Li-Ion Rechargeable batteries - shelf life?

[Alan Rutlidge]

Hi all,

Just wondering do Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries (the type used in
mobile phones) have a shelf life as such? What I'm really trying to
assertain is if a Li-Ion rechargeable was manufactured 4 years ago and never
charged and then placed into service, would this affect the charge capacity
of the battery? If so what amount of deterioration in performance (if any)
could be expected from the battery?

Any pointers to websites (please don't suggest a Google search - been there
done that!) or informed opinions appreciated.

Cheers,
Alan

 

[Phil Allison]

"Alan Rutlidge" <rutlidge*nO-sPaM*@mail.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:3f8389c4$0$23603$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au...

Hi all,


Just wondering do Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries (the type used in
mobile phones) have a shelf life as such? What I'm really trying to
assertain is if a Li-Ion rechargeable was manufactured 4 years ago and
never
charged and then placed into service, would this affect the charge
capacity
of the battery? If so what amount of deterioration in performance (if
any)
could be expected from the battery?

Any pointers to websites (please don't suggest a Google search - been
there
done that!) or informed opinions appreciated.

** I do not have a definitive answer for you but a very strong hunch
that the shelf life depends on the storage temperature, the brand and
particular model of Li-Ion cell and luck.

The above is true of all other rechargeable cells.



.......... Phil

 

[David L. Jones]

"Alan Rutlidge" <rutlidge*nO-sPaM*@mail.iinet.net.au> wrote in message news:<3f8389c4$0$23603$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>...

Hi all,

Just wondering do Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries (the type used in
mobile phones) have a shelf life as such? What I'm really trying to
assertain is if a Li-Ion rechargeable was manufactured 4 years ago and never
charged and then placed into service, would this affect the charge capacity
of the battery? If so what amount of deterioration in performance (if any)
could be expected from the battery?

Any pointers to websites (please don't suggest a Google search - been there
done that!) or informed opinions appreciated.

Cheers,
Alan

No idea, but at least a few of the manufacturers recommend storing
them in a low temperature and low humidity environment for extended
periods of non-use.

You could try asking some of the pack manufactuers like Saft, Worley
etc

Regards
Dave

 

[john]

The biggest problem with li-ion is that it has the shortest life span when
compared to other rechargeable batteries. In some worst cases, the li-ion
can loss half its capacity in just six months after manufacturing. As
previous posts said, temperature and humidity will be the two main factors
determine the rate of deterioration of your li-ion battery. Why not perform
a simple discharge test to determine your battery capacity?







"David L. Jones" <tronnort@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:894aa0b3.0310081812.3ecdab7a@posting.google.com...

"Alan Rutlidge" <rutlidge*nO-sPaM*@mail.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:<3f8389c4$0L$23603$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>...
Hi all,

Just wondering do Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries (the type used in
mobile phones) have a shelf life as such? What I'm really trying to
assertain is if a Li-Ion rechargeable was manufactured 4 years ago and
never
charged and then placed into service, would this affect the charge
capacity
of the battery? If so what amount of deterioration in performance (if
any)
could be expected from the battery?

Any pointers to websites (please don't suggest a Google search - been
there
done that!) or informed opinions appreciated.

Cheers,
Alan

No idea, but at least a few of the manufacturers recommend storing
them in a low temperature and low humidity environment for extended
periods of non-use.

You could try asking some of the pack manufactuers like Saft, Worley
etc

Regards
Dave

 

[Alan Rutlidge]

"john" <john@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3f84e7d6@dnews.tpgi.com.au...

The biggest problem with li-ion is that it has the shortest life span when
compared to other rechargeable batteries. In some worst cases, the li-ion
can loss half its capacity in just six months after manufacturing. As
previous posts said, temperature and humidity will be the two main factors
determine the rate of deterioration of your li-ion battery. Why not
perform
a simple discharge test to determine your battery capacity?

Non controlled testing has revealed the Li-Ion in question isn't performing
nearly as well as claimed by the manufacturer.
The claimed performance when used in their mobile phone is 115 hours of
standy time which is approximately equal to 7.8 days. This is pretty much
the performance we were getting out of the original battery supplied with
the phone. The replacement battery (exactly the same type / product code
etc) is getting less than 2 days of standy time. Something is telling me
there must be something wrong.....

The only clue the new replacement battery might be old stock is the
protective plastic holder the battey is shipped in. It has a moulding stamp
indicating it was made in the 4th month of 2000 - more than 3 years ago. It
makes me wonder if the battery was made at about the same time and if so
have there past 3 yrs + of shelf life caused some deterioration in battery
performance as has been suggested in replies to this thread? I guess if
this is the case, then stamping a "use by" date on this type of product
might be of use to consumers when selecting the product.

Cheers,
Alan

 

[The real Andy]

"Alan Rutlidge" <rutlidge*nO-sPaM*@mail.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:3f850f42$0$23607$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au...

Non controlled testing has revealed the Li-Ion in question isn't
performing
nearly as well as claimed by the manufacturer.
The claimed performance when used in their mobile phone is 115 hours of
standy time which is approximately equal to 7.8 days. This is pretty much
the performance we were getting out of the original battery supplied with
the phone. The replacement battery (exactly the same type / product code
etc) is getting less than 2 days of standy time. Something is telling me
there must be something wrong.....

The only clue the new replacement battery might be old stock is the
protective plastic holder the battey is shipped in. It has a moulding
stamp
indicating it was made in the 4th month of 2000 - more than 3 years ago.
It
makes me wonder if the battery was made at about the same time and if so
have there past 3 yrs + of shelf life caused some deterioration in battery
performance as has been suggested in replies to this thread? I guess if
this is the case, then stamping a "use by" date on this type of product
might be of use to consumers when selecting the product.

My experience with Li.ion batteries in mobile phones has been very good. In
fact, by the time the battery has expired my phone is usually well overdue
for replacement.

I am doing a portable batt powered design at the moment and am considering
Li.Ion for its supreme time between charges. Cost's a little more to
implement, but I think it's worth it from my experience. I may be surprised
when I put the design into production, but I'm willing to give it ago.

 

[Grant R]

You may find this of some interest- especially the charge state of
storage.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Grant



<rutlidge*nO-sPaM*@mail.iinet.net.au> wrote:

Hi all,

Just wondering do Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries (the type used in
mobile phones) have a shelf life as such? What I'm really trying to
assertain is if a Li-Ion rechargeable was manufactured 4 years ago and never
charged and then placed into service, would this affect the charge capacity
of the battery? If so what amount of deterioration in performance (if any)
could be expected from the battery?

Any pointers to websites (please don't suggest a Google search - been there
done that!) or informed opinions appreciated.

Cheers,
Alan

 

[Alan Rutlidge]

"Grant R" <notheregrobertsnospam@o1z2e3m4a5i6l7dotnospamcom.au> wrote in
message news:5i7fovsp5pg7sngkibf1r12cas06s162fj@4ax.com...

You may find this of some interest- especially the charge state of
storage.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Grant

Thanks Grant,

Just the article I was looking for. Certainly might explain the problems
I'm having with this particualt battery. I now suspect the battery has been
sitting on the rack for possibly 3 or so years. Explains why the
performance is so poor and not a good as the original unit supplied with the
phone.

Cheers,
Alan

 

[Rod Speed]

Grant R <notheregrobertsnospam@o1z2e3m4a5i6l7dotnospamcom.au>
wrote in message news:5i7fovsp5pg7sngkibf1r12cas06s162fj@4ax.com...

You may find this of some interest-
especially the charge state of storage.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Anyone got any site that covers the INITIAL charge ?

With NiCads the recommendation has been for a rather
long initial charge, mostly seen with mobile phone manuals.

Thats still seen with later stuff, most obviously with the
Panasonic 7xx DECT cordless phones which are NiMH.

Mobile phone manuals tend to not bash you over the
head with that anymore but do still usually mention that
deep in the manual, particularly with Nokia manuals.

rutlidge*nO-sPaM*@mail.iinet.net.au> wrote:

Hi all,

Just wondering do Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries (the type used in
mobile phones) have a shelf life as such? What I'm really trying to
assertain is if a Li-Ion rechargeable was manufactured 4 years ago and never
charged and then placed into service, would this affect the charge capacity
of the battery? If so what amount of deterioration in performance (if any)
could be expected from the battery?

Any pointers to websites (please don't suggest a Google search - been there
done that!) or informed opinions appreciated.

Cheers,
Alan

 

[Grant R]

Rod,
this, I think, is the definitive article on Li Ion, and while there is
no mention of initial charge, page 5 references the need for a proper
starting voltage.
http://home.gci.net/~botgoodies/LithBatt/LiIon2.pdf
Also I think one must consider the control electronics in the battery
packs!
http://www.smbus.org/ is an example of Duracell/Intel protocols-
different manufacturers may use different protocols- and stupidly not
all batteries are interchangeable.
Grant R


On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 05:23:04 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Grant R <notheregrobertsnospam@o1z2e3m4a5i6l7dotnospamcom.au
wrote in message news:5i7fovsp5pg7sngkibf1r12cas06s162fj@4ax.com...

You may find this of some interest-
especially the charge state of storage.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Anyone got any site that covers the INITIAL charge ?

With NiCads the recommendation has been for a rather
long initial charge, mostly seen with mobile phone manuals.

Thats still seen with later stuff, most obviously with the
Panasonic 7xx DECT cordless phones which are NiMH.

Mobile phone manuals tend to not bash you over the
head with that anymore but do still usually mention that
deep in the manual, particularly with Nokia manuals.




rutlidge*nO-sPaM*@mail.iinet.net.au> wrote:

Hi all,

Just wondering do Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries (the type used in
mobile phones) have a shelf life as such? What I'm really trying to
assertain is if a Li-Ion rechargeable was manufactured 4 years ago and never
charged and then placed into service, would this affect the charge capacity
of the battery? If so what amount of deterioration in performance (if any)
could be expected from the battery?

Any pointers to websites (please don't suggest a Google search - been there
done that!) or informed opinions appreciated.

Cheers,
Alan

 

[Rod Speed]

Grant R <notheregrobertsnospam@o1z2e3m4a5i6l7dotnospamcom.au>
wrote in message news:gbtgov89aegtohmgbditkgt66o1kpjureh@4ax.com...

this, I think, is the definitive article on Li Ion, and
while there is no mention of initial charge, page 5
references the need for a proper starting voltage.
http://home.gci.net/~botgoodies/LithBatt/LiIon2.pdf

Sorry, I didnt mean that, I meant the initial charge time
when you first use the batterys, usually out of the box.
Not something you do after the first charge.

Also I think one must consider the
control electronics in the battery packs!
http://www.smbus.org/ is an example of Duracell/Intel
protocols-different manufacturers may use different
protocols- and stupidly not all batteries are interchangeable.

Yeah, and I notice that with some stuff like the Panasonic
7xx DECT cordless phones, you can use NiCad or NiMH
and one of the setup options tells it whats been used.

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 05:23:04 +1000, "Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com
wrote:


Grant R <notheregrobertsnospam@o1z2e3m4a5i6l7dotnospamcom.au
wrote in message news:5i7fovsp5pg7sngkibf1r12cas06s162fj@4ax.com...

You may find this of some interest-
especially the charge state of storage.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Anyone got any site that covers the INITIAL charge ?

With NiCads the recommendation has been for a rather
long initial charge, mostly seen with mobile phone manuals.

Thats still seen with later stuff, most obviously with the
Panasonic 7xx DECT cordless phones which are NiMH.

Mobile phone manuals tend to not bash you over the
head with that anymore but do still usually mention that
deep in the manual, particularly with Nokia manuals.




rutlidge*nO-sPaM*@mail.iinet.net.au> wrote:

Hi all,

Just wondering do Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries (the type used in
mobile phones) have a shelf life as such? What I'm really trying to
assertain is if a Li-Ion rechargeable was manufactured 4 years ago and never
charged and then placed into service, would this affect the charge capacity
of the battery? If so what amount of deterioration in performance (if any)
could be expected from the battery?

Any pointers to websites (please don't suggest a Google search - been there
done that!) or informed opinions appreciated.

Cheers,
Alan

 

[amstereo - matt2]

I had a 2nd battery supplied with my T28 mobile (lithium polymer) never used
the 2nd one because i never needed it, and the only way for it to have been
usfull would have needed the desktop charger (accepts 1 battery and the
phone)

Guess what?

I found the battery the other day, she's not healthy. after 3 years, its
puff'd up , as in its no longer flat on both sides, she's like a balloon.

so after 3 years the origional battery is giving up the ghost (2/3 the
origional capacity) and the 2nd one never got a shoe-in.

$100 for a new battery too.

so these things have a use-or-else policy.

















"Alan Rutlidge" <rutlidge*nO-sPaM*@mail.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:3f8389c4$0$23603$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au...

Hi all,

Just wondering do Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries (the type used in
mobile phones) have a shelf life as such? What I'm really trying to
assertain is if a Li-Ion rechargeable was manufactured 4 years ago and
never
charged and then placed into service, would this affect the charge
capacity
of the battery? If so what amount of deterioration in performance (if
any)
could be expected from the battery?

Any pointers to websites (please don't suggest a Google search - been
there
done that!) or informed opinions appreciated.

Cheers,
Alan