Multisim simulation problem with RF

B

Blue News

Guest
Hi All,
Wonder if anyone could explain to me why I am unable to simulate a simple
(!) RF circuit using Multisim pro 2001. in fact it must be a fundamental
thing as I have tried it with another simulator and had the same results.
here is the link to the circuit:
http://www.geocities.com/x_file_space/fmt-1.gif
I have also tried the version with a resistor from the base of Q2 to ground
without joy - does not seem to want to oscillate. some one once mentioned
something about having to give it an initial condition first...maybe an
initial pulse or something?
Would that also apply to a crystal osc similar to the above?

Thanks very much
Sean
 
Blue News wrote:
Hi All,
Wonder if anyone could explain to me why I am unable to simulate a
simple (!) RF circuit using Multisim pro 2001. in fact it must be a
fundamental thing as I have tried it with another simulator and had
the same results. here is the link to the circuit:
http://www.geocities.com/x_file_space/fmt-1.gif
I have also tried the version with a resistor from the base of Q2 to
ground without joy - does not seem to want to oscillate. some one
once mentioned something about having to give it an initial condition
first...maybe an initial pulse or something?
Would that also apply to a crystal osc similar to the above?
Click to expand...
You may have to kick start the circuit. The simplest way to do this is
to make the power supply voltage a pulse with a long on time. You also
may need to make sure that the minimum time step is small enough. Most
oscillators, in my experience can usually start on their own. Al the
ones in my Demo SuperSpice don't need a kick start.

Try playing a bit with the values. Off hand, that 0.1uh looks a little
low. What frequency is it supposed to oscillate at? The bias is also a
bit suspect. There is approximately OV across the collector emitter of
Q2. Try putting a 10k from the base of Q2 to gnd.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

"That which is mostly observed, is that which replicates the most"
http://www.anasoft.co.uk/replicators/index.html

"quotes with no meaning, are meaningless" - Kevin Aylward.
 
Blue News wrote:
Hi All,
Wonder if anyone could explain to me why I am unable to simulate a
simple (!) RF circuit using Multisim pro 2001. in fact it must be a
fundamental thing as I have tried it with another simulator and had
the same results. here is the link to the circuit:
http://www.geocities.com/x_file_space/fmt-1.gif
I have also tried the version with a resistor from the base of Q2 to
ground without joy - does not seem to want to oscillate. some one
once mentioned something about having to give it an initial condition
first...maybe an initial pulse or something?
Would that also apply to a crystal osc similar to the above?
Click to expand...
I knocked up the oscillator bit, as is, in SuperSpice and it oscillated
first time without a kick start, although quite a long start up time (t
max step=1n, Ctune=10p). With a pulse turn on (tr=1ns, ton=large)it
started to settle down after about 500ns.

Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

"That which is mostly observed, is that which replicates the most"
http://www.anasoft.co.uk/replicators/index.html

"quotes with no meaning, are meaningless" - Kevin Aylward.
 
"Kevin Aylward" <kevindotaylwardEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

I knocked up the oscillator bit, as is, in SuperSpice and it oscillated
first time without a kick start, although quite a long start up time (t
max step=1n, Ctune=10p). With a pulse turn on (tr=1ns, ton=large)it
started to settle down after about 500ns.
Click to expand...
How about letting us see the circuit please Kevin?

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
Terry Pinnell wrote:
"Kevin Aylward" <kevindotaylwardEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:

I knocked up the oscillator bit, as is, in SuperSpice and it
oscillated first time without a kick start, although quite a long
start up time (t max step=1n, Ctune=10p). With a pulse turn on
(tr=1ns, ton=large)it started to settle down after about 500ns.

How about letting us see the circuit please Kevin?
Click to expand...
http://www.anasoft.co.uk/osc.gif - circuit
http://www.anasoft.co.uk/oscwave.gif - Waveform
http://www.anasoft.co.uk/osc.zip - SuperSpice schematic file


Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

"That which is mostly observed, is that which replicates the most"
http://www.anasoft.co.uk/replicators/index.html

"quotes with no meaning, are meaningless" - Kevin Aylward.
 
i think i got into this before with some one else.
that circuit is alittle flawed.
i am sure that it will osc once you get it going.
from what i can see the type of osc should be a
colpitts how ever. there is a slight error if that is the
case.
in order for an osc to start there must be some miss balance to
take place, this can be done by having a T section of capacitors coupling
the inductor. the center point is then looped back to the emitter.
most circuits usually have 1 cap aprox twice the value in the coupled
net work.. but still can be done with equal values.

http://www.mitedu.freeserve.co.uk/Analysis/colfr.htm

go there , you can see the second stage of what your trying to do.
you will notice the fee back into the emitter and biasing from the
audio pre amp to shift the frequency.
P.S.
also consider the transistor your using, it may not be sufficient for
the frequency your trying for.



Blue News wrote:
Hi All,
Wonder if anyone could explain to me why I am unable to simulate a simple
(!) RF circuit using Multisim pro 2001. in fact it must be a fundamental
thing as I have tried it with another simulator and had the same results.
here is the link to the circuit:
http://www.geocities.com/x_file_space/fmt-1.gif
I have also tried the version with a resistor from the base of Q2 to ground
without joy - does not seem to want to oscillate. some one once mentioned
something about having to give it an initial condition first...maybe an
initial pulse or something?
Would that also apply to a crystal osc similar to the above?

Thanks very much
Sean
Click to expand...
 
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