Mnemonics

R

Roger Johansson

Guest
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/phase.html#c1

Above url is a great resource for learning the basics of electronics,
and many other sciences.

I note, however, that mnemonics are used, even when the value of the
mnemonics is very doubtful.

Eli the Ice man, is obviously such a mnemonic, at the url quoted above.

Here the practical value seems to be zero or less than zero.
It is a lot easier to learn how inductors and capacitors work,
and from that knowledge understand when the current lags
the voltage and vice versa, than to learn some complex
mnemonic phrase.

Using mnemonics is a remnant of religious teachings.
In religion you only have to learn to repeat stuff.
There is no need to understand anything.
You learn the holy texts like a parrot, and that was the most advanced
form of learning for thousands of years, as long as the church had
control over the education.

In lately secularized countries, like USA, the religious views on
learning is still strong, and has its influence even on scientific and
technical education. That is why mnemonics and acronyms are used and
loved so much by US-americans.

It is a way to tell the world: See how good I am, I have "learned"
this, I can repeat it over and over again.



--
Roger J.
 
"Roger Johansson" <no-email@no.invalid> wrote in message
news:xn0e42okjbdgg6y002@news.sunsite.dk...
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/phase.html#c1

Above url is a great resource for learning the basics of electronics,
and many other sciences.

I note, however, that mnemonics are used, even when the value of the
mnemonics is very doubtful.

Eli the Ice man, is obviously such a mnemonic, at the url quoted above.
Back when reisitors had color codes...

Here the practical value seems to be zero or less than zero.
It is a lot easier to learn how inductors and capacitors work,
and from that knowledge understand when the current lags
the voltage and vice versa, than to learn some complex
mnemonic phrase.

Using mnemonics is a remnant of religious teachings.
In religion you only have to learn to repeat stuff.
There is no need to understand anything.
You learn the holy texts like a parrot, and that was the most advanced
form of learning for thousands of years, as long as the church had
control over the education.

In lately secularized countries, like USA, the religious views on
learning is still strong, and has its influence even on scientific and
technical education. That is why mnemonics and acronyms are used and
loved so much by US-americans.
non sequitur

It is a way to tell the world: See how good I am, I have "learned"
this, I can repeat it over and over again.
 
Hello Roger,

Eli the Ice man, is obviously such a mnemonic, at the url quoted above.
Remember the transistor man from school? I always wondered why there
wasn't a transistor woman ;-)

Anyway, it can get worse. Maybe we like mnemonics more here in the US
than Europeans do. But when it comes to icons the Europeans can really
bring it "ad absurdum". Once I stopped at a traffic light in a European
car and a yellow light appeared on the dash. It had some kind of bone or
so on it. Called the dealer, described it. "Not the foggiest idea but if
it's yellow it is usually just a warning. Red would be bad. Have to
bring it in." he said.

It was a lamp indicating that the front brake pads are starting to wear
thin. On my car over here it simply says "Brake". Then everybody knows.
If someone doesn't understand English a simple dictionary will tell them.

Using mnemonics is a remnant of religious teachings.
In religion you only have to learn to repeat stuff.
There is no need to understand anything.
You learn the holy texts like a parrot, and that was the most advanced
form of learning for thousands of years, as long as the church had
control over the education.
That's not so. Only if you study scripture together with others, and
preferably together with someone with a theological background to answer
tougher question can you truly understand. Just think about a small
sentence in The Lord's prayer: "...as we forgive those who trespass
against us". The more we study examples from scripture and daily life
and think about it the more we learn that living by this rules is not
easy at all. But studies help us strive to live by it.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
In article <kZzwe.924$j04.431@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...
Hello Roger,

Eli the Ice man, is obviously such a mnemonic, at the url quoted above.

Remember the transistor man from school? I always wondered why there
wasn't a transistor woman ;-)
Perhaps transistor woman to explain P-type material?

--
Keith
 
Joerg wrote:

It was a lamp indicating that the front brake pads are starting to
wear thin. On my car over here it simply says "Brake". Then everybody
knows. If someone doesn't understand English a simple dictionary will
tell them.
There is a tendency from programmers and industrial designers to use
icons instead of text. I prefer text, just like you. I often change
icons to text if that is an option in a program.

Using mnemonics is a remnant of religious teachings.
In religion you only have to learn to repeat stuff.
There is no need to understand anything.
You learn the holy texts like a parrot, and that was the most
advanced form of learning for thousands of years, as long as the
church had control over the education.

That's not so. Only if you study scripture together with others, and
preferably together with someone with a theological background to
answer tougher question can you truly understand. Just think about a
small sentence in The Lord's prayer: "...as we forgive those who
You are talking about a very momentary situation. Using rational
thinking and discussing and understanding religious texts only happens
in the historical stage when rational thought is taking over from
religious thinking.
You are describing the era of secularization, not the era dominated by
religious thinking.

Secularization is what happens in USA today, it happened a hundred
years ago in Europe.

trespass against us". The more we study examples from scripture and
daily life and think about it the more we learn that living by this
rules is not easy at all. But studies help us strive to live by it.
You have _two_ books to learn to live by.
One was written by stone age people and has caused incredible amounts
of violence and suffering during the last 4000 years of human history.
The other one is the modern law and civilized rules, often created
through a hard struggle against the old system of gender roles and
mobbing, social domination, lies, symbolism and secrets.

Issues to ponder:
Dictatorship or democracy? Individual freedom or a totalitarian system?
Gender roles or fantasy? The holy matrimony or love of all? The holy
spirit or rational thinking? Rule of the rich or democracy? Is violence
okay to use as a problem solving method? Are threats okay methods?
Torture? More speed, or less?

How has the creationist religion influenced the human mind during all
these thousands of years?
What can we do to counter that influence and find real peace of mind?
How can we change the religious lifestyle which causes so much
suffering?

If we all tell the truth we can solve all problems.
...the whole truth, and nothing but the truth..

May the best arguments win.



--
Roger J.
 
On 29 Jun 2005 19:03:06 GMT, "Roger Johansson" <no-email@no.invalid>
wrote:


How has the creationist religion influenced the human mind during all
these thousands of years?
What can we do to counter that influence and find real peace of mind?
How can we change the religious lifestyle which causes so much
suffering?

If we all tell the truth we can solve all problems.
..the whole truth, and nothing but the truth..

May the best arguments win.
---
Seems you've forgotten that "Thou shalt not lie." was in that four
thousand year old book...

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
 
Hello Roger,

How has the creationist religion influenced the human mind during all
these thousands of years?
What can we do to counter that influence and find real peace of mind?
I find real peace of mind in it.

How can we change the religious lifestyle which causes so much
suffering?
Well, I don't want to change it. It helps me in easing the suffering of
others through ministry.

Injustice and suffering has often been inflincted (wrongly) in the name
of religion. By people that never understood what scripture really says
or who didn't want to understand.

The same is true for laws and regulations. Laws are a good tool in
keeping a society honest and respectful. However, sometimes their
interpretation by judges doesn't. The latest example: A high court found
it ok that local authorities can take away a house if someone else
builds something there that generates more in taxes. Obviously it is ok
to kick grandma out of her home. So far for the peace of mind.

Anyway, I guess we won't reach a common denominator here and it would
also veer off topic.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
Joerg wrote:

How has the creationist religion influenced the human mind during
all these thousands of years?
What can we do to counter that influence and find real peace of
mind?

I find real peace of mind in it.
Could you define in more concrete terms what it is you find "real peace
of mind" in?
Is it the creationist ideology, or the speeded mind which is the result
of the creationist system?
Is it the social processes, mobbing and strong convictions?
Gender roles which takes care of the foreplay, so you don't have to use
your own fantasy to have sex?
Or is it the power structure of the social field which creationism
creates?

What part(s) of the creationist tradition is most valuable to you?

How can we change the religious lifestyle which causes so much
suffering?

Well, I don't want to change it. It helps me in easing the suffering
of others through ministry.
So you want to uphold the rule of violence so you can use that violence
to do good?
You want to keep the people in mental slavery so you can have power
over them, so you can help them?
Don't you realize that it is the power system, based on violence, which
is the main problem? The strong people who rule do not realize that the
power they have is based on fear instilled in the minds of the less
fortunate. Fear and violence are fundamental parts of the creationist
system. You would not get that speeded state of mind, the holy spirit,
without fear and anger as the basis for the male personality.

Social life is not based on peace and rational thinking, it is based on
the same system we see in flocks of apes, where the young men are
running around screaming and throwing sticks and stones, to impress the
females and to scare each other. The creationist tradition conserves
and justifies a continuation of the stone age power system into a
modern time when we could have a much simpler and easier life style. It
would allow us to think clearer if we got rid of all this creationism,
all determined and grim male faces, all use of threats and violence as
methods to treat people.

We could let young girls grow up in peace, instead of throwing them out
to become very strong-minded love machines.
We could let boys learn about electronics and science instead of
forcing them to learn to fight and learn to be tough.

Injustice and suffering has often been inflincted (wrongly) in the
name of religion. By people that never understood what scripture
really says or who didn't want to understand.
Suffering is not a small side effect to religion, it is a central part
of religion.

What the scriptures from ancient history actually say is of less
importance to most believers. They like the lifestyle, the gender
roles, the creation of the eternal love, the creation of male minds,
the creation of female minds, the creation of the holy matrimony
(controlled by society), the creation of a dualistic society, divided
into "heaven" and "hell" (heaven and earth).

The same is true for laws and regulations.
The difference is that laws and modern civilized rules are not based in
a stone age lifestyle and ideology.
The rules we can agree on in democratic order are better than a stone
age ideology based on violence, and we can change them until we are
happy with them.

Laws are a good tool in
keeping a society honest and respectful.
That is not the purpose of the law. The purpose of the law is to
establish rules we all have to follow, so we get a society we can live
in. Controlling people's minds is a religious idea, which is not
supported by modern law.

"Living in the fear of God" is not a good idea in a modern world. Fear
causes violence, and that is the basis for creationism.

However, sometimes their
interpretation by judges doesn't. The latest example: A high court
found it ok that local authorities can take away a house if someone
else builds something there that generates more in taxes. Obviously
it is ok to kick grandma out of her home. So far for the peace of
mind.
The difference between law and religion is that we can always make the
law better, but religion cannot change, it uses the same rules as
people did in the stone age.

The actual content of the old scriptures, which very few people
understand and are interested in, is a long discussion about
creationism. Jesus and Moses were both big reformers of the system.
But they did not think far enough to abolish the system completely.
Moses invented the law, which applies equally to everybody, before him
the initiated could do whatever they liked to the non-initiated.

Jesus put forward strong criticism of the basis of creationism, but he
was assimilated by the church. They invented a story around Jesus,
creating a creationist story about him instead of what he actually said.

For example what happened after he had died, resurrection on the third
day, etc.. that is the creationist story they used to encapsulate his
own words which were so dangerous for the church.

Exactly the same happened in China. A great thinker, Lao-Tzu, wrote a
very good book against creationism. The creationists created a story
around Lao-Tzu, that he walked away and disappeared after writing the
book, etc.. which encapsulated his own words in a creationist container.

When he died his teachings were immediately transformed into a
worshipping religion, full of mysticism and creationism. It has also
made it difficult to find a translation of Tao-te-Ching which is not
bent beyond recognition by creationists who tried all they could to
change the book into a creationist message.



--
Roger J.
 
John Fields wrote:

How has the creationist religion influenced the human mind during
all these thousands of years?
What can we do to counter that influence and find real peace of
mind? How can we change the religious lifestyle which causes so
much suffering?

If we all tell the truth we can solve all problems.
..the whole truth, and nothing but the truth..

May the best arguments win.

Seems you've forgotten that "Thou shalt not lie." was in that four
thousand year old book...
It looks like you are just as interested in truth as I am.

So tell me, what main events in your life have shaped your mind and way
of thinking?

What do you mean when you tell a less concentrated and controlled man
that you "own" him? Please explain that.

What connections do you see between your real world and the creationist
ideology?

Do you see advantages of creationism, do you defend creationism?

What side are you on, and why?


If you ment to imply that I am lying, and it looks like that from the
quote above, please explain more specifically what you are thinking of.
I have no secrets or things I cannot afford to tell anybody about.

Do you?


--
Roger J.
 
Roger Johansson wrote:
Joerg wrote:
I find real peace of mind in it.
Could you define in more concrete terms what it is you find "real peace
of mind" in?
He's heretical, even in his own religion:

(Matthew 10:34) - "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth;
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Anyone who demands that the 'truth' should also settle the mind is just
indulging in wishful thinking.

No doubt the various catechisms of apologetics will show a way to squirm
out of that one, they've had 2000 years to work it out. No doubt it's a
Mystery, like the Trinity of one god, predestination, and why god wanted
to create in the first place.

Paul Burke
 
Roger Johansson wrote:
Joerg wrote:

How has the creationist religion influenced the human mind during
all these thousands of years?
What can we do to counter that influence and find real peace of
mind?

I find real peace of mind in it.

Could you define in more concrete terms what it is you find "real peace
of mind" in?
Is it the creationist ideology, or the speeded mind which is the result
of the creationist system?
Is it the social processes, mobbing and strong convictions?
Gender roles which takes care of the foreplay, so you don't have to use
your own fantasy to have sex?
Or is it the power structure of the social field which creationism
creates?

What part(s) of the creationist tradition is most valuable to you?
I've spoken with Joerg on this issue, and while I don't pretend
to speak for him he has echoed what most Xtians (and a few
Christians) say; it's the structure.

How can we change the religious lifestyle which causes so much
suffering?

Well, I don't want to change it. It helps me in easing the suffering
of others through ministry.

So you want to uphold the rule of violence so you can use that violence
to do good?
You want to keep the people in mental slavery so you can have power
over them, so you can help them?
Don't you realize that it is the power system, based on violence, which
is the main problem? The strong people who rule do not realize that the
power they have is based on fear instilled in the minds of the less
fortunate. Fear and violence are fundamental parts of the creationist
system. You would not get that speeded state of mind, the holy spirit,
without fear and anger as the basis for the male personality.
You forget that much of religion and philosophy (and science, for
that matter) are merely codifications of our hardwired behavior
patterns. Paternalism and the Nuclear Family are _not_ arbitrary
social constructs but rather biological imperatives.

We _have_ those patterns and imperatives, including gender roles,
whether or not you or anyone else likes it. Any religion or
philosophy (frinst Radical Feminism) that fails to take them into
account has negative worth as it tries to force us to behave in ways
we simply cannot.

Those that Evangelism is most successfully used on are those with
no structure or a flawed structure to their lives. Give them a
less-flawed structure and things start going right in their lives.
If it didn't work, it wouldn't have lasted so long.

Social life is not based on peace and rational thinking, it is based on
the same system we see in flocks of apes, where the young men are
running around screaming and throwing sticks and stones, to impress the
females and to scare each other. The creationist tradition conserves
and justifies a continuation of the stone age power system into a
modern time when we could have a much simpler and easier life style. It
would allow us to think clearer if we got rid of all this creationism,
all determined and grim male faces, all use of threats and violence as
methods to treat people.
What a lovely fantasy.

We could let young girls grow up in peace, instead of throwing them out
to become very strong-minded love machines.
We could let boys learn about electronics and science instead of
forcing them to learn to fight and learn to be tough.
Yep, a fantasy. We are hardwired to do these latter things.

Injustice and suffering has often been inflincted (wrongly) in the
name of religion. By people that never understood what scripture
really says or who didn't want to understand.

Suffering is not a small side effect to religion, it is a central part
of religion.
That's because suffering is a _real_ part of life. Finding that
out has obviously caused you to suffer.

What the scriptures from ancient history actually say is of less
importance to most believers. They like the lifestyle, the gender
roles, the creation of the eternal love, the creation of male minds,
the creation of female minds, the creation of the holy matrimony
(controlled by society), the creation of a dualistic society, divided
into "heaven" and "hell" (heaven and earth).
Male and female minds are not "created", by man or deity; they
simply are. Get over it.

The same is true for laws and regulations.

The difference is that laws and modern civilized rules are not based in
a stone age lifestyle and ideology.
The rules we can agree on in democratic order are better than a stone
age ideology based on violence, and we can change them until we are
happy with them.

Laws are a good tool in
keeping a society honest and respectful.

That is not the purpose of the law. The purpose of the law is to
establish rules we all have to follow, so we get a society we can live
in. Controlling people's minds is a religious idea, which is not
supported by modern law.
No, it isn't a religious idea. Go back to yout troupe of apes;
everybody obeys the alpha male for two good reasons. Short-term,
he'll whip your ass if you don't; long term, he knows how to survive
and so will you if you copy his behaviors.

"Living in the fear of God" is not a good idea in a modern world. Fear
causes violence, and that is the basis for creationism.
Nope. You're close though; fear causes caution and caution
increases the odds of survival.

However, sometimes their
interpretation by judges doesn't. The latest example: A high court
found it ok that local authorities can take away a house if someone
else builds something there that generates more in taxes. Obviously
it is ok to kick grandma out of her home. So far for the peace of
mind.

The difference between law and religion is that we can always make the
law better, but religion cannot change, it uses the same rules as
people did in the stone age.
Our brains and emotional hardware (adrenals etc) have not changed
over that short period.

The actual content of the old scriptures, which very few people
understand and are interested in, is a long discussion about
creationism. Jesus and Moses were both big reformers of the system.
But they did not think far enough to abolish the system completely.
Moses invented the law, which applies equally to everybody, before him
the initiated could do whatever they liked to the non-initiated.
And after him, slavery was codified but still legal.

Jesus put forward strong criticism of the basis of creationism, but he
was assimilated by the church. They invented a story around Jesus,
creating a creationist story about him instead of what he actually said.

For example what happened after he had died, resurrection on the third
day, etc.. that is the creationist story they used to encapsulate his
own words which were so dangerous for the church.

Exactly the same happened in China. A great thinker, Lao-Tzu, wrote a
very good book against creationism. The creationists created a story
around Lao-Tzu, that he walked away and disappeared after writing the
book, etc.. which encapsulated his own words in a creationist container.

When he died his teachings were immediately transformed into a
worshipping religion, full of mysticism and creationism. It has also
made it difficult to find a translation of Tao-te-Ching which is not
bent beyond recognition by creationists who tried all they could to
change the book into a creationist message.
Sigh. You might look into Buddhism about the remediation of
suffering.

To sneak back to the topic, mnemonics are a very useful
shorthand, but it's a good idea to occasionally re-examine the
longhand version for validity.

Mark L. Fergerson
 
Joerg wrote:
I find real peace of mind in it.
There is a small but significant difference between peace of mind and
*death* of mind. If your beliefs allow you to avoid the need to think
about a troublesome area, you have real peace, but also death of mind.

Injustice and suffering has often been inflincted (wrongly) in the name
of religion. By people that never understood what scripture really says
or who didn't want to understand.
By people with a book who think those without it cannot be right, while
they themselves cannot be far wrong. Lots of people, lots of different
books, same arrogance, same death of mind. Believe the book, don't think
outside it, make reality fit the book. Been there... never again.

Take responsibility for your own life, and don't hand over your life's
steering wheel to a book or to someone else with one.

Clifford Heath.
 
Hello Roger,

Let's not get too OT here, but I'll briefly answer since you asked.

Could you define in more concrete terms what it is you find "real peace
of mind" in?
In the fact that God is in charge of our life. I can talk to Him in
times of grief and also in times of joy.

Is it the creationist ideology, or the speeded mind which is the result
of the creationist system?
Is it the social processes, mobbing and strong convictions?
Gender roles which takes care of the foreplay, so you don't have to use
your own fantasy to have sex?
Or is it the power structure of the social field which creationism
creates?
Strong convictions, yes. No mobbing. It's got nothing to do with gender
roles even though Adam tried to pull that one off ("This woman here was
the one who deceived me...").

What part(s) of the creationist tradition is most valuable to you?
That God has created a wonderful world for us, then gave it to us to use
at our free will. But we must be good stewards and not mess it up.

Well, I don't want to change it. It helps me in easing the suffering
of others through ministry.

So you want to uphold the rule of violence so you can use that violence
to do good?
You want to keep the people in mental slavery so you can have power
over them, so you can help them?
There is no rule of violence that I follow. Never have. What our group
does is to be there for people in grief. Death of a loved one, terminal
cancer and so on. We mostly listen, and pray together. If you haven't
experienced that you won't know how much relief that brings to people.
There is no coaxing, influencing or whatever involved. And no, we don't
get paid a dime, not even for mileage.

We could let young girls grow up in peace, instead of throwing them out
to become very strong-minded love machines.
I can assure you that none of the female members of our Lutheran
congregation feel that way.

We could let boys learn about electronics and science instead of
forcing them to learn to fight and learn to be tough.
Fighting and be tough is not what the Bible teaches. It teaches us to be
there for the weak. BTW, kids (and not just boys) learn electronics even
at church. Guess who runs our computer and sound systems?

Suffering is not a small side effect to religion, it is a central part
of religion.
Not of the Christian religion. The central part is faith.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
Mark Fergerson wrote:

What part(s) of the creationist tradition is most valuable to you?

I've spoken with Joerg on this issue, and while I don't pretend to
speak for him he has echoed what most Xtians (and a few Christians)
say; it's the structure.
The social structure? Or the mental structure of the ideology which is
used to justify the lifestyle and state of mind?

Structure is organisation. In modern times we have developed ways to
organise the society which are built on individual freedom, human
rights, ruled by democracy and rational arguments in an open discussion.

But old power structures are still alive, and especially creationism.
They have no explicit formal power, but a lot of power in the social
field. Mobbing is common in schools, workplaces and homes.

Fear and violence are fundamental
parts of the creationist system. You would not get that speeded
state of mind, the holy spirit, without fear and anger as the basis
for the male personality.

You forget that much of religion and philosophy (and science, for
that matter) are merely codifications of our hardwired behavior
patterns. Paternalism and the Nuclear Family are not arbitrary social
constructs but rather biological imperatives.
Man's nature is the final, and often the only argument for creationism.

There is a lot of training going on in the creationist society.
Would we really need that much mental and social training if we lived
naturally?

Creationism is a method for getting high. Love is made into a drug by
social methods, controlled by traditions and religion. The training of
both girls and boys is done for the ultimate goal that the man gets
high on love and power.

It originated from nature, but it _is_ not nature, it has become a
religion, a set of traditions, a lifestyle.
The creationist system has been criticized for thousands of years, but
the rulers, kings and emperors, generals and politicians, have found it
useful for controlling the people, so the system has long ago left what
is natural and has become a political power structure.


The girls get high from love too, but they are not trained to be
constantly ready for exposure to violence, so they get shy if they go
outside when they are newly married. Fear can take many forms before it
is realized as fear.

Men love girls, because girls are more natural than men. Girls love
children and pets, because children and pets are more natural than
girls.

In the western countries we now see a project which wants to abolish
the patriarchal society, abolish the "man's" society by making
everybody into men. Women and children and all jesuses are going to be
trained in constant readyness to fight. One of the first movies in this
tendency was "Home alone", a young boy is home alone and has to defend
the house against robbers.

This idea does not seem to work so well, the alcohol consumption is
going up instead of down. Well, it was a stupid idea to begin with. It
would be much better to abolish the male mind, the holy spirit, the
violence, the need for speed.


We have those patterns and imperatives, including gender roles,
whether or not you or anyone else likes it.
We have actually been very successful in taking our society out of the
hands of the church, during the last hundreds of years. We have removed
all old religious crap from our official law in most countries in the
world. We have beaten the theists intellectually and thrown them out of
science and philosophy. Or they left voluntarily, they realized that
they couldn't win the discussion. The more they talked the more they
lost.

Social life is not based on peace and rational thinking, it is
based on the same system we see in flocks of apes, where the young
men are running around screaming and throwing sticks and stones, to
impress the females and to scare each other. The creationist
tradition conserves and justifies a continuation of the stone age
power system into a modern time when we could have a much simpler
and easier life style. It would allow us to think clearer if we got
rid of all this creationism, all determined and grim male faces,
all use of threats and violence as methods to treat people.

What a lovely fantasy.
Well, it is lovely, compared to your usual references, obviously, and
it sounds like a fantasy compared to your usual references. So, what
are your usual references made up of?

Did you grow up with parents in love? I did.
Did you go to school with other kids who were also brought up in fear
of God (the father)?
Did you learn social stuff from the schoolbooks or from your class
mates?

By the way, what is fantasy and what is reality in the theoretical world
is determined by who wins the argument. During the last hundreds of
years the religious side has lost every debate against science and
rational thought. And they will lose this one too.

We could let young girls grow up in peace, instead of throwing them
out to become very strong-minded love machines.
We could let boys learn about electronics and science instead of
forcing them to learn to fight and learn to be tough.

Yep, a fantasy. We are hardwired to do these latter things.
If we really were hardwired for the creationist system there would be
no opposition. We would have lived in a stable theocratic society for
thousands of years. But we haven't. We have struggled for thousands of
years to change the system and we have been very successful, officially
the church has lost all power and very few go to the church.

In the secularized countries you typically come to church only twice in
your life, when you marry and when you die.
The church has the same position as the royalty, they are museum
pieces, tourist attractions, a pretty background for a wedding, but
they have no power in society whatsoever.

The problem is that the social traditions are still kept alive, and
they invent new justifying ideologies when older ideas

That is not the purpose of the law. The purpose of the law is to
establish rules we all have to follow, so we get a society we can
live in. Controlling people's minds is a religious idea, which is
not supported by modern law.

No, it isn't a religious idea. Go back to yout troupe of apes;
everybody obeys the alpha male for two good reasons. Short-term,
he'll whip your ass if you don't; long term, he knows how to survive
and so will you if you copy his behaviors.
Maybe you haven't heard about modern alternatives to creationism.
Democracy instead of dictatorship, human rights for all instead of all
rights to the initiated and no rights to non-initiated. Equality
between man and woman. Solving problems with discussions instead of
referring to human nature or whatever religious ideas originating from
the creationists.

"Living in the fear of God" is not a good idea in a modern world.
Fear causes violence, and that is the basis for creationism.

Nope. You're close though; fear causes caution and caution increases
the odds of survival.
If the fear is too strong it can even lead to ulcers, heart problems,
overeating, bulemia, the use of alcohol, tobacco, etc..

It looks like the fear is already too strong for the human body, not to
speak about what it has done to our minds, but
the media channels keep pouring out more excitement and fear every day.
The media channels are controlled by creationists who are not thinking
too clearly.

They typically attack one prejudice and amplify a thousand others.
To make money the movies have to make millions of creationists happy,
so they mix in 1 percent new material and 99 percent old stuff from the
Old Testament.



--
Roger J.
 
Clifford Heath wrote:

There is a small but significant difference between peace of mind and
*death* of mind. If your beliefs allow you to avoid the need to think
about a troublesome area, you have real peace, but also death of mind.
Yes.
Creationism creates a state of mind which is constantly excited.
If you lose speed you get into trouble with your own mind.
The reason is that creationism is built upon will power.

That is the reason for all stimulantia people use. Alcohol, tobacco,
coffee, amphetamine, chewing gum, spices, garlic, etc..

That speeded state of mind can also be painful, if you have painful
social memories under the conviction.
That is the reason why people consume so much pain killers.

This is also the reason for all the violence and threatening situations
we see on tv. Every night you can see dozens of murders, hundreds
of threatening talk and staring in each other faces with a grim look,
thousands of raised voices and foul words.

There is a strong need for exciting factors in the creationist society.

What is so dangerous with slowing down, relaxing,
resting, coming to peace?

They have transcended the human mind, but they cannot afford to slow
down and relax. Because they cheated, they did not achieve peace of
mind through making the society better, by solving problems, they
achieved peace of mind by getting used to being constantly excited.

If somebody who really has peace of mind shows up, do they love him for
sharing his mind with them?
Nope. They call him "Jesus", "kid", and beat him up and crucify him.

The male honor must be defended.
Boys must grow up, become more and more angry until they are dangerous
and get some respect, and the girls start chasing them.

A lot of men actually grow up to men, learn to control a lot of anger,
and then they are convinced by strong willed girls into believing that
everything is perfect. A nice concussion.
Wish I had one right now, actually.

But other men are less fortunate, and become alcoholics, criminals,
murderers, wife beaters, insane, physically ill, etc..

The state of mind men walk around with is a good thing for governments.
If they need to send the men to war they are already prepared mentally,
they live with fear and anger no matter if it is peace or war.
It also makes ruling so much easier, when the majority of the people
are fully occupied with controlling their excited minds and controlling
the social environment. The people keep each other occupied and under
control.

Such strong minds, trained minds which have gotten used to violence,
have a bad influence on others. Growing up in the mental shadow of a
tough father results in a chronically excited mind, constantly dreaming
to defend itself. Yet, they manage to see this influence as a positive
factor, "you want your kids to have their fathers name, don't you?".


--
Roger J.
 
Hello Roger,

This is also the reason for all the violence and threatening situations
we see on tv. Every night you can see dozens of murders, hundreds
of threatening talk and staring in each other faces with a grim look,
thousands of raised voices and foul words.

There is a strong need for exciting factors in the creationist society.
Ok, even if it is off topic, I have to ask you this one: Why then is it
that in our neighborhood all Christians I know (and that's quite a lot
of people) resent this violent stuff on TV and never watch it? And why
are a lot of non-Christians in our neighborhood watching it with great
desire?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 20:06:51 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Roger,

This is also the reason for all the violence and threatening situations
we see on tv. Every night you can see dozens of murders, hundreds
of threatening talk and staring in each other faces with a grim look,
thousands of raised voices and foul words.

There is a strong need for exciting factors in the creationist society.

Ok, even if it is off topic, I have to ask you this one: Why then is it
that in our neighborhood all Christians I know (and that's quite a lot
of people) resent this violent stuff on TV and never watch it? And why
are a lot of non-Christians in our neighborhood watching it with great
desire?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
A lot of us non-Christians (aka atheists) aren't watching it either.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Hello Jim,

Ok, even if it is off topic, I have to ask you this one: Why then is it
that in our neighborhood all Christians I know (and that's quite a lot
of people) resent this violent stuff on TV and never watch it? And why
are a lot of non-Christians in our neighborhood watching it with great
desire?

A lot of us non-Christians (aka atheists) aren't watching it either.
Yes, that's why I said a lot. Not "all". We do have a lot of
non-Christian friends here who are really nice people, with values and
integrity. Same with people of other religions.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
 
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 20:24:48 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Jim,

Ok, even if it is off topic, I have to ask you this one: Why then is it
that in our neighborhood all Christians I know (and that's quite a lot
of people) resent this violent stuff on TV and never watch it? And why
are a lot of non-Christians in our neighborhood watching it with great
desire?

A lot of us non-Christians (aka atheists) aren't watching it either.

Yes, that's why I said a lot. Not "all". We do have a lot of
non-Christian friends here who are really nice people, with values and
integrity. Same with people of other religions.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
I think I've related here before the situation where a "Christian"
neighbor said she couldn't understand why my four children were so
well-behaved, since they didn't go to church. I threw her out of the
house ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Hello Jim,

I think I've related here before the situation where a "Christian"
neighbor said she couldn't understand why my four children were so
well-behaved, since they didn't go to church. I threw her out of the
house ;-)
Yes, I remember that. That was an arrogant statement by your neighbor.
Very non-Christian, too, since boasting and placing her own circle of
friends or the congregation in general above other groups in a "holier
than thou" manner is a big no-no.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
 

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