More Power To Ya

  • Thread starter Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun
  • Start date
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Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun

Guest
Someone posted a followup with a URL which has pictures of some really
unsafe situations. One of them is the one in the the following URL.
I can understand the loose screws are bad news, but the box with the
wire splices doesn't seem that bad, assuming they're spliced to code
inside.

What I question is whether or not the contraption illustrated by the
ASCII artwork below is any 'safer' than the contraption in the URL
below. I see this 'daisychaining' often under desks.

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/photo60.htm
(View the following with Courier font)

====
// \\
(| |) \\
.----------------------. \\ .----------------------.
====| | | | | | | | | | ===| | | | | | | | | |
'----------------------' '----------------------'
power strip 1 power strip 2 .. Etc.


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" wrote:
Someone posted a followup with a URL which has pictures of some really
unsafe situations. One of them is the one in the the following URL.
I can understand the loose screws are bad news, but the box with the
wire splices doesn't seem that bad, assuming they're spliced to code
inside.

What I question is whether or not the contraption illustrated by the
ASCII artwork below is any 'safer' than the contraption in the URL
below. I see this 'daisychaining' often under desks.

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/photo60.htm
(View the following with Courier font)

====
// \\
(| |) \\
.----------------------. \\ .----------------------.
====| | | | | | | | | | ===| | | | | | | | | |
'----------------------' '----------------------'
power strip 1 power strip 2 .. Etc.
Click to expand...
1) Both situations make it easier to overload the circuit,
but the one you drew provides 11 receptacles, while
the jpeg provides 12. Does that make it safer? I dunno,
but it is different.
2) The jpeg shows an uninsulated metallic jbox exposed where
it could be touched. A live wire inside could contact the
box, energizing it. Considering this is a homebrew project
already in violation of code, the box may very well not
be grounded. That is unsafe.
3) As mentioned, it violates code from the outset, regardless
of how it is wired. That automatically labels it unsafe,
prior to any "electrical investigation". As it turns out
the "electrical investigation" revealed loose screws
laying in the box, making it unsafe regardless of the
code.
4) Impossible to tell from the picture, but the cord from
the jbox with the male plug may be substandard.
5) The assembly has not undergone any testing by a recognized
testing laboratory like UL.


The electrical code avoids considerations of which
bad thing is safer and which is less safe. Per the
NEC, the one with the junction box is automatically
unsafe, for several reasons. It is improper use of
the jbox (not mounted to the building)(also, to my
knowledge, the jbox is not listed for use with flexible
cord); modification to the power strips and use not
in accordance with manufacturers instructions; the
fittings where the cord enters the jbox *appear* to be
improper (can't see them clearly, so I'm not sure of
that); and based on the picture, it looks like the box
is lying flat on the floor - which means there is no
ground screw.
 
Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote:

Someone posted a followup with a URL which has pictures of some really
unsafe situations. One of them is the one in the the following URL.
I can understand the loose screws are bad news, but the box with the
wire splices doesn't seem that bad, assuming they're spliced to code
inside.

What I question is whether or not the contraption illustrated by the
ASCII artwork below is any 'safer' than the contraption in the URL
below. I see this 'daisychaining' often under desks.

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/photo60.htm
(View the following with Courier font)

====
// \\
(| |) \\
.----------------------. \\ .----------------------.
====| | | | | | | | | | ===| | | | | | | | | |
'----------------------' '----------------------'
power strip 1 power strip 2 .. Etc.
Click to expand...
In one sense it is, because it limits the total drain: the breaker in power
strip 1 has to carry the full load of power strip 2 also.

In most under-desk configurations, the only devices that contribute appreciably
to the load are the PC and the monitor (desktop laser printers are another
story). When 5 of the 11 outlets have "wall warts" in them, each one blocking 2
outlets and drawing less than 30 watts, the total load is not a consideration.
It may be a physical hazard, with someone getting their feet tangled in the
rats' nest of low voltage wiring (printer, scanner, PDA, etc).

More about me: http://www.jecarter.com/
VB3/VB6/NSBasic Palm/C/PowerBasic source code: http://www.jecarter.com/programs.html
Drivers for Pablo graphics tablet and JamCam cameras: http://home.earthlink.net/~mwbt/
johnecarter at@at mindspring dot.dot com. Fix the obvious to reply by email.
 
Mr. Know-it-all to the rescue, here! ;-)

Sounds like Mr. Navy Safety is being somewhat of a nervous nellie.

Actually, it looks to me to be functionally equivalent to having
two power strips plugged into a "Y" adapter; this can also be
accomplished with a duplex outlet. And their plug looks heavy-duty -
it could be rated for 30 amps, as could the wire from the plug
to the box - they don't say one way or another. Just because something
looks crappy doesn't automatically make it unsafe.

If the internals of the box are unsafe, why didn't they show us that?

Your daisy-chain below isn't intrinsically unsafe - in fact, it might
afford a slightly greater level of protection, in that if power strip
2 is loaded to spec, that's power strip 1's whole rating, so the
"earliest" one in the daisy chain is more likely to pop the breaker,
deenergizing the whole array. :)

Cheers!
Rich

Watson A.Name - Watt Sun wrote:

Someone posted a followup with a URL which has pictures of some really
unsafe situations. One of them is the one in the the following URL.
I can understand the loose screws are bad news, but the box with the
wire splices doesn't seem that bad, assuming they're spliced to code
inside.

What I question is whether or not the contraption illustrated by the
ASCII artwork below is any 'safer' than the contraption in the URL
below. I see this 'daisychaining' often under desks.

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/photo60.htm
(View the following with Courier font)

====
// \\
(| |) \\
.----------------------. \\ .----------------------.
====| | | | | | | | | | ===| | | | | | | | | |
'----------------------' '----------------------'
power strip 1 power strip 2 .. Etc.
Click to expand...
 
In article <3F98980A.5ECF1986@bellatlantic.net>,
ehsjr@bellatlantic.net mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" wrote:

Someone posted a followup with a URL which has pictures of some really
unsafe situations. One of them is the one in the the following URL.
I can understand the loose screws are bad news, but the box with the
wire splices doesn't seem that bad, assuming they're spliced to code
inside.

What I question is whether or not the contraption illustrated by the
ASCII artwork below is any 'safer' than the contraption in the URL
below. I see this 'daisychaining' often under desks.

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/photo60.htm
(View the following with Courier font)

====
// \\
(| |) \\
.----------------------. \\ .----------------------.
====| | | | | | | | | | ===| | | | | | | | | |
'----------------------' '----------------------'
power strip 1 power strip 2 .. Etc.


1) Both situations make it easier to overload the circuit,
but the one you drew provides 11 receptacles, while
the jpeg provides 12. Does that make it safer? I dunno,
but it is different.
2) The jpeg shows an uninsulated metallic jbox exposed where
it could be touched. A live wire inside could contact the
box, energizing it. Considering this is a homebrew project
already in violation of code, the box may very well not
be grounded. That is unsafe.
3) As mentioned, it violates code from the outset, regardless
of how it is wired. That automatically labels it unsafe,
prior to any "electrical investigation". As it turns out
the "electrical investigation" revealed loose screws
laying in the box, making it unsafe regardless of the
code.
4) Impossible to tell from the picture, but the cord from
the jbox with the male plug may be substandard.
5) The assembly has not undergone any testing by a recognized
testing laboratory like UL.


The electrical code avoids considerations of which
bad thing is safer and which is less safe. Per the
NEC, the one with the junction box is automatically
unsafe, for several reasons. It is improper use of
the jbox (not mounted to the building)(also, to my
knowledge, the jbox is not listed for use with flexible
cord); modification to the power strips and use not
in accordance with manufacturers instructions; the
fittings where the cord enters the jbox *appear* to be
improper (can't see them clearly, so I'm not sure of
that); and based on the picture, it looks like the box
is lying flat on the floor - which means there is no
ground screw.
Click to expand...
Picky, picky, picky.. Okay, suppose the amateur electrician included
a fourth wire pigtail in the green ground splice, and then connected
the pigtail to the metal box.

Yeah, I know. That takes care of only one problem.

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
In article <np6hpvg73ek0j2q55rlm4h3mh02odtv6vb@4ax.com>,
look@message.body mentioned...
Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote:


Someone posted a followup with a URL which has pictures of some really
unsafe situations. One of them is the one in the the following URL.
I can understand the loose screws are bad news, but the box with the
wire splices doesn't seem that bad, assuming they're spliced to code
inside.

What I question is whether or not the contraption illustrated by the
ASCII artwork below is any 'safer' than the contraption in the URL
below. I see this 'daisychaining' often under desks.

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/photo60.htm
(View the following with Courier font)

====
// \\
(| |) \\
.----------------------. \\ .----------------------.
====| | | | | | | | | | ===| | | | | | | | | |
'----------------------' '----------------------'
power strip 1 power strip 2 .. Etc.

In one sense it is, because it limits the total drain: the breaker in power
strip 1 has to carry the full load of power strip 2 also.

In most under-desk configurations, the only devices that contribute appreciably
to the load are the PC and the monitor (desktop laser printers are another
story). When 5 of the 11 outlets have "wall warts" in them, each one blocking 2
outlets and drawing less than 30 watts, the total load is not a consideration.
It may be a physical hazard, with someone getting their feet tangled in the
rats' nest of low voltage wiring (printer, scanner, PDA, etc).
Click to expand...
Well, you hit that nail on the head right nicely. That's exactly the
way it is under most desks. I had to give one lady a few feet of
split loom tubing to keep the mess of wires under control.

As for the other followup that mentioned 6 versus 4 outlets, I only
did four for convenience. Some come with 4, but most of thm seem to
be 6 outlet strips.

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
In article <871mb.3860$I04.3575@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
spamdump@aol.com mentioned...
Mr. Know-it-all to the rescue, here! ;-)

Sounds like Mr. Navy Safety is being somewhat of a nervous nellie.

Actually, it looks to me to be functionally equivalent to having
two power strips plugged into a "Y" adapter; this can also be
accomplished with a duplex outlet. And their plug looks heavy-duty -
it could be rated for 30 amps, as could the wire from the plug
to the box - they don't say one way or another. Just because something
looks crappy doesn't automatically make it unsafe.

If the internals of the box are unsafe, why didn't they show us that?

Your daisy-chain below isn't intrinsically unsafe - in fact, it might
afford a slightly greater level of protection, in that if power strip
2 is loaded to spec, that's power strip 1's whole rating, so the
"earliest" one in the daisy chain is more likely to pop the breaker,
deenergizing the whole array. :)
Click to expand...
Or burn up in the process? Seen that happen, too..


Cheers!
Rich

Watson A.Name - Watt Sun wrote:

Someone posted a followup with a URL which has pictures of some really
unsafe situations. One of them is the one in the the following URL.
I can understand the loose screws are bad news, but the box with the
wire splices doesn't seem that bad, assuming they're spliced to code
inside.

What I question is whether or not the contraption illustrated by the
ASCII artwork below is any 'safer' than the contraption in the URL
below. I see this 'daisychaining' often under desks.

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/photo60.htm
(View the following with Courier font)

====
// \\
(| |) \\
.----------------------. \\ .----------------------.
====| | | | | | | | | | ===| | | | | | | | | |
'----------------------' '----------------------'
power strip 1 power strip 2 .. Etc.
Click to expand...

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
Whereas On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 03:36:36 GMT, Rich Grise
<spamdump@aol.com> scribbled:
, I thus relpy:
Mr. Know-it-all to the rescue, here! ;-)

Sounds like Mr. Navy Safety is being somewhat of a nervous nellie.

Actually, it looks to me to be functionally equivalent to having
two power strips plugged into a "Y" adapter; this can also be
accomplished with a duplex outlet. And their plug looks heavy-duty -
it could be rated for 30 amps, as could the wire from the plug
to the box - they don't say one way or another. Just because something
looks crappy doesn't automatically make it unsafe.

If the internals of the box are unsafe, why didn't they show us that?
Click to expand...
That's not the poin. The point is that box was used, which in this
application intrinsically unsafe.

Your daisy-chain below isn't intrinsically unsafe - in fact, it might
afford a slightly greater level of protection, in that if power strip
2 is loaded to spec, that's power strip 1's whole rating, so the
"earliest" one in the daisy chain is more likely to pop the breaker,
deenergizing the whole array. :)
Click to expand...
Rather than lighting an undersized core on fire.

Cheers!
Rich

Watson A.Name - Watt Sun wrote:

Someone posted a followup with a URL which has pictures of some really
unsafe situations. One of them is the one in the the following URL.
I can understand the loose screws are bad news, but the box with the
wire splices doesn't seem that bad, assuming they're spliced to code
inside.

What I question is whether or not the contraption illustrated by the
ASCII artwork below is any 'safer' than the contraption in the URL
below. I see this 'daisychaining' often under desks.

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/photo60.htm
(View the following with Courier font)

====
// \\
(| |) \\
.----------------------. \\ .----------------------.
====| | | | | | | | | | ===| | | | | | | | | |
'----------------------' '----------------------'
power strip 1 power strip 2 .. Etc.
Click to expand...
--
Gary J. Tait . Email is at yahoo.com ; ID:classicsat
 
I know in my state, the fire department would not allow either one in an
industrial setting! Don't want to piss them off, they are likely to bring
marshmellows instead of water when you need them!...Ross

"the Wiz" <look@message.body> wrote in message
news:np6hpvg73ek0j2q55rlm4h3mh02odtv6vb@4ax.com...
Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote:


Someone posted a followup with a URL which has pictures of some really
unsafe situations. One of them is the one in the the following URL.
I can understand the loose screws are bad news, but the box with the
wire splices doesn't seem that bad, assuming they're spliced to code
inside.

What I question is whether or not the contraption illustrated by the
ASCII artwork below is any 'safer' than the contraption in the URL
below. I see this 'daisychaining' often under desks.

http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/photo/archive/photo60.htm
(View the following with Courier font)

====
// \\
(| |) \\
.----------------------. \\ .----------------------.
====| | | | | | | | | | ===| | | | | | | | | |
'----------------------' '----------------------'
power strip 1 power strip 2 .. Etc.

In one sense it is, because it limits the total drain: the breaker in
power
strip 1 has to carry the full load of power strip 2 also.

In most under-desk configurations, the only devices that contribute
appreciably
to the load are the PC and the monitor (desktop laser printers are another
story). When 5 of the 11 outlets have "wall warts" in them, each one
blocking 2
outlets and drawing less than 30 watts, the total load is not a
consideration.
It may be a physical hazard, with someone getting their feet tangled in
the
rats' nest of low voltage wiring (printer, scanner, PDA, etc).

More about me: http://www.jecarter.com/
VB3/VB6/NSBasic Palm/C/PowerBasic source code:
http://www.jecarter.com/programs.html
Drivers for Pablo graphics tablet and JamCam cameras:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mwbt/
johnecarter at@at mindspring dot.dot com. Fix the obvious to reply by
email.
Click to expand...
 
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