Maximum Power Point Tracking: Optimizing Solar Panels 58 Comments by: Maya Posch...

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[Anthony William Sloman]

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 10:39:56 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Jan 2023 02:15:06 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
ca3b7739-cb44-4c8f...@googlegroups.com>:
On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 9:59:53 PM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 2 Jan 2023 15:24:10 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd
whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
24344a75-68f7-4b3a...@googlegroups.com>:
On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 10:41:42 PM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Climate change is caused by earth orbit variations and changes in the sun.

False. See previous responses.

We producing CO2 has little to do with it.

It fits the data, though,

It does not, if you had looked up CO2 versus ice ages an warm periods
you would see CO2 lagging at times.

Little pisDed now you are proven wrong?

The error is all yours.The demented claim that because ice age/interglacial CO2 lags temperatures rising CO2 levels can\'t cause temperature change is a staple of climate change denial propaganda. Itt\'s such an obviously nonsensical argument that even a half-wit like you wouldn\'t have come up with it without prompting.

I\'m saying it fits the current climate data, not that it fits unrelated climate change we call ice ages.

Why would you assume the talk had changed to the cause of ice ages? That makes no sense. Take your meds.

Don\'t be silly. The ice age/interglacial climate changes are our most recent example of climate change, and we have learned as much as we can from them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Thermal_Maximum

is another example and that does seem to have been caused by a massive release of a greenhouse gas which messed up the carbon isotope ratios.

> YOU WILL NEVER LEARN

As if Jan Panteltje had anything to teach - or at least anything to teach that was worth learning. He does seem to have swallowed the climate change denial twaddle, hook line and sinker, and now wants to spread the misleading message, rather like a Jehovah\'s Witness.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[whit3rd]

On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 10:41:42 PM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:

> Climate change is caused by earth orbit variations and changes in the sun.

The \'earth orbit variations\' has different time progression than we see, and
as for \'changes in the sun\'-- that\'s the billion-year timescale. In a mere million
years, one doesn\'t expect a single degree F, let alone C, of difference.
So, your concerns with orbit and sun are misplaced.

> We producing CO2 has little to do with it.

It fits the data, though, and nothing you\'ve said is close to a criticism, let alone a
contrary observation.

> The selling thing comes from Al Gore and ...

and connects well with observed reality. The \'from Al Gore\' item of interest
was the internet, historically.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Jan 2023 01:18:56 -0800 (PST)) it happened Anthony
William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
<d1307b99-f37d-4845-be42-5adab8a8b6e5n@googlegroups.com>:

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 4:59:53 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 2 Jan 2023 15:24:10 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd

whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
24344a75-68f7-4b3a...@googlegroups.com>:
On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 10:41:42 PM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Climate change is caused by earth orbit variations and changes in the sun.


The \'earth orbit variations\' has different time progression than we see,

You are confusing \'weather\' with climate.

He isn\'t.

Just a few hundred years ago we had the \'little ice age\' in Europe
Try reading this:
http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm

If \'save the world\' idiots have not killed that site yet...

It is irrelevant in this context - it eventually gets through to the \"Milankovich
Cycles\" which don\'t explain the warming we have seen over the last cenutry
or so.

and as for \'changes in the sun\'-- that\'s the billion-year timescale.

Oh, our measurements with advanced electronics during the ice age confirm
that right ;-) HAHAHAHA

Ignorant idiot. He talking about the predictable evlution of the sun (as a main
sequence star - at least so far).

https://theplanets.org/types-of-stars/main-sequence-star-life-cycle-and-other-facts/


In a mere million years, one doesn\'t expect a single degree F, let alone
C, of difference.
So, your concerns with orbit and sun are misplaced.


We producing CO2 has little to do with it.

It fits the data, though,

It does not, if you had looked up CO2 versus ice ages an warm periods you
would see CO2 lagging at times.

The ice age/interglacial alternation is essentially driven by snow cover - CO2
levels follow that and provide positive feedback. Our feeding extra CO2
into the atmosphere is driving the system, and the change in snow cover - as
in melting the Arctic ice cover - is providig positive feedback, even if
you are too dim to realise it.

Google is you answer, it was all discussed here before.

Google pick up climate change denial propaganda as well as scientific information.
You happen to prefer the propaganda.

But brainwashed masses and kids will rather try to save the world by cladding
paintings and killing all useful power generation systems,
UNTIL they get cold feet and then are the first ones to cry for nuclear, coal,
and oil.

Solar power and wind turbines do happen to be useful power generation systems,
but they don\'t put money in the pockets of the fossil carbon extraction
industry.

The \'from Al Gore\' item of interest was the internet, historically.

And the internet is used by the climate idiots to manipulate you, It (climate
fear and the internet) is used to sell ever newer and many times inferior
stuff.

It is equally used by the climate change denial propaganda machine to manipulate
gullible idiots like you and John Larkin - it is a two-edged sword.

Electricity generated from solar panels is cheaper than power from any other
source. That doesn\'t make it inferior. The fossil carbon extraction industry
doesn\'t like it - they are being undercut and losing the profits they used
to make, out of you, amongst others.

Your clue is missing
I\'d rather pay the utility rates to get nice 24/7 power
then having all of my garden and roof covered by panels that will only work
part of the time with part of the power.
I HAVE those, you climate lier has none I take it from your drivel?
I have battery backup too...

As climate will change -CO2 emitted by you farting or not - we need ALL THE POWER WE
CAN GET from ALL sources to cope.
Mass migration will be (and already is) happening.
Look at history: people\'s migration, flooding seas changing vegetation...


And look at what some hurricanes and hale can do and have done to those panels.
Not even mentioning snow an dust covering those.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Jan 2023 01:18:56 -0800 (PST)) it happened Anthony
William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
<d1307b99-f37d-4845-be42-5adab8a8b6e5n@googlegroups.com>:

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 4:59:53 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 2 Jan 2023 15:24:10 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd

whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
24344a75-68f7-4b3a...@googlegroups.com>:
On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 10:41:42 PM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Climate change is caused by earth orbit variations and changes in the sun.


The \'earth orbit variations\' has different time progression than we see,

You are confusing \'weather\' with climate.

He isn\'t.

Just a few hundred years ago we had the \'little ice age\' in Europe
Try reading this:
http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm

If \'save the world\' idiots have not killed that site yet...

It is irrelevant in this context - it eventually gets through to the \"Milankovich
Cycles\" which don\'t explain the warming we have seen over the last cenutry
or so.

and as for \'changes in the sun\'-- that\'s the billion-year timescale.

Oh, our measurements with advanced electronics during the ice age confirm
that right ;-) HAHAHAHA

Ignorant idiot. He talking about the predictable evlution of the sun (as a main
sequence star - at least so far).

https://theplanets.org/types-of-stars/main-sequence-star-life-cycle-and-other-facts/


In a mere million years, one doesn\'t expect a single degree F, let alone
C, of difference.
So, your concerns with orbit and sun are misplaced.


We producing CO2 has little to do with it.

It fits the data, though,

It does not, if you had looked up CO2 versus ice ages an warm periods you
would see CO2 lagging at times.

The ice age/interglacial alternation is essentially driven by snow cover - CO2
levels follow that and provide positive feedback. Our feeding extra CO2
into the atmosphere is driving the system, and the change in snow cover - as
in melting the Arctic ice cover - is providig positive feedback, even if
you are too dim to realise it.

Google is you answer, it was all discussed here before.

Google pick up climate change denial propaganda as well as scientific information.
You happen to prefer the propaganda.

But brainwashed masses and kids will rather try to save the world by cladding
paintings and killing all useful power generation systems,
UNTIL they get cold feet and then are the first ones to cry for nuclear, coal,
and oil.

Solar power and wind turbines do happen to be useful power generation systems,
but they don\'t put money in the pockets of the fossil carbon extraction
industry.

The \'from Al Gore\' item of interest was the internet, historically.

And the internet is used by the climate idiots to manipulate you, It (climate
fear and the internet) is used to sell ever newer and many times inferior
stuff.

It is equally used by the climate change denial propaganda machine to manipulate
gullible idiots like you and John Larkin - it is a two-edged sword.

Electricity generated from solar panels is cheaper than power from any other
source. That doesn\'t make it inferior. The fossil carbon extraction industry
doesn\'t like it - they are being undercut and losing the profits they used
to make, out of you, amongst others.

Your clue is missing
I\'d rather pay the utility rates to get nice 24/7 power
then having all of my garden and roof covered by panels that will only work
part of the time with part of the power.
I HAVE those, you climate lier has none I take it from your drivel?
I have battery backup too...

As climate will change -CO2 emitted by you farting or not - we need ALL THE POWER WE
CAN GET from ALL sources to cope.
Mass migration will be (and already is) happening.
Look at history: people\'s migration, flooding seas changing vegetation...


And look at what some hurricanes and hale can do and have done to those panels.
Not even mentioning snow an dust covering those.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Tue, 3 Jan 2023 01:18:56 -0800 (PST)) it happened Anthony
William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in
<d1307b99-f37d-4845-be42-5adab8a8b6e5n@googlegroups.com>:

On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 4:59:53 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 2 Jan 2023 15:24:10 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd

whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
24344a75-68f7-4b3a...@googlegroups.com>:
On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 10:41:42 PM UTC-8, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Climate change is caused by earth orbit variations and changes in the sun.


The \'earth orbit variations\' has different time progression than we see,

You are confusing \'weather\' with climate.

He isn\'t.

Just a few hundred years ago we had the \'little ice age\' in Europe
Try reading this:
http://old.world-mysteries.com/alignments/mpl_al3b.htm

If \'save the world\' idiots have not killed that site yet...

It is irrelevant in this context - it eventually gets through to the \"Milankovich
Cycles\" which don\'t explain the warming we have seen over the last cenutry
or so.

and as for \'changes in the sun\'-- that\'s the billion-year timescale.

Oh, our measurements with advanced electronics during the ice age confirm
that right ;-) HAHAHAHA

Ignorant idiot. He talking about the predictable evlution of the sun (as a main
sequence star - at least so far).

https://theplanets.org/types-of-stars/main-sequence-star-life-cycle-and-other-facts/


In a mere million years, one doesn\'t expect a single degree F, let alone
C, of difference.
So, your concerns with orbit and sun are misplaced.


We producing CO2 has little to do with it.

It fits the data, though,

It does not, if you had looked up CO2 versus ice ages an warm periods you
would see CO2 lagging at times.

The ice age/interglacial alternation is essentially driven by snow cover - CO2
levels follow that and provide positive feedback. Our feeding extra CO2
into the atmosphere is driving the system, and the change in snow cover - as
in melting the Arctic ice cover - is providig positive feedback, even if
you are too dim to realise it.

Google is you answer, it was all discussed here before.

Google pick up climate change denial propaganda as well as scientific information.
You happen to prefer the propaganda.

But brainwashed masses and kids will rather try to save the world by cladding
paintings and killing all useful power generation systems,
UNTIL they get cold feet and then are the first ones to cry for nuclear, coal,
and oil.

Solar power and wind turbines do happen to be useful power generation systems,
but they don\'t put money in the pockets of the fossil carbon extraction
industry.

The \'from Al Gore\' item of interest was the internet, historically.

And the internet is used by the climate idiots to manipulate you, It (climate
fear and the internet) is used to sell ever newer and many times inferior
stuff.

It is equally used by the climate change denial propaganda machine to manipulate
gullible idiots like you and John Larkin - it is a two-edged sword.

Electricity generated from solar panels is cheaper than power from any other
source. That doesn\'t make it inferior. The fossil carbon extraction industry
doesn\'t like it - they are being undercut and losing the profits they used
to make, out of you, amongst others.

Your clue is missing
I\'d rather pay the utility rates to get nice 24/7 power
then having all of my garden and roof covered by panels that will only work
part of the time with part of the power.
I HAVE those, you climate lier has none I take it from your drivel?
I have battery backup too...

As climate will change -CO2 emitted by you farting or not - we need ALL THE POWER WE
CAN GET from ALL sources to cope.
Mass migration will be (and already is) happening.
Look at history: people\'s migration, flooding seas changing vegetation...


And look at what some hurricanes and hale can do and have done to those panels.
Not even mentioning snow an dust covering those.

 

[Dan Purgert]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 2023-01-03, Don Y wrote:

On 1/3/2023 9:42 AM, bitrex wrote:
And then people complain the US doesn\'t make electronics anymore. Challenging
programs with a high washout rate AND it doesn\'t pay too good? Wow hard to
believe everyone isn\'t jumping on that one, lol

Nowadays, even \"makers\" don\'t *make* electronics. They just buy
modules and write some code. Modern packages are just too tedious
for hobbyists; you want successes to encourage your efforts, not
failures.

The no-lead stuff and/or exposed bottom pad stuff is certainly difficult
to handle... but even 0402 is \"doable\" with naught more than a decent
magnifying glass (e.g. Optivisors)

[...]
\"Oh, you built a power supply! How impressive! Does it
*do* anything?\"

.... I kinda need to at some point, just to say I did it... and a radio,
and ...


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|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

 

[Dan Purgert]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 2023-01-03, Don Y wrote:

On 1/3/2023 9:42 AM, bitrex wrote:
And then people complain the US doesn\'t make electronics anymore. Challenging
programs with a high washout rate AND it doesn\'t pay too good? Wow hard to
believe everyone isn\'t jumping on that one, lol

Nowadays, even \"makers\" don\'t *make* electronics. They just buy
modules and write some code. Modern packages are just too tedious
for hobbyists; you want successes to encourage your efforts, not
failures.

The no-lead stuff and/or exposed bottom pad stuff is certainly difficult
to handle... but even 0402 is \"doable\" with naught more than a decent
magnifying glass (e.g. Optivisors)

[...]
\"Oh, you built a power supply! How impressive! Does it
*do* anything?\"

.... I kinda need to at some point, just to say I did it... and a radio,
and ...


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--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

 

[Dan Purgert]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

On 2023-01-03, Don Y wrote:

On 1/3/2023 9:42 AM, bitrex wrote:
And then people complain the US doesn\'t make electronics anymore. Challenging
programs with a high washout rate AND it doesn\'t pay too good? Wow hard to
believe everyone isn\'t jumping on that one, lol

Nowadays, even \"makers\" don\'t *make* electronics. They just buy
modules and write some code. Modern packages are just too tedious
for hobbyists; you want successes to encourage your efforts, not
failures.

The no-lead stuff and/or exposed bottom pad stuff is certainly difficult
to handle... but even 0402 is \"doable\" with naught more than a decent
magnifying glass (e.g. Optivisors)

[...]
\"Oh, you built a power supply! How impressive! Does it
*do* anything?\"

.... I kinda need to at some point, just to say I did it... and a radio,
and ...


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--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860

 

[bitrex]

On 1/4/2023 12:04 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:

bitrex wrote:
On 1/4/2023 9:52 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 1/3/2023 7:30 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
RichD wrote:
On January 1,  John Larkin wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/18/electrical_engineers_extinction/?td=rt-9cp
I\'ve been thinking for some time now that EE schools don\'t turn out
people who like electricity, but maker culture might.

I advise younguns against an engineering degree, it\'s
over-specialized,
and obsolete in 5 years.

Only if you get sucked into spending all your time on the flavor of
the month.  People who spend their time in school learning
fundamental things that are hard to master on your own (math,
mostly) and then pick up the other stuff as they go along don\'t get
obsolete.  That\'s not difficult to do in your average EE program
even today, AFAICT. Signals and systems, electrodynamics, solid
state theory, and a bit of quantum are all good things to know.

Spending all your time in school programming in Javascript or VHDL
or memorizing compliance requirements is not a good career move for
an EE.

I tell them to get a physics education.  Study hard.  Then you have
the
tools to do anything you want.

Physicists turn up everywhere, it\'s true.  Folks with bachelor\'s
degrees in physics can do most kinds of engineering, provided
they\'re willing to bone up on the specifics.  Of course there are
some who assume they know everything and just bull ahead till they
fail, but, well, human beings are everyplace.   Thing is, the
basic professional qualification for a physicist is a doctorate,
whereas in engineering it\'s a BSEE.

That is, first the academics, then the vocational training.

I agree that knowing the fundamentals cold is very important.
However, (a) physics isn\'t for everyone, by a long chalk; and (b)
there\'s a glorious intellectual heritage in engineering, so calling
it \'vocational training\' is pejorative.

Cheers

Phil \"Intermediate energy state\" Hobbs


Advanced engineering mathematics:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194964206310

Which is pretty advanced, I don\'t know how many BS-type EEs know
about the orthogonality of Bessel functions, or regularly use contour
integration for anything.

But not as advanced as \"Advanced Mathematical Methods for Scientists
& Engineers\", which is largely about perturbation methods, boundary
layer theory, and WKB approximations. Sounds fun I guess, I just got
a used copy from Amazon for $8

I would expect stuff like the WKB approximation is regularly used more
in optics design than in circuit design, though.

WKB is common in approximate quantum theory, e.g. solid state.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I see, in a \"we can solve the hydrogen atom exactly & that\'s it\" sense.

 

[bitrex]

On 1/4/2023 12:04 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:

bitrex wrote:
On 1/4/2023 9:52 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 1/3/2023 7:30 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
RichD wrote:
On January 1,  John Larkin wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/18/electrical_engineers_extinction/?td=rt-9cp
I\'ve been thinking for some time now that EE schools don\'t turn out
people who like electricity, but maker culture might.

I advise younguns against an engineering degree, it\'s
over-specialized,
and obsolete in 5 years.

Only if you get sucked into spending all your time on the flavor of
the month.  People who spend their time in school learning
fundamental things that are hard to master on your own (math,
mostly) and then pick up the other stuff as they go along don\'t get
obsolete.  That\'s not difficult to do in your average EE program
even today, AFAICT. Signals and systems, electrodynamics, solid
state theory, and a bit of quantum are all good things to know.

Spending all your time in school programming in Javascript or VHDL
or memorizing compliance requirements is not a good career move for
an EE.

I tell them to get a physics education.  Study hard.  Then you have
the
tools to do anything you want.

Physicists turn up everywhere, it\'s true.  Folks with bachelor\'s
degrees in physics can do most kinds of engineering, provided
they\'re willing to bone up on the specifics.  Of course there are
some who assume they know everything and just bull ahead till they
fail, but, well, human beings are everyplace.   Thing is, the
basic professional qualification for a physicist is a doctorate,
whereas in engineering it\'s a BSEE.

That is, first the academics, then the vocational training.

I agree that knowing the fundamentals cold is very important.
However, (a) physics isn\'t for everyone, by a long chalk; and (b)
there\'s a glorious intellectual heritage in engineering, so calling
it \'vocational training\' is pejorative.

Cheers

Phil \"Intermediate energy state\" Hobbs


Advanced engineering mathematics:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194964206310

Which is pretty advanced, I don\'t know how many BS-type EEs know
about the orthogonality of Bessel functions, or regularly use contour
integration for anything.

But not as advanced as \"Advanced Mathematical Methods for Scientists
& Engineers\", which is largely about perturbation methods, boundary
layer theory, and WKB approximations. Sounds fun I guess, I just got
a used copy from Amazon for $8

I would expect stuff like the WKB approximation is regularly used more
in optics design than in circuit design, though.

WKB is common in approximate quantum theory, e.g. solid state.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I see, in a \"we can solve the hydrogen atom exactly & that\'s it\" sense.

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 05.01.23 um 22:45 schrieb Joerg:

On 1/4/23 7:23 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
On 2023-01-04, legg wrote:
[...]
Also called into another business to \'break in\' a new production
line tester/troubleshooter. He didn\'t know what the color code was.
I guess he knows it now. Local tech school graduate of recent import.

I\'m assuming you mean the telecoms colors for binder groups?  Or was it
something else?


But these days graduates do know the colors of the LGBT flag

As if this was something new. I knew a bio-girl then who liked
to call herself HerrMann. In German you cannot modify THAT name
to something more male in 8 letters. At the same time you could
discuss with her the Q and phase noise properties of of
dielectric puck oscillators.

Frankly, I could understand much less being a true follower of
a transmogrified bronze time weather god and to claim to be
scientifically oriented at the same time.
Cognitive dissonance must hurt.


Gerhard

 

[bitrex]

On 1/4/2023 12:04 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:

bitrex wrote:
On 1/4/2023 9:52 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 1/3/2023 7:30 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
RichD wrote:
On January 1,  John Larkin wrote:
https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/18/electrical_engineers_extinction/?td=rt-9cp
I\'ve been thinking for some time now that EE schools don\'t turn out
people who like electricity, but maker culture might.

I advise younguns against an engineering degree, it\'s
over-specialized,
and obsolete in 5 years.

Only if you get sucked into spending all your time on the flavor of
the month.  People who spend their time in school learning
fundamental things that are hard to master on your own (math,
mostly) and then pick up the other stuff as they go along don\'t get
obsolete.  That\'s not difficult to do in your average EE program
even today, AFAICT. Signals and systems, electrodynamics, solid
state theory, and a bit of quantum are all good things to know.

Spending all your time in school programming in Javascript or VHDL
or memorizing compliance requirements is not a good career move for
an EE.

I tell them to get a physics education.  Study hard.  Then you have
the
tools to do anything you want.

Physicists turn up everywhere, it\'s true.  Folks with bachelor\'s
degrees in physics can do most kinds of engineering, provided
they\'re willing to bone up on the specifics.  Of course there are
some who assume they know everything and just bull ahead till they
fail, but, well, human beings are everyplace.   Thing is, the
basic professional qualification for a physicist is a doctorate,
whereas in engineering it\'s a BSEE.

That is, first the academics, then the vocational training.

I agree that knowing the fundamentals cold is very important.
However, (a) physics isn\'t for everyone, by a long chalk; and (b)
there\'s a glorious intellectual heritage in engineering, so calling
it \'vocational training\' is pejorative.

Cheers

Phil \"Intermediate energy state\" Hobbs


Advanced engineering mathematics:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194964206310

Which is pretty advanced, I don\'t know how many BS-type EEs know
about the orthogonality of Bessel functions, or regularly use contour
integration for anything.

But not as advanced as \"Advanced Mathematical Methods for Scientists
& Engineers\", which is largely about perturbation methods, boundary
layer theory, and WKB approximations. Sounds fun I guess, I just got
a used copy from Amazon for $8

I would expect stuff like the WKB approximation is regularly used more
in optics design than in circuit design, though.

WKB is common in approximate quantum theory, e.g. solid state.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I see, in a \"we can solve the hydrogen atom exactly & that\'s it\" sense.

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 05.01.23 um 22:45 schrieb Joerg:

On 1/4/23 7:23 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
On 2023-01-04, legg wrote:
[...]
Also called into another business to \'break in\' a new production
line tester/troubleshooter. He didn\'t know what the color code was.
I guess he knows it now. Local tech school graduate of recent import.

I\'m assuming you mean the telecoms colors for binder groups?  Or was it
something else?


But these days graduates do know the colors of the LGBT flag

As if this was something new. I knew a bio-girl then who liked
to call herself HerrMann. In German you cannot modify THAT name
to something more male in 8 letters. At the same time you could
discuss with her the Q and phase noise properties of of
dielectric puck oscillators.

Frankly, I could understand much less being a true follower of
a transmogrified bronze time weather god and to claim to be
scientifically oriented at the same time.
Cognitive dissonance must hurt.


Gerhard

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 5:52:35 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:

On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 11:31:33 AM UTC-8, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 11:22:49 AM UTC-8, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 2:16:50 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 11:10:02 AM UTC-8, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 1:42:05 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 10:14:06 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2023 09:34:02 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs..fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 1:19:58 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:

<snip>

If you are going to be working on HV circuits (>240 V) ONLY use DMMs with a CAT certification (which cheap Chinese meters don\'t have).
https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/safety/multimeter-guide

Which doesn\'t tell you much.

\"The latest UL standard for electrical test instruments is UL 61010B-1, which is a revision of 3111-1. It specifies the general safety requirements, such as material, design, and testing requirements, and the environmental conditions in which the standard applies. UL 3111-2-031 lists additional requirements for test probes. The requirements for hand-held current clamps, such as the current measuring portion of clamp meters, are included in UL 3111-2-032.

UL standards are gradually being harmonized with similar international standards, such as those published by IEC. Until this is completed, there may be significant differences between each group\'s standards. For example, IEC 61010-1 2nd Edition includes requirements for voltage-measuring instruments in CAT IV environments. UL 61010B-1 doesn\'t.\"

What Flyguy might be saying - if he knew what he was talking out - is that there are safety standards for multimeters. In the US they are published by the Underwriter
Laboratory.

There are also international safety standards.

https://www.nema.org/standards/international/the-iec-and-nema

The International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland is the top level body.

A chinese multi-meter might well not conform to an American Underwriters Laboratory standard, but will probably conform to the relevant IEC standard, which isn\'t going to be much different.

A cheap chinese meter might be truly cheap and nasty, and correspondlngly dangerous, but anybody who sold it to you would risk being sued if it was.

It\'s more likely to be cheap because it was produced in high volume, rather than because the manufacturer cut any corners. I\'ve ran into one American instrument that didn\'t meet their published specifications, which is a slightly different kind of problem - it wasn\'t certainly wasn\'t cheap.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 5:52:35 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:

On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 11:31:33 AM UTC-8, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 11:22:49 AM UTC-8, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 2:16:50 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 11:10:02 AM UTC-8, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 1:42:05 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 10:14:06 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2023 09:34:02 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs..fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 1:19:58 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:

<snip>

If you are going to be working on HV circuits (>240 V) ONLY use DMMs with a CAT certification (which cheap Chinese meters don\'t have).
https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/safety/multimeter-guide

Which doesn\'t tell you much.

\"The latest UL standard for electrical test instruments is UL 61010B-1, which is a revision of 3111-1. It specifies the general safety requirements, such as material, design, and testing requirements, and the environmental conditions in which the standard applies. UL 3111-2-031 lists additional requirements for test probes. The requirements for hand-held current clamps, such as the current measuring portion of clamp meters, are included in UL 3111-2-032.

UL standards are gradually being harmonized with similar international standards, such as those published by IEC. Until this is completed, there may be significant differences between each group\'s standards. For example, IEC 61010-1 2nd Edition includes requirements for voltage-measuring instruments in CAT IV environments. UL 61010B-1 doesn\'t.\"

What Flyguy might be saying - if he knew what he was talking out - is that there are safety standards for multimeters. In the US they are published by the Underwriter
Laboratory.

There are also international safety standards.

https://www.nema.org/standards/international/the-iec-and-nema

The International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland is the top level body.

A chinese multi-meter might well not conform to an American Underwriters Laboratory standard, but will probably conform to the relevant IEC standard, which isn\'t going to be much different.

A cheap chinese meter might be truly cheap and nasty, and correspondlngly dangerous, but anybody who sold it to you would risk being sued if it was.

It\'s more likely to be cheap because it was produced in high volume, rather than because the manufacturer cut any corners. I\'ve ran into one American instrument that didn\'t meet their published specifications, which is a slightly different kind of problem - it wasn\'t certainly wasn\'t cheap.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 5:52:35 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:

On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 11:31:33 AM UTC-8, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 11:22:49 AM UTC-8, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 2:16:50 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 11:10:02 AM UTC-8, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 1:42:05 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2023 at 10:14:06 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2023 09:34:02 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs..fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 1:19:58 PM UTC-5, Ed Lee wrote:

<snip>

If you are going to be working on HV circuits (>240 V) ONLY use DMMs with a CAT certification (which cheap Chinese meters don\'t have).
https://www.fluke.com/en-us/learn/blog/safety/multimeter-guide

Which doesn\'t tell you much.

\"The latest UL standard for electrical test instruments is UL 61010B-1, which is a revision of 3111-1. It specifies the general safety requirements, such as material, design, and testing requirements, and the environmental conditions in which the standard applies. UL 3111-2-031 lists additional requirements for test probes. The requirements for hand-held current clamps, such as the current measuring portion of clamp meters, are included in UL 3111-2-032.

UL standards are gradually being harmonized with similar international standards, such as those published by IEC. Until this is completed, there may be significant differences between each group\'s standards. For example, IEC 61010-1 2nd Edition includes requirements for voltage-measuring instruments in CAT IV environments. UL 61010B-1 doesn\'t.\"

What Flyguy might be saying - if he knew what he was talking out - is that there are safety standards for multimeters. In the US they are published by the Underwriter
Laboratory.

There are also international safety standards.

https://www.nema.org/standards/international/the-iec-and-nema

The International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) headquartered in Geneva, Switzerland is the top level body.

A chinese multi-meter might well not conform to an American Underwriters Laboratory standard, but will probably conform to the relevant IEC standard, which isn\'t going to be much different.

A cheap chinese meter might be truly cheap and nasty, and correspondlngly dangerous, but anybody who sold it to you would risk being sued if it was.

It\'s more likely to be cheap because it was produced in high volume, rather than because the manufacturer cut any corners. I\'ve ran into one American instrument that didn\'t meet their published specifications, which is a slightly different kind of problem - it wasn\'t certainly wasn\'t cheap.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Don Y]

On 1/9/2023 5:15 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:

On 2023-01-09, Don Y wrote:
On 1/8/2023 6:10 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
[...]
Yes, but the only \"value\" is about 2 hours of \"read from this stack of
DVDs\". Which, is more of a case of \"well this is annoying\" and less of
\"well, I am screwed\".

They don\'t know that. So, they just blanket target everyone (that
they can)... and hope they catch a few (fools).

You might, instead, look at imaging the disk onto more spinning rust.

I do that as well; but less frequently. My underlying point was more
that the \"valuable\" stuff has (completely offline) backups.

I don\'t do real backups of \"user data\". I rely on the most recent image
(which may not have the most current app configuration settings) to
recover the system disk.

The other disks often have large \"libraries\" -- that I can reinstall from
their original media, so little incentive to backup those.

The stuff that I personally generate (\"user files\") I just routinely push
off to another host or, check-in to the VCS if it\'s something that I
want to track (I\'m not going to bother formally tracking a table that
summarizes the hardware configurations of all my machines; I\'ll just stash
a copy <somewhere> and know to go looking for it *if* the workstation
on which it resided happens to die.

The only \"exposed\" machine, here, is this one. And, there\'s nothing on it
(except some downloads that I haven\'t yet SneakerNetted to another host).
Every ~6 months, I pull the disk and restore the original image to a new disk.
At the *next* 6 month interval, I run a final virus check on the pulled disk
(giving the AV folks a full year to recognize any 0-day expoits that may have
been active when I pulled the disk 6+6 months earlier). Then, wipe the
disk and put it in the queue for one of the future 6-month refreshes.

[SWMBO has a laptop that she uses for ecommerce, banking, etc. When it
boots, it restores its original image (kept deliberately small as the
laptop doesn\'t need to do anything beside surf the web!) It makes for
a longer boot but gives lots of peace-of-mind.]

 

[Don Y]

On 1/9/2023 5:15 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:

On 2023-01-09, Don Y wrote:
On 1/8/2023 6:10 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
[...]
Yes, but the only \"value\" is about 2 hours of \"read from this stack of
DVDs\". Which, is more of a case of \"well this is annoying\" and less of
\"well, I am screwed\".

They don\'t know that. So, they just blanket target everyone (that
they can)... and hope they catch a few (fools).

You might, instead, look at imaging the disk onto more spinning rust.

I do that as well; but less frequently. My underlying point was more
that the \"valuable\" stuff has (completely offline) backups.

I don\'t do real backups of \"user data\". I rely on the most recent image
(which may not have the most current app configuration settings) to
recover the system disk.

The other disks often have large \"libraries\" -- that I can reinstall from
their original media, so little incentive to backup those.

The stuff that I personally generate (\"user files\") I just routinely push
off to another host or, check-in to the VCS if it\'s something that I
want to track (I\'m not going to bother formally tracking a table that
summarizes the hardware configurations of all my machines; I\'ll just stash
a copy <somewhere> and know to go looking for it *if* the workstation
on which it resided happens to die.

The only \"exposed\" machine, here, is this one. And, there\'s nothing on it
(except some downloads that I haven\'t yet SneakerNetted to another host).
Every ~6 months, I pull the disk and restore the original image to a new disk.
At the *next* 6 month interval, I run a final virus check on the pulled disk
(giving the AV folks a full year to recognize any 0-day expoits that may have
been active when I pulled the disk 6+6 months earlier). Then, wipe the
disk and put it in the queue for one of the future 6-month refreshes.

[SWMBO has a laptop that she uses for ecommerce, banking, etc. When it
boots, it restores its original image (kept deliberately small as the
laptop doesn\'t need to do anything beside surf the web!) It makes for
a longer boot but gives lots of peace-of-mind.]

 

[Don Y]

On 1/9/2023 5:15 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:

On 2023-01-09, Don Y wrote:
On 1/8/2023 6:10 AM, Dan Purgert wrote:
[...]
Yes, but the only \"value\" is about 2 hours of \"read from this stack of
DVDs\". Which, is more of a case of \"well this is annoying\" and less of
\"well, I am screwed\".

They don\'t know that. So, they just blanket target everyone (that
they can)... and hope they catch a few (fools).

You might, instead, look at imaging the disk onto more spinning rust.

I do that as well; but less frequently. My underlying point was more
that the \"valuable\" stuff has (completely offline) backups.

I don\'t do real backups of \"user data\". I rely on the most recent image
(which may not have the most current app configuration settings) to
recover the system disk.

The other disks often have large \"libraries\" -- that I can reinstall from
their original media, so little incentive to backup those.

The stuff that I personally generate (\"user files\") I just routinely push
off to another host or, check-in to the VCS if it\'s something that I
want to track (I\'m not going to bother formally tracking a table that
summarizes the hardware configurations of all my machines; I\'ll just stash
a copy <somewhere> and know to go looking for it *if* the workstation
on which it resided happens to die.

The only \"exposed\" machine, here, is this one. And, there\'s nothing on it
(except some downloads that I haven\'t yet SneakerNetted to another host).
Every ~6 months, I pull the disk and restore the original image to a new disk.
At the *next* 6 month interval, I run a final virus check on the pulled disk
(giving the AV folks a full year to recognize any 0-day expoits that may have
been active when I pulled the disk 6+6 months earlier). Then, wipe the
disk and put it in the queue for one of the future 6-month refreshes.

[SWMBO has a laptop that she uses for ecommerce, banking, etc. When it
boots, it restores its original image (kept deliberately small as the
laptop doesn\'t need to do anything beside surf the web!) It makes for
a longer boot but gives lots of peace-of-mind.]