Leaded or Unleaded Solder?

[phaeton]

In the opinion or study of this ng, how much of a concern is lead-based
solder to the health of the hobbyist in normal use and care?

Is lead-free solder more difficult to work with, or otherwise inferior
in the end-result?

Are lead-free solders expensive and/or hard to acquire? Just as toxic
(but in different ways?)

Has anyone set up any sort of a "fume hood" or other "fume removal
system" at their soldering station? (I plan on doing this with some
computer case fans, some dryer hose and maybe some PVC, but am i just
nuts?)

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Rich Grise]

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:56:56 -0800, phaeton wrote:

In the opinion or study of this ng, how much of a concern is lead-based
solder to the health of the hobbyist in normal use and care?

It's over-hyped by a factor of about a million. The risk is negligible.
You might get lead poisoning if for the first seven years of your life
you subsist primarily on lead paint chips, or if you lived in ancient
Rome, where all the water came through lead pipes, but as far as soldering,
you face more of a risk from inhaling flux fumes. (which is still almost
negligible.)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Bob Masta]

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:53:46 -0500, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote:

(my opinions follow)
There is no dangerous fume given off by tin lead solder when heated
enough to produce circuit boards. The risk is from ingestion. Wash
your hands after work, before eating. Don't eat while you work. The
trend toward lead free solder is about ground water contamination in
land fills, not about worker safety.

I used to know a toxicologist who had done studies on this.
He claimed that the smoke was indeed hazardous and that
one should at least use a vent fan. I've forgotten what the
hazard was, but I don't think it was lead.

Anyway, I've been using lead-based solder for decades
and there's hardly anything wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-
wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong-wrong
with me!

Best regards,




Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com

 

[Steve Dunbar]

Solder used for electronics doesn't normally get hot enough to vaporize any
significant amount of lead; it's the flux fumes that can be a problem. Wash
your hands after handling solder to avoid ingesting any lead that may have
rubbed off on your hands. Using a "no-clean" solder will produce less
fumes, and should work OK for general use. The no-clean flux is less active
than normal flux and won't work as well on oxidized surfaces, however.

At my old job we had kitchen range hoods set up over the solder pots and
vented outside the building. The only problem was that the landlord was not
happy about the holes in the wall after the company shut down the plant and
moved out.

--
-- Steve

 

[Rich Grise]

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 02:06:27 +0000, Bob Eldred wrote:

As far as Rome is concerned, the Romans did use lead pipes however the
water flowed continuously through these pipes into the many fountains,
baths and other waterworks of the city. They basically diverted streams
through their pipes and did not impound water or valve it on and off as
we do. Each Roman used upwards of several hundred thousand gallons of
water per day with water constantly flushing through the system. As a
result, there was virtually no accumulation of lead in Roman water. Lead
accumulation can occur when the volume of water is low and it sits in
contact with solder or other sources without flushing.

But then, if it wasn't lead-poisoning-induced dementia, what caused the
fall of the Roman Empire?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[phaeton]

Thankyou everyone for your responses!

I had a feeling that the risks were low, i supposed i just needed some
reassurance. :-D I'll be sure to wash my hands afterwards, etc.
Fortunately i don't smoke anymore, and i used to fire up the Marlboro
absentmindedly a lot.

I still may build a small "fume removal system" just because my bedroom
is so very small, and i think that solder fumes stink P I will build
a small manifold that sits on the windowsill (and the window closes
down on it and seals) so i don't have to worry about permanent holes or
landlord grief.

Looking at the order processing rate at Futurlec, by time my order
shows up it may be summertime anyways, where I can move out to the
garage, heh....

Thanks again..

 

[Fred Abse]

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:38:37 +0000, Bob Masta wrote:

ome lead compound added a certain sweetness

Lead acetate ("sugar of lead").


--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)

 

[John Popelish]

phaeton wrote:

In the opinion or study of this ng, how much of a concern is lead-based
solder to the health of the hobbyist in normal use and care?

Is lead-free solder more difficult to work with, or otherwise inferior
in the end-result?

Are lead-free solders expensive and/or hard to acquire? Just as toxic
(but in different ways?)

Has anyone set up any sort of a "fume hood" or other "fume removal
system" at their soldering station? (I plan on doing this with some
computer case fans, some dryer hose and maybe some PVC, but am i just
nuts?)

Thanks for the discussion.

(my opinions follow)
There is no dangerous fume given off by tin lead solder when heated
enough to produce circuit boards. The risk is from ingestion. Wash
your hands after work, before eating. Don't eat while you work. The
trend toward lead free solder is about ground water contamination in
land fills, not about worker safety.

--
John Popelish

 

[Chris]

phaeton wrote:

In the opinion or study of this ng, how much of a concern is
lead-based
solder to the health of the hobbyist in normal use and care?

Is lead-free solder more difficult to work with, or otherwise
inferior
in the end-result?

Are lead-free solders expensive and/or hard to acquire? Just as
toxic
(but in different ways?)

Has anyone set up any sort of a "fume hood" or other "fume removal
system" at their soldering station? (I plan on doing this with some
computer case fans, some dryer hose and maybe some PVC, but am i just
nuts?)

Thanks for the discussion.

If I could add a few more opinions:

Lead free solder is definitely more expensive than standard solder, and
typically harder to obtain. I've found its wetting ability to be
somewhat inferior to Sn-Pb, so it generally requires a somewhat more
aggressive flux. From a hobbyist perspective, more attention must be
paid to prepping the surface to be soldered. Properly wetted, formed
and cooled solder joints with either solder will be perfectly OK.

If you have kids or pets, be sure to solder in an area where they don't
go, or if that's not possible, make sure to keep all loose flecks of
solder contained where you can clean them up. Kids are always putting
everything in their mouth, which is exactly where you don't want solder
to go. Lead has insidious long-term effects on kids, and the
substitute metals are even more toxic.

Some people are hyper-sensitive to flux fumes, and I've heard of people
who've developed allergies after continued exposure to concentrated
fumes. From a hobbyist perspective, mounting a medium-sized (4") line
voltage fan behind your work space and having it blow away from you
should be sufficient to keep from inhaling concentrated flux fumes.
But you also don't want too much air cooling of solder joints. Too much
breeze will result in uneven cooling. It's kind of a balance between
too little airflow and too much. Putting a ventilation fan right on a
cooling solder joint is almost as bad as blowing on solder joints to
cool them (an ugly newbie mistake).

Unless you have respiratory problems, are working at this full time in
an enclosed space, or are using a particularly nasty flux, it shouldn't
be necessary for most fluxes to vent the fan exhaust to the outside.
Try just using the fan by itself and see what happens. But first go
online to read the MSDS on the flux you use. Material Safety Data
Sheets can be a PITA to keep track of, but they are pretty
straightforward about hazards and problems, and are made to be read by
intelligent people. You can download them from the manufacturers'
websites.

(On a personal note, when I solder at home, I usually use Kester "44"
63-37 eutectic tin-lead with a 4" 120VAC fan about 8" or so behind by
workspace, and no venting to the outside. Works fine for me.)

Good luck
Chris

 

[Gary Helfert]

I've found 60/40 tin/lead solder is the easiest to work with. Most of the
fumes are from the flux/rosin used. The issue of lead might be a concern if
you are soldering drinking water lines in your house. I think this is over
hyped though.

"phaeton" <blahbleh666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108742216.785617.299380@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

In the opinion or study of this ng, how much of a concern is lead-based
solder to the health of the hobbyist in normal use and care?

Is lead-free solder more difficult to work with, or otherwise inferior
in the end-result?

Are lead-free solders expensive and/or hard to acquire? Just as toxic
(but in different ways?)

Has anyone set up any sort of a "fume hood" or other "fume removal
system" at their soldering station? (I plan on doing this with some
computer case fans, some dryer hose and maybe some PVC, but am i just
nuts?)

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Robert Monsen]

Gary Helfert wrote:

I've found 60/40 tin/lead solder is the easiest to work with. Most of the
fumes are from the flux/rosin used. The issue of lead might be a concern if
you are soldering drinking water lines in your house. I think this is over
hyped though.

One theory of the demise of the romans was that they were quite fond of
lead (the word plumber comes from the latin plumbum, which means lead).
Here is a brief history.

http://www.epa.gov/history/topics/perspect/lead.htm.

Here is a fun quote:

"By the twentieth century, the U.S. had emerged as the world's leading
producer and consumer of refined lead. According to the National Academy
of Science's report on Lead in the Human Environment, the United States
was by 1980 consuming about 1.3 million tons of lead per year. This
quantity, which represents roughly 40 percent of the world's supply,
translates into a usage rate of 5,221 grams of lead per American per
annum: a rate of dependence on lead and lead-containing products nearly
ten times greater than that of the ancient Romans! According to Jerome
O. Nriagu, the world's leading authority on lead poisoning in antiquity,
the comparable Roman rate of lead usage was approximately 550 grams per
person per year."

--
Regards,
Robert Monsen

"Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis."
- Pierre Laplace (1749-1827), to Napoleon,
on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God.

 

[Bob Eldred]

"phaeton" <blahbleh666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108742216.785617.299380@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

In the opinion or study of this ng, how much of a concern is lead-based
solder to the health of the hobbyist in normal use and care?

Is lead-free solder more difficult to work with, or otherwise inferior
in the end-result?

Are lead-free solders expensive and/or hard to acquire? Just as toxic
(but in different ways?)

Has anyone set up any sort of a "fume hood" or other "fume removal
system" at their soldering station? (I plan on doing this with some
computer case fans, some dryer hose and maybe some PVC, but am i just
nuts?)

Thanks for the discussion.

The push to use unleaded solder has little to do with its toxicity to the
user. Used correctly and not eaten, it poses little risk to a person doing
the soldering. The risks associated with lead are in the disposal of
soldered boards in the millions of TV sets, computers, etc. that find their
way into land fills with the lead finding it's way into local water tables.
The use of unleaded solder is to keep lead out of the environment not to
protect you. Use any kind of solder you like for small quantity, hobby work
there is no risk to you and your impact on the environment is nill.

As far as Rome is concerned, the Romans did use lead pipes however the water
flowed continuously through these pipes into the many fountains, baths and
other waterworks of the city. They basically diverted streams through their
pipes and did not impound water or valve it on and off as we do. Each Roman
used upwards of several hundred thousand gallons of water per day with water
constantly flushing through the system. As a result, there was virtually no
accumulation of lead in Roman water. Lead accumulation can occur when the
volume of water is low and it sits in contact with solder or other sources
without flushing.
Bob

 

[Bob Masta]

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 05:03:35 GMT, Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net>
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 02:06:27 +0000, Bob Eldred wrote:

As far as Rome is concerned, the Romans did use lead pipes however the
water flowed continuously through these pipes into the many fountains,
baths and other waterworks of the city. They basically diverted streams
through their pipes and did not impound water or valve it on and off as
we do. Each Roman used upwards of several hundred thousand gallons of
water per day with water constantly flushing through the system. As a
result, there was virtually no accumulation of lead in Roman water. Lead
accumulation can occur when the volume of water is low and it sits in
contact with solder or other sources without flushing.

But then, if it wasn't lead-poisoning-induced dementia, what caused the
fall of the Roman Empire?

I vaguely recall a conjecture that lead in wine was part
of the problem. I think this might have started out with
lead being used as a seal or something, but it turned out
that some lead compound added a certain sweetness
that was preferred.

Best regards,



Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com

 

[Treeline]

"Robert Monsen" <rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote in message news:NYednaoxCrwTEorfRVn-sw@comcast.com...

Gary Helfert wrote:
I've found 60/40 tin/lead solder is the easiest to work with. Most of the
fumes are from the flux/rosin used. The issue of lead might be a concern if
you are soldering drinking water lines in your house. I think this is over
hyped though.

But 63/37 is easier if you want to better avoid cold solder joints, yes?

One theory of the demise of the romans was that they were quite fond of
lead (the word plumber comes from the latin plumbum, which means lead).
Here is a brief history.

That's great.

http://www.epa.gov/history/topics/perspect/lead.htm.

Not so great but interesting URL. Thanks.

Here is a fun quote:

"By the twentieth century, the U.S. had emerged as the world's leading
producer and consumer of refined lead. According to the National Academy
of Science's report on Lead in the Human Environment, the United States
was by 1980 consuming about 1.3 million tons of lead per year. This
quantity, which represents roughly 40 percent of the world's supply,
translates into a usage rate of 5,221 grams of lead per American per
annum: a rate of dependence on lead and lead-containing products nearly
ten times greater than that of the ancient Romans! According to Jerome
O. Nriagu, the world's leading authority on lead poisoning in antiquity,
the comparable Roman rate of lead usage was approximately 550 grams per
person per year."

So we are eating about 5,221/453 grams of lead per year, 12 pounds?

I have a computer which can operate million and billions and trillions but I cannot do this
calculation simply, grrrrr, I need to find my CALC program....... or better my $1 calculator with
big buttons.

That's not that funny and may explain the dumbing down of America, lower SAT scores, too much lead,
leads to short attention spans and so on down the tube.

They cannot mean ingestion. I looked through the article. Nah, we'd all be dumber than we are
currently.

They mean use, like in electricity. In any case, one can get a blood test.

Regards,
Robert Monsen

"Your Highness, I have no need of this hypothesis."
- Pierre Laplace (1749-1827), to Napoleon,
on why his works on celestial mechanics make no mention of God.

Good. It wasn't lead that led to the downfall of the Romans but this leading hypothesis.

 

[Bob in PHX]

the problem is lead disposal.

This is how one company does it.

http://www.recyclingtoday.com/Articles/article.asp?Id=4503

bob in phx
"phaeton" <blahbleh666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1109007549.983039.222910@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

Thankyou everyone for your responses!

I had a feeling that the risks were low, i supposed i just needed some
reassurance. :-D I'll be sure to wash my hands afterwards, etc.
Fortunately i don't smoke anymore, and i used to fire up the Marlboro
absentmindedly a lot.

I still may build a small "fume removal system" just because my bedroom
is so very small, and i think that solder fumes stink P I will build
a small manifold that sits on the windowsill (and the window closes
down on it and seals) so i don't have to worry about permanent holes or
landlord grief.

Looking at the order processing rate at Futurlec, by time my order
shows up it may be summertime anyways, where I can move out to the
garage, heh....

Thanks again..