt/dokumentai/Medziaga/inzinerine/mm12/Priedai/2_priedas.%2022_LGA_montavimo_rekomendacijos.pdf
Click to expand...

The inductors would be interesting in LTM8078.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
onsdag den 19. februar 2020 kl. 22.10.55 UTC+1 skrev whit3rd:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 11:04:50 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:

Does anyone have a high-res x-ray? Ours is a big parts counter and
doesn't have useful resolution for ICs.

But, an X-ray will only show leads and little squares where the silicon is.
It's not likely to distinguish wiring or doping, unless you first strip off the epoxy
and do fluorescence microprobing.

For the kind of resolution that would find component parts of an IC, you'd
have to hang out at a synchrotron next to the X-ray laser.

Better to use an electron microscope (you still have to strip the epoxy).
Either way, synchrotron or microscope, you're doing it with vacuum tubes.
Click to expand...

http://www.pmdtkt.upc.smm.lt/dokumentai/Medziaga/inzinerine/mm12/Priedai/2_priedas.%2022_LGA_montavimo_rekomendacijos.pdf
 
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 11:04:50 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:

Does anyone have a high-res x-ray? Ours is a big parts counter and
doesn't have useful resolution for ICs.
Click to expand...

But, an X-ray will only show leads and little squares where the silicon is.
It's not likely to distinguish wiring or doping, unless you first strip off the epoxy
and do fluorescence microprobing.

For the kind of resolution that would find component parts of an IC, you'd
have to hang out at a synchrotron next to the X-ray laser.

Better to use an electron microscope (you still have to strip the epoxy).
Either way, synchrotron or microscope, you're doing it with vacuum tubes.
 
On 2020-02-19, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 10:42:01 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

onsdag den 19. februar 2020 kl. 19.35.39 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6scihn40t60qm7k/AADq46F-s7aBowSgcaVrIr_ua?dl=0

I'm still waiting for the Spice model for the 8078. I think I can make
it do positive to dual negative conversion.


https://www.analog.com/media/en/reference-design-documentation/design-notes/dn1021fa.pdf

We often do that here. But I want the cute little dual LTM to make two
different negative rails. I'd like to Spice that, because the BGA is
hard to breadboard.
Click to expand...

That's probably why they have that breakout board.
https://www.analog.com/en/products/ltm8078.html#product-evaluationkit

It looks like it would work, but your middle voltage would be loading
the bottom voltage...

When I tried that same trick with a LM2596HV trying to make -36V from
+12V it made smoke instead. rather than risk more parts trying to
figure out why I found a different solution.

> I'd love to x-ray the LTM8078. How can they do that?

Do what? the datasheet implies that there's a 0.32mm thick PCB with
the semiconductors and the inductors mounted on it. it looks like they
used green solder mask.

Does anyone have a high-res x-ray? Ours is a big parts counter and
doesn't have useful resolution for ICs.
Click to expand...

how much do these things cost that you're not prepared to cut one
open?

--
Jasen.
 
On Thu, 20 Feb 2020 00:40:55 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
<jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

On 2020-02-19, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 10:42:01 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

onsdag den 19. februar 2020 kl. 19.35.39 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6scihn40t60qm7k/AADq46F-s7aBowSgcaVrIr_ua?dl=0

I'm still waiting for the Spice model for the 8078. I think I can make
it do positive to dual negative conversion.


https://www.analog.com/media/en/reference-design-documentation/design-notes/dn1021fa.pdf

We often do that here. But I want the cute little dual LTM to make two
different negative rails. I'd like to Spice that, because the BGA is
hard to breadboard.

That's probably why they have that breakout board.
https://www.analog.com/en/products/ltm8078.html#product-evaluationkit

It looks like it would work, but your middle voltage would be loading
the bottom voltage...
Click to expand...

We have the eval board on order, but everything is grounded, so it
can't be used as a pos-to-neg converter, much less a dual.

When I tried that same trick with a LM2596HV trying to make -36V from
+12V it made smoke instead. rather than risk more parts trying to
figure out why I found a different solution.
Click to expand...

We do this a lot

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yz6s8k0ng3jd314/LTM8023_Inverter.jpg?raw=1

and it always works. The extra ferrite beads are to keep switcher
noise down; there is delicate stuff nearby.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in
news:31b0afad-5e87-4690-a6f0-954923841ded@googlegroups.com:

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 11:04:50 AM UTC-8, John Larkin
wrote:

Does anyone have a high-res x-ray? Ours is a big parts counter
and doesn't have useful resolution for ICs.

But, an X-ray will only show leads and little squares where the
silicon is. It's not likely to distinguish wiring or doping,
unless you first strip off the epoxy and do fluorescence
microprobing.

For the kind of resolution that would find component parts of an
IC, you'd have to hang out at a synchrotron next to the X-ray
laser.

Better to use an electron microscope (you still have to strip the
epoxy). Either way, synchrotron or microscope, you're doing it
with vacuum tubes.
Click to expand...

Nobody reverse engineers chips any more. At least not anything
with any appreciable density. Too many layers. Too much cost and by
the time you finish, the chip you are trying to hack out is obsolete.
 
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 11:04:50 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
I'd love to x-ray the LTM8078. How can they do that?

Does anyone have a high-res x-ray? Ours is a big parts counter and
doesn't have useful resolution for ICs.
Click to expand...

No LTM8078s around here, but here is an LTM8049 from my parts drawer:

http://www.ke5fx.com/LTM8049_MX20_58256.146068_35kVp_15s.png

These are handy because they can be used as dual SEPIC or inverting
regulators, or any combination thereof. Especially good for those cases
where you want a given output rail that lies within the expected input
range. There is no drama or transitional behavior as the input voltage
crosses the output voltage, it just works.

-- john, KE5FX
 
On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 03:01:49 -0800 (PST), "John Miles, KE5FX"
<jmiles@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 11:04:50 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
I'd love to x-ray the LTM8078. How can they do that?

Does anyone have a high-res x-ray? Ours is a big parts counter and
doesn't have useful resolution for ICs.

No LTM8078s around here, but here is an LTM8049 from my parts drawer:

http://www.ke5fx.com/LTM8049_MX20_58256.146068_35kVp_15s.png

These are handy because they can be used as dual SEPIC or inverting
regulators, or any combination thereof. Especially good for those cases
where you want a given output rail that lies within the expected input
range. There is no drama or transitional behavior as the input voltage
crosses the output voltage, it just works.

-- john, KE5FX
Click to expand...

The older LTM bricks were LGAs, which didn't block the x-ray view like
the solder balls do. But then, they made shorts on the PC board.

Here's a SEPIC that's adjustable from 0 to +70 volts out, set with a
local pot or a customer input. What's useful is that it runs with
essentially a constant-power limit.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gc6g6g1cqbwnoh4/T770_Sepic_2.jpg?raw=1





--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

The cork popped merrily, and Lord Peter rose to his feet.
"Bunter", he said, "I give you a toast. The triumph of Instinct over Reason"
 
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