LTSpice, creating a .model for a 2N6286?

[Tony Williams]

2N6286 is an old pnp power darlington transistor,
100V/20A, with a forced hfe of 100, TO-3 package.

I'd like to simulate the (PWM) circuit it is used in,
with LTSpice. An RCA data sheet is available, but
how do I create a .model for it?

Thanks,

PS: I'm thinking of a Hitachi 2SJ217 as a replacement
so need some sort of model for that as well.

Actually 2SJ217 is only a 60V, and I would really
like at least a 100V device. Suggestions welcomed
for a P-type MOSFET, TO247/TO-3P/SOT-93 package,
100V, and as much current capability as the package
will take (to blow a fuse that has a nasty habit of
being replaced by something bigger)....... brick
outhouse time.

--
Tony Williams.

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:49:48 +0100, Tony Williams
<tonyw@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:

2N6286 is an old pnp power darlington transistor,
100V/20A, with a forced hfe of 100, TO-3 package.

I'd like to simulate the (PWM) circuit it is used in,
with LTSpice. An RCA data sheet is available, but
how do I create a .model for it?

Thanks,

PS: I'm thinking of a Hitachi 2SJ217 as a replacement
so need some sort of model for that as well.

Actually 2SJ217 is only a 60V, and I would really
like at least a 100V device. Suggestions welcomed
for a P-type MOSFET, TO247/TO-3P/SOT-93 package,
100V, and as much current capability as the package
will take (to blow a fuse that has a nasty habit of
being replaced by something bigger)....... brick
outhouse time.

Have you tried the LTSpice users' group on Yahoo, Tony? That'd be your
best bet if Googling's failed, I reckon.

--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

 

[Tony Williams]

In article <7s4qn01dlcvrpb8cf5c80t7gmhnv63fbe7@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

A Darlington is really two transistors, so you use a subcircuit
to model it.

Ah yes, it has to be a subcircuit, not a model.
I didn't think of that.

Study beta versus current and the base-emitter resistors to
establish characteristics of each device.

I can do that ok, but my knowlege of Spice is so pitiful Jim
that I don't understand what most of the little acronyms mean.

--
Tony Williams.

 

[Tony Williams]

In article <ii8qn0pbq262nkmd9ol2s1mlamosdsdvf1@4ax.com>,
Terry Pinnel wrote:

Doubt if it will help much, but FWIW the closest CircuitMaker's
library gets to a power PNP darlington is the 2N6042. Its model
is as follows:
[snip details]

Thanks for the subcircuit Terry. It looks a good starting
place that I might be able do something with.

And the placed part looks like this (after some zooming):
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/2N6042.gif

I'll visit later today (job to get out urgently).

Here are the CM PMOS P-Channel MOSFETs, >= 100V and >= 10A:
[snip list]

IRFP9140 100V 21A .0571ohm Power MOSFET pkg:TO-247 2,3,1

That one looks a possibility, thanks for that.

--
Tony Williams.

 

[Tony Williams]

In article <flaqn055gffunm9e18kti0c0a2p26cssv0@4ax.com>,
Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote:

Have you tried the LTSpice users' group on Yahoo, Tony? That'd be
your best bet if Googling's failed, I reckon.

I'm totally useless at Googling (and Yellow Pages).
My keywords are never their keywords.

--
Tony Williams.

 

[Don Pearce]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:57:37 +0100, Tony Williams
<tonyw@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In article <flaqn055gffunm9e18kti0c0a2p26cssv0@4ax.com>,
Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk> wrote:

Have you tried the LTSpice users' group on Yahoo, Tony? That'd be
your best bet if Googling's failed, I reckon.

I'm totally useless at Googling (and Yellow Pages).
My keywords are never their keywords.

Absolutely! I just put in the words "at" and "are", and it totally
failed to find your post. What's all that about?

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

 

[Terry Pinnell]

Tony Williams <tonyw@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In article <ii8qn0pbq262nkmd9ol2s1mlamosdsdvf1@4ax.com>,
Terry Pinnel wrote:

Doubt if it will help much, but FWIW the closest CircuitMaker's
library gets to a power PNP darlington is the 2N6042. Its model
is as follows:
[snip details]

Thanks for the subcircuit Terry. It looks a good starting
place that I might be able do something with.

And the placed part looks like this (after some zooming):
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/2N6042.gif

I'll visit later today (job to get out urgently).

Better, here's one I found with Google:

**************************************
* Model Generated by MODPEX *
*Copyright(c) Symmetry Design Systems*
* All Rights Reserved *
* UNPUBLISHED LICENSED SOFTWARE *
* Contains Proprietary Information *
* Which is The Property of *
* SYMMETRY OR ITS LICENSORS *
* Modeling services provided by *
* Interface Technologies www.i-t.com *
**************************************
..SUBCKT 2n6286 1 2 3
* Model generated on Jan 24, 2004
* Model format: PSpice
* Darlington macro model
* External node designations
* Node 1 -> Collect
* Node 2 -> Base
* Node 3 -> Emitter
Q1 1 2 4 qmodel
Q2 1 4 3 q1model 7.81859
D1 1 3 dmodel
R1 2 4 8000
R2 4 3 50
* Default values used in dmodel
* EG=1.11 TT=0 BV=infinite
..MODEL dmodel d
+IS=1e-12 RS=5.85795 N=0.958579 XTI=2.95858
+CJO=0 VJ=0.75 M=0.33 FC=0.5
..MODEL qmodel pnp
+IS=1.69855e-12 BF=221.401 NF=0.961395 VAF=133.261
+IKF=0.262058 ISE=2.84033e-12 NE=1.5434 BR=0.940867
+NR=1.07398 VAR=36.7145 IKR=0.0998515 ISC=1e-13
+NC=1.95857 RB=14.9267 IRB=0.158579 RBM=14.9267
+RE=0.125332 RC=0.62666 XTB=0.384111 XTI=2.95173 EG=1.05
+CJE=4.25427e-10 VJE=0.4 MJE=0.334318 TF=1e-09
+XTF=1 VTF=10 ITF=0.01 CJC=6.15611e-10
+VJC=0.95 MJC=0.289483 XCJC=0.9 FC=0.5
+TR=1e-07 PTF=0 KF=0 AF=1
..MODEL q1model pnp
+IS=1.69855e-12 BF=221.401 NF=0.961395 VAF=133.261
+IKF=0.262058 ISE=2.84033e-12 NE=1.5434 BR=0.940867
+NR=1.07398 VAR=36.7145 IKR=0.0998515 ISC=1e-13
+NC=1.95857 RB=14.9267 IRB=0.158579 RBM=14.9267
+RE=0.125332 RC=0.62666 XTB=0.384111 XTI=2.95173 EG=1.05
+CJE=4.25427e-10 VJE=0.4 MJE=0.334318 TF=1e-09
+XTF=1 VTF=10 ITF=0.01 CJC=0
+VJC=0.95 MJC=0.289483 XCJC=0.9 FC=0.5
+TR=1e-07 PTF=0 KF=0 AF=1
..ENDS

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK

 

[Jim Thompson]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:42:55 +0100, Tony Williams
<tonyw@ledelec.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In article <7s4qn01dlcvrpb8cf5c80t7gmhnv63fbe7@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

A Darlington is really two transistors, so you use a subcircuit
to model it.

Ah yes, it has to be a subcircuit, not a model.
I didn't think of that.

Study beta versus current and the base-emitter resistors to
establish characteristics of each device.

I can do that ok, but my knowlege of Spice is so pitiful Jim
that I don't understand what most of the little acronyms mean.

If you can't directly find a model for a Darlington, try to determine
what transistor family it's from. Then use that device model as the
basic core and place into Terry's listing:

..SUBCKT 2Nxxxx 1 2 3
* Model format: PSpice
* Darlington macro model
* External node designations
* Node 1 -> Collect
* Node 2 -> Base
* Node 3 -> Emitter
Q1 1 2 4 qmodel 0.1 << vary Q1, Q2 areas to match
Q2 1 4 3 qmodel 1 << data sheet curve trace
D1 1 3 dmodel 1 << vary area of diode for reverse conditions
R1 2 4 8000 << from data sheet
R2 4 3 50 << from data sheet
*
..MODEL dmodel d (....
..MODEL qmodel pnp (....
..ENDS 2Nxxxx

Note that Q1 and Q2 would have the same model name, since the
diffusions are the same. Although there _could_ possibly be
difference in IKF between the two depending on the layout.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:49:48 +0100, Tony Williams <tonyw@ledelec.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

but how do I create a .model for it?

I'm glad to see that Terry posted a model for you.

And although you are talking about a Darlington and not a simple BJT, I'd like
to add that there's a book on the subject of BJTs that goes into great detail
about how to develop each of the model parameter values from physical
measurements that are achievable with generally available equipment. It
includes all of the theory to apprehend all this, as well. It's Ian Getreu's
"Modeling the Bipolar Transistor." It originally came out in 1976 and the 3rd
printing I have came out in 1979. I don't know of anything quite like it,
before or since. If anyone knows of a book that covers that subject as well
from a more modern perspective, I'd love to hear about it.

Jon

 

[Tony Williams]

In article <e67sn091cuv2tdvgcceje4r5hqhulpns35@4ax.com>,
Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@THESEdial.pipex.com> wrote:

Better, here's one I found with Google:

Thanks Terry. I also received a model via email
which is very similar. It doesn't look much of
a problem to edit the models into LTSpice syntax.

--
Tony Williams.

 

[Tony Williams]

In article <hcpsn0tn96cfvsiie8ic90scr0dd7rsft0@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

If you can't directly find a model for a Darlington, try to
determine what transistor family it's from. Then use that device
model as the basic core and place into Terry's listing:

Yes thanks. I've now got two example models to work from
so should be able to produce something reasonable.

--
Tony Williams.

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:23:51 GMT, Jonathan Kirwan
<jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote:

And although you are talking about a Darlington and not a simple BJT, I'd like
to add that there's a book on the subject of BJTs that goes into great detail
about how to develop each of the model parameter values from physical
measurements that are achievable with generally available equipment. It
includes all of the theory to apprehend all this, as well. It's Ian Getreu's
"Modeling the Bipolar Transistor." It originally came out in 1976 and the 3rd
printing I have came out in 1979. I don't know of anything quite like it,
before or since. If anyone knows of a book that covers that subject as well
from a more modern perspective, I'd love to hear about it.

How do you define "generally available equipment"? And does the text
show how to use this equipment to arrive at accurate values for even
the more obscure and esoteric spice parameters and package paractics?
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.

 

[Jonathan Kirwan]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:06:42 +0100, Paul Burridge <pb@notthisbit.osiris1.co.uk>
wrote:

How do you define "generally available equipment"? And does the text
show how to use this equipment to arrive at accurate values for even
the more obscure and esoteric spice parameters and package paractics?

Well, I've not gone entirely through that half of the manual (it is in two main
sections -- theory and then measurement of the theoretical parameters.) But the
experimental setups and the required measurements look to me mostly doable with
meters, power supplies, noise source, and an appropriate oscilloscope. For
example, in the case of r'b, he says:

"Traditionally, r'b has been a difficult parameter to measure, mainly because it
is modeled as a lumped constant resistance although it is actually a
distributed, variable resistance. As a result, the value obtained for r'b
depends strongly on the measurement technique used as well as the transistor's
operating conditions. Several measurement techniques are described here.

"Comparison of measurement techniques for r'b

"r'b should be determined by the method closest to the operating conditions
under study. If r'b is being measured to ascertain its effect on noise
performance, the 'noise measurement technique' should be used. Similarly, if
the transistor is to be used in a switching application, the 'pulse measurement'
technique may provide the most appropriate value. For small-signal analysis
four measurement techniques are described: the 'input impedance circle method,'
the 'phase-cancellation technique,' the 'two-port network method,' and the 'h-y
ratio technique.' A comparison of the advantages and disadvantages of these
four methods is given in Section (c), the small-signal measurement section."

And then he goes on to describe these and then many more techniques for each and
every other parameter of all the models up through the GP model parameters.

Jon

 

[Paul Burridge]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:01:56 GMT, Jonathan Kirwan
<jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote:

[snip]

Thanks, Jonathan. Sounds very interesting indeed. I've done a search
on E-bay but unfortunately it appears there are no copies available
for sale anywhere in the world. I shall just have to check back
regularly and hope!

p.
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.