Lithium Ion - totally discharged

T

Terry Pinnell

Guest
My Sony Cybershot DSC-P1 digicam uses a rechargeable 'InfoLITHIUM'
battery. (FWIW, original was Sony NP-FS11, but at present it has a
replacement, PowerMart VSN017L28D.) I'd used it only a few days ago,
so was surprised last night to find it completely discharged. Not even
a display on the camera's LCD screen. I've now recharged it and will
see if its capacity is 'Full', as my camera claims.

Any ideas on why the discharge would apparently be so sudden and
complete please?

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@thesedial.pipex.com> wrote:
My Sony Cybershot DSC-P1 digicam uses a rechargeable 'InfoLITHIUM'
battery. (FWIW, original was Sony NP-FS11, but at present it has a
replacement, PowerMart VSN017L28D.) I'd used it only a few days ago,
so was surprised last night to find it completely discharged. Not even
a display on the camera's LCD screen. I've now recharged it and will
see if its capacity is 'Full', as my camera claims.

Any ideas on why the discharge would apparently be so sudden and
complete please?
Click to expand...
To increase Sonys profits?
 
"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:42bd4a2a$0$2037$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
Terry Pinnell <terrypinDELETE@thesedial.pipex.com> wrote:
My Sony Cybershot DSC-P1 digicam uses a rechargeable 'InfoLITHIUM'
battery. (FWIW, original was Sony NP-FS11, but at present it has a
replacement, PowerMart VSN017L28D.) I'd used it only a few days ago,
so was surprised last night to find it completely discharged. Not even
a display on the camera's LCD screen. I've now recharged it and will
see if its capacity is 'Full', as my camera claims.

Any ideas on why the discharge would apparently be so sudden and
complete please?

To increase Sonys profits?
Click to expand...
fualty camera or battery ?
My camera drains its battery too quickly , i dont often use it but when i go
to use it its always flat wich is anoying, i realy wish theyd put proper off
switches on things these days.

Colin =^.^=
 
Terry Pinnell wrote:

My Sony Cybershot DSC-P1 digicam uses a rechargeable 'InfoLITHIUM'
battery. (FWIW, original was Sony NP-FS11, but at present it has a
replacement, PowerMart VSN017L28D.) I'd used it only a few days ago,
so was surprised last night to find it completely discharged. Not even
a display on the camera's LCD screen. I've now recharged it and will
see if its capacity is 'Full', as my camera claims.

Any ideas on why the discharge would apparently be so sudden and
complete please?
Click to expand...
Infant failure mode ? Not unknown. It's probably totally unreliable.

Graham
 
Terry Pinnell wrote:

My Sony Cybershot DSC-P1 digicam uses a rechargeable 'InfoLITHIUM'
battery. (FWIW, original was Sony NP-FS11, but at present it has a
replacement, PowerMart VSN017L28D.) I'd used it only a few days ago,
so was surprised last night to find it completely discharged. Not even
a display on the camera's LCD screen. I've now recharged it and will
see if its capacity is 'Full', as my camera claims.

Any ideas on why the discharge would apparently be so sudden and
complete please?
Click to expand...
Hang on - you mean the original Sony battery went duff ?

I expect it's got tired of life. Rechargeable cells do nasty things on you
like that.

Graham
 
Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:

My Sony Cybershot DSC-P1 digicam uses a rechargeable 'InfoLITHIUM'
battery. (FWIW, original was Sony NP-FS11, but at present it has a
replacement, PowerMart VSN017L28D.) I'd used it only a few days ago,
so was surprised last night to find it completely discharged. Not even
a display on the camera's LCD screen. I've now recharged it and will
see if its capacity is 'Full', as my camera claims.

Any ideas on why the discharge would apparently be so sudden and
complete please?

Hang on - you mean the original Sony battery went duff ?

I expect it's got tired of life. Rechargeable cells do nasty things on you
like that.

Graham
Click to expand...
The original Sony battery gave me some trouble of a similar nature
(but not so extreme) about a year ago, 2-3 years since buying the
camera. I changed it to this 'equivalent', so that is now about a year
old.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
"PeteS" <ps@fleetwoodmobile.com> wrote:

Terry Pinnell wrote:
My Sony Cybershot DSC-P1 digicam uses a rechargeable 'InfoLITHIUM'
battery. (FWIW, original was Sony NP-FS11, but at present it has a
replacement, PowerMart VSN017L28D.) I'd used it only a few days ago,
so was surprised last night to find it completely discharged. Not even
a display on the camera's LCD screen. I've now recharged it and will
see if its capacity is 'Full', as my camera claims.

Any ideas on why the discharge would apparently be so sudden and
complete please?

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK

The battery is a 3.6V 1.1Ah (nominal) device. Li+ batteries are
considered discharged at 3V per cell. V(max) during charge is 4.2V,
incidentally.

To test it, discharge through a dummy load from fully charged at the C
rate (1.1A) until it reaches 3V - that should, quite reasonably, take
an hour. You can discharge more slowly if you wish, especially if you
know the load characteristics of your camera. Note that the usual
discharge characteristics for Li+ are <=2C (so that nattery should not
have a load exceeding 2.2A at any time) or they get damaged internally.

A simple current sink is all you need.

I've had to do this with a number of different battery types over
various jobs and tasks - this is the one test that proves whether it's
holding a charge.

Cheers

PeteS
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'll try that tomorrow.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
Terry Pinnell wrote:
My Sony Cybershot DSC-P1 digicam uses a rechargeable 'InfoLITHIUM'
battery. (FWIW, original was Sony NP-FS11, but at present it has a
replacement, PowerMart VSN017L28D.) I'd used it only a few days ago,
so was surprised last night to find it completely discharged. Not even
a display on the camera's LCD screen. I've now recharged it and will
see if its capacity is 'Full', as my camera claims.

Any ideas on why the discharge would apparently be so sudden and
complete please?
Click to expand...
I have a Nikon 3100. It took it several cycles to 'learn' about the
batteries I was using. Before that, it kept claiming they were dead
when they were not.


--
Luhan Monat: luhanis(at)yahoo(dot)com
http://members.cox.net/berniekm
"Any sufficiently advanced magick is
indistinguishable from technology."
 
Terry Pinnell wrote:

Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:


Terry Pinnell wrote:

My Sony Cybershot DSC-P1 digicam uses a rechargeable 'InfoLITHIUM'
battery. (FWIW, original was Sony NP-FS11, but at present it has a
replacement, PowerMart VSN017L28D.) I'd used it only a few days ago,
so was surprised last night to find it completely discharged. Not even
a display on the camera's LCD screen. I've now recharged it and will
see if its capacity is 'Full', as my camera claims.

Any ideas on why the discharge would apparently be so sudden and
complete please?

Hang on - you mean the original Sony battery went duff ?

I expect it's got tired of life. Rechargeable cells do nasty things on you
like that.

Graham

The original Sony battery gave me some trouble of a similar nature
(but not so extreme) about a year ago, 2-3 years since buying the
camera. I changed it to this 'equivalent', so that is now about a year
old.
Click to expand...
Ahhh, Ok.

I do believe they can die suddenly like that though. You're absolutely sure it
was previously *fully* re-charged ?

Graham
 
PeteS <ps@fleetwoodmobile.com> wrote:
I use Li+ batteries in some products, and one thing to watch out for is
severe over-discharge. If you do that, it's sometimes possible to
revive the battery (well, ~80% capacity anyway) by charge cycling a few
times (I have found if it doesn't recover after 3 cycles, it's gone).
Severe over discharge happens for LI+ at about 2.3V per cell, although
that varies by manufacturer. Li-polymer is slightly different - they
get severe over discharge at more like 2.5V per cell.
Click to expand...
I've recovered a sony Li-ion camera battery from 10mV cell voltage, in
which state it had been left for at least a couple of months.
Charging at 1mA showed a smooth rise from 10mV to 4.2V.
Capacity is at least 50% of original (based on number of pictures able
to be taken - which could be optimistic at the manufacturers end).
Charge retention is 2-3 months (in the camera, being drained)
 
Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote:

PeteS <ps@fleetwoodmobile.com> wrote:
I use Li+ batteries in some products, and one thing to watch out for is
severe over-discharge. If you do that, it's sometimes possible to
revive the battery (well, ~80% capacity anyway) by charge cycling a few
times (I have found if it doesn't recover after 3 cycles, it's gone).
Severe over discharge happens for LI+ at about 2.3V per cell, although
that varies by manufacturer. Li-polymer is slightly different - they
get severe over discharge at more like 2.5V per cell.

I've recovered a sony Li-ion camera battery from 10mV cell voltage, in
which state it had been left for at least a couple of months.
Charging at 1mA showed a smooth rise from 10mV to 4.2V.
Capacity is at least 50% of original (based on number of pictures able
to be taken - which could be optimistic at the manufacturers end).
Charge retention is 2-3 months (in the camera, being drained)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the further input. The battery appears to have recharged
OK, although suspiciously quickly to its 'FULL' level. I'll check it
regularly over next week or two.

--
Terry Pinnell
Hobbyist, West Sussex, UK
 
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