Lie Detector Ambiguous

  • Thread starter Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun
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Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun

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I've seen this simple circuit a few places, I'm not sure who the
originator was. Probably been plagiarized by other web sites.
So I built one to see how it works. http://www.madlab.org/lie.html

It's supposed to be somewhat of a schmit trigger but since the LED has
very little voltage change as the current changes, the LEDs don't
switch, both stay on in the critical area where there should be only
one on. I think I'm gonna try putting some resistance in series with
the left LED.

BTW, mine lights the left LED with high resistance, and the right with
low resistance, so the left should be green, not red.

Also, the VR1 seems to want to be set to its maximum, so some
resistance should be put in series with it. I'm using three 2N3904
NPNs for the transistors. Followups later with more info.


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a045d464606ec6e989825@news.dslextreme.com...
I've seen this simple circuit a few places, I'm not sure who the
originator was. Probably been plagiarized by other web sites.
So I built one to see how it works. http://www.madlab.org/lie.html

It's supposed to be somewhat of a schmit trigger but since the LED has
very little voltage change as the current changes, the LEDs don't
switch, both stay on in the critical area where there should be only
one on. I think I'm gonna try putting some resistance in series with
the left LED.

BTW, mine lights the left LED with high resistance, and the right with
low resistance, so the left should be green, not red.

Also, the VR1 seems to want to be set to its maximum, so some
resistance should be put in series with it. I'm using three 2N3904
NPNs for the transistors. Followups later with more info.
Click to expand...
A lying lie detector? Say it ain't so!
 
In article <vplj26imjjd8f8@corp.supernews.com>,
fandaDEATH2SPAMMERS@catskill.net mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a045d464606ec6e989825@news.dslextreme.com...

I've seen this simple circuit a few places, I'm not sure who the
originator was. Probably been plagiarized by other web sites.
So I built one to see how it works. http://www.madlab.org/lie.html

It's supposed to be somewhat of a schmit trigger but since the LED has
very little voltage change as the current changes, the LEDs don't
switch, both stay on in the critical area where there should be only
one on. I think I'm gonna try putting some resistance in series with
the left LED.

BTW, mine lights the left LED with high resistance, and the right with
low resistance, so the left should be green, not red.

Also, the VR1 seems to want to be set to its maximum, so some
resistance should be put in series with it. I'm using three 2N3904
NPNs for the transistors. Followups later with more info.

A lying lie detector? Say it ain't so!
Click to expand...
I didn't say that. It's not lying, it's indeterminate, or ambiguous.


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:44:53 -0700, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun"
<alondra101@hotmail.com> Gave us:


I didn't say that. It's not lying, it's indeterminate, or ambiguous.
Click to expand...

As is believing in any determinations made by such a device.

I'd be willing to bet that an exciting truth can yield the same
stimulus as a concealment, falsehood, omission, or lie.

In other words, I have zero faith in such devices. It is good that
they are disallowed in courtrooms in the US.
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a04b8e2e46b1476989827@news.dslextreme.com...
In article <vplj26imjjd8f8@corp.supernews.com>,
fandaDEATH2SPAMMERS@catskill.net mentioned...

"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a045d464606ec6e989825@news.dslextreme.com...

I've seen this simple circuit a few places, I'm not sure who the
originator was. Probably been plagiarized by other web sites.
So I built one to see how it works. http://www.madlab.org/lie.html

It's supposed to be somewhat of a schmit trigger but since the LED has
very little voltage change as the current changes, the LEDs don't
switch, both stay on in the critical area where there should be only
one on. I think I'm gonna try putting some resistance in series with
the left LED.

BTW, mine lights the left LED with high resistance, and the right with
low resistance, so the left should be green, not red.

Also, the VR1 seems to want to be set to its maximum, so some
resistance should be put in series with it. I'm using three 2N3904
NPNs for the transistors. Followups later with more info.

A lying lie detector? Say it ain't so!

I didn't say that. It's not lying, it's indeterminate, or ambiguous.
Click to expand...
Ah...an ambiguity or indeterminacy detector...much better ;-)

@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
Click to expand...
 
In article <vpnh0ne35m6t18@corp.supernews.com>,
fandaDEATH2SPAMMERS@catskill.net mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a045d464606ec6e989825@news.dslextreme.com...

I've seen this simple circuit a few places, I'm not sure who the
originator was. Probably been plagiarized by other web sites.
So I built one to see how it works. http://www.madlab.org/lie.html

It's supposed to be somewhat of a schmit trigger but since the LED has
very little voltage change as the current changes, the LEDs don't
switch, both stay on in the critical area where there should be only
one on. I think I'm gonna try putting some resistance in series with
the left LED.

BTW, mine lights the left LED with high resistance, and the right with
low resistance, so the left should be green, not red.

Also, the VR1 seems to want to be set to its maximum, so some
resistance should be put in series with it. I'm using three 2N3904
NPNs for the transistors. Followups later with more info.

It looks like the 2N3904 loses gain rapidly at low currents. Why not try
higher gain transistors or make TR2 into a Darlington pair also. You might
also try replacing the transistors with a high gain comparator.
Click to expand...
I was trying to KISS. I put a 300 ohm trimpot in series with the left
LED, and with it cranked up to max the LEDs still both come on, no
discernible improvement. I'm gonna experiment with a transistor CCS
in place of R4. A red LED for the 2V base bias, and a trimpot for the
emitter resistor to set the current.

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
In article <vpnm4og7epnr28@corp.supernews.com>,
fandaDEATH2SPAMMERS@catskill.net mentioned...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a045d464606ec6e989825@news.dslextreme.com...

I've seen this simple circuit a few places, I'm not sure who the
originator was. Probably been plagiarized by other web sites.
So I built one to see how it works. http://www.madlab.org/lie.html

It's supposed to be somewhat of a schmit trigger but since the LED has
very little voltage change as the current changes, the LEDs don't
switch, both stay on in the critical area where there should be only
one on. I think I'm gonna try putting some resistance in series with
the left LED.

BTW, mine lights the left LED with high resistance, and the right with
low resistance, so the left should be green, not red.

Also, the VR1 seems to want to be set to its maximum, so some
resistance should be put in series with it. I'm using three 2N3904
NPNs for the transistors. Followups later with more info.

I don't get it. I set the circuit up in spice and when I set R2 to 1K and
VR1 to 1meg, neither transistor goes on. When I set VR1 to 1K and R2 to
1meg, neither transistor goes on. What the hell is going on?
Click to expand...
Well, I thought spice was supposed to _tell_ you what was going on(!)
Being that I don't use it, you've seriously weakened my anticipation
of using it someday. :p

I got zapped a while ago, power went out for a half second or so.
Damn fires out in the mountains must've caused an arcover of a EHV
line. Yesterday it rained ashes to the point where when I walked,
little swirls of ash trailed each footstep. Everything outside was
covered with it. Probably not good for the paint since it has a high
alkali content. Since early this morning it's been smelling like
smoke all over, because of the santa ana winds blowing offshore.
Weird. I wonder hoe many of those ashes are from burned-up homes?

--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:09:13 -0800, Baphomet wrote:

Ah...an ambiguity or indeterminacy detector...much better ;-)
Click to expand...

Similar principle to an improbability generator?

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
nofr@sbhevre.pbzchyvax.pb.hx
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a045d464606ec6e989825@news.dslextreme.com...
I've seen this simple circuit a few places, I'm not sure who the
originator was. Probably been plagiarized by other web sites.
So I built one to see how it works. http://www.madlab.org/lie.html

It's supposed to be somewhat of a schmit trigger but since the LED has
very little voltage change as the current changes, the LEDs don't
switch, both stay on in the critical area where there should be only
one on. I think I'm gonna try putting some resistance in series with
the left LED.

BTW, mine lights the left LED with high resistance, and the right with
low resistance, so the left should be green, not red.

Also, the VR1 seems to want to be set to its maximum, so some
resistance should be put in series with it. I'm using three 2N3904
NPNs for the transistors. Followups later with more info.
Click to expand...
It looks like the 2N3904 loses gain rapidly at low currents. Why not try
higher gain transistors or make TR2 into a Darlington pair also. You might
also try replacing the transistors with a high gain comparator.
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a045d464606ec6e989825@news.dslextreme.com...
I've seen this simple circuit a few places, I'm not sure who the
originator was. Probably been plagiarized by other web sites.
So I built one to see how it works. http://www.madlab.org/lie.html

It's supposed to be somewhat of a schmit trigger but since the LED has
very little voltage change as the current changes, the LEDs don't
switch, both stay on in the critical area where there should be only
one on. I think I'm gonna try putting some resistance in series with
the left LED.

BTW, mine lights the left LED with high resistance, and the right with
low resistance, so the left should be green, not red.

Also, the VR1 seems to want to be set to its maximum, so some
resistance should be put in series with it. I'm using three 2N3904
NPNs for the transistors. Followups later with more info.
Click to expand...
I don't get it. I set the circuit up in spice and when I set R2 to 1K and
VR1 to 1meg, neither transistor goes on. When I set VR1 to 1K and R2 to
1meg, neither transistor goes on. What the hell is going on?
 
"Baphomet" <fandaDEATH2SPAMMERS@catskill.net> wrote in message
news:vpnm4og7epnr28@corp.supernews.com...
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" <alondra101@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a045d464606ec6e989825@news.dslextreme.com...

I've seen this simple circuit a few places, I'm not sure who the
originator was. Probably been plagiarized by other web sites.
So I built one to see how it works. http://www.madlab.org/lie.html

It's supposed to be somewhat of a schmit trigger but since the LED has
very little voltage change as the current changes, the LEDs don't
switch, both stay on in the critical area where there should be only
one on. I think I'm gonna try putting some resistance in series with
the left LED.

BTW, mine lights the left LED with high resistance, and the right with
low resistance, so the left should be green, not red.

Also, the VR1 seems to want to be set to its maximum, so some
resistance should be put in series with it. I'm using three 2N3904
NPNs for the transistors. Followups later with more info.

I don't get it. I set the circuit up in spice and when I set R2 to 1K and
VR1 to 1meg, neither transistor goes on. When I set VR1 to 1K and R2 to
1meg, neither transistor goes on. What the hell is going on?
Click to expand...
DUH...What a schmuck I am. I put a 1K resistor in series with both LED's and
it works fine. Wish I could blame it on old age. Come to think of it. I CAN
blame it on old age ;-)
 
In news:pan.2003.10.26.14.11.59.438128@cerebrumconfus.it (Fred Abse):
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:09:13 -0800, Baphomet wrote:

Ah...an ambiguity or indeterminacy detector...much better ;-)


Similar principle to an improbability generator?
Click to expand...

Sheesh! next we'll be digging out the black led's!
 
Mark Jones wrote:
In news:pan.2003.10.26.14.11.59.438128@cerebrumconfus.it (Fred Abse):
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:09:13 -0800, Baphomet wrote:

Ah...an ambiguity or indeterminacy detector...much better ;-)


Similar principle to an improbability generator?

Sheesh! next we'll be digging out the black led's!
Click to expand...
You haven't tried them yet? They are GREAT for removing the last few
stray photons in a darkroom! ;-)
--


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
In article <3F9C0E28.FFFC1C41@earthlink.net>,
mike.terrell@earthlink.net mentioned...
Mark Jones wrote:

In news:pan.2003.10.26.14.11.59.438128@cerebrumconfus.it (Fred Abse):
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:09:13 -0800, Baphomet wrote:

Ah...an ambiguity or indeterminacy detector...much better ;-)


Similar principle to an improbability generator?

Sheesh! next we'll be digging out the black led's!

You haven't tried them yet? They are GREAT for removing the last few
stray photons in a darkroom! ;-)
Click to expand...
But, but, but.. If there are still stray photons in a dakrroom, then
it's not really a dark room, but an almost dark room. :)


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 <at> hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@
 
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:26:17 -0800, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun"
<alondra101@hotmail.com> Gave us:

In article <3F9C0E28.FFFC1C41@earthlink.net>,
mike.terrell@earthlink.net mentioned...
Mark Jones wrote:

In news:pan.2003.10.26.14.11.59.438128@cerebrumconfus.it (Fred Abse):
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:09:13 -0800, Baphomet wrote:

Ah...an ambiguity or indeterminacy detector...much better ;-)


Similar principle to an improbability generator?

Sheesh! next we'll be digging out the black led's!

You haven't tried them yet? They are GREAT for removing the last few
stray photons in a darkroom! ;-)

But, but, but.. If there are still stray photons in a dakrroom, then
it's not really a dark room, but an almost dark room. :)
Click to expand...
There would be a difference between "darkroom" the noun, and "dark
room" the adjective modified noun.

You figure it out.
 
"Watson A.Name - Watt Sun" wrote:
In article <3F9C0E28.FFFC1C41@earthlink.net>,
mike.terrell@earthlink.net mentioned...
Mark Jones wrote:

In news:pan.2003.10.26.14.11.59.438128@cerebrumconfus.it (Fred Abse):
On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 07:09:13 -0800, Baphomet wrote:

Ah...an ambiguity or indeterminacy detector...much better ;-)


Similar principle to an improbability generator?

Sheesh! next we'll be digging out the black led's!

You haven't tried them yet? They are GREAT for removing the last few
stray photons in a darkroom! ;-)

But, but, but.. If there are still stray photons in a dakrroom, then
it's not really a dark room, but an almost dark room. :)

--
Click to expand...
Geeze! Why do you think they invented black LEDs in the first place?
;-)


--


Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
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