Looking for MMI M2018 LCA data sheet...

[Zach Metzinger]

Hello,

I\'m a collector and tinkerer of old, archaic devices, and I recently
came across a MMI M2018-20CP (date code 81xx) in a PGA package.

I\'ve found the M2064 data sheet, but I can\'t seem to track down the
M2018 data sheet from MMI/AMD. I\'m also looking for the MMI XACT tools
of the same era that would support generating the data pattern (what we
might call a configuration bitstream these days) from RTL.

Any and all pointers are appreciated!

--- Zach
(replace the ask me with pobox, and the please with zmetzing)

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 12:50:45 PM UTC-4, Zach Metzinger wrote:

Hello,

I\'m a collector and tinkerer of old, archaic devices, and I recently
came across a MMI M2018-20CP (date code 81xx) in a PGA package.

I\'ve found the M2064 data sheet, but I can\'t seem to track down the
M2018 data sheet from MMI/AMD. I\'m also looking for the MMI XACT tools
of the same era that would support generating the data pattern (what we
might call a configuration bitstream these days) from RTL.

Any and all pointers are appreciated!

You can fix your sig so newsreaders automatically remove it in replies.

As to your problem, not so sure. I know who AMD is, but is MMI one of the CPLD makers? Did Xilinx buy MMI? XACT is a Xilinx trademark for their very ancient development software. I used to have copies, but gave them away to someone who said he would give it a good home. I don\'t think the dongle ever turned up, but they are easy to make (it was a down counter with a carry out after some number of pulses) and there are software cracks. If I find who that guy is I\'ll let him know someone in c.a.f is looking for him.

So is this what you are looking for, Xilinx software?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Zach Metzinger]

On 05/15/20 13:23, Rick C wrote:

> You can fix your sig so newsreaders automatically remove it in replies.

Not sure what you\'re referring to. I do that to avoid automatic scraping
of my email address.

> XACT is a Xilinx trademark for their very ancient development software. I used to have copies, but gave them away to someone who said he would give it a good home. I don\'t think the dongle ever turned up, but they are easy to make (it was a down counter with a carry out after some number of pulses) and there are software cracks. If I find who that guy is I\'ll let him know someone in c.a.f is looking for him.

I need XACT that supports the M2018, which Xilinx had a cross part for
(XC2018-xx). I can probably figure out the dongle situation with a debugger.

Before anyone says \"just use something recent\": This is for a
period-piece design, so modern wouldn\'t be appropriate. I\'ve got
hundreds of FPGAs and CPLDs, spanning many decades.

I doubt Xilinx will care much that I\'m asking for obsolete software.

I did find the data sheet from archive.org, buried in the MMI LCA
Applications Handbook, so I have a pinout now.

Also looks like I\'m about 19 years behind someone else on the quest:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.arch.fpga/1lPu9RgVN00

--- Zach

 

[Zach Metzinger]

On 05/15/20 13:39, Zach Metzinger wrote:

I need XACT that supports the M2018, which Xilinx had a cross part for
(XC2018-xx). I can probably figure out the dongle situation with a
debugger.

Nevermind! I seem to have solved this problem 4 years ago, and bit-rot
got those neurons.

--- Zach

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 2:39:32 PM UTC-4, Zach Metzinger wrote:

On 05/15/20 13:23, Rick C wrote:

You can fix your sig so newsreaders automatically remove it in replies.

Not sure what you\'re referring to. I do that to avoid automatic scraping
of my email address.

Not talking about that. BTW, I can\'t see what you\'ve entered as the fake email address through google groups, so no idea what I\'m altering.

I\'m talking about the dashes. If you start your sig with a line of two dashes and a space and nothing else, it is a flag to newsreaders of the start of a sig and it is automatically trimmed in a reply. Many people don\'t bother with that, but the polite ones do.

Mine is that way.

XACT is a Xilinx trademark for their very ancient development software.. I used to have copies, but gave them away to someone who said he would give it a good home. I don\'t think the dongle ever turned up, but they are easy to make (it was a down counter with a carry out after some number of pulses) and there are software cracks. If I find who that guy is I\'ll let him know someone in c.a.f is looking for him.

I need XACT that supports the M2018, which Xilinx had a cross part for
(XC2018-xx). I can probably figure out the dongle situation with a debugger.

Before anyone says \"just use something recent\": This is for a
period-piece design, so modern wouldn\'t be appropriate. I\'ve got
hundreds of FPGAs and CPLDs, spanning many decades.

I doubt Xilinx will care much that I\'m asking for obsolete software.

Not certain they still offer it, but at one time they still had a download of the \"classic\" software buried in a corner of the web site. You might find it if you nose around or maybe a google search XACT site:xilinx.com ???

I did find the data sheet from archive.org, buried in the MMI LCA
Applications Handbook, so I have a pinout now.

Also looks like I\'m about 19 years behind someone else on the quest:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.arch.fpga/1lPu9RgVN00

Wow! That\'s from 2001! The guy I gave my tools to was likely posting here, but it would have been in the last 10 years. I did a quick search and didn\'t find the email so I\'m doing a full search of all my email for the last 20 years. It will take a bit even on a modern computer.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 2:57:01 PM UTC-4, Zach Metzinger wrote:

On 05/15/20 13:39, Zach Metzinger wrote:

I need XACT that supports the M2018, which Xilinx had a cross part for
(XC2018-xx). I can probably figure out the dongle situation with a
debugger.

Nevermind! I seem to have solved this problem 4 years ago, and bit-rot
got those neurons.

--- Zach

Oh, how did you solve it?

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Zach Metzinger]

On 05/15/20 14:06, Rick C wrote:
> Oh, how did you solve it?

A friend of mine had this laying around (XACT 5.1), and I still have it
sitting in a box from him.

Hurrah!

--- Zach

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 4:15:41 PM UTC-4, Zach Metzinger wrote:

On 05/15/20 14:06, Rick C wrote:
Oh, how did you solve it?

A friend of mine had this laying around (XACT 5.1), and I still have it
sitting in a box from him.

Do you have the parallel port dongle? People have explained in very high level terms how to crack the software so you don\'t need the dongle. Since PCs don\'t have parallel ports anymore, that might be the best way to go anyhow.

Good luck,

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Theo]

Zach Metzinger <please@ask.me> wrote:

On 05/15/20 14:06, Rick C wrote:
Oh, how did you solve it?

A friend of mine had this laying around (XACT 5.1), and I still have it
sitting in a box from him.

Hmm, perhaps it would be a good idea to have an archive of old FPGA tools.

It could be worth submitting it to the Internet Archive (archive.org) - they
let you upload old software and documents. I assume they have some kind of
copyright waiver to allow them to do this.

They don\'t have a whole lot of FPGA tools at present, but they have some
nice Xilinx 5.25\" floppies...
https://archive.org/details/XilinxBorgDisks

Theo

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 5:51:43 PM UTC-4, Theo wrote:

Zach Metzinger <please@ask.me> wrote:
On 05/15/20 14:06, Rick C wrote:
Oh, how did you solve it?

A friend of mine had this laying around (XACT 5.1), and I still have it
sitting in a box from him.

Hmm, perhaps it would be a good idea to have an archive of old FPGA tools..

It could be worth submitting it to the Internet Archive (archive.org) - they
let you upload old software and documents. I assume they have some kind of
copyright waiver to allow them to do this.

They don\'t have a whole lot of FPGA tools at present, but they have some
nice Xilinx 5.25\" floppies...
https://archive.org/details/XilinxBorgDisks

Theo

Wow! I\'ve got a very popular schematic editor (and expensive) from that time frame (early 90\'s) sitting in my basement on 3.5\" floppies, 10 or 20 of them. I can\'t recall the name. I think it had \"view\" in the name, but not Labview, that was something very different. We used it for the FPGA designs before HDL. I still have this. Forgot all about it.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Zach Metzinger]

On 05/15/20 16:24, Rick C wrote:

> Do you have the parallel port dongle? People have explained in very high level terms how to crack the software so you don\'t need the dongle. Since PCs don\'t have parallel ports anymore, that might be the best way to go anyhow.

I don\'t have the dongle, but yes, there are ways around that.

DOSBox supports parallel ports, and I even submitted a patch so that
DOSBox under FreeBSD could get to /dev/ppi0. I needed this for both a
parallel-port EEPROM programmer and an EEPROM emulator.

http://praxibetel.org/toro/index.html

--- Zach

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 6:14:04 PM UTC-4, Zach Metzinger wrote:

On 05/15/20 16:24, Rick C wrote:

Do you have the parallel port dongle? People have explained in very high level terms how to crack the software so you don\'t need the dongle. Since PCs don\'t have parallel ports anymore, that might be the best way to go anyhow.

I don\'t have the dongle, but yes, there are ways around that.

DOSBox supports parallel ports, and I even submitted a patch so that
DOSBox under FreeBSD could get to /dev/ppi0. I needed this for both a
parallel-port EEPROM programmer and an EEPROM emulator.

http://praxibetel.org/toro/index.html

I\'ve found software that will redirect serial ports between programs and hardware ports so you can loop a program back to talk to another program. A dongle emulator program could replace the hardware port. But I think the software patch they talk about just mucks with the tool program to make it think the dongle is there without actually checking.

Good luck,

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[HT-Lab]

On 15/05/2020 23:05, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 5:51:43 PM UTC-4, Theo wrote:
Zach Metzinger <please@ask.me> wrote:
On 05/15/20 14:06, Rick C wrote:
Oh, how did you solve it?

A friend of mine had this laying around (XACT 5.1), and I still have it
sitting in a box from him.

Hmm, perhaps it would be a good idea to have an archive of old FPGA tools.

It could be worth submitting it to the Internet Archive (archive.org) - they
let you upload old software and documents. I assume they have some kind of
copyright waiver to allow them to do this.

They don\'t have a whole lot of FPGA tools at present, but they have some
nice Xilinx 5.25\" floppies...
https://archive.org/details/XilinxBorgDisks

Theo

Wow! I\'ve got a very popular schematic editor (and expensive) from that time frame (early 90\'s) sitting in my basement on 3.5\" floppies, 10 or 20 of them. I can\'t recall the name. I think it had \"view\" in the name, but not Labview, that was something very different. We used it for the FPGA designs before HDL. I still have this. Forgot all about it.

Probably Viewlogic, I also used it (ViewDraw under DOS3.3) to create
designs for Actels A1010 and A1020. When the Windows95 version finally
came out I switched to VHDL and Actmap (Asyl+) which was such an
improvement in productivity...

Hans.
www.ht-lab.com

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, May 16, 2020 at 3:20:50 AM UTC-4, HT-Lab wrote:

On 15/05/2020 23:05, Rick C wrote:
On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 5:51:43 PM UTC-4, Theo wrote:
Zach Metzinger <please@ask.me> wrote:
On 05/15/20 14:06, Rick C wrote:
Oh, how did you solve it?

A friend of mine had this laying around (XACT 5.1), and I still have it
sitting in a box from him.

Hmm, perhaps it would be a good idea to have an archive of old FPGA tools.

It could be worth submitting it to the Internet Archive (archive.org) - they
let you upload old software and documents. I assume they have some kind of
copyright waiver to allow them to do this.

They don\'t have a whole lot of FPGA tools at present, but they have some
nice Xilinx 5.25\" floppies...
https://archive.org/details/XilinxBorgDisks

Theo

Wow! I\'ve got a very popular schematic editor (and expensive) from that time frame (early 90\'s) sitting in my basement on 3.5\" floppies, 10 or 20 of them. I can\'t recall the name. I think it had \"view\" in the name, but not Labview, that was something very different. We used it for the FPGA designs before HDL. I still have this. Forgot all about it.

Probably Viewlogic, I also used it (ViewDraw under DOS3.3) to create
designs for Actels A1010 and A1020. When the Windows95 version finally
came out I switched to VHDL and Actmap (Asyl+) which was such an
improvement in productivity...

Hans.
www.ht-lab.com

Yes! Viewlogic! I don\'t recall hating the program but there was something about it that I took issue with. I was a schematic hold out. FPGAs were still small then. A guy who used to post here, Ray Andraka (if I have the spelling right) did very detailed hierarchical schematics with relative placement info passed down through the levels. He resisted VHDL because of the huge advantages this provided with optimization which was some huge part of his work and his success.

Then Xilinx showed him how to do the same hierarchical distribution of placement instructions and he never looked back.

I did think in terms of schematic more easily than text. But the nature of designs has just gotten so much more complex that schematic would be very hard to utilize. That was the theme Xilinx was pushing at the time but I didn\'t buy it. I never realized FPGAs would get so big.

--

Rick C.

--- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jecel]

Zach,

I\'ve found the M2064 data sheet, but I can\'t seem to track down the
M2018 data sheet from MMI/AMD. I\'m also looking for the MMI XACT tools
of the same era that would support generating the data pattern (what we
might call a configuration bitstream these days) from RTL.

I only used the very first version of XACT (back when it was 2064 only) and it didn\'t have RTL. You would point to a LUT on the screen and could either type a PALASM style equation (which I suppose is sort of RTLish) or toggle the 16 bits on and off individually. You would route by clicking along a path from one output to an input. The nice part about that is that it would show the delay so far in the cursor, so you could backtrack and try a different path if you were unhappy with how things were going.

I remember when Altera moved from PALASM to AHDL but only had contact with Xilinx again in the Verilog/VHDL era.

-- Jecel

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 16.05.20 um 02:08 schrieb Rick C:

On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 6:14:04 PM UTC-4, Zach Metzinger wrote:
On 05/15/20 16:24, Rick C wrote:

Do you have the parallel port dongle? People have explained in very high level terms how to crack the software so you don\'t need the dongle. Since PCs don\'t have parallel ports anymore, that might be the best way to go anyhow.

I don\'t have the dongle, but yes, there are ways around that.

DOSBox supports parallel ports, and I even submitted a patch so that
DOSBox under FreeBSD could get to /dev/ppi0. I needed this for both a
parallel-port EEPROM programmer and an EEPROM emulator.

http://praxibetel.org/toro/index.html

I\'ve found software that will redirect serial ports between programs and hardware ports so you can loop a program back to talk to another program. A dongle emulator program could replace the hardware port. But I think the software patch they talk about just mucks with the tool program to make it think the dongle is there without actually checking.

The dongle did toggle paper empty after some 245 clocks, the exact
number said if it was apr only or full product. I don\'t remember
if there was a simulator included. Maybe Viewlogic / futurenet.
I\'m pretty sure that I have passed that futurenet stuff to recycling.
But I had bought the Simucad Silos simulator and even built a
library for the 10K / 100K ECL stuff I was also doing at that time.

We had a lot of fake dongles and an entire stack of Compaq/286 that
all did apr overnight on the same problem, in the hope that at least
one of the routed solutions was usable.

We never liked Viewlogic and everybody I knew built pressure on
the FAEs to support DOS Orcad. Xilinx finally gave in
and provided libraries and a netlist converter.
We considered that a major breakthrough.

I think I still have a 2064 / 2018 eval board somewhere,
also some dongles, might be for later versions.
And maybe a par port programming cable.
There were frequent updates with boxes full of floppy disks.
I always had enough floppies.

Cheers, Gerhard