MAKING DIY PCBs: New info posted!

[Thomas P. Gootee]

-----------------------------------

MAKING DIY PCBs: New info posted!

-----------------------------------

I have posted some very useful new information about making your own
printed circuit board(s) (PCB(s)), on my PCB-Making webpage, at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

The toner-transfer method covered enables producing prototype PCBs at
home from computer-generated artwork (even just bitmaps) printed on a
laser printer (or artwork from a compatible copy machine).

The new information presented includes details of a newly-tried,
low-cost, readily-available type of paper that seems to work
*flawlessly*.

New photos of the various stages of paper pattern and printed circuit
board preparation and production are now included, as well, taken
during the production of a prototype circuit board for an actual
commercial product.

Also shown is the application of the same methods to applying artwork
and text to the component side of the PCB, which also works
*extremely* well.

On-line sources for low-cost blank copper-clad circuit-board material
have also been posted.

I have had outstanding results (100% good boards!), with the new paper
type. PCB track-widths of under 10 mils seem to be no problem. And I
haven't even specifically tried to see what the smallest practical
track-width is, yet, although I've had no problems, whatsoever,
running 0.0067-inch-wide tracks between adjacent IC pins' pads. Even
the o's of the "% signs" of 4-point text, which have smaller diameters
than the 0.020-inch-wide component-lead-hole-location marks that I
use, are reproduced *perfectly* in the copper, both "standalone" and
within copper-filled areas. Very large copper-filled areas are also
no longer a problem. And the paper removal is no longer a problem.
Toner-adhesion is excellent, and survives even fairly-hard scrubbing
with a stiff brush, if necessary.

I think that this paper is finally "good enough"! And I can make
circuit boards in about a HALF-HOUR, from printing the pattern through
having an etched board.

I almost never even bother, anymore, with using a breadboard, since
printed circuit boards are now so quickly and easily made, and work
better than those white "plug-in" breadboards that I used to use so
much.

All of the details are posted at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

Regards,

Tom Gootee

-----------------------------------

 

Thomas P. Gootee <tomg@fullnet.com> wrote:

-----------------------------------

MAKING DIY PCBs: New info posted!

-----------------------------------

I have posted some very useful new information about making your own
printed circuit board(s) (PCB(s)), on my PCB-Making webpage, at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

The toner-transfer method covered enables producing prototype PCBs at
home from computer-generated artwork (even just bitmaps) printed on a
laser printer (or artwork from a compatible copy machine).

This method called in Poland papertransfer is in use for many years. First
reference found with google is from 1999 and published one of magazins in
2003.

Many guys use chalkpaper but about 2002 they found that cheapest and good
results are obtainable with paper from woman magazins.

 

[Active8]

On 17 May 2004 09:51:36 GMT,
pisz_na.mirek@dionizos.zind.ikem.pwr.wroc.pl wrote:

Thomas P. Gootee <tomg@fullnet.com> wrote:
-----------------------------------

MAKING DIY PCBs: New info posted!

-----------------------------------

I have posted some very useful new information about making your own
printed circuit board(s) (PCB(s)), on my PCB-Making webpage, at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

The toner-transfer method covered enables producing prototype PCBs at
home from computer-generated artwork (even just bitmaps) printed on a
laser printer (or artwork from a compatible copy machine).

This method called in Poland papertransfer is in use for many years. First
reference found with google is from 1999 and published one of magazins in
2003.

Yes, but he's updated the page and lists a better paper.

Many guys use chalkpaper but about 2002 they found that cheapest and good
results are obtainable with paper from woman magazins.

I've heard of mag paper, but not necessarily from women's mags. A
comparison between that and the Staples paper would be interesting.
--
Best Regards,
Mike

 

[JeffM]

..

 

[Thomas P. Gootee]

pisz_na.mirek@dionizos.zind.ikem.pwr.wroc.pl wrote in message news:<c8a1v8$19v$1@panorama.wcss.wroc.pl>...

Thomas P. Gootee <tomg@fullnet.com> wrote:
-----------------------------------

MAKING DIY PCBs: New info posted!

-----------------------------------

I have posted some very useful new information about making your own
printed circuit board(s) (PCB(s)), on my PCB-Making webpage, at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

The toner-transfer method covered enables producing prototype PCBs at
home from computer-generated artwork (even just bitmaps) printed on a
laser printer (or artwork from a compatible copy machine).

This method called in Poland papertransfer is in use for many years. First
reference found with google is from 1999 and published one of magazins in
2003.

Many guys use chalkpaper but about 2002 they found that cheapest and good
results are obtainable with paper from woman magazins.

Thanks for the response. (Somehow, it reminds me of Checkhov, from the
old "Star Trek" TV series. I loved that show...)

I'm not *claiming* to have *invented* the process.

I just have tried to gather as much information about it as possible,
and also tried some experiments, in an attempt to make it work better,
or "well enough" to be practical.

And I had some successes and thought that the information should be
posted and shared, so other people who want to do the same thing won't
have to spend as much time as I did, duplicating any of my
experimentation, but might, instead, be more likely to be able to ADD
to the base of existing knowledge, since they won't be completely
starting over and can build on what has already been learned.

I guess I started attempting to make PCBs with the toner transfer
method back in early 1998, mostly because of information that I
happened to glean from the newsgroups archive (dejanews.com, at that
time; later deja.com; later bought out by google.com).

I wish some of the people from Poland had shared some information
about it, back then, or before now. If I recall correctly, there were
quite a few threads and posts asking/pleading for information about
"the best way" (or even a halfway GOOD way) to try to do it.

Well, the magazine paper has been mentioned to me, many times. And it
certainly could be the *cheapest* way, if you consider only the cost
of the materials and supplies. I've tried using it, too, with
sort-of-OK results (which could probably get better with practice with
that particular paper).

One of my main problems with the magazine paper, and other similar
"unique" types of paper sources, is that I need to have a
readily-available and reliable supply of paper, of a standard size and
type, even if I'm only doing relatively-low-quantity
production/fabrication of PCBs. I don't make hundreds of boards a
week. But, when I do make them, I often make a batch of thirty or
forty in a day, which is almost always ten identical sets of three or
four different boards.

With the magazine pages, I assume that I would first have to find a
large-enough white area, and then either have to cut out the whole
page and move my PCB pattern so that it came out in the right spot on
the page (assuming the page would go through the printer OK), or, cut
out just the uncluttered portion and tape it to a regular sheet of
printer paper, in the correct location. I actually used to regularly
use methods that were at about the same (fairly high) level of
difficulty, and "uniqueness" for each pass, or worse. It was
perfectly OK, if I wanted to make only one board a day, or one a week,
etc. But one of my major goals eventually became removing as many of
the *non-uniform* aspects of the process as I could, so it would be as
*repeatable* as possible.

I want to be able to go and make a PCB whenever I need to, too, maybe
even "on a moment's notice". And I also want to be able to make, say,
TEN sets of PCBS, all at the same time, with AS LITTLE extra time and
effort as possible, compared to making just one PCB. So, always
having a couple of 100-sheet packages of "perfect" toner-transfer
paper on hand is fairly-important, to me.

I can't remember, offhand, what the cost is, of the "perfect" paper
that I use, at the local "Staples" office-supply store (the paper I
use is actually Staples' OWN brand, called "Staples Picture Paper".
See my PCB-fab homepage, for the exact product-number and UPC codes,
etc etc.). But I *think* the cost is around $0.20 (20 cents) a sheet,
or LESS, in 100-sheet packages.

And, too, I can almost always print more than one PCB pattern on a
sheet. ALL FOUR of the PCBs' patterns for my Curve Tracer product can
fit on one sheet (and all four of the component-sides' "silkscreen"
"component-layout-and-values" patterns can fit on a second sheet.

So, for $0.40-worth of paper, it seems that it wouldn't be at-all
economical, at least not in my case, to take the time to search
through magazines, etc.

But, as I already said farther above, for "one-time PCBs"
("one-offs"/prototypes/etc) and "once-in-while makers of PCBs", it
might be *perfectly* fine, especially if not many other choices are
available. (Like when it's midnight and you want to make a PCB "RIGHT
NOW. TONIGHT.", hehe.)

At any rate, if the toner-transfer characteristics of the magazine
paper are REALLY, REALLY good, I guess I could probably find a source
for buying it in BULK, unused.

So, that brings me to a question I've had, for some time, about the
magazine paper: Have you, or anyone you've talked to about it, ALSO
tried any of the commerically-available glossy inkjet papers
(especially if they're the one or two that worked best for ME), so you
could *compare* any of their toner-transfer characteristics (and relay
any findings)?

Unfortunately, NONE of the many people who have emailed me, rather
enthusiastically I must say, about using the magazine paper had ALSO
(ever) tried the paper that *I* have found to be the best. And *I*
haven't taken the time to test the magazine paper more-thoroughly,
since a) I'm always short of time, it seems, and b) I already have a a
large supply of paper that works perfectly, every time, and meets all
of my current needs for making PCBs, which makes me
"less-than-well-motivated" to start experimenting with other papers
for making PCBs, again. (And, I guess I have to admit: C) I am
getting pretty darn TIRED of trying different types of paper, having
spent SO much time and money on it, in the past.)

Oh well. That's all the time I have, for now! FOr your reference, my
PCB Toner Transfer Process's Homepage is at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

Regards,

Tom Gootee

 

[John Popelish]

"Thomas P. Gootee" wrote:
(snip)

So, that brings me to a question I've had, for some time, about the
magazine paper: Have you, or anyone you've talked to about it, ALSO
tried any of the commerically-available glossy inkjet papers
(especially if they're the one or two that worked best for ME), so you
could *compare* any of their toner-transfer characteristics (and relay
any findings)?
(snip)

Have you ever tried paper specifically made to completely dissolve in
water?

http://www.dissolvo.com/shipping.htm
http://www.aichi-sangyo.co.jp/english/product/PDF/sadopcatalogue_eng.pdf

--
John Popelish

 

[Jeff]

Oh well. That's all the time I have, for now! FOr your reference, my
PCB Toner Transfer Process's Homepage is at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

Regards,

Tom Gootee

Hi Tom,

Somewhat OT, what SW do you produce your pcb board layouts with? I
noticed some nice looking layouts on the site..

 

[Richard Lamb]

the slick shiny pages of womens (and mens!) magazines comes from a
clay layer embedded in the surface of the paper.

Could it be you guys are actually doing a clay transfer for the resist?

Just a randome thought.

Richard Lamb

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Fri, 21 May 2004 02:45:01 GMT, the renowned Richard Lamb
<n6228l@earthlink.net> wrote:

the slick shiny pages of womens (and mens!) magazines comes from a
clay layer embedded in the surface of the paper.

Could it be you guys are actually doing a clay transfer for the resist?

Yes, they're talking about clay coated paper, available from your
local printers' supply depot without all that nasty ink on it.

Just a randome thought.

Just a matchinge response.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Thomas P. Gootee]

Active8 <reply2group@ndbbm.net> wrote in message news:<1sed817v172dd$.dlg@news.individual.net>...

On 17 May 2004 09:51:36 GMT,
pisz_na.mirek@dionizos.zind.ikem.pwr.wroc.pl wrote:

Thomas P. Gootee <tomg@fullnet.com> wrote:
-----------------------------------

MAKING DIY PCBs: New info posted!

-----------------------------------

I have posted some very useful new information about making your own
printed circuit board(s) (PCB(s)), on my PCB-Making webpage, at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

The toner-transfer method covered enables producing prototype PCBs at
home from computer-generated artwork (even just bitmaps) printed on a
laser printer (or artwork from a compatible copy machine).

This method called in Poland papertransfer is in use for many years. First
reference found with google is from 1999 and published one of magazins in
2003.

Yes, but he's updated the page and lists a better paper.

Many guys use chalkpaper but about 2002 they found that cheapest and good
results are obtainable with paper from woman magazins.

I've heard of mag paper, but not necessarily from women's mags. A
comparison between that and the Staples paper would be interesting.

;-)

Well, I guess that a) either men don't have any magazins, there, and
have to get the paper from magazins that women have, OR, b) the
magazins that were mentioned are those that *feature* women, i.e.
maybe "woman magazin", there, means the same thing that something like
"girlie magazine" means, here.

Put another way: I suspect that the paper in the magazines that the
women, there, read, isn't different, generally, on average, than the
paper used in the magazines that the men read.

But, maybe that's not quite right, either: I am beginning to suspect
that maybe the highest-quality (or glossiest and slickest etc, or, for
some reason at least, the best for doing toner transfer) magazine
paper that's used, there, might be that that's used in their "men's
magazines". OR, it may be that their favorite girlie mag just HAPPENS
to use a type of paper that is better for doing toner transfer than
other magaizines that are commonly available to them.

Heheh.

- Tom Gootee

 

[Thomas P. Gootee]

John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message news:<40AD201A.7F71E0F4@rica.net>...

"Thomas P. Gootee" wrote:
(snip)
So, that brings me to a question I've had, for some time, about the
magazine paper: Have you, or anyone you've talked to about it, ALSO
tried any of the commerically-available glossy inkjet papers
(especially if they're the one or two that worked best for ME), so you
could *compare* any of their toner-transfer characteristics (and relay
any findings)?
(snip)

Have you ever tried paper specifically made to completely dissolve in
water?

http://www.dissolvo.com/shipping.htm
http://www.aichi-sangyo.co.jp/english/product/PDF/sadopcatalogue_eng.pdf

John,

No! I haven't!

I don't think that I was even aware that it existed, at least not in a
form suitable for printing on.

Thanks for the links! I'll check them out in the morning.

Regards,

Tom Gootee

 

[Thomas P. Gootee]

Jeff <jeff@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94EFB218E1550jeffnospamcom@199.45.49.11>...

Oh well. That's all the time I have, for now! FOr your reference, my
PCB Toner Transfer Process's Homepage is at:

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm

Regards,

Tom Gootee

Hi Tom,

Somewhat OT, what SW do you produce your pcb board layouts with? I
noticed some nice looking layouts on the site..

Jeff,

The answer to your question is a bit embarrassing. So this might take
a while, while I hem and haw, etc. That particular PCB layout, that's
now pictured on my pcb-making webpage, has been evolving since 1997.
Back then, I had no Windows software to speak of and was strictly
doing it as a hobby, which itself was just starting to re-ignite. I
was still a Unix/Xenix/Linux/DOS C-language software developer, and
did almost all of my real work on an SCO Unix system, almost always in
text mode. But I did have one Windows 95 machine (and a Win 3.1
machine), for testing the DOS ports of the Unix software, running in
DOS under Windows.

To make a long story shorter, back then, when I first wanted to try
making a PCB for that amplifier design, all I had at hand was the MS
Paint app that came with Windows 95. So that's what I started using,
to draw PCB patterns. It wasn't TOO terrible. And someone also gave
me their original CD of Zsoft's Photofinish 3.0, which was much more
powerful than Paint. The MAIN problem, of course, is that you end up
with just raster-type files, such as bitmaps, PCX, etc. But, after a
pcb pattern's drawing has enough hours put into it, and it's "just a
hobby", and it would cost money to change paths (not to mention
another learning curve, etc),inertia can play a pretty big role. I
still have three main PCBs' designs that have never left bitmap
format, all started during that era, which are still important to me
(moreso NOW than then), because they are part of my Curve Tracer
product.

Anyway, to answer your question more-directly, the pattern pictured on
my pcb-making webpage ( http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm )
was made with MS Paint and then, later, ZSoft Photofinish 3.0! To
really blow your mind: I STILL usually use the old Photofinish
program, whenever I modify or print those PCB patterns!

On the plus side, bitmaps are pretty nice for allowing one to
almost-endlessly tweak the exact shapes and sizes of the traces and
pads, separations, etc. And, once you build up a "library" of
components, it's not all that time-consuming. (It's just that the time
that IS spent is basically "wasted", at least when compared to doing
the same thing with proper PCB or CAD-type software.)

Actually, though, since I sell quite a few of these boards as parts of
KITS, for *others* to build, I did do quite a lot of detailed (i.e.
time-consuming) work, to make sure that each pad was large enough to
hit easily with a drill bit, even when space was at a premium in that
area of a board, for example. So the solder pads are definitely not
all the same shape or size, although the newest board-section, which
is mostly what's shown in the photos, just happens to use a lot of
identical pads. One other thing I like to do (and I'm guessing that
all of this and much more might be able to be done better and more
easily with "real" software) is, when making the component-side
"silkscreen" artwork (to iron onto the top (fiberglass) side of
single-sided PCBs), I like to make the components' outlines, and their
values' labeling, in solid black, but also leave the trace pattern
there, "under" the components' drawings, but in a lighter grey color.
I find it nice to be able to also see what the traces are doing, while
looking at the component layout. With the component side of a board
printed with all of the component drawings, and their values, you
almost don't need any assembly diagrams, to stuff and solder the
board. And, when I later make a diagram for the assembly manual that
shows the WIRING details, I use solid black for the wires, dark grey
for the components and their values/labels, and a lighter grey for the
traces. To me, that makes it a lot easier to see what's really going
on, when looking at the diagrams.

But, to possibly stop some of you from gasping and shaking your heads,
at this very moment, I can tell you that I FINALLY (*very* recently)
sent the black-and-white artwork for the three main boards to Bill
Jenkins (Google him. He wrote and sells PCB CAD/CAM software, and does
PCB Fabrication for people. He's a great guy, and was *very*
helpful.). Bill Jenkins started with only my B&W artwork and
basically re-entered everything from scratch, I think, into his pcb
cad software. Then he made me some sample boards and sent me the
boards, and a copy of his software, and the pcb cad files and Gerber
files and Excellon drill files for them, etc etc., all for a price in
the EXTREMELY low three figures! :-o

Thanks for complimenting the layouts. I guess that's one thing that
"endless hand tweaking" of a bitmap drawing can accomplish. And that
was a NEW one, mostly. You should see what the other ones look like,
where not much has changed for a few years, except for endless
hand-refinement of details such as pad size, shape, and placement
(with an eye toward hand-construction by someone who might not be
experienced, etc).

That latest design IS pretty neat, too. The photos show part of the
power amplifier that pushes signals into the Device Under Test, for my
Curve Tracer product. I just re-designed the gain control portion. It
uses a TL1431 (changed from TL431 after photos were taken) 2.5-volt DC
Voltage Reference (the 0.4% version) to derive DC reference voltages
that correspond to the "peak voltage" front-panel switch's settings.
The *actual* peak level of the amplifier's output (usually a sawtooth
ramp or a triangle) is continuously converted to a DC level. A feedbak
control system type of setup subtracts the actual peak level's DC
value from the desired level's DC reference voltage to get an error
signal, which is used to drive a VACTROL used as an
electrically-controlled resistance, which continuously controls the
gain of the amplifier to maintain a zero error signal. The Vactrol is
pretty neat, too. I WAS going to use a MOSFET as the
voltage-controlled resistance. But the Vactrol seemed much simpler,
and better. It's basically just an LED encapsulated with a photocell;
a four-lead device. With 40 mA through the LED, the photocell's leads
are about a 200 Ohm resistor. AT 0 mA, they're about a megohm or
more.

Sorry to have blathered-on for so long, there!! Gotta run!

P.S. For your reference, my Curve Tracer's homepage is at:

http;//www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteect.htm

Regards,

Tom Gootee

 

[Thomas P. Gootee]

Richard Lamb <n6228l@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<40AD6E88.CD3148B2@earthlink.net>...

the slick shiny pages of womens (and mens!) magazines comes from a
clay layer embedded in the surface of the paper.

Could it be you guys are actually doing a clay transfer for the resist?

Just a randome thought.

Richard Lamb

Richard,

I *think* that almost all of the glossy "photo"-type inkjet (and
laser) papers use a clay coating, as I assumed that basically ALL
glossy paper does. That's been discussed, actually, in the past, on
PCB-making newsgroup threads. The clay is probably what enables the
paper to be separate from the toner and board, after the pattern has
been ironed on.

So I guess you're right! We are really doing clay transfers.

- Tom

 

[Jeff]

Regards,

Tom Gootee

Tom,

Thanks for taking time to make an interesting reply. I'm trying to use a
couple of layout products and find I'm getting frustrated with loosing
sight of the board behind all the wierd and wonderful hoops the products
make you jump through. Also haven't got to the point where I can address
most of the points you made about tweeking shapes pad sizes or even just
reducing the amount of copper you need to etch.

Its all a learning curve I guess and I haven't got to the steep bit yet.

thanks again.

 

[Thomas P. Gootee]

Jeff <jeff@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94F082379265Cjeffnospamcom@199.45.49.11>...

Regards,

Tom Gootee


Tom,

Thanks for taking time to make an interesting reply. I'm trying to use a
couple of layout products and find I'm getting frustrated with loosing
sight of the board behind all the wierd and wonderful hoops the products
make you jump through. Also haven't got to the point where I can address
most of the points you made about tweeking shapes pad sizes or even just
reducing the amount of copper you need to etch.

Its all a learning curve I guess and I haven't got to the steep bit yet.

thanks again.

Jeff,

You're welcome. Thanks.

What you're alluding to are probably some of the same things that I
only imagined, which didn't help motivate me to take the leap from
what I WAS using to something that would have, no doubt, been the
better way to go, in the long run. Although, to counter that thought,
I guess I still think of my layouts as quite small (one is 4x6 inches
and two are 2.25x6 inches). And, mine were already basically done,
before I really though about switching software. (However, that still
wouldn't have helped when I wanted to either set up a CNC system to
make and/or drill the boards, or to get them made by a pcb-fab shop.)

Regarding the "learning curve", and this is "just for fun", several
people have pointed out that perhaps the "steep" part of the curve is
"a good thing", implying that you're learning a lot, very quickly. So
it must be those not-so-steep but very long learning curves that are
bad...! Heheh.

But I guess I can imagine what you mean, about "losing sight of the
board" behind the software's complexities. That will probably pass
("learning curve" again). It also kind of reminds me of the time I've
spent doing graphical "bit fiddling", at magnifications of 4X and
more, blinking pixels on and off in a 300 or 600 dpi drawing. (That's
one way to "relax"...)

SOrry I couldn't be of more help.

Regards,

Tom Gootee

http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg