Lithium Ion standard batteries

[Damian]

Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html

 

[Damian]

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld0kb9$s59$1@dont-email.me...

Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html

Found this, but ridiculously expensive.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4-pcs-lot-1-5V-AA-2800mAh-Lithium-ion-polymer-Rechargeble-Battery-Powerful-and-stable-voltage/314368_1113756150.html

 

[Damian]

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld0kb9$s59$1@dont-email.me...

Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html

And look at this, they are finally here.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lithiumax-Car-or-Boat-Battery-550CCA-Lithium-Ultra-Light-Compact-LifePo4-/231151346854

 

[Adrian Jansen]

On 7/2/2014 4:58 AM, Damian wrote:

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld0kb9$s59$1@dont-email.me...
Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html




And look at this, they are finally here.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lithiumax-Car-or-Boat-Battery-550CCA-Lithium-Ultra-Light-Compact-LifePo4-/231151346854

Dont leave your lights or Doof-Doof music on too long after stopping !
"Equivalent Pb 36 AH rating" will not last long. Good for starting, but
not much else.

Also I would query the life - 5-10 years for a product new on the market
sometime last year - how do they know ? Yes I know LiPo has been around
for a while, but not in this configuration.

I assume its got a DC-DC converter to hold the voltage up under full
starter load, as well as control the charging. Some good engineering
needed there.

Its also about 3x the price of a standard car starter battery.


--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net
Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form.

 

[Adrian Jansen]

On 7/2/2014 4:53 AM, Damian wrote:

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld0kb9$s59$1@dont-email.me...
Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html




Found this, but ridiculously expensive.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4-pcs-lot-1-5V-AA-2800mAh-Lithium-ion-polymer-Rechargeble-Battery-Powerful-and-stable-voltage/314368_1113756150.html

Interesting, but read the specs carefully. The battery casing, and the
spec, shows capacity quoted as 2800 mWh at 1.5 volts. Thats actually
only 1870 mAh.

Mind you, mWh is actually a more useful unit, since it measures the
total energy, rather than the current * time. On that basis, a typical
2500 mAh NiMH battery has an energy capacity of 3000 mWh, assuming it
delivers 1.2 volts over the full discharge ( not quite true, but close ).

I assume its in fact a 'normal' 3.7 volt lithium cell internally, with a
buck converter holding the output voltage at 1.5 volts - neat.
Certainly good for cameras, which often cut off at around 1.2 volts,
leaving an NiMH cell still well charged.

But bear in mind you appear to need the standard LiIo charger, with
current limiting and precision cutoff at 4.2 volts, rather than a
bog-standard NiMH charger.

Certainly the ability to hold 1.5 volts over the full discharge, and the
long shelf life, make it attractive, even at the price. If you really
get 1000 charge cycles, thats even better, since NiMH is more typically
500.

In thinking a bit more about that, I wonder... My understanding is that
LiIon gets best life when cycled between 95% and about 50% capacity.
Discharging further than 50% rapidly reduces the cycle life. But
because this battery holds up the voltage right to the end of discharge,
you are likely to use it right to the end, and hence discharge it well
below its 50% point.

Reference
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

for more discussion.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net
Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form.

 

[Damian]

"Adrian Jansen" <adrian@qq.vv.net> wrote in message
news:52f41e59$0$2860$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com...

On 7/2/2014 4:53 AM, Damian wrote:
"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld0kb9$s59$1@dont-email.me...
Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html




Found this, but ridiculously expensive.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4-pcs-lot-1-5V-AA-2800mAh-Lithium-ion-polymer-Rechargeble-Battery-Powerful-and-stable-voltage/314368_1113756150.html



Interesting, but read the specs carefully. The battery casing, and the
spec, shows capacity quoted as 2800 mWh at 1.5 volts. Thats actually only
1870 mAh.

Yes, and the silly price tag.

Mind you, mWh is actually a more useful unit, since it measures the total
energy, rather than the current * time. On that basis, a typical 2500 mAh
NiMH battery has an energy capacity of 3000 mWh, assuming it delivers 1.2
volts over the full discharge ( not quite true, but close ).

I assume its in fact a 'normal' 3.7 volt lithium cell internally, with a
buck converter holding the output voltage at 1.5 volts - neat.

What the technical difficulty behind producing a plain 1.5V Lithium Ion
cell?
Why does it has to be 3.7V with a buck converter?

Certainly good for cameras, which often cut off at around 1.2 volts,
leaving an NiMH cell still well charged.

That's the reason I need them for. But, way way too expensive.
They have 3.7 V AA batteries, dirt cheap on ebay.
But, without a voltage regulator built in, it would cook the camera.

But bear in mind you appear to need the standard LiIo charger, with
current limiting and precision cutoff at 4.2 volts, rather than a
bog-standard NiMH charger.

Yes. Having AA, AAA Li-Ion battery means, investing in a suitable charger as
well.

Certainly the ability to hold 1.5 volts over the full discharge, and the
long shelf life, make it attractive, even at the price. If you really get
1000 charge cycles, thats even better, since NiMH is more typically 500.

Nope. Look at the price tag.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-pcs-lot-1-5V-AA-2800mAh-Lithium-ion-polymer-Rechargeble-Battery-General-purpose-for-Camera/1113454194.html
And it's from China. May not be as good as the Japanese one below, but no
price tag on Japanese ones.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html
They appear to be different sort of technology. Some sort of water adding
green tech battery.
I bet the Japanese ones are far more expensive than the Chinese ones.

It's horrendous. NiMH is far cheaper to have,
Can buy a huge bunch of NiMH with a charger(s) for the price they're asking
for those AA, AAA 1.5 Li-Ion batteries.

I wouldn't worry about batteries lasting 20 years. We lose them long before
that.

In thinking a bit more about that, I wonder... My understanding is that
LiIon gets best life when cycled between 95% and about 50% capacity.

Yes.

> Discharging further than 50% rapidly reduces the cycle life.

Stuffs them up indeed.

But because this battery holds up the voltage right to the end of
discharge, you are likely to use it right to the end, and hence discharge
it well below its 50% point.

The device you use them for, suppose to control that.(Camera, etc), hence
minimizing the over discharge damage.
But, a something like a simple torch won't do that and will reduce the
lifespan of these Li-Ion AA 1.5 V batteries.
Besides economically it doesn't make any sense to spend this much money on
these batteries to use them, just for a
torch.

Reference
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

for more discussion.

Yep. I refer to that website all the time.
The name of the website if no exaggeration.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net
Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form.

I don't have a converter machine. ;-)
Thanks Adrian.

 

[news13]

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 22:27:28 +1100, Damian wrote:

According my calculations, if I use super cap+LiIon combination, it's
still cheaper than buying traditional Lead acid battery(I need around
650 CCA for my car).

Until you add in the charger to evenly charge each cell inthe stack.

My only concern is the number of discharge cycles of LiIon battery
packs.

then there is that. Lead acid is still in there $$$$ wise.

 

[Damian]

"Adrian Jansen" <adrian@qq.vv.net> wrote in message
news:52f413e8$0$2850$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com...

On 7/2/2014 4:58 AM, Damian wrote:
"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld0kb9$s59$1@dont-email.me...
Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html




And look at this, they are finally here.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lithiumax-Car-or-Boat-Battery-550CCA-Lithium-Ultra-Light-Compact-LifePo4-/231151346854


Dont leave your lights or Doof-Doof music on too long after stopping !
"Equivalent Pb 36 AH rating" will not last long. Good for starting, but
not much else.

Also I would query the life - 5-10 years for a product new on the market
sometime last year - how do they know ?

I wouldn't worry about these new batteries without minimum of 3 year
warranty with
a choice to extend it. Price should drop within few years, though.

Also need to take into account, that it's explosive capability will be way
beyond lead acid batteries, in which the biggest problem is
the acid splatter and injury by that.
But, Lithium technology is another thing.
There would be huge difference a mobile phone lithium iron battery exploding
and these automotive one exploding.

Yes I know LiPo has been around for a while, but not in this
configuration.

I assume its got a DC-DC converter to hold the voltage up under full
starter load,

I didn't quite understand it. Why does it need DC-DC converter?

Did you mean DC-DC smart charger?
Most of the new cars come with that sort of smart charging electronics.
It certainly extend the battery life, but I didn't think it is compulsory.
Is it, for these type of LiPO4 batteries?!

>as well as control the charging. Some good engineering needed there.

Why is it different from the electrics between traditional alternator and
lead acid battery?

There are DC-DC chargers available to smart charge the lead acid batteries,
which is around
$200 mark. C-Tek does a good one. lead acid batteries do benefit from them,
specially where there's a
dual battery system.
But, I'm wondering why these batteries may be unsuitable for traditional
alternator setup.
Obviously you understand the electronics behind it lto better.

Its also about 3x the price of a standard car starter battery.

Yeah, it's way too expensive. But, I reckon it will drop in time.
I reckon automotive lead acide batteries will be history in time to come.
Although the 2000+ discharge cycle statistic worries me a little bit.
Nobody defines a 'discharge cycle' properly.

 

[Damian]

"Adrian Jansen" <adrian@qq.vv.net> wrote in message
news:52f413e8$0$2850$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com...

On 7/2/2014 4:58 AM, Damian wrote:
"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld0kb9$s59$1@dont-email.me...
Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html




And look at this, they are finally here.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lithiumax-Car-or-Boat-Battery-550CCA-Lithium-Ultra-Light-Compact-LifePo4-/231151346854


Dont leave your lights or Doof-Doof music on too long after stopping !
"Equivalent Pb 36 AH rating" will not last long. Good for starting, but
not much else.

I won't be buying it. )
Too bloody expensive. And yes, 36AH ain't much.

My idea is to combine a super cap unit with Lithium Ion home made battery
pack or LiPO4 battery pack(if I can find LiPO4 battery cells cheaper),
then retire the lead acid battery as the main battery, but rather keep it at
the back of the car as a backup+jump starter, in case.
According my calculations, if I use super cap+LiIon combination, it's still
cheaper than buying traditional Lead acid battery(I need around
650 CCA for my car).
My only concern is the number of discharge cycles of LiIon battery packs.
Super caps will do fine, I believe.
I'm hoping to use dirt cheap 18650 cells to make up a Li-Ion 12-15V
battery.
At the price below, I'm hoping to get it done dirt cheap.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271262704378?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Only problem is, that I don't know whether these dirt cheap 18650's are any
good.
mAh rating of these batteries is definitely bull. In reality, it may be more
like 3000mAh.

My other concern is 'fire or explosive hazard' of these LiIon cells.
And I need to do some homework on how good they will be on handling the
under the bonnet heat.

 

[Damian]

"news13" <newsthirteenspam-spam@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld2has$ja5$9@dont-email.me...

On Fri, 07 Feb 2014 22:27:28 +1100, Damian wrote:


According my calculations, if I use super cap+LiIon combination, it's
still cheaper than buying traditional Lead acid battery(I need around
650 CCA for my car).

Until you add in the charger to evenly charge each cell inthe stack.

True. But, that would blow my budget to incorporate an intelligent circuit
to manage/balalnce the charge of the Li-Ion cells.
and traditional super heavy duty lead acid battery may be cheaper.
I'm stil gonna do it, 'cos at $2 a cell, those 18650's are pretty cheap.
Do you know a way to build a balancing/managing circuit cheaply.
Do you have any blue prints?!
Commercial ones are way way too expensive for an experiment like mine.
Thanks

My only concern is the number of discharge cycles of LiIon battery
packs.

then there is that. Lead acid is still in there $$$$ wise.

Yep. It's wise to have a one ready, in case my experiment go kaput.

 

[Rod Speed]

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld1hm8$1hq$1@dont-email.me...

"Adrian Jansen" <adrian@qq.vv.net> wrote in message
news:52f41e59$0$2860$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com...
On 7/2/2014 4:53 AM, Damian wrote:
"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld0kb9$s59$1@dont-email.me...
Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can
be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html




Found this, but ridiculously expensive.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4-pcs-lot-1-5V-AA-2800mAh-Lithium-ion-polymer-Rechargeble-Battery-Powerful-and-stable-voltage/314368_1113756150.html



Interesting, but read the specs carefully. The battery casing, and the
spec, shows capacity quoted as 2800 mWh at 1.5 volts. Thats actually
only 1870 mAh.

Yes, and the silly price tag.


Mind you, mWh is actually a more useful unit, since it measures the total
energy, rather than the current * time. On that basis, a typical 2500
mAh NiMH battery has an energy capacity of 3000 mWh, assuming it delivers
1.2 volts over the full discharge ( not quite true, but close ).

I assume its in fact a 'normal' 3.7 volt lithium cell internally, with a
buck converter holding the output voltage at 1.5 volts - neat.

What the technical difficulty behind producing a plain 1.5V Lithium Ion
cell?

The cell produces 3.7V

> Why does it has to be 3.7V with a buck converter?

Because the cell produces 3.7V

Certainly good for cameras, which often cut off at around 1.2 volts,
leaving an NiMH cell still well charged.

That's the reason I need them for. But, way way too expensive.
They have 3.7 V AA batteries, dirt cheap on ebay.
But, without a voltage regulator built in, it would cook the camera.

But bear in mind you appear to need the standard LiIo charger, with
current limiting and precision cutoff at 4.2 volts, rather than a
bog-standard NiMH charger.

Yes. Having AA, AAA Li-Ion battery means, investing in a suitable charger
as well.


Certainly the ability to hold 1.5 volts over the full discharge, and the
long shelf life, make it attractive, even at the price. If you really
get 1000 charge cycles, thats even better, since NiMH is more typically
500.

Nope. Look at the price tag.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-pcs-lot-1-5V-AA-2800mAh-Lithium-ion-polymer-Rechargeble-Battery-General-purpose-for-Camera/1113454194.html
And it's from China. May not be as good as the Japanese one below, but no
price tag on Japanese ones.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html
They appear to be different sort of technology. Some sort of water adding
green tech battery.
I bet the Japanese ones are far more expensive than the Chinese ones.

It's horrendous. NiMH is far cheaper to have,
Can buy a huge bunch of NiMH with a charger(s) for the price they're
asking
for those AA, AAA 1.5 Li-Ion batteries.

I wouldn't worry about batteries lasting 20 years. We lose them long
before that.


In thinking a bit more about that, I wonder... My understanding is that
LiIon gets best life when cycled between 95% and about 50% capacity.

Yes.

Discharging further than 50% rapidly reduces the cycle life.

Stuffs them up indeed.

But because this battery holds up the voltage right to the end of
discharge, you are likely to use it right to the end, and hence discharge
it well below its 50% point.

The device you use them for, suppose to control that.(Camera, etc), hence
minimizing the over discharge damage.
But, a something like a simple torch won't do that and will reduce the
lifespan of these Li-Ion AA 1.5 V batteries.
Besides economically it doesn't make any sense to spend this much money on
these batteries to use them, just for a
torch.


Reference
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

for more discussion.

Yep. I refer to that website all the time.
The name of the website if no exaggeration.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2014-02-08, Damian <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:bllhhcFcrbfU1@mid.individual.net...

"Damian"


I assume its in fact a 'normal' 3.7 volt lithium cell internally, with a
buck converter holding the output voltage at 1.5 volts - neat.

What the technical difficulty behind producing a plain 1.5V Lithium Ion
cell?
Why does it has to be 3.7V with a buck converter?


** Wot a staggeringly stupid question.

Ever see a 1.5V NiCd, NiMH or SLA cell ?

I see heaps of 1.5 NiCD, NiMH Batteries.

look closer. the fine print says 1.2V (or sometimes 1.25V)

see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrochemical_cell
especially:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrochemical_cell#cell potential
also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel-metal_hydride_battery


--
For a good time: install ntp

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Phil Allison]

"Damian the Dickhead"

I assume its in fact a 'normal' 3.7 volt lithium cell internally, with
a buck converter holding the output voltage at 1.5 volts - neat.

What the technical difficulty behind producing a plain 1.5V Lithium Ion
cell?
Why does it has to be 3.7V with a buck converter?


** Wot a staggeringly stupid question.

Ever see a 1.5V NiCd, NiMH or SLA cell ?

I see heaps of 1.5 NiCD, NiMH Batteries.

** You are a damn liar.

No ?

I don't care about seeing a cell.

** I don't care if you live or die - fuckhead.

Wonder why ?

All the time.
Why don't you enlighten me?

** Not my job - fuckhead.

Hint: Cells are not electronic components.

Couldnt get that hint.
Would you care to elaborate?

** ROTFL !!



..... Phil

Thanks

 

[Phil Allison]

"Damian"

"Rod Speed"

I assume its in fact a 'normal' 3.7 volt lithium cell internally, with
a buck converter holding the output voltage at 1.5 volts - neat.

What the technical difficulty behind producing a plain 1.5V Lithium Ion
cell?

The cell produces 3.7V

That's great Rod. You're telling me what I already know.


Why does it has to be 3.7V with a buck converter?

Because the cell produces 3.7V

What can't it produce 1.2 - 1.5V?

Like this,

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151224921170

** ROTFL !!!

The fool has linked a " Lithium Iron Disulphide " cell - a non
rechargeable chemistry same as Energizer "Lithium" cells.

There are a whole bunch of Lithium based cells that are non rechargeable:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery

The common rechargeable ones are "Lithium Ion" and " Lithium Ion Polymer".

FYI:

The internal electro-chemistry sets the terminal voltage.

And " ye canne change the laws of chemistry " too.



..... Phil

 

[Adrian Jansen]

On 7/2/2014 12:50 PM, Damian wrote:

What the technical difficulty behind producing a plain 1.5V Lithium Ion
cell?
Why does it has to be 3.7V with a buck converter?

Battery chemistry determines the cell voltage. If you specify LiIon,
then the voltage is 3.7 or so. Nothing you can do to alter that, apart
from add electronics.

The 'normal' 1.5 volt Lithium cells are a completely different
chemistry, giving long shelf life, and high capacity, but they are NOT
rechargeable.

Certainly the ability to hold 1.5 volts over the full discharge, and the
long shelf life, make it attractive, even at the price. If you really get
1000 charge cycles, thats even better, since NiMH is more typically 500.

Nope. Look at the price tag.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-pcs-lot-1-5V-AA-2800mAh-Lithium-ion-polymer-Rechargeble-Battery-General-purpose-for-Camera/1113454194.html

So thats about AU$12.00 each.
Good NiMH batteries like Eneloop or similar are around $5-8 each,
depending on where you get them. At around twice the cycle life, the
LiIon ones are still a reasonable deal.
My experience with cheap NiMH is that they have very short cycle lives,
as well as bad self discharge.

And it's from China. May not be as good as the Japanese one below, but no
price tag on Japanese ones.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html
They appear to be different sort of technology. Some sort of water adding
green tech battery.

I really doubt those are rechargeable. Yes you can get more energy out
by adding more water, but it sounds more like a primary cell to me.
Useful in an emergency though.



--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net
Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form.

 

[Damian]

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:bllhhcFcrbfU1@mid.individual.net...

"Damian"


I assume its in fact a 'normal' 3.7 volt lithium cell internally, with a
buck converter holding the output voltage at 1.5 volts - neat.

What the technical difficulty behind producing a plain 1.5V Lithium Ion
cell?
Why does it has to be 3.7V with a buck converter?


** Wot a staggeringly stupid question.

Ever see a 1.5V NiCd, NiMH or SLA cell ?

I see heaps of 1.5 NiCD, NiMH Batteries.

No ?

I don't care about seeing a cell.
Just need batteries, and if the battery happens to be a single cell, I'm
happy with that.

>Wonder why ?

All the time.
Why don't you enlighten me?

Hint: Cells are not electronic components.

Couldnt get that hint.
Would you care to elaborate?
Thanks

 

[Damian]

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
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"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld1hm8$1hq$1@dont-email.me...

"Adrian Jansen" <adrian@qq.vv.net> wrote in message
news:52f41e59$0$2860$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com...
On 7/2/2014 4:53 AM, Damian wrote:
"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld0kb9$s59$1@dont-email.me...
Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and
other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can
be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html




Found this, but ridiculously expensive.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4-pcs-lot-1-5V-AA-2800mAh-Lithium-ion-polymer-Rechargeble-Battery-Powerful-and-stable-voltage/314368_1113756150.html



Interesting, but read the specs carefully. The battery casing, and the
spec, shows capacity quoted as 2800 mWh at 1.5 volts. Thats actually
only 1870 mAh.

Yes, and the silly price tag.


Mind you, mWh is actually a more useful unit, since it measures the
total energy, rather than the current * time. On that basis, a typical
2500 mAh NiMH battery has an energy capacity of 3000 mWh, assuming it
delivers 1.2 volts over the full discharge ( not quite true, but
close ).

I assume its in fact a 'normal' 3.7 volt lithium cell internally, with a
buck converter holding the output voltage at 1.5 volts - neat.

What the technical difficulty behind producing a plain 1.5V Lithium Ion
cell?

The cell produces 3.7V

That's great Rod. You're telling me what I already know.

Why does it has to be 3.7V with a buck converter?

Because the cell produces 3.7V

What can't it produce 1.2 - 1.5V?

Like this,

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=151224921170

Certainly good for cameras, which often cut off at around 1.2 volts,
leaving an NiMH cell still well charged.

That's the reason I need them for. But, way way too expensive.
They have 3.7 V AA batteries, dirt cheap on ebay.
But, without a voltage regulator built in, it would cook the camera.

But bear in mind you appear to need the standard LiIo charger, with
current limiting and precision cutoff at 4.2 volts, rather than a
bog-standard NiMH charger.

Yes. Having AA, AAA Li-Ion battery means, investing in a suitable charger
as well.


Certainly the ability to hold 1.5 volts over the full discharge, and the
long shelf life, make it attractive, even at the price. If you really
get 1000 charge cycles, thats even better, since NiMH is more typically
500.

Nope. Look at the price tag.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2-pcs-lot-1-5V-AA-2800mAh-Lithium-ion-polymer-Rechargeble-Battery-General-purpose-for-Camera/1113454194.html
And it's from China. May not be as good as the Japanese one below, but no
price tag on Japanese ones.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html
They appear to be different sort of technology. Some sort of water adding
green tech battery.
I bet the Japanese ones are far more expensive than the Chinese ones.

It's horrendous. NiMH is far cheaper to have,
Can buy a huge bunch of NiMH with a charger(s) for the price they're
asking
for those AA, AAA 1.5 Li-Ion batteries.

I wouldn't worry about batteries lasting 20 years. We lose them long
before that.


In thinking a bit more about that, I wonder... My understanding is that
LiIon gets best life when cycled between 95% and about 50% capacity.

Yes.

Discharging further than 50% rapidly reduces the cycle life.

Stuffs them up indeed.

But because this battery holds up the voltage right to the end of
discharge, you are likely to use it right to the end, and hence
discharge it well below its 50% point.

The device you use them for, suppose to control that.(Camera, etc), hence
minimizing the over discharge damage.
But, a something like a simple torch won't do that and will reduce the
lifespan of these Li-Ion AA 1.5 V batteries.
Besides economically it doesn't make any sense to spend this much money
on these batteries to use them, just for a
torch.


Reference
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

for more discussion.

Yep. I refer to that website all the time.
The name of the website if no exaggeration.

 

[Adrian Jansen]

On 7/2/2014 4:53 AM, Damian wrote:

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld0kb9$s59$1@dont-email.me...
Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html




Found this, but ridiculously expensive.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/4-pcs-lot-1-5V-AA-2800mAh-Lithium-ion-polymer-Rechargeble-Battery-Powerful-and-stable-voltage/314368_1113756150.html

Interesting, but read the specs carefully. The battery casing, and the
spec, shows capacity quoted as 2800 mWh at 1.5 volts. Thats actually
only 1870 mAh.

Mind you, mWh is actually a more useful unit, since it measures the
total energy, rather than the current * time. On that basis, a typical
2500 mAh NiMH battery has an energy capacity of 3000 mWh, assuming it
delivers 1.2 volts over the full discharge ( not quite true, but close ).

I assume its in fact a 'normal' 3.7 volt lithium cell internally, with a
buck converter holding the output voltage at 1.5 volts - neat. Certainly
good for cameras, which often cut off at around 1.2 volts, leaving an
NiMH cell still well charged.

But bear in mind you appear to need the standard LiIo charger, with
current limiting and precision cutoff at 4.2 volts, rather than a
bog-standard NiMH charger.

Certainly the ability to hold 1.5 volts over the full discharge, and the
long shelf life, make it attractive, even at the price. If you really
get 1000 charge cycles, thats even better, since NiMH is more typically 500.

In thinking a bit more about that, I wonder... My understanding is that
LiIon gets best life when cycled between 95% and about 50% capacity.
Discharging further than 50% rapidly reduces the cycle life. But
because this battery holds up the voltage right to the end of discharge,
you are likely to use it right to the end, and hence discharge it well
below its 50% point.

Reference
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

for more discussion.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net
Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form.

 

[Adrian Jansen]

On 7/2/2014 4:58 AM, Damian wrote:

"Damian" <damian_andrews75@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:ld0kb9$s59$1@dont-email.me...
Have you guys notice, that the ebay AA, AAA 1.5 V Lithium Ion battery
listings(in China) is no more?
Must be licensing violation issues or something??!!

Still there's no shortage of 18650 & 14500 Lithium Ion (3.7V) and other
ones.
It's the AA, AAA 1.5V Lithium Ion ones are the real deal, if they can be
found.

Found this one, but no retailer.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-Green-Energy-Water-Battery-eco_146017575.html




And look at this, they are finally here.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Lithiumax-Car-or-Boat-Battery-550CCA-Lithium-Ultra-Light-Compact-LifePo4-/231151346854

Dont leave your lights or Doof-Doof music on too long after stopping !
"Equivalent Pb 36 AH rating" will not last long. Good for starting, but
not much else.

Also I would query the life - 5-10 years for a product new on the market
sometime last year - how do they know ? Yes I know LiPo has been around
for a while, but not in this configuration.

I assume its got a DC-DC converter to hold the voltage up under full
starter load, as well as control the charging. Some good engineering
needed there.

Its also about 3x the price of a standard car starter battery.


--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen adrianjansen at internode dot on dot net
Note reply address is invalid, convert address above to machine form.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Damian"

I assume its in fact a 'normal' 3.7 volt lithium cell internally, with a
buck converter holding the output voltage at 1.5 volts - neat.

What the technical difficulty behind producing a plain 1.5V Lithium Ion
cell?
Why does it has to be 3.7V with a buck converter?

** Wot a staggeringly stupid question.

Ever see a 1.5V NiCd, NiMH or SLA cell ?

No ? Wonder why ?

Hint: Cells are not electronic components.



..... Phil