Microplastics are raining down from the sky

Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

 

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:16:08 AM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 6:43:54 AM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

Recycling is mostly a feel good myth. We should design plastics so
they burn relatively cleanly. Then burn 'em for power.

George H.

Should we make use of the plastics first or are you suggesting a fuel to plastic to fuel pathway like Ethanol?

--

Rick C.

- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[George Herold]

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 6:43:54 AM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

Recycling is mostly a feel good myth. We should design plastics so
they burn relatively cleanly. Then burn 'em for power.

George H.

 

[George Herold]

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:26:09 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:16:08 AM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 6:43:54 AM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

Recycling is mostly a feel good myth. We should design plastics so
they burn relatively cleanly. Then burn 'em for power.

George H.

Should we make use of the plastics first or are you suggesting a fuel to plastic to fuel pathway like Ethanol?

--

Rick C.

- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Use the petroleum as plastic bottles (or whatever) then burn for power.
We'd need some way to burn cleanly.

George H.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 03:43:50 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

At micron radii, the volume is insignificant. Critters will happily
eat them. The bacteria outnumber the plastic particles by billions to
1.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 12:16:08 AM UTC+10, George Herold wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 6:43:54 AM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

Recycling is mostly a feel good myth. We should design plastics so
they burn relatively cleanly. Then burn 'em for power.

Quite a bit does get recycled.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/03/only-a-third-of-australias-plastic-packaging-waste-gets-recycled

In Australia about one third gets recycled, and the system could be tweaked to do better - and probably will be, if not all that fast.

It takes quite a lot of work to turn petrochemicals into plastics, and burning the lot after one go around probably isn't optimal.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 12:16:08 AM UTC+10, George Herold wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 6:43:54 AM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

Recycling is mostly a feel good myth. We should design plastics so
they burn relatively cleanly. Then burn 'em for power.

Quite a bit does get recycled.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/03/only-a-third-of-australias-plastic-packaging-waste-gets-recycled

In Australia about one third gets recycled, and the system could be tweaked to do better - and probably will be, if not all that fast.

It takes quite a lot of work to turn petrochemicals into plastics, and burning the lot after one go around probably isn't optimal.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:26:09 AM UTC-4, gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:16:08 AM UTC-4, George Herold wrote:
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 6:43:54 AM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

Recycling is mostly a feel good myth. We should design plastics so
they burn relatively cleanly. Then burn 'em for power.

George H.

Should we make use of the plastics first or are you suggesting a fuel to plastic to fuel pathway like Ethanol?

--

Rick C.

- Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Use the petroleum as plastic bottles (or whatever) then burn for power.
We'd need some way to burn cleanly.

George H.

We can fill the bottles with petroleum before burning. That should do the trick!

I missed something. What's wrong with making new plastic bottles from the old ones??? What is with the obsession with burning stuff? Are you a pyromaniac?

--

Rick C.

+ Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Martin Brown]

On 16/04/2019 15:58, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, George Herold
wrote:
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:26:09 AM UTC-4,
gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:16:08 AM UTC-4, George Herold
wrote:
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 6:43:54 AM UTC-4,
bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles
falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/



Recycling is mostly a feel good myth. We should design plastics so
they burn relatively cleanly. Then burn 'em for power.

Recycling some of the higher value thermoplastic ones makes economic
sense but ISTR in the current market only clear PET and natural HDPE is
really worthwhile. Kerbside collections of other recyclables isn't cost
effective unless you include the landfill taxes in the equation.

https://www.letsrecycle.com/prices/plastics/plastic-bottles/plastic-bottles-2018/

Mixed waste plastics is almost worthless.

Should we make use of the plastics first or are you suggesting a
fuel to plastic to fuel pathway like Ethanol?


Use the petroleum as plastic bottles (or whatever) then burn for
power. We'd need some way to burn cleanly.

Apart from the halogenated polymers PVC and PTFE most of the rest do
burn cleanly provided you give them enough oxygen to go with the fuel.
Rubbish grade plastic fuel and old tyres often ends up in lime kilns.

We can fill the bottles with petroleum before burning. That should
do the trick!

I missed something. What's wrong with making new plastic bottles
from the old ones??? What is with the obsession with burning stuff?

You lose a little bit of quality each time around the cycle so you can
only cut a certain percentage of old plastic into new product and still
have it behave properly. No point making bottles that will fail in use.

> Are you a pyromaniac?

Some plastics - notably the ones with black pigments in are impossible
for the automated sorters to separate into reusable waste streams and as
such are presently not accepted in many places. Putting them into
landfill as happens now is even worse than burning them. Unfortunately
supermarkets and their customers seem to like black plastic packaging.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:09:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 11:10:11 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 03:43:50 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:



Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

At micron radii, the volume is insignificant. Critters will happily
eat them. The bacteria outnumber the plastic particles by billions to
1.

Maybe you missed the part about these particles being nano scale with a completely different surface chemistry that results in all kinds of hazardous atmospheric pollutants binding to them.

That makes them even tastier. Like that big oil spill in the Gulf:
bacteria love this stuff.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 11:10:11 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 03:43:50 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:



Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

At micron radii, the volume is insignificant. Critters will happily
eat them. The bacteria outnumber the plastic particles by billions to
1.

Maybe you missed the part about these particles being nano scale with a completely different surface chemistry that results in all kinds of hazardous atmospheric pollutants binding to them.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[George Herold]

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 11:29:59 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

On 16/04/2019 15:58, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, George Herold
wrote:
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:26:09 AM UTC-4,
gnuarm.de...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:16:08 AM UTC-4, George Herold
wrote:
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 6:43:54 AM UTC-4,
bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles
falling out of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/



Recycling is mostly a feel good myth. We should design plastics so
they burn relatively cleanly. Then burn 'em for power.

Recycling some of the higher value thermoplastic ones makes economic
sense but ISTR in the current market only clear PET and natural HDPE is
really worthwhile. Kerbside collections of other recyclables isn't cost
effective unless you include the landfill taxes in the equation.

https://www.letsrecycle.com/prices/plastics/plastic-bottles/plastic-bottles-2018/

Mixed waste plastics is almost worthless.

Should we make use of the plastics first or are you suggesting a
fuel to plastic to fuel pathway like Ethanol?


Use the petroleum as plastic bottles (or whatever) then burn for
power. We'd need some way to burn cleanly.

Apart from the halogenated polymers PVC and PTFE most of the rest do
burn cleanly provided you give them enough oxygen to go with the fuel.
Rubbish grade plastic fuel and old tyres often ends up in lime kilns.

We can fill the bottles with petroleum before burning. That should
do the trick!

I missed something. What's wrong with making new plastic bottles
from the old ones??? What is with the obsession with burning stuff?

You lose a little bit of quality each time around the cycle so you can
only cut a certain percentage of old plastic into new product and still
have it behave properly. No point making bottles that will fail in use.

Are you a pyromaniac?

Some plastics - notably the ones with black pigments in are impossible
for the automated sorters to separate into reusable waste streams and as
such are presently not accepted in many places. Putting them into
landfill as happens now is even worse than burning them. Unfortunately
supermarkets and their customers seem to like black plastic packaging.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Thanks Martin, I was reading in the local paper that glass recycling
doesn't work so well in the US. I'm not sure why.
This says it's too expensive to separate (single stream recycling.)
https://cen.acs.org/materials/inorganic-chemistry/glass-recycling-US-broken/97/i6

George H.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:11:33 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

That makes them even tastier. Like that big oil spill in the Gulf:
bacteria love this stuff.

If I were Fred I'd turn off the TV, throw out the radio and never read
another newspaper again ever. Can't go wrong! I'm not joking, either.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 03:43:50 -0700, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred wrote:

Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out
of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-
pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

What's the problem? They're inert!
My sister over in Canada had a bottle of washing up liquid turn up on
your local stretch of shoreline recently. It had been floating around the
world's oceans perfectly harmlessly for *at least* 48 years. We were able
to date it from the price printed on it, which was in pre-decimal form -
2/6d IIRC.
You're worrying over nothing as usual.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 16/04/2019 17:00, George Herold wrote:

Thanks Martin, I was reading in the local paper that glass recycling
doesn't work so well in the US. I'm not sure why.
This says it's too expensive to separate (single stream recycling.)
https://cen.acs.org/materials/inorganic-chemistry/glass-recycling-US-broken/97/i6

That is weird. UK has had kerbside multi-stream recycling for ages. And
for even longer if you were prepared to take things along to the tip.
Continental schemes are even more sophisticated (at least in Belgium).

Glass is typically sorted for clear, green, brown feeds at such sites.
Kerbside collection keeps glass separate from everything else to protect
their workforce from any broken glass.

Paper, plastic and metal cans all go in one big bin and get sorted out
by a clever waste stream splitter. They are quite fussy about what they
will accept. Black plastic is the most obvious no-no.

The wagon that collects recyclables is an odd hybrid that takes the
wheelie bins in at the back and has a hopper on one side that takes in
glass from the blue box. Every now and then a Rube-Goldberg contraption
tips the full hopper into the bowels of the waste truck with much noise.

Green waste is now extra charge to dispose of (annual license ÂŁ50).
- which has led to an increase in fly tipping

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 10:12:35 AM UTC-7, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 03:43:50 -0700, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred wrote:

Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out
of the air in a remote mountain location.

What's the problem? They're inert!
My sister over in Canada had a bottle of washing up liquid turn up on
your local stretch of shoreline recently. It had been floating around the
world's oceans perfectly harmlessly for *at least* 48 years. We were able
to date it from the price printed on it, which was in pre-decimal form -
2/6d IIRC.

The problem is, it floats in water, it floats in air.
I'm finding little bits of polytarp in the yard from birds' and squirrels' nests.

Inert it may be, but it goes everywhere, it clogs... everything.
Sewers in New Orleans filled with beads, turtles
with gut loads of plastic bags, a sea bird coughing up a plastic toothbrush
to feed the chicks...

In Indonesia, it clogs rivers.
<https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/01/22/plastic-waste-fills-indonesian-river-and-never-stops-coming/23650181/>

Some hope: biofilms have been found on pitted remnants, where some kind of bacterial
degradation of the plastic is happening. Maybe the bacteria will unravel the long polymer
chains eventually.

 

On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 3:14:36 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:11:33 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

That makes them even tastier. Like that big oil spill in the Gulf:
bacteria love this stuff.

If I were Fred I'd turn off the TV, throw out the radio and never read
another newspaper again ever. Can't go wrong! I'm not joking, either.

Since Cursitor Doom kill-files anybody who tells him stuff he doesn't want to know, he's obviously not joking.

Fred Bloggs wouldn't need to turn off the TV, throw out the radio or avoid all newspapers to get to be as complacently ill-informed as Cursitor Doom - he'd just have to be just as selective about which news sources he paid attention to.

The Daily Mail and Russian Today are much too busy misleadig their audiences about politics to spend any time informing them about environmental problems - which is fair enough. If your basic plan involves starting WW3, any lesser environmental degradation doesn't really matter.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 3:12:35 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 03:43:50 -0700, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred wrote:

Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out
of the air in a remote mountain location.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/04/microplastics-
pollution-falls-from-air-even-mountains/

What's the problem? They're inert!

They get progressively less inert as they get broken up. By the time the get down to micron-sized and below, the surface area is large, and surfaces are a lot more chemically active than the bulk.

My sister over in Canada had a bottle of washing up liquid turn up on
your local stretch of shoreline recently. It had been floating around the
world's oceans perfectly harmlessly for *at least* 48 years. We were able
to date it from the price printed on it, which was in pre-decimal form -
2/6d IIRC.

Modern plastics are designed to biodegrade.

> You're worrying over nothing as usual.

Cursitor Doom's ignorance makes him complacent about a lot of real problems. Culling the dangerously ignorant might be a practical idea - the target population would never see it coming.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 9:11:41 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:09:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 11:10:11 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 03:43:50 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air...

At micron radii, the volume is insignificant. Critters will happily
eat them. The bacteria outnumber the plastic particles by billions to
1.

Maybe you missed the part about these particles being nano scale with a completely different surface chemistry that results in all kinds of hazardous atmospheric pollutants binding to them.

That makes them even tastier. Like that big oil spill in the Gulf:
bacteria love this stuff.

Taste is largely irrelevant. Filter feeders (from baleen whales down to corals) can clog
and die at a variety of scale sizes. They aren't picky about flavors.

Bacteria in the Gulf of Mexico have had megayears of oil-seepage to adapt to. Baleen whales
aren't so fast to evolve as regards modern polymers.

 

[John Larkin]

On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 21:42:30 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 9:11:41 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 09:09:57 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 11:10:11 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 03:43:50 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

Scientists discover large amounts of tiny plastic particles falling out of the air...

At micron radii, the volume is insignificant. Critters will happily
eat them. The bacteria outnumber the plastic particles by billions to
1.

Maybe you missed the part about these particles being nano scale with a completely different surface chemistry that results in all kinds of hazardous atmospheric pollutants binding to them.

That makes them even tastier. Like that big oil spill in the Gulf:
bacteria love this stuff.

Taste is largely irrelevant. Filter feeders (from baleen whales down to corals) can clog
and die at a variety of scale sizes. They aren't picky about flavors.

Bacteria in the Gulf of Mexico have had megayears of oil-seepage to adapt to. Baleen whales
aren't so fast to evolve as regards modern polymers.

They have adapted to millions of years of particulates: sand, dust,
soot, bits of various living and dead critters. Those things probably
outnumber plastic particles by a billion to one.

If we have nutritious amounts of micro-plastics in the sea (which we
don't yet) bacteria will quickly adapt to eating them.

Doomsday predictions are always plentiful and popular.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics