Multi-channel mixer design

[N_Cook]

After wrestling with (and bodging around) another batch of broken control
pots, no more meatier than presets , 10x11mm footprint.

I suppose the makers order the pots and then their footprint in the
hundreds, determines the overall amp footprint to a large extent.

 

[N_Cook]

Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:50e6726373dave@davenoise.co.uk...

In article <hkp9oa$v0m$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
After wrestling with (and bodging around) another batch of broken
control
pots, no more meatier than presets , 10x11mm footprint.

I suppose the makers order the pots and then their footprint in the
hundreds, determines the overall amp footprint to a large extent.

Pots even on very expensive pro mixers have always been a problem after a
while. The channel faders are made for a long life - or should be.
Nowadays it makes more sense to have solid state or software driven minor
controls. You can then use some form of rotary encoder if you want the
same sort of 'feel'.

--
*One nice thing about egotists: they don't talk about other people.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

From my limited experience rotary encoders are even more problematic.
I suppose touch screens is the way it will go. Saw some report about auto/
expert systems coming in , so no sound man involved at all

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <hkp9oa$v0m$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

After wrestling with (and bodging around) another batch of broken control
pots, no more meatier than presets , 10x11mm footprint.

I suppose the makers order the pots and then their footprint in the
hundreds, determines the overall amp footprint to a large extent.

Pots even on very expensive pro mixers have always been a problem after a
while. The channel faders are made for a long life - or should be.
Nowadays it makes more sense to have solid state or software driven minor
controls. You can then use some form of rotary encoder if you want the
same sort of 'feel'.

--
*One nice thing about egotists: they don't talk about other people.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <hkphkq$og9$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

From my limited experience rotary encoders are even more problematic. I
suppose touch screens is the way it will go. Saw some report about auto/
expert systems coming in , so no sound man involved at all

I use a Calrec assignable desk where most of the controls are shaft
encoders. It is way past its sell by date for pro gear - some 25 years
old, but they are generally reliable. Pots would have been changed many
many times in that sort of life - indeed it would have been scrapped long
ago because of things like that.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:50e678cb0adave@davenoise.co.uk...

In article <hkphkq$og9$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
From my limited experience rotary encoders are even more problematic. I
suppose touch screens is the way it will go. Saw some report about auto/
expert systems coming in , so no sound man involved at all

I use a Calrec assignable desk where most of the controls are shaft
encoders. It is way past its sell by date for pro gear - some 25 years
old, but they are generally reliable. Pots would have been changed many
many times in that sort of life - indeed it would have been scrapped long
ago because of things like that.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Agreed. Much domestic audio equipment these days uses rotary encoders
driving electronic volume controls and, whilst they do of course sometimes
give trouble, overall, I would say a lot less than conventional pots, and
I'm working on this stuff every day ...

Another very great advantage that they have over conventional pots, is that
they can have multiple functionality under software assignment.

Arfa

 

[Phil Allison]

"Arfa Daily"

Agreed. Much domestic audio equipment these days uses rotary encoders
driving electronic volume controls

** Which has got nothing to do with a multi-channel mixing desks using 100 -
200 rotary pots - all of which need to have their setting obvious at a
glance.

and, whilst they do of course sometimes give trouble, overall, I would say
a lot less than conventional pots,

** The cost of replacement is absurd compared to a simple pot.

Another very great advantage that they have over conventional pots, is
that they can have multiple functionality under software assignment.

** Fact is, they must have this feature to keep the total cost of a mixer
from becoming insane.

There is nothing wrong with the humble pot and linear fader, which unlike
encoders give * stepless * adjustment of levels with low THD and noise at
low cost.

Good quality ones with cermet or plastic tracks have an enormously long
life.


..... Phil

 

[N_Cook]

Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:7tbtejF24eU1@mid.individual.net...

"Arfa Daily"

Agreed. Much domestic audio equipment these days uses rotary encoders
driving electronic volume controls

** Which has got nothing to do with a multi-channel mixing desks using
100 -
200 rotary pots - all of which need to have their setting obvious at a
glance.


and, whilst they do of course sometimes give trouble, overall, I would
say
a lot less than conventional pots,


** The cost of replacement is absurd compared to a simple pot.


Another very great advantage that they have over conventional pots, is
that they can have multiple functionality under software assignment.

** Fact is, they must have this feature to keep the total cost of a mixer
from becoming insane.

There is nothing wrong with the humble pot and linear fader, which unlike
encoders give * stepless * adjustment of levels with low THD and noise at
low cost.

Good quality ones with cermet or plastic tracks have an enormously long
life.


.... Phil

I agree that the resistive tracks are far more durable these days, compared
to decades ago when it was often little more than a graphite pencil rubbed
on a bit of phenolic board.
Rare now to see a scratched track, even though they never seem to use
graphite pips on the wiper, but a metal contact.


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://diverse.4mg.com/index.htm

 

[N_Cook]

Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:50e6d12a87dave@davenoise.co.uk...

In article <7tbtejF24eU1@mid.individual.net>,
Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:
Another very great advantage that they have over conventional pots, is
that they can have multiple functionality under software assignment.

** Fact is, they must have this feature to keep the total cost of a
mixer from becoming insane.

With pro gear, reliability, longevity and reduced maintenance can be more
important than initial cost. We're not talking Behringer here. ;-)

--
*Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Is pro gear better protected from the effects of having beer etc spilt into
it?

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <7tbtejF24eU1@mid.individual.net>,
Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

Agreed. Much domestic audio equipment these days uses rotary encoders
driving electronic volume controls

** Which has got nothing to do with a multi-channel mixing desks using
100 - 200 rotary pots - all of which need to have their setting
obvious at a glance.

Not so with the design I'm talking about which has 96 channels. Discrete
faders for each channel, so about the same physical size as a
'conventional' desk. You have an assign panel where each channel is called
up by pressing a button on the channel. The panel then shows the channel
settings, and allows control over them. In a much more clear way than
trying to read or find a pot some way off, on a big console. It does take
some getting used to, though.

A conventional console of that size would have upwards of 1000 pots. ;-)
And of course switches which also wear out.

--
*I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <7tbtejF24eU1@mid.individual.net>,
Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

Another very great advantage that they have over conventional pots, is
that they can have multiple functionality under software assignment.

** Fact is, they must have this feature to keep the total cost of a
mixer from becoming insane.

With pro gear, reliability, longevity and reduced maintenance can be more
important than initial cost. We're not talking Behringer here. ;-)

--
*Not all men are annoying. Some are dead.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Dave Plowman (Fucking NUT Case)

Phil Allison

Another very great advantage that they have over conventional pots, is
that they can have multiple functionality under software assignment.

** Fact is, they must have this feature to keep the total cost of a
mixer from becoming insane.

With pro gear, reliability, longevity and reduced maintenance can be more
important than initial cost.

** Crap.

The usual life span of analogue desks is LESS than the typical life of good
faders and pots.

The life span of "digital" desks is far less than for analogue - cos they
become obsolete in only a few years as the technology and hence desirability
moves forward.

FUCKWIT


...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Dave Plowman Criminal Psychotic MORON

Phil Allison

With pro gear, reliability, longevity and reduced maintenance can be
more important than initial cost.

** Crap.

The usual life span of analogue desks is LESS than the typical life of
good faders and pots.

**Crap.

Pro gear can be ...

** But usually is not.


And have pots switches and relays etc changed more than once before
replacment.

** But usually no such thing ever happens.

I know this because I've done it...

** You know nothing - you LYING CUNT.

Amateur or semi pro stuff just doesn't get the same hammering.

** The CUNT had never seen is disco mixer in his fucking life.

The life span of "digital" desks is far less than for analogue - cos
they become obsolete in only a few years as the technology and hence
desirability moves forward.

FUCKWIT


A recording studio may well *have* to have the very latest as the clients
are so fickle.

** So does live sound re-enforcement.

You LYING POMMY CUNT.

This doesn't apply in near the same way to broadcast.


** The only app you know a single tiny thing about.

And the VERY SMALLEST of all users of mixing desks

- by FAR.

You LYING POMMY CUNT.



...... Phil

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <7tcuo3FullU1@mid.individual.net>,
Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

With pro gear, reliability, longevity and reduced maintenance can be
more important than initial cost.

** Crap.

The usual life span of analogue desks is LESS than the typical life of
good faders and pots.

**Crap.

Pro gear can be in use 14 hours a day 365 days a year. And have pots
switches and relays etc changed more than once before replacment. I know
this because I've done it...
Amateur or semi pro stuff just doesn't get the same hammering.

The life span of "digital" desks is far less than for analogue - cos
they become obsolete in only a few years as the technology and hence
desirability moves forward.

FUCKWIT

** F... Sorry, won't use that word here. But you certainly are one.

A recording studio may well *have* to have the very latest as the clients
are so fickle. This doesn't apply in near the same way to broadcast. Such
installations would be expected to have a life of 10 years plus.

--
*Who is this General Failure chap anyway - and why is he reading my HD? *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <hkrcbc$b5p$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:50e6d12a87dave@davenoise.co.uk...
In article <7tbtejF24eU1@mid.individual.net>,
Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:
Another very great advantage that they have over conventional
pots, is that they can have multiple functionality under software
assignment.

** Fact is, they must have this feature to keep the total cost of a
mixer from becoming insane.

With pro gear, reliability, longevity and reduced maintenance can be
more important than initial cost. We're not talking Behringer here.

Is pro gear better protected from the effects of having beer etc spilt
into it?

No - although in my job it's more likely to be coffee. The trick is to
wash it out as soon as possible, then dry out slowly.

--
*Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <7td9dsFs2aU1@mid.individual.net>,
Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

Amateur or semi pro stuff just doesn't get the same hammering.

** The CUNT had never seen is disco mixer in his fucking life.

I'm very pleased to confirm this. And by default to assume that's where
your 'experience' comes from.

--
*A day without sunshine is like... night.*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[bob urz]

Phil Allison wrote:

"Dave Plowman
Phil Allison

Another very great advantage that they have over conventional pots, is
that they can have multiple functionality under software assignment.
** Fact is, they must have this feature to keep the total cost of a
mixer from becoming insane.
With pro gear, reliability, longevity and reduced maintenance can be more
important than initial cost.

** Crap.

The usual life span of analogue desks is LESS than the typical life of good
faders and pots.

The life span of "digital" desks is far less than for analogue - cos they
become obsolete in only a few years as the technology and hence desirability
moves forward.

FUCKWIT


..... Phil

Considering a Yamaha PM1D was in production for over 10 years does not
seem like
a few years to me. It was just recently discontinued. The Yamaha PM5D is
probably the most universal desk out in the wild now. The best Digital
desk is debatable.

I would have to agree on the long term life time after a line is
discontinued. Where analog desks use many common analog parts, most
digital desk use mostly proprietary DSP's, gate arrays and such.
once the original OEM runs out of parts, cannibalization is probably the
only way to keep them going.

The musician grade market under 10 is a crap shoot. And now that midas
is owned by the Chinese, who knows?


bob

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <hks7is$vf3$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
bob urz <sound@inetnebr.com> wrote:

I would have to agree on the long term life time after a line is
discontinued. Where analog desks use many common analog parts, most
digital desk use mostly proprietary DSP's, gate arrays and such.
once the original OEM runs out of parts, cannibalization is probably the
only way to keep them going.

There can be problems getting pots and switches too for some analogue
makes. And they will be needed on most if heavily used.

--
*If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:7tbtejF24eU1@mid.individual.net...

"Arfa Daily"

Agreed. Much domestic audio equipment these days uses rotary encoders
driving electronic volume controls

** Which has got nothing to do with a multi-channel mixing desks using
100 - 200 rotary pots - all of which need to have their setting obvious
at a glance.


and, whilst they do of course sometimes give trouble, overall, I would
say a lot less than conventional pots,


** The cost of replacement is absurd compared to a simple pot.


Another very great advantage that they have over conventional pots, is
that they can have multiple functionality under software assignment.

** Fact is, they must have this feature to keep the total cost of a mixer
from becoming insane.

There is nothing wrong with the humble pot and linear fader, which unlike
encoders give * stepless * adjustment of levels with low THD and noise at
low cost.

Good quality ones with cermet or plastic tracks have an enormously long
life.


.... Phil

For the most part, again, agreed. However, I was talking more in general
about the overall situation of rotary encoders, and their uses, particularly
in *domestic* audio equipment. And the ones in those items are no
more expensive than a conventional pot. Multiple task assignment for the
devices, on that sort of equipment, is more a matter of aesthetics, than
cost ...

Arfa

 

[Phil Allison]

"Arfa Daily Fake TWAT "

For the most part, again, agreed. However, I was talking more in general
about the overall situation of rotary encoders, and their uses,
particularly in *domestic* audio equipment.

** See the heading ?????????????????????

FUCKWIT !!!!

And the ones in those items are no more expensive than a conventional pot.

** Utter BULLSHIT.

A pot does the ACTUAL business of attenuating the signal.

Wot sort of FUCKING IMBECILE are you ???




....... Phil

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:7tfoq8Fn7dU1@mid.individual.net...

"Arfa Daily Fake TWAT "


For the most part, again, agreed. However, I was talking more in general
about the overall situation of rotary encoders, and their uses,
particularly in *domestic* audio equipment.


** See the heading ?????????????????????

FUCKWIT !!!!


And the ones in those items are no more expensive than a conventional
pot.


** Utter BULLSHIT.

A pot does the ACTUAL business of attenuating the signal.

Wot sort of FUCKING IMBECILE are you ???




...... Phil

Aw, c'mon Phil. You know that we already all love you for your charm, wit
and massive intellect. You don't have to keep reminding us with every post
you make. We're with you old buddy. We appreciate what a terrible strain it
must be, knowing everything about everything, and being the world's leading
expert on every subject that there is.

Piss off and take a break. We'll not think any less of you for it ...

Arfa