mineral oil

[Arpit]

hi, im gonna make a high voltage generator, with 2 auto ignition coils
producing 120kv with an input of about 5000 watts. A documented
problem with theis setup is that the oil inside the coils starts
boiling quite quickly. SO I was thibnking,


a. How do they produce hi voltage generators for sustainable use?

b. WOuld immersing the coils in mineral oil help?

c. WHere can I get mineral oil (without drilling a hole in the local
pole transformer) and how much would it cost

d. COuld I use kerosene or canola oil?

Thanks

 

[Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun]

In article <kl23lvc0bs4mojubnl0sn37kdk2jqgi7bi@4ax.com>,
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au mentioned...

hi, im gonna make a high voltage generator, with 2 auto ignition coils
producing 120kv with an input of about 5000 watts. A documented
problem with theis setup is that the oil inside the coils starts
boiling quite quickly. SO I was thibnking,


a. How do they produce hi voltage generators for sustainable use?

With careful design to prevent arcing. BTW, is your life insurance
paid up?

b. WOuld immersing the coils in mineral oil help?

The coil is already immersed in mineral oil inside the can. Buy one
with the fins on it to dissipate the heat.

c. WHere can I get mineral oil (without drilling a hole in the local
pole transformer) and how much would it cost

With your luck, you'd drill a hole in a pole pig that's filled with
PCB laden oil. Oops! If I were you, I'd ask these questions on one
of the tesla coil builders' forums where they make their own high
voltage capacitors. They immerse those in mineral oil. And they have
some practical tips on dealing with high joltages. Also, do a google
search for Marx generators. Here are a few.
http://hibp.ecse.rpi.edu/~leij/febetron/marx.html
http://members.tm.net/lapointe/MarxMain.html

d. COuld I use kerosene or canola oil?

Probably not pure enough, and wouldn't have the high dielectric
strength. Besides, it burns. :-O

Thanks

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[Mjolinor]

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.19bb6c93e357f0bc9896a3@news.dslextreme.com...

In article <kl23lvc0bs4mojubnl0sn37kdk2jqgi7bi@4ax.com>,
DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au mentioned...
hi, im gonna make a high voltage generator, with 2 auto ignition coils
producing 120kv with an input of about 5000 watts. A documented
problem with theis setup is that the oil inside the coils starts
boiling quite quickly. SO I was thibnking,


a. How do they produce hi voltage generators for sustainable use?

With careful design to prevent arcing. BTW, is your life insurance
paid up?

b. WOuld immersing the coils in mineral oil help?

The coil is already immersed in mineral oil inside the can. Buy one
with the fins on it to dissipate the heat.

c. WHere can I get mineral oil (without drilling a hole in the local
pole transformer) and how much would it cost

With your luck, you'd drill a hole in a pole pig that's filled with
PCB laden oil. Oops! If I were you, I'd ask these questions on one
of the tesla coil builders' forums where they make their own high
voltage capacitors. They immerse those in mineral oil. And they have
some practical tips on dealing with high joltages. Also, do a google
search for Marx generators. Here are a few.
http://hibp.ecse.rpi.edu/~leij/febetron/marx.html
http://members.tm.net/lapointe/MarxMain.html

d. COuld I use kerosene or canola oil?

Probably not pure enough, and wouldn't have the high dielectric
strength. Besides, it burns. :-O

Thanks

If you drive an ignition coil with a sine wave it will not last long. They
are not rated for continuous use.

It is unlikly that you will find any oil other than the proper stuff that
will do your job. The main reason for this is the purity of the oil. The oil
used in electrical transformers and switchgear is seriously pure.

 

[Fred Abse]

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 06:42:30 +0100, Arpit wrote:

hi, im gonna make a high voltage generator, with 2 auto ignition coils
producing 120kv with an input of about 5000 watts. A documented problem
with theis setup is that the oil inside the coils starts boiling quite
quickly. SO I was thibnking,


a. How do they produce hi voltage generators for sustainable use?

By spending *lots* of money on special insulation, cables, components,
transformers, and product liability insurance.

A 120kV, 5kW PSU would probably set you back 5 figures (If they'll sell
you one).

b. WOuld immersing the coils in mineral oil help?

If it's water-free, high-voltage transformer oil, certified for use at
120kV with the proper separation of conductors, and circulated cooling,
since you'll get heating due to dielectric losses. You'll need to change
it every few months. You'd probably be better using air insulation, but it
needs to be dry air. Better still, vacuum.

c. WHere can I get mineral oil (without drilling a hole in the local
pole transformer) and how much would it cost.

Specialist oil suppliers. A grade good enough to do what you want will
cost plenty.

d. COuld I use kerosene or canola oil?

Not unless you want to die in a particularly nasty way.

I wouldn't advise taking on a project like this unless you are an
experienced engineer and know what precautions to take. I certainly
wouldn't even put a graduate on it without experienced supervision. This
is serious shit.

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
nofr@sbhevre.pbzchyvax.pb.hx

 

Fred Abse <excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 06:42:30 +0100, Arpit wrote:

hi, im gonna make a high voltage generator, with 2 auto ignition coils
producing 120kv with an input of about 5000 watts. A documented problem
with theis setup is that the oil inside the coils starts boiling quite
quickly. SO I was thibnking,
a. How do they produce hi voltage generators for sustainable use?

By spending *lots* of money on special insulation, cables, components,
transformers, and product liability insurance.

A 120kV, 5kW PSU would probably set you back 5 figures (If they'll sell
you one).

ABEX have some second hand glassman stuff with external stack that is in
the required zone. http://www.abex.co.uk I do not think that any ignition
coil I have ever seen is rated for 2.5KW, I doubt your approach will work.

Also you occasionally see Xray transformers on EBAY which may be a better
way to go.

I wouldn't advise taking on a project like this unless you are an
experienced engineer and know what precautions to take. I certainly
wouldn't even put a graduate on it without experienced supervision. This
is serious shit.

Indeed, plenty of ways to die spectacularly here.

Regards, Dan.
--
** The email address *IS* valid, do NOT remove the spamblock
And on the evening of the first day the lord said...........
..... LX 1, GO!; and there was light.

 

[Jerry G.]

You can get mineral oil at the local pharmacy in quart or pint sizes.

It is possible to make power supplies and power transformers up in the
many hundreds of kV's. The power companies are doing this for the mass
power distribution around the county. They do not use ignition coils,
food oils, or fuel oils.

Oil cooling is used in many of the large transformers. The oil has a
lot of mass, and is hard to heat up. There are a number of types of oils
that have been developed for this purpose. When overheated or hot, oil
is very difficult to cool down!

When making oil cooled transformers, there has to be no contact with the
air. The oxygen component is a factor to consider. If you do not do
things correctly, there are many safety issues here. An oil fire is one
of the most difficult types to put out.

Kerosene, is a fuel, and Canola oil can also be highly flammable. You
DO NOT want to use these! You need an oil with a very high breakdown
temperature and high ignition point, so electrical sparks or arcing will
not easily ignite it.

One of the best oils that were made for this, and is no longer available
were the PCB's. These ended up to be a terrible environmental hazard,
thus were outlawed. But, it was the best oil that they ever had for
transformers. In many of the older devices, up to about the early 70's
many electrical components had some form of PCB's with them from the
manufacture process.

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
==============================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
Instruments http://www.zoom-one.com/glgtech.htm
==============================================
"Arpit" <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:kl23lvc0bs4mojubnl0sn37kdk2jqgi7bi@4ax.com...
hi, im gonna make a high voltage generator, with 2 auto ignition coils
producing 120kv with an input of about 5000 watts. A documented
problem with theis setup is that the oil inside the coils starts
boiling quite quickly. SO I was thibnking,


a. How do they produce hi voltage generators for sustainable use?

b. WOuld immersing the coils in mineral oil help?

c. WHere can I get mineral oil (without drilling a hole in the local
pole transformer) and how much would it cost

d. COuld I use kerosene or canola oil?

Thanks

 

[Jerry G.]

Just to add on a few things... What you want to undertake is not very
safe. Using ignition coils from automobiles will most likely not get
you anywhere to the voltages you are looking for. They will have a
breakdown at about 30% over their voltage rating. Ignition coils must
be pulse driven, which is also dangerous for handling. If you feed one a
sign wave, it will not last very long.

Oil used in the power distribution transformers is a very pure form, and
must be in an isolated environment where there is no contamination. The
transformer device must be very well sealed, and not allow for external
oxygen from the outside atmosphere.

The proper transformers for this type of voltage output are very
expensive, heavy, and dangerous to handle. I would doubt very much that
the suppliers would even sell you a power distribution transformer,
unless you were working with an authorized engineering consultant, and
licensed technical staff, that are approved by the state or country you
are in.

As I said in a previous posting, kerosene is a fuel, and canola oil are
also very dangerous for fire. An oil fire is difficult to put out if
you cause one. Mineral oil can be purchased at a pharmacy (drugstore or
chemist ship).

I have seen the results of oil filled transformers that have burned up.
This is a disaster when it happens! I would not start this type of
experimentation at home. It should be done in a proper safe environment
under experienced supervision.

If you do this at home, first find out if your insurance company will
cover you, and that you have good family medical coverage (maybe worse
coverage will be necessary). Also enquire about the legal aspect in your
area. If something happens and you survive, you can be held responsible.


--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
==============================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
Instruments http://www.zoom-one.com/glgtech.htm
==============================================
"Arpit" <DONTSPAMMEF00Lneko4@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:kl23lvc0bs4mojubnl0sn37kdk2jqgi7bi@4ax.com...
hi, im gonna make a high voltage generator, with 2 auto ignition coils
producing 120kv with an input of about 5000 watts. A documented
problem with theis setup is that the oil inside the coils starts
boiling quite quickly. SO I was thibnking,


a. How do they produce hi voltage generators for sustainable use?

b. WOuld immersing the coils in mineral oil help?

c. WHere can I get mineral oil (without drilling a hole in the local
pole transformer) and how much would it cost

d. COuld I use kerosene or canola oil?

Thanks