List of Verilog Simulators

[Say Joe]

A Wikipedia entry on "List of Verilog Simulators" has been created and
approved:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Verilog_Simulators

Let's start contributing your knowledge to it. (please add Verilog
simulators only)

 

[Jonathan Bromley]

On 17 May 2007 02:17:13 -0700, Say Joe <ngsayjoe@gmail.com> wrote:

A Wikipedia entry on "List of Verilog Simulators" has been created and
approved:

Some of the value-judgements implied by your "descriptions" might,
not unreasonably, give offence. I'm surprised the unsupported
assertions got past any kind of review process. They are entirely
appropriate to a blog, but not to an article that (even if only
by association) claims to have some authority.
--
Jonathan Bromley, Consultant

DOULOS - Developing Design Know-how
VHDL * Verilog * SystemC * e * Perl * Tcl/Tk * Project Services

Doulos Ltd., 22 Market Place, Ringwood, BH24 1AW, UK
jonathan.bromley@MYCOMPANY.com
http://www.MYCOMPANY.com

The contents of this message may contain personal views which
are not the views of Doulos Ltd., unless specifically stated.

 

[Stephen Williams]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jonathan Bromley wrote:

On 17 May 2007 02:17:13 -0700, Say Joe <ngsayjoe@gmail.com> wrote:

A Wikipedia entry on "List of Verilog Simulators" has been created and
approved:

Some of the value-judgements implied by your "descriptions" might,
not unreasonably, give offence. I'm surprised the unsupported
assertions got past any kind of review process. They are entirely
appropriate to a blog, but not to an article that (even if only
by association) claims to have some authority.

I agree. The descriptions appear to be violations of Wikipedia
rules unless you have cites. For example: "This is the most popular
simulator with a very good debugger." Most popular needs at least
a cite, and "very good debugger" is a personal opinion. (Not that
I'm complaining that my work is "popular"

Also, there is (or was) a list of Verilog simulators in the links
section of the Verilog page. Notice how the comments there are more
in line with the Wikipedia quality standards.

- --
Steve Williams "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
steve at icarus.com But I have promises to keep,
http://www.icarus.com and lines to code before I sleep,
http://www.picturel.com And lines to code before I sleep."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGTI3ErPt1Sc2b3ikRAlVrAKDHU9lluL+rmJ53Ybc0pYAKlD0JRwCfVJrx
IETIlo3kAeP8m+udVn0EAZg=
=H4Vx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

[Say Joe]

Hi all,

This is just a draft (template), it's up to you guys to go out there
to improve it. This is what Wikipedia spirit is all about.

 

[Evan Lavelle]

On Thu, 17 May 2007 10:22:38 +0100, Jonathan Bromley
<jonathan.bromley@MYCOMPANY.com> wrote:

Some of the value-judgements implied by your "descriptions" might,
not unreasonably, give offence. I'm surprised the unsupported
assertions got past any kind of review process. They are entirely
appropriate to a blog, but not to an article that (even if only
by association) claims to have some authority.

Tut tut, Jonathan. It's surely a complete conincidence that the OP is
responsible for "the most user-friendly and affordable simulator"[1].

[1]
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.lang.verilog/browse_frm/thread/1bd178d9053f3d0c/1ef51810c9f053d8?lnk=st&q=&rnum=2&hl=en#1ef51810c9f053d8

Evan

 

[Stephen Williams]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Evan Lavelle wrote:

On Thu, 17 May 2007 10:22:38 +0100, Jonathan Bromley
jonathan.bromley@MYCOMPANY.com> wrote:

Some of the value-judgements implied by your "descriptions" might,
not unreasonably, give offence. I'm surprised the unsupported
assertions got past any kind of review process. They are entirely
appropriate to a blog, but not to an article that (even if only
by association) claims to have some authority.

Tut tut, Jonathan. It's surely a complete conincidence that the OP is
responsible for "the most user-friendly and affordable simulator"[1].

[1]
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.lang.verilog/browse_frm/thread/1bd178d9053f3d0c/1ef51810c9f053d8?lnk=st&q=&rnum=2&hl=en#1ef51810c9f053d8

Evan

You know what, this guy's stealth marketing has really been
getting on my nerves. I missed it Evan, thanks for pointing it
out.

For those who missed this reference, "Say Joe" is apparently the
same "Joe" of zeemz who has several times on this newsgroup in a
sly way promoted his commercial Verilog tool (zeemz) giving it
positive comments all the while hiding his relation to it. He seems
to me marketing his software by pretending to be a 3rd party with
good things to say about it.

- --
Steve Williams "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
steve at icarus.com But I have promises to keep,
http://www.icarus.com and lines to code before I sleep,
http://www.picturel.com And lines to code before I sleep."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGTcAKrPt1Sc2b3ikRAhd9AKDgHW3z/4jlj+/991XsCRvNM84CEgCg45Ke
i66gR5CXtYxkDezu7kSnGIA=
=rj+6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

[Say Joe]

Ok Steve Williams,

Now you really get on my nerves. First of all I wasn't try to hide my
identity, otherwise I would have use a different name. You can track
all my previous posts from my name.

Second who are you to dictate me of using Wikipedia as a marketing
tool. I love Verilog as much as you do, that's why I'm contributing my
knowledge to Wikipedia, and wrote a better Verilog simulator than your
lousy Icarus Verilog.

I'm just trying to announce the existence of such entry in Wikipedia,
if you don't like what I write you can edit/delete it. I'm giving my
opinion from my point of view, as an expert in this area. I do not own
Wikipedia, and that's how it works.

Saying someone "Sly" is not a good thing. Do you think you own
comp.lang.verilog now, let me know if you do, coz I won't be coming
again. I have my rights to announce my product and post anything I
deem appropriate on this forum. Yeah, I know you hate me, as I once
criticized how lousy Icarus Verilog was, and I still hold on to it.


On May 18, 8:02 am, Stephen Williams <spamt...@icarus.com> wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



Evan Lavelle wrote:
On Thu, 17 May 2007 10:22:38 +0100, Jonathan Bromley
jonathan.brom...@MYCOMPANY.com> wrote:

Some of the value-judgements implied by your "descriptions" might,
not unreasonably, give offence. I'm surprised the unsupported
assertions got past any kind of review process. They are entirely
appropriate to a blog, but not to an article that (even if only
by association) claims to have some authority.

Tut tut, Jonathan. It's surely a complete conincidence that the OP is
responsible for "the most user-friendly and affordable simulator"[1].

[1]
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.lang.verilog/browse_frm/thread/...

Evan

You know what, this guy's stealth marketing has really been
getting on my nerves. I missed it Evan, thanks for pointing it
out.

For those who missed this reference, "Say Joe" is apparently the
same "Joe" of zeemz who has several times on this newsgroup in a
sly way promoted his commercial Verilog tool (zeemz) giving it
positive comments all the while hiding his relation to it. He seems
to me marketing his software by pretending to be a 3rd party with
good things to say about it.

- --
Steve Williams "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
steve at icarus.com But I have promises to keep,http://www.icarus.com and lines to code before I sleep,http://www.picturel.com And lines to code before I sleep."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE -http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGTcAKrPt1Sc2b3ikRAhd9AKDgHW3z/4jlj+/991XsCRvNM84CEgCg45Ke
i66gR5CXtYxkDezu7kSnGIA=
=rj+6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

[Stephen Williams]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


OK, I was over the top. I'll lay off. Evan was much more civil about it.

Say Joe wrote:

Ok Steve Williams,

Now you really get on my nerves. First of all I wasn't try to hide my
identity, otherwise I would have use a different name. You can track
all my previous posts from my name.

Second who are you to dictate me of using Wikipedia as a marketing
tool. I love Verilog as much as you do, that's why I'm contributing my
knowledge to Wikipedia, and wrote a better Verilog simulator than your
lousy Icarus Verilog.

I'm just trying to announce the existence of such entry in Wikipedia,
if you don't like what I write you can edit/delete it. I'm giving my
opinion from my point of view, as an expert in this area. I do not own
Wikipedia, and that's how it works.

Saying someone "Sly" is not a good thing. Do you think you own
comp.lang.verilog now, let me know if you do, coz I won't be coming
again. I have my rights to announce my product and post anything I
deem appropriate on this forum. Yeah, I know you hate me, as I once
criticized how lousy Icarus Verilog was, and I still hold on to it.


On May 18, 8:02 am, Stephen Williams <spamt...@icarus.com> wrote:


Evan Lavelle wrote:
On Thu, 17 May 2007 10:22:38 +0100, Jonathan Bromley
jonathan.brom...@MYCOMPANY.com> wrote:
Some of the value-judgements implied by your "descriptions" might,
not unreasonably, give offence. I'm surprised the unsupported
assertions got past any kind of review process. They are entirely
appropriate to a blog, but not to an article that (even if only
by association) claims to have some authority.
Tut tut, Jonathan. It's surely a complete conincidence that the OP is
responsible for "the most user-friendly and affordable simulator"[1].
[1]
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.lang.verilog/browse_frm/thread/...
Evan
You know what, this guy's stealth marketing has really been
getting on my nerves. I missed it Evan, thanks for pointing it
out.

For those who missed this reference, "Say Joe" is apparently the
same "Joe" of zeemz who has several times on this newsgroup in a
sly way promoted his commercial Verilog tool (zeemz) giving it
positive comments all the while hiding his relation to it. He seems
to me marketing his software by pretending to be a 3rd party with
good things to say about it.

--
Steve Williams "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
steve at icarus.com But I have promises to keep,http://www.icarus.com and lines to code before I sleep,http://www.picturel.com And lines to code before I sleep."

- --
Steve Williams "The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
steve at icarus.com But I have promises to keep,
http://www.icarus.com and lines to code before I sleep,
http://www.picturel.com And lines to code before I sleep."
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGTc4CrPt1Sc2b3ikRAqaFAKDbUaxFhsyDRqXE8nXd5dTJQwwWEgCePxin
++Re1mUIll3iXwz8pRb2B+g=
=K3ol
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

[John_H]

"Say Joe" <ngsayjoe@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179503402.361815.241250@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
<snip>

Second who are you to dictate me of using Wikipedia as a marketing
tool.
snip

Wikipedia says you can't use it as a marketing tool.

"Advertising. Articles about companies and products are acceptable if they
are written in an objective and unbiased style. Furthermore, all article
topics must be third-party verifiable, so articles about very small "garage"
or local companies are not likely to be acceptable."

Your comments are not objective and unbiased. There is no third-part
verification available for your subjective claims.

- John_H

 

[Uwe Bonnes]

Say Joe <ngsayjoe@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok Steve Williams,

Now you really get on my nerves. First of all I wasn't try to hide my
identity, otherwise I would have use a different name. You can track
all my previous posts from my name.

Somebody who posts as "Say Joe <ngsayjoe@gmail.com>" hides his identity.
Perhaps he doesn't hide the history of his postings, by using the same
alias, but the identity is hidden.

--
Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
--------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------

 

[Say Joe]

John,

I have tried my best to provide unbias information to the list. As you
can see, I did list Icarus Verilog as popular, so is ModelSim as the
most popular and good debugger, along with VCS, Verilogger and so on.
I have personally done extensive research in this area. I included
commercial simulators along with free and open-source ones. Yes, I
claim my own written simulator as affordable and user-friendly, and
I'm open for anyone to disprove otherwise.

This post on comp.lang.verilog is supposed to be third-party
verification. If you refer to Wikipedia policies, they do allow
posting of draft, whereby you can gradually edit and improve. It's an
on-going process. I'm planning to add more citation and reference as
it goes, to support my claim.

On May 18, 9:36 am, "John_H" <newsgr...@johnhandwork.com> wrote:

"Say Joe" <ngsay...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1179503402.361815.241250@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
snip

Second who are you to dictate me of using Wikipedia as a marketing
tool.

snip

Wikipedia says you can't use it as a marketing tool.

"Advertising. Articles about companies and products are acceptable if they
are written in an objective and unbiased style. Furthermore, all article
topics must be third-party verifiable, so articles about very small "garage"
or local companies are not likely to be acceptable."

Your comments are not objective and unbiased. There is no third-part
verification available for your subjective claims.

- John_H

 

[HT-Lab]

"Say Joe" <ngsayjoe@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179453415.911557.35800@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

Hi all,

This is just a draft (template), it's up to you guys to go out there
to improve it.

but why would you create such an obvious biased and pure nonsense
description column in the first place? This is the reason why so many people
complain about Wikipedia,

Hans
www.ht-lab.com

> This is what Wikipedia spirit is all about.

 

[Evan Lavelle]

Oh dear. I really don't want to get (more) involved, but can I just
point out:

- Steve doesn't hate you. Really.

- Writing a Wikipedia entry describing your product as "the most
user-friendly and affordable simulator" is marketing (and is quite
obviously incorrect, since $0 is more affordable than $300).

- Wikipedia should not be used for advertising. See your talk page:

Wikipedia is not an advertising service. Promotional articles about yourself, your friends, your company or products, or articles created as part of a marketing or promotional campaign, will be deleted in accordance with our deletion policies. For more information, see Wikipedia:Spam.

- We all know that there are a *lot* of Verilog simulators out there.
If you write a Wikipedia entry listing only 10 of them, including your
own, then you've got to expect people to suspect your motives. And
your first edit listed only the big four, yourself, and Icarus.

- You can write what you want in c.l.v. However, nobody is going to
respect you, or your company, if you have a commercial angle and keep
quiet about it, which is exactly what you do. You can't expect people
to google your signature every time you post.

- Icarus is *not* 'lousy'.

- I'd really like to try LogicSim. I can auto-generate a vast amount
of Verilog code, and have found bugs in all the simulators I've tried.
If you mail me a product key (preferably Linux) I'll run my
regressions and post the results.

Evan

 

[Jonathan Bromley]

On Fri, 18 May 2007 18:04:13 +0100,
Evan Lavelle <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

- I'd really like to try LogicSim. I can auto-generate a vast amount
of Verilog code, and have found bugs in all the simulators I've tried.
If you mail me a product key (preferably Linux) I'll run my
regressions and post the results.

Seems to be Win32 only, but to its credit it offers a 30-day
no-strings trial. It appears to be designed as PhD software
(Push Here, Dummy) - I haven't yet figured how to ask it to
run the sim for a certain length of simulation time, for
example, and if you want an interactive command line
you will need to build one for yourself. The GUI is cute
but has already started to irritate me with its lack of
conventional key bindings - for example Ctrl/S doesn't
do file-save while editing. I couldn't get breakpoints
to work. For software that claims to be user-friendly,
I would have thought that it would be a good idea to warn
the user if they try to re-run a sim without recompiling
after a code edit. It is an understatement to say that the
wave viewer could use some work, but in fairness it says
for itself that it's intended to be fairly basic.
I haven't yet figured out why it seems to demand that there
be just one top level - Verilog doesn't work like that.

So, that's my half-hour test drive. I'll play some more
when I have a chance, because it looks interesting and
useful. I don't really see Mentor/Synopsys/Cadence
quaking in their boots just yet, though.
--
Jonathan Bromley, Consultant

DOULOS - Developing Design Know-how
VHDL * Verilog * SystemC * e * Perl * Tcl/Tk * Project Services

Doulos Ltd., 22 Market Place, Ringwood, BH24 1AW, UK
jonathan.bromley@MYCOMPANY.com
http://www.MYCOMPANY.com

The contents of this message may contain personal views which
are not the views of Doulos Ltd., unless specifically stated.