Microcontroller kits - anyone made them actually work ?

D

Dean

Guest
Anyone bought a microcontroller kit ( say a Hot Chip Maxi Pack from DSE or
one from Dontronics ) because it says you'll have it up and running in a few
minutes ? But 3 weeks later, after spending days puzzling over manuals, data
books, crashing coursing yourself in Basic and C and asking every industrial
computer person you know whats going on, you cant even begin to communicate
with it. I would love to know if anyone ever got one of these "up and
running in no time " as claimed on the box ?

Dean
( too stupid to own a computer )
 
G'day,
I can sympathise totally. Many years ago I bought a National
Semiconductor "Scamp" evaluation kit. I went through all the same
things you're going through and I never did work out how to make it do
anything. I eventually gave it to a school kid to play with.
Some time after that I got a South Australia Institute Of
Technology "Datum" board which was reviewed in EA magazine. Thankfully
it was aimed at dummies like me and I was able to understand the
fundamentals of programming it.
Don't give up... it's not nearly as complicated as it looks. The
problem is the lack of understandable info about the basics of micros
and programming.
Motorola's got a decent 200+ page book about microcontroller
fundamentals. You can download it for free from
http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/M68HC05TB.pdf but be
warned that it's almost 3MB in size. I hope this helps you to get to
the point where it all "clicks".

Bob



"Dean" <deanb@westnet.com.au> wrote:

Anyone bought a microcontroller kit ( say a Hot Chip Maxi Pack from DSE or
one from Dontronics ) because it says you'll have it up and running in a few
minutes ? But 3 weeks later, after spending days puzzling over manuals, data
books, crashing coursing yourself in Basic and C and asking every industrial
computer person you know whats going on, you cant even begin to communicate
with it. I would love to know if anyone ever got one of these "up and
running in no time " as claimed on the box ?

Dean
( too stupid to own a computer )
Click to expand...

Hate spam? Go to http://www.bluebottle.com (It's free)
 
"Dean" <deanb@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f38fe60@quokka.wn.com.au...
Anyone bought a microcontroller kit ( say a Hot Chip Maxi Pack from DSE or
one from Dontronics ) because it says you'll have it up and running in a
few
minutes ? But 3 weeks later, after spending days puzzling over manuals,
data
books, crashing coursing yourself in Basic and C and asking every
industrial
computer person you know whats going on, you cant even begin to
communicate
with it. I would love to know if anyone ever got one of these "up and
running in no time " as claimed on the box ?
Click to expand...
I got the basic AVR microcontroller from www.dontronic.coms working without
much problem
See http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

A few basic things to remember:
The multimeter is your friend! Use your multimeter to check resistance and
voltages. For example you can check the output from a voltage regulator to
see if it is correct.
Also use you multimeter to basic continuity checks. If two components should
be connected check that the resistance between the two is close to zero.

gtoomey
 
"Dean" <deanb@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f38fe60@quokka.wn.com.au...
Anyone bought a microcontroller kit ( say a Hot Chip Maxi Pack from DSE or
one from Dontronics ) because it says you'll have it up and running in a
few
minutes ? But 3 weeks later, after spending days puzzling over manuals,
data
books, crashing coursing yourself in Basic and C and asking every
industrial
computer person you know whats going on, you cant even begin to
communicate
with it. I would love to know if anyone ever got one of these "up and
running in no time " as claimed on the box ?

Dean
( too stupid to own a computer )
Click to expand...
Which kit/compiler combination are you using?
 
"Dean" <deanb@westnet.com.au> wrote in message news:3f38fe60@quokka.wn.com.au...
Anyone bought a microcontroller kit ( say a Hot Chip Maxi Pack from DSE or
one from Dontronics ) because it says you'll have it up and running in a few
minutes ? But 3 weeks later, after spending days puzzling over manuals, data
books, crashing coursing yourself in Basic and C and asking every industrial
computer person you know whats going on, you cant even begin to communicate
with it. I would love to know if anyone ever got one of these "up and
running in no time " as claimed on the box ?

Dean
( too stupid to own a computer )
Click to expand...
Built a few of the dontronics ones with no problems both pic and avrs.

Gave jaycar and the dick smiths ones a miss.

Just started tutoring a uni subject on complex programmable logic
and pic microprocessors.

Main thing is to read every bit of docs carefully.

Start with the most simple program possible, flashing a led or two
and build up from there.

Do things one tiny step at a time.

Alex
 
"James"
Which kit/compiler combination are you using?
Click to expand...
Originally I tried a Hot Chip Maxi Pack from DSE. The software supplied
seemed more like a puzzle than anything to help. I gave that one away to a
guy who reckoned he could get it going - never did. The most recent was the
DT006 from Dontronics. I'm using Bascom's demo compiler and trying to get
simple programs like rotate.bas and strings.bas to work. This is much better
and the Don will actually help with advice and his website has many links to
helpful sites, but I still think these are more for those with pevious
recent experience in programming micros and also with a fairly good
knowledge of communication protocols between PCs and micros as I think part
of my trouble is in that area.

I work with medical/scientific intrumentation and most of the manuals
supplied take you right through everything step by step for dummies like
me...but then when you pay as much for a blood gas analyser as you do for a
nice car you should expect a good book with it ! I suppose you get what you
pay for quite often.


Dean
 
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:09:18 +0800, "Dean" <dbd@cyllene.uwa.edu.au>
wrote:

"James"
Which kit/compiler combination are you using?

Originally I tried a Hot Chip Maxi Pack from DSE. The software supplied
seemed more like a puzzle than anything to help. I gave that one away to a
guy who reckoned he could get it going - never did. The most recent was the
DT006 from Dontronics. I'm using Bascom's demo compiler and trying to get
simple programs like rotate.bas and strings.bas to work. This is much better
and the Don will actually help with advice and his website has many links to
helpful sites, but I still think these are more for those with pevious
recent experience in programming micros and also with a fairly good
knowledge of communication protocols between PCs and micros as I think part
of my trouble is in that area.

I work with medical/scientific intrumentation and most of the manuals
supplied take you right through everything step by step for dummies like
me...but then when you pay as much for a blood gas analyser as you do for a
nice car you should expect a good book with it ! I suppose you get what you
pay for quite often.


Dean


Hello Dean,
Click to expand...
you are not alone in your struggles. I bought a Starter Kit
MCU00100 AT89/90 from REC electronics in Rydalmere
Sydney. Someone on this group recommended it to me
as a good way to start learning about microcontrollers.

From the disk that comes with the kit, I installed the programs
on to my computer and plugged the little board into one of my
computers ports. It did as much with power off as it did with
power on. Nothing.
After a few phone calls to REC, I took my computer and kit
to REC and set the the thing up in the back of my van in
their car park using a 240V extention power lead.

One of their experts, a lady engineer came out and tried
to make it work. I was blinded by science and high tech
gobbledegook but it still did nothing.
I felt sorry for the lady engineer because she could not
make this kit do anything either. She got rid of me gently
by giving me some Atmel CD roms and a pile of free Atmel
books to read. I wasted a few days and a hundred
dollars. When I get some time I will try again.

Hello Bob Parker,
you mentioned the "datum" kit.
I went to the Tafe up here in Hornsby several years ago
and they had those little learning aids. Apart from the tafe
class exercises, nobody made it do anything useful in the
outside world. How did you go?
Did you make it do something useful?
If so I will persevere with that one.

Regards to all,
John Crighton
Hornsby
 
Thanks for the advice and the handy link. Just downloaded it and it looks
like what I've been looking for. Its nice to see something written 'from the
ground up ' . Too many books on programming, for instance, claim to be for
absolute beginners and yet are practically written in C !

Dean.

"Bob Parker"
Don't give up... it's not nearly as complicated as it looks. The
problem is the lack of understandable info about the basics of micros
and programming.
Motorola's got a decent 200+ page book about microcontroller
fundamentals. You can download it for free from
http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/M68HC05TB.pdf but be
warned that it's almost 3MB in size. I hope this helps you to get to
the point where it all "clicks".

Bob
Click to expand...
 
G'day John,
After getting through the initial *steep* learning curve, one of
the first things I did was to connect it to a reed switch next to the
treadmill with two magnets on it, of a mouse house to see how far a
mouse ran in one day. Further than you would think! I'm not sure if
you'd call that "useful". :)
Eventually I connected it to a whole lot of wire-wrapped chips and
made it into a 2716 EPROM programmer.
I've written little games and other routines for it, like a
precision mains frequency/phase indicator etc etc. Then I went on to
develop some other 6802-based gadgets. I thought it was the best thing
I ever bought. The 6800 instruction set and architecture would have to
about the easiest for anyone to learn micro principles on.

Cheers,
Bob


john_c@tpg.com.au (John Crighton) wrote:
Hello Bob Parker,
you mentioned the "datum" kit.
I went to the Tafe up here in Hornsby several years ago
and they had those little learning aids. Apart from the tafe
class exercises, nobody made it do anything useful in the
outside world. How did you go?
Did you make it do something useful?
If so I will persevere with that one.

Regards to all,
John Crighton
Hornsby
Click to expand...

Hate spam? Go to http://www.bluebottle.com (It's free)
 
john_c@tpg.com.au (John Crighton) wrote in message news:<3f3b0e6a.640828@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:09:18 +0800, "Dean" <dbd@cyllene.uwa.edu.au
wrote:

From the disk that comes with the kit, I installed the programs
on to my computer and plugged the little board into one of my
computers ports. It did as much with power off as it did with
power on. Nothing.
After a few phone calls to REC, I took my computer and kit
to REC and set the the thing up in the back of my van in
their car park using a 240V extention power lead.

One of their experts, a lady engineer came out and tried
to make it work. I was blinded by science and high tech
gobbledegook but it still did nothing.
I felt sorry for the lady engineer because she could not
make this kit do anything either. She got rid of me gently
by giving me some Atmel CD roms and a pile of free Atmel
books to read. I wasted a few days and a hundred
dollars. When I get some time I will try again.
Click to expand...
Reminds me of my struggles to understand why my Scamp echoed
characters immediately at 110 baud and my 2650 at 300 baud had a delay
between pressing a key and seeing it echoed on the CRT.

I spoke to someone at Signetics (2650 people) who said to bring it in,
they looked at it for about a fortnight before saying there was
nothing wrong with it, which I had kind of suspected as it did
everything else fine.

Much later, when I understood the assembler code for both systems and
had access to the source the penny dropped. The Scamp echoed each bit
as it was received, the 2650 echoed each character as it was received.
i.e. there was a 1/110th second delay for the Scamp and roughly 1/15th
second delay for the 2650.

Of course these days with the high baud rates we see now, such a
coding difference would go unnoticed.

Cheers,

Mark
 
Can't let this discourse go by without a mention of the PICAXE family
- handled in Oz by MicroZed => www.picaxe.com.au . These high level
darlings were only released in Oz early 2003, but have become a 2003
microcontroller sensation, with numerous applications rolled in just a
few hours by newbies & schools etc. Refer the ongoing Silicon Chip
monthly articles for insights. Oh - they're DIRT CHEAP ( start at
A$3.95 ),& program in situ via 3 wire serial lead & free editor. Their
~$10 PICAXE-18A ( a PIC16F819 ) handles such delights as Dallas Semi
1 wire temps, Infra Red, interupts, PC keyboards & hi res. ADC ...
UK wizards behind them are Revolution Education => www.picaxe.com
RECOMMENDED !!
 
"Dean" <dbd@cyllene.uwa.edu.au> wrote in message news:bhenhe$hhv$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au...
"James"
Which kit/compiler combination are you using?

Originally I tried a Hot Chip Maxi Pack from DSE. The software supplied
seemed more like a puzzle than anything to help. I gave that one away to a
guy who reckoned he could get it going - never did. The most recent was the
DT006 from Dontronics. I'm using Bascom's demo compiler and trying to get
simple programs like rotate.bas and strings.bas to work. This is much better
and the Don will actually help with advice and his website has many links to
helpful sites, but I still think these are more for those with pevious
recent experience in programming micros and also with a fairly good
knowledge of communication protocols between PCs and micros as I think part
of my trouble is in that area.
Click to expand...
The problem for a lot of people is setting up windows - hyperterminal
to talk with the micro. Also is quite easy to stuff one little thing up
that screws it all up.

Also with windows 2000 and windows xp not allowing
direct access to the parallel port.

I've found it easier to use a seperate programmer to program the micro,
then build the circuit on a bread board.

Atmel chips are a bit easier than pics for this as can get away with using 5 resistors
as a isp programmer.


I work with medical/scientific intrumentation and most of the manuals
supplied take you right through everything step by step for dummies like
me...but then when you pay as much for a blood gas analyser as you do for a
nice car you should expect a good book with it ! I suppose you get what you
pay for quite often.


Dean
Click to expand...
I'm still wondering how Frank Zabar, is
going with the pic and cpld board I swapped him for a few bits
(one of the old boards for a subject I'm now tutoring at uni - introductory digital systems).

The UTS Engineering faculty is thinking of selling their current kits to other universities and Tafe's.
A real nice board with plenty of features.

For beginners a couple of good tutorials are:
http://www.al-williams.com/app1.htm
http://www.winpicprog.co.uk/pic_tutorial.htm

Alex
 
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 00:47:00 +1000, Dean wrote:

I've built stuff using AVR's (buying chips from Dontronics) - the damn
things are wonderful, and if you go to the AVR Freaks web site
(http://www.avrfreaks/net) you can download the AVR GCC compiler and write
for them in C. Coupled with the standard AVR workbench tools you can have
a ball.

Another good alternative is the Dick Smith 'HotChips' kit - but don't buy
the development kit. If you buy just the bare board, and build the Jaycar
AVR programmer you get a nice little piece of hardware and the necessary
software to develop and code fun stuff.

A useful tip with the HotChip target boards - buy a couple of good
wirewrap sockets and break the pins out of the plastic carrier.

You can then insert the pins into the holes around the outside of the
hotchip package. Once you have done that, solder them in (but make sure
that they are completely square and aligned. Doing this allows you to
press the hotchips package into a breadboard for prototyping without
soldering any more. The beauty of this is if you need to attach a Cro or
logic probe or multimeter you can rest the tip of the probe in the top of
the pin - the recessed head of the pin (where the IC would have gone)
allows you to seat the probe without it skipping off somewhere else.

When I'm bored I'll try one of the AtMEGA32's that Don is selling - those
look like heaps of fun (more SRAM/FLASH/MIPS than the HotChips stuff).

Sean

Anyone bought a microcontroller kit ( say a Hot Chip Maxi Pack from DSE
or one from Dontronics ) because it says you'll have it up and running
in a few minutes ? But 3 weeks later, after spending days puzzling over
manuals, data books, crashing coursing yourself in Basic and C and
asking every industrial computer person you know whats going on, you
cant even begin to communicate with it. I would love to know if anyone
ever got one of these "up and running in no time " as claimed on the box
?

Dean
( too stupid to own a computer )
Click to expand...
 
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