Mystery Component

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

TO-92 package

markings:

"650"
"B24"

I've got dozens of them. Wondering if I can use them for anything.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailtoaul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
How do I set a laser printer to stun?

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:16:28 -0800) it happened "Paul Hovnanian
P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote in
<qOudnZONqpmfbZTMnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@giganews.com>:

TO-92 package

markings:

"650"
"B24"

I've got dozens of them. Wondering if I can use them for anything.

Why not measure one?
PNP-NPN?
Beta
Build a curve tracer (Vce breakdown).



Oh, Ft..

 

[Oppie]

"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kedc83$8n2$1@news.albasani.net...

On a sunny day (Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:16:28 -0800) it happened "Paul
Hovnanian
P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote in
qOudnZONqpmfbZTMnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@giganews.com>:

TO-92 package

markings:

"650"
"B24"

I've got dozens of them. Wondering if I can use them for anything.

Why not measure one?
PNP-NPN?
Beta
Build a curve tracer (Vce breakdown).



Oh, Ft..

Quick NPN PNP determination with a meter in diode test mode. Allow for base
in center or to one side.
Fets show a body diode in reverse and touching the meter between G-S will
store enough charge to measure some forward conduction D-S. Grab the leads
with your fingers to drain the charge and D-S should look open.
Even nicer if your meter has a transistor tester function that gives a
figure of merit on beta. Nothing beats a curve tracer though. I've got a 30
year old sencore one.

Hard to say if it's a house number but looks like it. When you buy enough or
pay enough, vendors will private label. Saw that all the time when I worked
with mil-spec stuff.

 

[Frnak McKenney]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:07:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:16:28 -0800) it happened "Paul
Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote in
qOudnZONqpmfbZTMnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@giganews.com>:

TO-92 package markings:

"650"
"B24"

I've got dozens of them. Wondering if I can use them for anything.

Why not measure one?
PNP-NPN?
Beta
Build a curve tracer (Vce breakdown).

Which begs ( for ) the question: Has anyone attempted to develop a
method for identifying components simply from their characeristics?

Plug a BJT into a test socket, drive the pins, measure the traces,
feed the results into a database, and out pops...

"It's a 2N2222A, dummy!"

Hm... is there a way of testing ( say ) a BJT's BVce "gently", that
is, so that it doesn't _stay_ broken down?

Jes' curious.


Frank McKenney
--
Nearly every feature of the American system of manufacturing, from
the elements of the new textile machinery to the concept of
interchangeable parts, had actually been conceived earlier by
Europeans. But while a few Europeans could see the possibilities,
their communities kept them powerless to give their ideas a free
trial. Too many had a stake in the older ways. Industrial progress
in Europe required extraordinary courage to break the prevailing
pattern; in America it required a willingness to try the obvious.
American genius was less for invention or discovery than for
experiment.
-- Daniel J. Boorstin / The Americans: The National Experience
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:00:32 -0600) it happened Frnak McKenney
<frnak@far.from.the.madding.crowd.com> wrote in
<IKqdnThkxdPNIpfMnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@earthlink.com>:

Which begs ( for ) the question: Has anyone attempted to develop a
method for identifying components simply from their characeristics?

Plug a BJT into a test socket, drive the pins, measure the traces,
feed the results into a database, and out pops...

"It's a 2N2222A, dummy!"

Hm... is there a way of testing ( say ) a BJT's BVce "gently", that
is, so that it doesn't _stay_ broken down?

Jes' curious.

Ferry Lon Taim AGOH I designed and build a transistor curve tracer.
Was just not much work, and boss wanted one.
To keep dissipation in limits you need to use low impulse duty cycle.
It could find NPN or PNP automatically.
No micros at that time, just relays and logic,
output to a normal xy scope.

I am sure with a PC these days you could look up things in a database,
and have a better display.

 

[Frank Miles]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:00:32 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote:

Hm... is there a way of testing ( say ) a BJT's BVce "gently", that is,
so that it doesn't _stay_ broken down?

Frank McKenney

Sure, a real BJT (perhaps excepting some RF exotica) can be pushed beyond
BVce so long as current is kept low. You can see this quite nicely on a
curve tracer if you have access to one. I haven't heard of any problems
with devices "abused" in this way, not even MTBF.

BVeb is another matter. Breaking down EB junctions reduces beta,
increasing noise and may lead to shortened MTBF. Supposedly forward
biasing "anneals", but I don't know if it's completely reversible.
IIRC its a function of total-reverse-charge, so you should be able to go
into a very limited breakdown for a short time without "significant"
damage - perfectly sufficient for a tester.

-F

 

[Ian Field]

"Frnak McKenney" <frnak@far.from.the.madding.crowd.com> wrote in message
news:IKqdnThkxdPNIpfMnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:07:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:16:28 -0800) it happened "Paul
Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote in
qOudnZONqpmfbZTMnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@giganews.com>:

TO-92 package markings:

"650"
"B24"

I've got dozens of them. Wondering if I can use them for anything.

Why not measure one?
PNP-NPN?
Beta
Build a curve tracer (Vce breakdown).

Which begs ( for ) the question: Has anyone attempted to develop a
method for identifying components simply from their characeristics?

Apparently Peak-Atlas are marketing a (massively) upgraded version of their
3-terminal component analyser, it has a USB port for connection to a PC (I
think it may actually do curve tracing).

The original version I bought about a decade ago will at least tell you if a
device is transistor, MOSFET or just a pair of diodes - anything more
complex and it'll just report "unrecognised or faulty component".

 

[notme]

Apparently Peak-Atlas are marketing a (massively) upgraded version of their
3-terminal component analyser, it has a USB port for connection to a PC (I
think it may actually do curve tracing).

<http://www.anatekcorp.com/atlasdca75.htm>

 

[N_Cook]

Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:keehnk$jj7$1@dont-email.me...

On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:00:32 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote:

Hm... is there a way of testing ( say ) a BJT's BVce "gently", that is,
so that it doesn't _stay_ broken down?

Frank McKenney

Sure, a real BJT (perhaps excepting some RF exotica) can be pushed beyond
BVce so long as current is kept low. You can see this quite nicely on a
curve tracer if you have access to one. I haven't heard of any problems
with devices "abused" in this way, not even MTBF.

BVeb is another matter. Breaking down EB junctions reduces beta,
increasing noise and may lead to shortened MTBF. Supposedly forward
biasing "anneals", but I don't know if it's completely reversible.
IIRC its a function of total-reverse-charge, so you should be able to go
into a very limited breakdown for a short time without "significant"
damage - perfectly sufficient for a tester.

-F

Also how to tell you have a "digital" transistor in front of you?

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:42:07 -0000) it happened "N_Cook"
<diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in <keg607$60a$1@dont-email.me>:

Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:keehnk$jj7$1@dont-email.me...
On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:00:32 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote:

Hm... is there a way of testing ( say ) a BJT's BVce "gently", that is,
so that it doesn't _stay_ broken down?

Frank McKenney

Sure, a real BJT (perhaps excepting some RF exotica) can be pushed beyond
BVce so long as current is kept low. You can see this quite nicely on a
curve tracer if you have access to one. I haven't heard of any problems
with devices "abused" in this way, not even MTBF.

BVeb is another matter. Breaking down EB junctions reduces beta,
increasing noise and may lead to shortened MTBF. Supposedly forward
biasing "anneals", but I don't know if it's completely reversible.
IIRC its a function of total-reverse-charge, so you should be able to go
into a very limited breakdown for a short time without "significant"
damage - perfectly sufficient for a tester.

-F


Also how to tell you have a "digital" transistor in front of you?

WTF is a 'digital transistor'?????????????????

 

[N_Cook]

Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:keg7ft$lhg$1@news.albasani.net...

On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:42:07 -0000) it happened "N_Cook"
diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in <keg607$60a$1@dont-email.me>:

Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:keehnk$jj7$1@dont-email.me...
On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:00:32 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote:

Hm... is there a way of testing ( say ) a BJT's BVce "gently", that
is,
so that it doesn't _stay_ broken down?

Frank McKenney

Sure, a real BJT (perhaps excepting some RF exotica) can be pushed
beyond
BVce so long as current is kept low. You can see this quite nicely on
a
curve tracer if you have access to one. I haven't heard of any
problems
with devices "abused" in this way, not even MTBF.

BVeb is another matter. Breaking down EB junctions reduces beta,
increasing noise and may lead to shortened MTBF. Supposedly forward
biasing "anneals", but I don't know if it's completely reversible.
IIRC its a function of total-reverse-charge, so you should be able to
go
into a very limited breakdown for a short time without "significant"
damage - perfectly sufficient for a tester.

-F


Also how to tell you have a "digital" transistor in front of you?

WTF is a 'digital transistor'?????????????????

Exactly, thats how they are referred to in UK listings, and without any " "s

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Feb 2013 11:36:40 -0000) it happened "N_Cook"
<diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in <keg97i$he2$1@dont-email.me>:

Also how to tell you have a "digital" transistor in front of you?

WTF is a 'digital transistor'?????????????????


Exactly, thats how they are referred to in UK listings, and without any " "s

Well, cannot help you there,
but a transistor is a transistor, no matter what is written on - or about it.
A rose is a rose by any other name (to keep it UK related).

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Fri, 01 Feb 2013 11:04:10 GMT, the renowned Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:42:07 -0000) it happened "N_Cook"
diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in <keg607$60a$1@dont-email.me>:

Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:keehnk$jj7$1@dont-email.me...
On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:00:32 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote:

Hm... is there a way of testing ( say ) a BJT's BVce "gently", that is,
so that it doesn't _stay_ broken down?

Frank McKenney

Sure, a real BJT (perhaps excepting some RF exotica) can be pushed beyond
BVce so long as current is kept low. You can see this quite nicely on a
curve tracer if you have access to one. I haven't heard of any problems
with devices "abused" in this way, not even MTBF.

BVeb is another matter. Breaking down EB junctions reduces beta,
increasing noise and may lead to shortened MTBF. Supposedly forward
biasing "anneals", but I don't know if it's completely reversible.
IIRC its a function of total-reverse-charge, so you should be able to go
into a very limited breakdown for a short time without "significant"
damage - perfectly sufficient for a tester.

-F


Also how to tell you have a "digital" transistor in front of you?

WTF is a 'digital transistor'?????????????????

Transistor with base resistor(s) built in. Eg.
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/PDTC144E_SER.pdf


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 01 Feb 2013 08:06:21 -0500) it happened Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
<pbfng8d13hrf3ndshfkedirv49r7kfvigh@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 01 Feb 2013 11:04:10 GMT, the renowned Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:42:07 -0000) it happened "N_Cook"
diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in <keg607$60a$1@dont-email.me>:

Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:keehnk$jj7$1@dont-email.me...
On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:00:32 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote:

Hm... is there a way of testing ( say ) a BJT's BVce "gently", that is,
so that it doesn't _stay_ broken down?

Frank McKenney

Sure, a real BJT (perhaps excepting some RF exotica) can be pushed beyond
BVce so long as current is kept low. You can see this quite nicely on a
curve tracer if you have access to one. I haven't heard of any problems
with devices "abused" in this way, not even MTBF.

BVeb is another matter. Breaking down EB junctions reduces beta,
increasing noise and may lead to shortened MTBF. Supposedly forward
biasing "anneals", but I don't know if it's completely reversible.
IIRC its a function of total-reverse-charge, so you should be able to go
into a very limited breakdown for a short time without "significant"
damage - perfectly sufficient for a tester.

-F


Also how to tell you have a "digital" transistor in front of you?

WTF is a 'digital transistor'?????????????????

Transistor with base resistor(s) built in. Eg.
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/PDTC144E_SER.pdf

OK, but that is actually an integrated circuit.
Just mis-labeled 'transistor'.


You can still test those with a multimeter and lab supply.
On a curve tracer for transistors it would look strange I'd guess.

If you see reverse conductance in base emitter junction with an Ohm meter,
that would be an indictation.
If that resistance was the same both ways, more so.

I'd probably toss it

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 01 Feb 2013 13:17:42 GMT) it happened Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in <kegfaa$6al$1@news.albasani.net>:

OK, but that is actually an integrated circuit.
Just mis-labeled 'transistor'.

PS,
some of us here will remember RTL logic.
That was pretty much like that, but more transistors to make gates, and output R too.
Integrated circuits.

 

[Ian Field]

"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:keg7ft$lhg$1@news.albasani.net...

On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:42:07 -0000) it happened "N_Cook"
diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in <keg607$60a$1@dont-email.me>:

Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:keehnk$jj7$1@dont-email.me...
On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:00:32 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote:

Hm... is there a way of testing ( say ) a BJT's BVce "gently", that
is,
so that it doesn't _stay_ broken down?

Frank McKenney

Sure, a real BJT (perhaps excepting some RF exotica) can be pushed
beyond
BVce so long as current is kept low. You can see this quite nicely on a
curve tracer if you have access to one. I haven't heard of any problems
with devices "abused" in this way, not even MTBF.

BVeb is another matter. Breaking down EB junctions reduces beta,
increasing noise and may lead to shortened MTBF. Supposedly forward
biasing "anneals", but I don't know if it's completely reversible.
IIRC its a function of total-reverse-charge, so you should be able to go
into a very limited breakdown for a short time without "significant"
damage - perfectly sufficient for a tester.

-F


Also how to tell you have a "digital" transistor in front of you?

WTF is a 'digital transistor'?????????????????

Its a regular transistor with built in resistors - some are exactly
described that way rather than "digital", the most common arrangement is a
B-E bleed resistor + a base series current limiting resistor.

They are often used directly as an open collector inverter gate.

 

[Ian Field]

"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kegfse$7i4$1@news.albasani.net...

On a sunny day (Fri, 01 Feb 2013 13:17:42 GMT) it happened Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in <kegfaa$6al$1@news.albasani.net>:


OK, but that is actually an integrated circuit.
Just mis-labeled 'transistor'.


PS,
some of us here will remember RTL logic.
That was pretty much like that, but more transistors to make gates, and
output R too.
Integrated circuits.

My first job was component level fault finding on Olympia desk calculators,
they contained about 4 boards of DTL - a 5th board at the back was
critically sensitive MOS shift registers. The boards were about the same
area as S100, but wider & not so high, the front board had about a dozen
nixie tubes.

I must've just missed out on RTL by not all that long, it was only just
becoming scarce in component catalogues of the day.

 

[Ian Field]

"notme" <notme@notme.org> wrote in message
news:0001HW.CD303AB800FC093FB02919BF@news.eternal-september.org...

Apparently Peak-Atlas are marketing a (massively) upgraded version of
their
3-terminal component analyser, it has a USB port for connection to a PC
(I
think it may actually do curve tracing).

http://www.anatekcorp.com/atlasdca75.htm

Any idea what $169 is converted to GBP?

 

[Baron]

Ian Field Inscribed thus:

"notme" <notme@notme.org> wrote in message
news:0001HW.CD303AB800FC093FB02919BF@news.eternal-september.org...
Apparently Peak-Atlas are marketing a (massively) upgraded version
of their
3-terminal component analyser, it has a USB port for connection to a
PC (I
think it may actually do curve tracing).

http://www.anatekcorp.com/atlasdca75.htm

Any idea what $169 is converted to GBP?

Just over ÂŁ105.00p

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Feb 2013 16:46:09 -0000) it happened "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in <8jSOs.49465$MF.10418@fx05.fr7>:

"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:keg7ft$lhg$1@news.albasani.net...
On a sunny day (Fri, 1 Feb 2013 10:42:07 -0000) it happened "N_Cook"
diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in <keg607$60a$1@dont-email.me>:

Frank Miles <fpm@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:keehnk$jj7$1@dont-email.me...
On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:00:32 -0600, Frnak McKenney wrote:

Hm... is there a way of testing ( say ) a BJT's BVce "gently", that
is,
so that it doesn't _stay_ broken down?

Frank McKenney

Sure, a real BJT (perhaps excepting some RF exotica) can be pushed
beyond
BVce so long as current is kept low. You can see this quite nicely on a
curve tracer if you have access to one. I haven't heard of any problems
with devices "abused" in this way, not even MTBF.

BVeb is another matter. Breaking down EB junctions reduces beta,
increasing noise and may lead to shortened MTBF. Supposedly forward
biasing "anneals", but I don't know if it's completely reversible.
IIRC its a function of total-reverse-charge, so you should be able to go
into a very limited breakdown for a short time without "significant"
damage - perfectly sufficient for a tester.

-F


Also how to tell you have a "digital" transistor in front of you?

WTF is a 'digital transistor'?????????????????

Its a regular transistor with built in resistors - some are exactly
described that way rather than "digital", the most common arrangement is a
B-E bleed resistor + a base series current limiting resistor.

They are often used directly as an open collector inverter gate.

Thanks.
Spehro even gave a link to a datasheet.