Maximum clock frequency ?

[Skybuck Flying]

Hi,

I am beginning to understand how CPU's and chip like that work.

I think the clock frequency is very important.

It's almost like the hearbeat of the computer.

It determines how fast the signals change from zero to one and back.

And these signals are what drives the computer.

So I think a very important question would be:

What is the maximum frequency that these kind of "cpu clocks" can provide ?

Other components should ofcourse also be able to handle these high
frequencies.

Like t_flipflops etc

So what's the best of the best at the moment ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

Hi Skybuck,

this is a VHDL discussion board ;o)
And not a general information board ;o)

Rgds
André

 

[jon@beniston.com]

The fastest transistor I've heard of operates at 604 GHz.

Cheers,
Jon

 

[Neo]

jon@beniston.com wrote:

The fastest transistor I've heard of operates at 604 GHz.

Cheers,
Jon

I thought the Illinois university guys had obtained transistors
operating at 1 Tera Hz .

 

[Roger Hamlett]

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcnbgj$8fr$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...

Hi,

I am beginning to understand how CPU's and chip like that work.

I think the clock frequency is very important.

It's almost like the hearbeat of the computer.

It determines how fast the signals change from zero to one and back.

And these signals are what drives the computer.

So I think a very important question would be:

What is the maximum frequency that these kind of "cpu clocks" can
provide ?

Other components should ofcourse also be able to handle these high
frequencies.

Like t_flipflops etc

So what's the best of the best at the moment ?

Bye,
Skybuck.
Remember also, that the clock frequency is only one 'part' of the equation

giving what the system can do. It is effectively multiplied by the 'width'
of the registers, when dealing with numerical values, and also may be
multiplied internally using either a PLL, or short phase delays, so
multiple operations are generated in each clock. you should really think
about the clock, like the speedlimit on a road, with the width of the
registers, being perhaps like the difference between a motorbike, and a
bus, while the internal phase seqencing, acts like having multiple lanes
of traffic running in parallel. In terms of the actual number of people
the road can carry, you have to multiply all these differences together,
but the clocking limits the minimum time a single person can take to
transit part of the road. An internal PLL, acts like a local 'expressway',
reducing this time.

Best Wishes

 

[Helmut Sennewald]

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:dcnbgj$8fr$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...

Hi,

I am beginning to understand how CPU's and chip like that work.

I think the clock frequency is very important.

It's almost like the hearbeat of the computer.

It determines how fast the signals change from zero to one and back.

And these signals are what drives the computer.

So I think a very important question would be:

What is the maximum frequency that these kind of "cpu clocks" can provide
?

Other components should ofcourse also be able to handle these high
frequencies.

Like t_flipflops etc

Hello Skybuck,

forget T-fliflops. This is the least important part of an
IC-design. I know you read about it in a VHDL intro book,
but they made this just as an example and not because it's
important.

You should really look first for a FPGA design flow,
e.g. www.altera.com , ..., www.xilinx.com.
After you understand that you can look for full costom ICs.

You can buy divider flipflops with 20GHz.

Best regards,
Helmut

 

[Skybuck Flying]

"Roger Hamlett" <rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:_AIHe.95$0g7.12@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcnbgj$8fr$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
Hi,

I am beginning to understand how CPU's and chip like that work.

I think the clock frequency is very important.

It's almost like the hearbeat of the computer.

It determines how fast the signals change from zero to one and back.

And these signals are what drives the computer.

So I think a very important question would be:

What is the maximum frequency that these kind of "cpu clocks" can
provide ?

Other components should ofcourse also be able to handle these high
frequencies.

Like t_flipflops etc

So what's the best of the best at the moment ?

Bye,
Skybuck.
Remember also, that the clock frequency is only one 'part' of the equation
giving what the system can do. It is effectively multiplied by the 'width'
of the registers, when dealing with numerical values, and also may be
multiplied internally using either a PLL, or short phase delays, so
multiple operations are generated in each clock. you should really think
about the clock, like the speedlimit on a road, with the width of the
registers, being perhaps like the difference between a motorbike, and a
bus, while the internal phase seqencing, acts like having multiple lanes
of traffic running in parallel. In terms of the actual number of people
the road can carry, you have to multiply all these differences together,
but the clocking limits the minimum time a single person can take to
transit part of the road. An internal PLL, acts like a local 'expressway',
reducing this time.

Ok so if this is my clock rate:

111111111111111000000000000000

Can the PLL divide it into:

1111111100000000111111100000000 ?

or maybe even further into

11110000111100001111000011110000 ?

I think that's what it could do/does ?

So the PLL creates a faster clock rate inside the chip ?

Would this mean the "normal" clock is outside of the chip ?

How many real clocks or oscilators(=clock?) are there ?

Can the main memory chips and the cpu share the same clock ?

However a transistor is not a clock so my original question is not yet
answered ?

So what's the fastest clock on todays computers and say 5 years from now ?

For my one bit streaming cpu a PLL might not be interesting...

Since I was more thinking of having all the bits stream
across/through/into/out of the cpu directly from main memory

The question is if multiple bits can be transfered in serial over a single
wire with a slower clock frequency and then still be processed by a cpu with
a faster clock frequency... the cpu would have to buffer some bits I guess.
Or something like that... maybe not possible or maybe it would be
possible with bursts.

However... since I don't like all this complexity... (and I dont like bursts
too ) I am wondering if my simple cpu will need a clock at all

So just for the kick of it

Can VHDL also be used to design/test circuitry without clocks in them ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Well, I have thought a little bit about my question if it is possible to
transfer data from main memory to the cpu and back without requiring a
clock.

The way to do this would be to make "special cables" or "special wires"
which actually simply consists out of a sort of circuitry or transistors or
stuff like that.

The transistors or circuits orwhatever in the cable/wire simply pass bits
from transitor to transitor... or something like that

As fast as they can etc...

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Tim Wescott]

Skybuck Flying wrote:

Hi,

I am beginning to understand how CPU's and chip like that work.

I think the clock frequency is very important.

It's almost like the hearbeat of the computer.

It determines how fast the signals change from zero to one and back.

And these signals are what drives the computer.

So I think a very important question would be:

What is the maximum frequency that these kind of "cpu clocks" can provide ?

Other components should ofcourse also be able to handle these high
frequencies.

Like t_flipflops etc

So what's the best of the best at the moment ?

Bye,
Skybuck.


Instead of asking all these painfully basic questions and getting

one-off short answers, perhaps you should go shopping at your local
bookstore or on the web for information on computer architecture?
Trying to get 50,000 words worth of information from random newsgroup
queries is like trying to build a house out of cut-off ends of 2x4
lumber -- and it makes us work at answering questions bit by bit that
are better answered all at once (or at least in much larger chunks).

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

 

[Mac]

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 01:44:21 -0700, ALuPin wrote:

Hi Skybuck,

this is a VHDL discussion board ;o)
And not a general information board ;o)

Rgds
André

Actually, he is cross-trolling to comp.arch, comp.lang.vhdl, and
sci.electronics.design, which is where I'm reading it.

--Mac

 

[Bernd Paysan]

Neo wrote:

I thought the Illinois university guys had obtained transistors
operating at 1 Tera Hz .

The fastest transistors seem to be carbon nanotubes, and IIRC, they go well
above 1 THz. The main problem to get real figures is probably the
unsuitable equipment to measure these things. In theory, a carbon nanotube
oscillator should be able to drive a 300nm carbon nanotube dipole, emitting
blue light (now that would be something that's not that hard to measure).

--
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/

 

[JeffM]

I think the clock frequency is very important.
What is the maximum frequency that these kind of "cpu clocks" can provide ?
Skybuck Flying

Instead of asking all these painfully basic questions and getting
one-off short answers, perhaps you should go shopping at your local
bookstore or on the web for information on computer architecture?
Tim Wescott

In addition, learning to use a search engine
and finding out how to narrow a search
has an instructive quality all its own.

Here's the one for the sci.electronics.* part of the Usenet Archives:
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/dir?lnk=gh&sel=33580724

 

[Skybuck Flying]

"JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message
news:1123281266.100777.106110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I think the clock frequency is very important.
What is the maximum frequency that these kind of "cpu clocks" can
provide ?
Skybuck Flying

Instead of asking all these painfully basic questions and getting
one-off short answers, perhaps you should go shopping at your local
bookstore or on the web for information on computer architecture?
Tim Wescott

In addition, learning to use a search engine
and finding out how to narrow a search
has an instructive quality all its own.

Here's the one for the sci.electronics.* part of the Usenet Archives:
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/dir?lnk=gh&sel=33580724

I am getting a error:

"
Server Error
The server encountered an error and could not complete your request.
If the problem persists, please report your problem and mention this error
message and the query that caused it.
"

Maybe only a temporarely problem.

I still haven't seen any answer to my question...

What's the maximum frequency nowadays ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Dan Koren]

While one should not in general feed the trolls as a
matter of principle, I will make an exception just to
point out that your question suggests you have not
really thought about the problem in any depth.

What matters most for real circuit design is not the
highest frequency that the clock can generate -- but
rather how far can the clock signal be propagated
reliably and without excessive distortion (distance
and fan-out).



dk


"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcnbgj$8fr$1@news2.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...

Hi,

I am beginning to understand how CPU's and chip like that work.

I think the clock frequency is very important.

It's almost like the hearbeat of the computer.

It determines how fast the signals change from zero to one and back.

And these signals are what drives the computer.

So I think a very important question would be:

What is the maximum frequency that these kind of "cpu clocks" can provide
?

Other components should ofcourse also be able to handle these high
frequencies.

Like t_flipflops etc

So what's the best of the best at the moment ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[xray]

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 08:50:59 +0200, "Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Bye,
Skybuck.

Is something we are all beginning to wish you would take more seriously.

 

[Helmut Sennewald]

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:dd1mh0$9bo$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...

"JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message
news:1123281266.100777.106110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I think the clock frequency is very important.
What is the maximum frequency that these kind of "cpu clocks" can
provide ?
Skybuck Flying

Instead of asking all these painfully basic questions and getting
one-off short answers, perhaps you should go shopping at your local
bookstore or on the web for information on computer architecture?
Tim Wescott

In addition, learning to use a search engine
and finding out how to narrow a search
has an instructive quality all its own.

Here's the one for the sci.electronics.* part of the Usenet Archives:
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/dir?lnk=gh&sel=33580724

I am getting a error:

"
Server Error
The server encountered an error and could not complete your request.
If the problem persists, please report your problem and mention this error
message and the query that caused it.
"

Maybe only a temporarely problem.

I still haven't seen any answer to my question...

What's the maximum frequency nowadays ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

Hello Skybuck,

you should see a dozen answers to your question if not then
try another news group reader.

Again,
You can achieve 20GHz(20e9Hz) with a T-fliflop.

Other insist they can get 100Tflop.
Now I know why you wanted a design with T(flip)flop.
Maybe this "flip" doubles the Tflop.
http://www.hoise.com/primeur/03/articles/live/AE-PL-06-03-5.html
Sorry, I couldn't resist.


A real answer:

A simple processor alone could achieve some GHz, e.g. 10GHz,
but it becomes very expensive and anotrher problem is feeding
such a beast with enough data from memory.
This is then something for an IEEE paper, but nothing which
will make you rich.

Best regards,
Helmut

 

[Skybuck Flying]

"Dan Koren" <dankoren@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42f4635c$1@news.meer.net...

While one should not in general feed the trolls as a
matter of principle, I will make an exception just to
point out that your question suggests you have not
really thought about the problem in any depth.

What matters most for real circuit design is not the
highest frequency that the clock can generate -- but
rather how far can the clock signal be propagated
reliably and without excessive distortion (distance
and fan-out).

Yesssss but maybe the propagation length doesn't matter for a small circuit
like my 1 bit cpu =D

So I would still like to know what the maximum frequency is

And in case the circuit is bigger how do circuits nowadays propagate the
clock signal reliably

Bye,
Skybuck

 

[Sander Vesik]

In comp.arch Skybuck Flying <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yesssss but maybe the propagation length doesn't matter for a small circuit
like my 1 bit cpu =D

Or maybe it does? But its up to you to find out.

So I would still like to know what the maximum frequency is

There is no such thing. Or very close to no such thing, except possibly
somewhere in UV/r?ntgen border area.

And in case the circuit is bigger how do circuits nowadays propagate the
clock signal reliably

You should first use Google and then ask. Or will you only be sensible when
skybucks^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpigs fly?

Bye,
Skybuck

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

 

[Skybuck Flying]

"Helmut Sennewald" <helmutsennewald@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:dd1qc1$fbr$04$1@news.t-online.com...

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:dd1mh0$9bo$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...

"JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message
news:1123281266.100777.106110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I think the clock frequency is very important.
What is the maximum frequency that these kind of "cpu clocks" can
provide ?
Skybuck Flying

Instead of asking all these painfully basic questions and getting
one-off short answers, perhaps you should go shopping at your local
bookstore or on the web for information on computer architecture?
Tim Wescott

In addition, learning to use a search engine
and finding out how to narrow a search
has an instructive quality all its own.

Here's the one for the sci.electronics.* part of the Usenet Archives:
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups/dir?lnk=gh&sel=33580724

I am getting a error:

"
Server Error
The server encountered an error and could not complete your request.
If the problem persists, please report your problem and mention this
error
message and the query that caused it.
"

Maybe only a temporarely problem.

I still haven't seen any answer to my question...

What's the maximum frequency nowadays ?

Bye,
Skybuck.


Hello Skybuck,

you should see a dozen answers to your question if not then
try another news group reader.

Again,
You can achieve 20GHz(20e9Hz) with a T-fliflop.

??

But a T-flipflop is not a clock ???

Other insist they can get 100Tflop.
Now I know why you wanted a design with T(flip)flop.
Maybe this "flip" doubles the Tflop.
http://www.hoise.com/primeur/03/articles/live/AE-PL-06-03-5.html
Sorry, I couldn't resist.


A real answer:

A simple processor alone could achieve some GHz, e.g. 10GHz,
but it becomes very expensive and anotrher problem is feeding
such a beast with enough data from memory.
This is then something for an IEEE paper, but nothing which
will make you rich.

Best regards,
Helmut

 

[Dan Koren]

"Skybuck Flying" <nospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dd1qg1$mu$1@news5.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...

"Dan Koren" <dankoren@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42f4635c$1@news.meer.net...


While one should not in general feed the trolls as a
matter of principle, I will make an exception just to
point out that your question suggests you have not
really thought about the problem in any depth.

What matters most for real circuit design is not the
highest frequency that the clock can generate -- but
rather how far can the clock signal be propagated
reliably and without excessive distortion (distance
and fan-out).

Yesssss but maybe the propagation length doesn't matter for a small
circuit
like my 1 bit cpu =D

So I would still like to know what the maximum frequency is

And in case the circuit is bigger how do circuits nowadays propagate the
clock signal reliably

For a single bit you can use your great-grandfather's
pocket watch. It shouldn't make any difference.



dk