Logic Level Translator

Jim Thompson · Nov 1, 2005

There was a series of posts in the past few weeks concerning
translating a 3.3V logic level into 5V logic.

I have posted here...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/LogicLevelTranslator.pdf

the basic concepts, and also created a simulation mockup using the
venerable CD4007.

This structure consumes no static power other than leakage.

There is some "kinkiness" in the waveforms. I don't know if it's due
to the long channel-length of the CD4007 devices or the VERY poor
device models (Level=1 and Level=2 was all I could find).

I've done this trick quite successfully on custom chips where I could
scale the devices to suit my needs.

Maybe someone will construct this with a CD4007 and report back?

(Beware, wire exactly as shown... pin 14 must go to +5V to prevent
tub/body diode conduction.)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Joerg · Nov 1, 2005

Hello Jim,

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/LogicLevelTranslator.pdf

the basic concepts, and also created a simulation mockup using the
venerable CD4007.

But this consumes a good half of the chip for just one data line.

I've done this trick quite successfully on custom chips where I could
scale the devices to suit my needs.

There I could see it. You don't have to sacrifice another SO or TSSOP
package there.

Maybe someone will construct this with a CD4007 and report back?

I usually do it discrete. I'd try anyways but have to do some math right
now. Filter algorithms ... blech...

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Jim Thompson · Nov 1, 2005

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 20:01:05 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Hello Jim,

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/LogicLevelTranslator.pdf

the basic concepts, and also created a simulation mockup using the
venerable CD4007.

But this consumes a good half of the chip for just one data line.

It consumes the whole CD4007, since the associated N-channel devices
are tied off.

I've done this trick quite successfully on custom chips where I could
scale the devices to suit my needs.

There I could see it. You don't have to sacrifice another SO or TSSOP
package there.

I was just demonstrating the principle.

Maybe someone will construct this with a CD4007 and report back?

I usually do it discrete. I'd try anyways but have to do some math right
now. Filter algorithms ... blech...

Have fun ;-) (Analog or digital?)

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Joerg · Nov 1, 2005

Hello Jim,

I usually do it discrete. I'd try anyways but have to do some math right
now. Filter algorithms ... blech...

Have fun ;-) (Analog or digital?)

Digital this time which is why it's not that much fun. The real
disappointment came when I happily perused today's offerings of DSP and
found out that the ones with 16bit codecs on board have gone AWOL. So
now I'll have to figure out how to schlepp 14-15 rather unorthodox
single-bin DFTs through a uC or bite the bullet and use a TMS320 plus
external ADC. These DFTs can't all have the same sampling frequency
which makes it even less fun with an off-chip ADC. This is also why FFT
wouldn't work here. The other challenge in this project is that the
classical and expensive DSP books here on the shelf fall quite silent
when it comes to weird filters.

The good news is that the uC world has made much more progress than DSP
since I last used one. You can get 16 bitters with hardware multipliers
for under $5 a pop. And you don't have to spoon-feed them their code
from an EPROM anymore. Nice.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

John Fields · Nov 1, 2005

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 13:08:49 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

I was just demonstrating the principle.

---
Which was???

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

Jim Thompson · Nov 1, 2005

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 17:16:20 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 13:08:49 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

I was just demonstrating the principle.

---
Which was???

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jim Thompson · Nov 2, 2005

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:40:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

There was a series of posts in the past few weeks concerning
translating a 3.3V logic level into 5V logic.

I have posted here...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/LogicLevelTranslator.pdf

the basic concepts, and also created a simulation mockup using the
venerable CD4007.

This structure consumes no static power other than leakage.

There is some "kinkiness" in the waveforms. I don't know if it's due
to the long channel-length of the CD4007 devices or the VERY poor
device models (Level=1 and Level=2 was all I could find).

[snip]

The "kinkiness" comes from lack of gain in the feedback. Change
74HC04 to 74HC14 and it becomes letter perfect.

I'm still refining it, but you can also do a similar (more current
consumptive) trick using a single 74HC14 wrapped around with a PNP
current mirror. Consumes current rather than being zero at the end
states, but it's cheap on parts.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jim Thompson · Nov 2, 2005

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:40:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

There was a series of posts in the past few weeks concerning
translating a 3.3V logic level into 5V logic.

[snip]

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Jim Thompson · Nov 3, 2005

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:51:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:40:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

There was a series of posts in the past few weeks concerning
translating a 3.3V logic level into 5V logic.

[snip]

The latest version is here...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/LogicLevelTranslator74HC14.pdf

Much simpler, easily adjustable thresholds.

...Jim Thompson

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Robert · Nov 4, 2005

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:qsqim151bgnvkdamairapethru1md6aefi@4ax.com...

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:51:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:40:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

There was a series of posts in the past few weeks concerning
translating a 3.3V logic level into 5V logic.

[snip]

The latest version is here...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/LogicLevelTranslator74HC14.pdf

Much simpler, easily adjustable thresholds.

...Jim Thompson

Further improved at...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/LogicLevelTranslator74HC14-RevA.pdf

Thresholds centered up around 3.3V/2 and hysteresis narrowed.

QED ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Why can't you see this (and others you've posted) documents when I go to
http://www.analog-innovations.com and then select the SED link?

I prefer to download PDFs then open them rather than doing that in a
browser.

Robert

Jim Thompson · Nov 4, 2005

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:54:16 GMT, "Robert" <Robert@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:qsqim151bgnvkdamairapethru1md6aefi@4ax.com...
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:51:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:40:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

There was a series of posts in the past few weeks concerning
translating a 3.3V logic level into 5V logic.

[snip]

The latest version is here...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/LogicLevelTranslator74HC14.pdf

Much simpler, easily adjustable thresholds.

...Jim Thompson

Further improved at...

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/LogicLevelTranslator74HC14-RevA.pdf

Thresholds centered up around 3.3V/2 and hysteresis narrowed.

QED ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Why can't you see this (and others you've posted) documents when I go to
http://www.analog-innovations.com and then select the SED link?

I prefer to download PDFs then open them rather than doing that in a
browser.

Robert

I can link them into the SED cover page if you like. I tend to link
only circuits that should be of more universal interest.

Can't you set your browser to download rather than open? In Firefox
you can.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Rich, Under the Affluence · Nov 4, 2005

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 07:47:26 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:54:16 GMT, "Robert" <Robert@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:51:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:40:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
[notwithstanding replying to oneself - TWICE!]
There was a series of posts in the past few weeks concerning
translating a 3.3V logic level into 5V logic.
[snip]
The latest version is here...
Much simpler, easily adjustable th...the ones with the problem. Feh. Cheers! Rich

Stephen J. Rush · Nov 5, 2005

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 00:45:06 +0000, Rich, Under the Affluence wrote:

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 07:47:26 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 05:54:16 GMT, "Robert" <Robert@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 13:51:51 -0700, Jim Thompson
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 12:40:03 -0700, Jim Thompson
[notwithstanding replying to oneself - TWICE!]
There was a series of posts in the past few weeks concerning
translating a 3.3V logic level into 5V logic.
[snip]
The latest version is here...
Much simpler, easily adjustable th... screenshots have to appear on the same page.

John Woodgate · Nov 5, 2005

I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that "Rich, Under the
Affluence" <nevermind@example.net> wrote (in
<pan.2005.11.04.23.45.44.221160@example.net&gt

about 'Logic Level
Translator', on Sat, 5 Nov 2005:

But posting shit in PDF is arrogant and pompous. The "common man" can
read .gif, .jpg, and usually .png. But J is so stuck on himself and his
multi-million dollar-tools that he says, "Hey, I can afford the special
software that it takes to read my wisdom - howcome you're too lazy or
dark to bother to buy extra tools such that you can fawn at the feet of
my Infinite Wisdom?"

Rich, Acrobat Reader is, and always has been, free.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
If everything has been designed, a god designed evolution by natural selection.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Chuck Harris · Nov 5, 2005

John Woodgate wrote:

I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that "Rich, Under the
Affluence" <nevermind@example.net> wrote (in
pan.2005.11.04.23.45.44.221160@example.net&gt about 'Logic Level
Translator', on Sat, 5 Nov 2005:

But posting shit in PDF is arrogant and pompous. The "common man" can
read .gif, .jpg, and usually .png. But J is so stuck on himself and
his multi-million dollar-tools that he says, "Hey, I can afford the
special software that it takes to read my wisdom - howcome you're too
lazy or dark to bother to buy extra tools such that you can fawn at
the feet of my Infinite Wisdom?"

Rich, Acrobat Reader is, and always has been, free.

Taken a level further, Adobe Acrobat, works on Windoze, and Linux,
and is as John says, free.

But you can also get ghostview, which works under Windoze, linux,
and the unixes, free.

and xpdf, which works under linux, and the unixes, free.
and kpdf which works under linux, and the unixes, free.
and gpdf, which works under linux, and the unixes, free.

And since killing a dead horse is fun, you can author pdf's
using OpenOffice.org, which runs uner Windoze, linux, OSX, and
the unixes, and it is, free.

Seems to me, that the "rich folk" are the ones using the microslop
products. The whole rest of the world is using linux.

But not to worry, someday soon, the "rich folk" will be using linux
too!

-Chuck

Bob Monsen · Nov 5, 2005

On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 23:13:45 -0600, Stephen J. Rush wrote:

Most Linux distributions include apps that can display .pdf files. Even
if you still use Windows, you can download the Acrobat reader free from
Adobe's Web site. They make their money selling .pdf creation
software. Even if you are stuck with dialup access, you only have to
download that big file once.

While posting plain text in PDF is annoying, PDF does have its place; it's
nice for things like user manuals for graphics software, where text and
screenshots have to appear on the same page.

There is an acrobat reader 7.0 version for linux... Sadly, it has all the
same annoying flaws as the windows version..

FC4 has 'evince', which, while having a buggy display engine, is far
quicker, and displays lots of different types of documents as well.

---
Regards,
Bob Monsen

All things which can be known have number; for it is impossible for a thing
to be conceived or known without number.
- Philolaus (Pythagorean)

Bob Monsen · Nov 5, 2005

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 07:47:04 -0500, Chuck Harris wrote:

Hey chuck.

Seems to me, that the "rich folk" are the ones using the microslop
products. The whole rest of the world is using linux.

But not to worry, someday soon, the "rich folk" will be using linux
too!

Unfortunately, it isn't the 'rich/poor' dichotomy; it is the 'no time to
waste/lots of time to waste' dichotomy. Linux requires far more time
fiddling with things than windows. Downloading drivers, upgrading kernels,
getting samba and wireless to work properly, etc, etc, is time-free on
windows (if it works at all), whereas Linux demands an investment in
learning and time that many would consider prohibitive.

It is the same as mac vs dos back before windows. The folks who liked to
fiddle with their computers thought mac was a sissy OS, because it didn't
support all the tweak knobs they loved. The mac guys were generally into
doing other things with their time, and so thought the nerds were wasting
their time.

However, sadly, this time thing is often belied by some horrific problem
with windows, that requires DAYS to fix, if it is even fixable. So,
perhaps the time argument balances out, or the rich folks can afford to
simply hire somebody to do the windows grunt work.

As a guy who likes to fiddle with things, I enjoy Linux. However, I have
lots of time on my hands these days...

---
Regards,
Bob Monsen

All things which can be known have number; for it is impossible for a thing
to be conceived or known without number.
- Philolaus (Pythagorean)

Robert · Nov 5, 2005

[snip]

http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/LogicLevelTranslator74HC14-RevA.pdf

Thresholds centered up around 3.3V/2 and hysteresis narrowed.

QED ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Why can't you see this (and others you've posted) documents when I go to
http://www.analog-innovations.com and then select the SED link?

I prefer to download PDFs then open them rather than doing that in a
browser.

Robert

I can link them into the SED cover page if you like. I tend to link
only circuits that should be of more universal interest.

Can't you set your browser to download rather than open? In Firefox
you can.

...Jim Thompson

Thanks. Didn't know that was an option in Firefox. Set that way now.

Robert

Chuck Harris · Nov 5, 2005

Bob Monsen wrote:

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 07:47:04 -0500, Chuck Harris wrote:

Hey chuck.

Seems to me, that the "rich folk" are the ones using the microslop
products. The whole rest of the world is using linux.

But not to worry, someday soon, the "rich folk" will be using linux
too!

Unfortunately, it isn't the 'rich/poor' dichotomy; it is the 'no time to
waste/lots of time to waste' dichotomy. Linux requires far more time
fiddling with things than windows. Downloading drivers, upgrading kernels,
getting samba and wireless to work properly, etc, etc, is time-free on
windows (if it works at all), whereas Linux demands an investment in
learning and time that many would consider prohibitive.

Except that it doesn't. Most people couldn't run windoze if it didn't
come preconfigured on their new computer. There is absolutely no reason
that linux couldn't come that way too. I preconfigure linux systems for
family and friends, and they don't have any problems.

I got my mother running linux amd she doesn't know a damn thing about
computers. She has the OpenOffice.org suite for typing letters, XMMS to
play her CD's, Mozilla to handle the internet, and the card game suite
that comes on KDE. It does everything she used to do on windoze, ...
well almost everything: I haven't had to fix a thing on her machine
since I changed her off of 'doze. No more late night calls about the
machine not responding, or not being willing to shut off, or ...

The only time she goes back to 'doze is to run taxcut to do her taxes.
And then the complaints about the crashing come back!

Level the playing field Bob, give potential linux users the same
slack you give 'doze users... a preconfigured machine.

-Chuck

JeffM · Nov 6, 2005

Level the playing field Bob, give potential linux users
the same slack you give 'doze users... a preconfigured machine.
Chuck Harris

Here's one problem with that: Which distro?
http://www.google.com/search?q=Wal-Mart+Linspire
(Bottom-of-the-line hardware)
..
..
Another problem:
Non-M$-fanboyz don't like to feel like they're getting schnookered.

You can't even get a computer WITH NO OS
that's not more expensive than one with Windoze.
**Dell Offering "Open" PC**
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:t8_ekeO320YJ:hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/05/1240206%26from=rss+*-machines-that-do-not-come-with-Windows-*-*-priced-*-*-*-more-then-*-*-system-with-Windows+windows-*-worthless+*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-all-*-free-offers-*-*-*-*-*-*+*-*-same-system-with-*-hard-disk-twice-the-size-*-*-17-LCD-monitor-*-*-*-*-*-for-*-same-price

Can you say "Penfield"?
http://www.google.com/search?q=Penfield+Microsoft

Logic Level Translator

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