Motor question

S

spamtrap1888

Guest
I'm too tired to reason this out; does anybody know: Can a motor
designed to run off 50 Hz successfully run off 60Hz? I dimly recall
that motors designed for one frequency will operate safely on the
other, but which way can you go? Assume I'm using the proper voltage
for the motor.
 
On 2011-12-06, spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm too tired to reason this out; does anybody know: Can a motor
designed to run off 50 Hz successfully run off 60Hz? I dimly recall
that motors designed for one frequency will operate safely on the
other, but which way can you go? Assume I'm using the proper voltage
for the motor.
Click to expand...
Most should work, but bear in mind that many of their parameters depend
on the frequency. What kind of a motor is it?

--
weland@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org
% grep me no patterns and I'll tell you no lines
 
On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 23:29:24 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888
<spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm too tired to reason this out; does anybody know: Can a motor
designed to run off 50 Hz successfully run off 60Hz? I dimly recall
that motors designed for one frequency will operate safely on the
other, but which way can you go? Assume I'm using the proper voltage
for the motor.
Click to expand...
Simplest explanation:

A small increase in frequency shouldn't be a problem other than the
possible speed increase..

Going the other way is more of a problem as the motor would not have
enough iron in it for the lower frequency.
 
"spamtrap1888"
I'm too tired to reason this out; does anybody know: Can a motor
designed to run off 50 Hz successfully run off 60Hz? I dimly recall
that motors designed for one frequency will operate safely on the
other, but which way can you go?
Click to expand...

** Synchronous motors will normally be OK at either 50Hz or 60 Hz.

This includes AC fans, turntable motors and workshop motors on bench drills
etc.

Thing is, 50 Hz equates to 230 volts and 60 Hz equates to 120 volts.

The motors will run 20% faster at 60 Hz - and maybe a tad warmer.



.... Phil
 
"Phil Allison"

The motors will run 20% faster at 60 Hz - and maybe a tad warmer.
Click to expand...
** A 60Hz design motor will run slower and warmer at 50Hz.



.... Phil
 
"spamtrap1888" wrote in message
news:ca815fe4-00cf-4301-b1c4-b2e3a707e43d@p14g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...

I'm too tired to reason this out; does anybody know: Can a motor
designed to run off 50 Hz successfully run off 60Hz? I dimly recall
that motors designed for one frequency will operate safely on the
other, but which way can you go? Assume I'm using the proper voltage
for the motor.

If it is a synchronous type motor, it will safely run, although a tad
faster: 6/5 x the design speed. Not usually an issue, other than the
slightly faster speed.
 
On 2011-12-06, Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"Phil Allison"


The motors will run 20% faster at 60 Hz - and maybe a tad warmer.


** A 60Hz design motor will run slower and warmer at 50Hz.
Click to expand...
Why warmer?

--
weland@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org
% grep me no patterns and I'll tell you no lines
 
Weland wrote:
On 2011-12-06, Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Phil Allison"


The motors will run 20% faster at 60 Hz - and maybe a tad warmer.


** A 60Hz design motor will run slower and warmer at 50Hz.

Why warmer?
Click to expand...

Magnetic saturation of the iron in the rotor and stator. It's the
same as transformer saturation at a lower than design frequency, if you
don't reduce the input voltage.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
 
Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"spamtrap1888"

I'm too tired to reason this out; does anybody know: Can a motor
designed to run off 50 Hz successfully run off 60Hz? I dimly recall
that motors designed for one frequency will operate safely on the
other, but which way can you go?


** Synchronous motors will normally be OK at either 50Hz or 60 Hz.

This includes AC fans, turntable motors and workshop motors on bench drills
etc.
Click to expand...
Fans and drills don't use synchronous motors. Old clocks/timers and
turtables/tapedeck might.
 
"Cydrome Leader"
Phil Allison

** Synchronous motors will normally be OK at either 50Hz or 60 Hz.

This includes AC fans, turntable motors and workshop motors on bench
drills
etc.

Fans and drills don't use synchronous motors.
Click to expand...

** OK - so they use " induction " motors, which spin at a speed
determined by the AC supply frequency but are not synchronised with it.



..... Phil
 
On Dec 7, 2:23 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"Cydrome Leader"

Phil Allison

** Synchronous motors will normally be OK at either 50Hz or 60 Hz.

This includes AC fans, turntable motors and workshop motors on bench
drills
etc.

Fans and drills don't use synchronous motors.

**  OK -   so they use  " induction " motors, which spin at a speed
determined by the AC supply frequency but are not synchronised with it.

....  Phil
Click to expand...
Years ago when I worked on military aircraft electronics we would
sometimes connect the lab clock up to the 115V 400 HZ supply. Who says
time doesn't fly on a Friday afternoon....Lenny
 
On Dec 7, 4:04 pm, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Years ago when I worked on military aircraft electronics we would
sometimes connect the lab clock up to the 115V 400 HZ supply. Who says
time doesn't fly on a Friday afternoon....Lenny
Click to expand...
In my youth I often puzzled why HP test equipment was rated to work
off 400 Hz -- why did the Air Force use that?
 
On 12/7/2011 8:00 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
In my youth I often puzzled why HP test equipment was rated to work
off 400 Hz -- why did the Air Force use that?
Click to expand...
Because the power transformers, filter chokes and capacitors
were smaller and lighter. Both very important things when
designing aircraft equipment.

Jeff


--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"
 
spamtrap1888 wrote:
On Dec 7, 4:04 pm, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com
wrote:


Years ago when I worked on military aircraft electronics we would
sometimes connect the lab clock up to the 115V 400 HZ supply. Who says
time doesn't fly on a Friday afternoon....Lenny


In my youth I often puzzled why HP test equipment was rated to work
off 400 Hz -- why did the Air Force use that?
everything was smaller at those frequencies..
Click to expand...

smaller and lighter.


Jamie
 
spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote in news:65ea6884-eee0-468b-
999c-08b692b15b02@18g2000prn.googlegroups.com:

On Dec 7, 4:04 pm, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com
wrote:

Years ago when I worked on military aircraft electronics we would
sometimes connect the lab clock up to the 115V 400 HZ supply. Who says
time doesn't fly on a Friday afternoon....Lenny

In my youth I often puzzled why HP test equipment was rated to work
off 400 Hz -- why did the Air Force use that?
Click to expand...
To save weight and power on airplanes.
And to have compatebility between ground- and airborne
equipment.
 
On 2011-12-07, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
Weland wrote:

On 2011-12-06, Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Phil Allison"


The motors will run 20% faster at 60 Hz - and maybe a tad warmer.


** A 60Hz design motor will run slower and warmer at 50Hz.

Why warmer?


Magnetic saturation of the iron in the rotor and stator. It's the
same as transformer saturation at a lower than design frequency, if you
don't reduce the input voltage.
Click to expand...
Ah, indeed. I forgot about this one, all I was thinking was higher frequency
should result in the motor running warmer due to increasing iron losses.

Thanks!

--
weland@sdf.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org
% grep me no patterns and I'll tell you no lines
 
Weland wrote:
On 2011-12-07, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Weland wrote:

On 2011-12-06, Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Phil Allison"


The motors will run 20% faster at 60 Hz - and maybe a tad warmer.


** A 60Hz design motor will run slower and warmer at 50Hz.

Why warmer?


Magnetic saturation of the iron in the rotor and stator. It's the
same as transformer saturation at a lower than design frequency, if you
don't reduce the input voltage.

Ah, indeed. I forgot about this one, all I was thinking was higher frequency
should result in the motor running warmer due to increasing iron losses.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You're welcome. :)

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
 
klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:
On Dec 7, 2:23?pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"Cydrome Leader"

Phil Allison

** Synchronous motors will normally be OK at either 50Hz or 60 Hz.

This includes AC fans, turntable motors and workshop motors on bench
drills
etc.

Fans and drills don't use synchronous motors.

** ?OK - ? so they use ?" induction " motors, which spin at a speed
determined by the AC supply frequency but are not synchronised with it.

.... ?Phil

Years ago when I worked on military aircraft electronics we would
sometimes connect the lab clock up to the 115V 400 HZ supply. Who says
time doesn't fly on a Friday afternoon....Lenny
Click to expand...
haha.
 
On Dec 6, 1:21 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"spamtrap1888"



I'm too tired to reason this out; does anybody know: Can a motor
designed to run off 50 Hz successfully run off 60Hz? I dimly recall
that motors designed for one frequency will operate safely on the
other, but which way can you go?

** Synchronous motors will normally be OK at either 50Hz or 60 Hz.

 This includes AC fans, turntable motors and workshop motors on bench drills
etc.

 Thing is, 50 Hz equates to 230 volts and 60 Hz equates to 120 volts.

 The motors will run 20% faster at 60 Hz  - and maybe a tad warmer.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Phil and everyone. I was concerned, because while I can get a
2:1 transformer to operate a constant-speed motorized appliance, I
can't easily supply power at a different frequency.
 
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