Learning backend stuff

[googler]

Hi all,

I am an ASIC designer who works mostly on the front end (RTL coding).
I want to teach myself on how things are done in the backend by
working on small (hobby) projects. My main requirement is not just to
learn the concepts, but to gain hands-on experience using some of the
industry standard tools (like Design Compiler, PrimeTime etc) and
formats (like SDC files).

(1) How can I do this on my own without spending a lot of money for
all the different tools? My first choice, of course, is the most
common tools like DC or PT, but if there are cheaper but similar tools
available, that may be fine too.
(2) I had earlier been thinking about using an FPGA board for this,
but will the same tools (as mentioned earlier) work for FPGA? How
different are the tools that come with the FPGA boards?

I got myself a copy of the book "Advanced ASIC Chip Synthesis using
Synopsys Design Compiler, Physical Compiler and PrimeTime". So I would
prefer something (that is, what tools or which platform) that will not
be too different from what the book talks about.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Muzaffer Kal]

On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 00:06:32 -0800 (PST), googler
<pinaki_m77@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I am an ASIC designer who works mostly on the front end (RTL coding).
I want to teach myself on how things are done in the backend by
working on small (hobby) projects. My main requirement is not just to
learn the concepts, but to gain hands-on experience using some of the
industry standard tools (like Design Compiler, PrimeTime etc) and
formats (like SDC files).

These somewhat of a pickle. These days most back-end issues are

related to CTS, low-power/leakage, cross-talk, signal-integrity, DFM,
DFT and similar issues and they require significant investment of time
(assuming money is no object) to get acquainted with. Also as an RTL
designer, you should be familiar with documenting your own constraints
in SDC anyway.

(1) How can I do this on my own without spending a lot of money for
all the different tools? My first choice, of course, is the most
common tools like DC or PT, but if there are cheaper but similar tools
available, that may be fine too.

Do you have access to DC, PC, PT and similar tools through your
current employer? That would be the only way to get at them. ASIC
tools are extremely expensive and would be quite difficult to acquire
any other way.

(2) I had earlier been thinking about using an FPGA board for this,
but will the same tools (as mentioned earlier) work for FPGA? How
different are the tools that come with the FPGA boards?

Almost none of the significant ASIC back-end issues are of any

importance for FPGAs so other than doing synthesis with correct
constraints, FPGA experience doesn't buy you much.

I got myself a copy of the book "Advanced ASIC Chip Synthesis using
Synopsys Design Compiler, Physical Compiler and PrimeTime". So I would
prefer something (that is, what tools or which platform) that will not
be too different from what the book talks about.

If I were starting ASIC back-end work today, I'd download a serious
design (like LEON or Open-sparc etc.) and do a top to bottom flow on
it ie synthesis, P&R, CTS, STA, DFT, LVS, DRC; the whole thing if you
have access to the tools.

Muzaffer Kal

DSPIA INC.
ASIC/FPGA Design Services
http://www.dspia.com

 

[Frank Buss]

Muzaffer Kal wrote:

Do you have access to DC, PC, PT and similar tools through your
current employer? That would be the only way to get at them. ASIC
tools are extremely expensive and would be quite difficult to acquire
any other way.

If you have lots of time and passion, you can write the tools yourself:

http://www.ultratechnology.com/tape1-2.htm

--
Frank Buss, fb@frank-buss.de
http://www.frank-buss.de, http://www.it4-systems.de

 

[Darol Klawetter]

On Feb 9, 2:06 am, googler <pinaki_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I am an ASIC designer who works mostly on the front end (RTL coding).
I want to teach myself on how things are done in the backend by
working on small (hobby) projects. My main requirement is not just to
learn the concepts, but to gain hands-on experience using some of the
industry standard tools (like Design Compiler, PrimeTime etc) and
formats (like SDC files).

(1) How can I do this on my own without spending a lot of money for
all the different tools? My first choice, of course, is the most
common tools like DC or PT, but if there are cheaper but similar tools
available, that may be fine too.
(2) I had earlier been thinking about using an FPGA board for this,
but will the same tools (as mentioned earlier) work for FPGA? How
different are the tools that come with the FPGA boards?

I got myself a copy of the book "Advanced ASIC Chip Synthesis using
Synopsys Design Compiler, Physical Compiler and PrimeTime". So I would
prefer something (that is, what tools or which platform) that will not
be too different from what the book talks about.

Thanks in advance.

I've done ASIC design on the front and back ends. First, DC is not
considered a back-end tool. Back-end typically refers to physical
design, such as P&R, CTS, parasitic extraction, DRC, LVS, etc. This is
not the realm of the hobbyist unless he's a millionaire (licenses are
in the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars) or works for a
company that has the tools. If your company does have the tools, you
may find it difficult to get access to them if the licenses are being
used for company projects.

I actually enjoy the RTL design more than the back-end work, which can
be a tedious grind. RTL design allows for creativity; back-end work,
though requiring a great deal of hard-earned technical skill, can
really become a slog. The tools require quite an investment of time to
master. The nuances, bugs, and quirks of the tools are initially
overwhelming to the beginner.

On the upside, it's satisfying to learn the whole IC tool flow, and it
will make you a better RTL designer because you'll know what design
structures are handled well by the tools.

Darol Klawetter