Lead-free wire soldering?

[Chris Carlen]

Hi:

I am considering avoiding the use of lead (Pb) containing solder at
home, due to a new addition to the family (baby).

So far it seems there are a few available alloys of cored wire solder.
A lot are no-clean or water soluble fluxes, which I don't particularly
care for. RMA is what I'm used to.

Unfortunately, most melt in the 221-227C range, significantly hotter
than tin-lead. I know the manufacturing world is getting used to it. I
suppose I can as well.

I wonder how many folks are switching to lead-free for "personal use"
and have any brands/models/alloys for cored wire solder?


Thanks for input.


Good day!


--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen
crobc@bogus-remove-me.sbcglobal.net
SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

 

[Joerg]

Hello Chris,

Just curious: Do you think the baby would start taking apart your
projects? Even if you are a hardcore engineering family like ours that
would probably take another 8-10 years.

Where lead free really matters is in soldering copper pipes for drinking
water. Other than that, I'd be much more worried about stuff that is in
food or in the drinking water. When I measured the chlorine in our tap
water I was stunned. 2ppm, about what a pool has. That ain't healthy but
we filter it out. That is the kind of worries I'd have.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Bob Eldred]

"Chris Carlen" <crobc@BOGUSFIELD.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:da9uj50c2a@news2.newsguy.com...

Hi:

I am considering avoiding the use of lead (Pb) containing solder at
home, due to a new addition to the family (baby).

So far it seems there are a few available alloys of cored wire solder.
A lot are no-clean or water soluble fluxes, which I don't particularly
care for. RMA is what I'm used to.

Unfortunately, most melt in the 221-227C range, significantly hotter
than tin-lead. I know the manufacturing world is getting used to it. I
suppose I can as well.

I wonder how many folks are switching to lead-free for "personal use"
and have any brands/models/alloys for cored wire solder?


Thanks for input.

Good day!

_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen
crobc@bogus-remove-me.sbcglobal.net
SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

Why? Do you expect to feed solder to your baby? He'd be hard pressed to chew
on it without any teeth! People are all freaked out about lead which is
quite irrational. Lead was all through our environment 50 years ago and
most, if not all serious sources have been eliminated. They even made tooth
paste tubes out of it in the past. Now that might have been a worry, but
solder in an electronic device? rediculous! The biggest issue with lead in
electronics is the leaching of lead into ground water when the discarded
devices go to the land fill but not toxitity for people using solder. Leaded
solder works much better than lead free solder at lower temperatures and
does not suffer from maladys like tin pest and whisker growth that unleaded
solder can exhibit.
Bob

 

[Jim Yanik]

Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in
news:AI0ye.173$6%2.27@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

Hello Chris,

Just curious: Do you think the baby would start taking apart your
projects? Even if you are a hardcore engineering family like ours that
would probably take another 8-10 years.

Where lead free really matters is in soldering copper pipes for drinking
water. Other than that, I'd be much more worried about stuff that is in
food or in the drinking water. When I measured the chlorine in our tap
water I was stunned. 2ppm, about what a pool has. That ain't healthy but
we filter it out. That is the kind of worries I'd have.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

I believe the main worry driving lead-free electronics is about discarding
the unwanted PCBs in dumps,instead of recycling them at a higher cost.
The lead-soldered PCBs leach out lead.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[colin]

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96896ADB2EB3Ajyanikkuanet@129.250.170.85...

Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in
news:AI0ye.173$6%2.27@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

Hello Chris,

Just curious: Do you think the baby would start taking apart your
projects? Even if you are a hardcore engineering family like ours that
would probably take another 8-10 years.

Where lead free really matters is in soldering copper pipes for drinking
water. Other than that, I'd be much more worried about stuff that is in
food or in the drinking water. When I measured the chlorine in our tap
water I was stunned. 2ppm, about what a pool has. That ain't healthy but
we filter it out. That is the kind of worries I'd have.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com


I believe the main worry driving lead-free electronics is about discarding
the unwanted PCBs in dumps,instead of recycling them at a higher cost.
The lead-soldered PCBs leach out lead.

I read the problem was too that unwanted electronics tends to get
incinerated and hence may polute the atmosphere with lead. not sure how true
this is or why they wld do it.

Im not sure what they replace it with now but some of the replacements they
were considering were far more toxic than lead.

Also not sure how easy the new non lead components are going to solder with
lead solder/or vica versa.

Colin =^.^=

 

[Chris Carlen]

Joerg wrote:

Hello Chris,

Just curious: Do you think the baby would start taking apart your
projects? Even if you are a hardcore engineering family like ours that
would probably take another 8-10 years.
Where lead free really matters is in soldering copper pipes for drinking
water. Other than that, I'd be much more worried about stuff that is in
food or in the drinking water. When I measured the chlorine in our tap
water I was stunned. 2ppm, about what a pool has. That ain't healthy but
we filter it out. That is the kind of worries I'd have.

I buy water that comes from a RO plant, because Livermore, CA water
tastes lowsy.



--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen
crobc@bogus-remove-me.sbcglobal.net
SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

 

[Chris Carlen]

Chris wrote:

Congratulations, Mr. Carlen. I remember looking into this when I had
my first kid, too.

The main (and practically the sole) lead hazard for children is
ingestion of lead through the mouth. As long as you do your soldering
in a room where the baby is not permitted (most people have their
workshop in the basement), you don't have anything to worry about. I
would be more concerned with flecks of solder getting on the shop floor
and getting tracked upstairs onto the floors of the living areas. I
used to use sweeping compound in my work area. Sweeping compound
(commercially available from any hardware store) is sawdust shavings
treated with a small amount of oil to cause dust and small flecks to
adhere and get swept up easily. You also might want to put a little
more spit 'n' polish on the lab bench.

Yes, I'm concerned about droplets of solder that are likely to escape my
efforts to contain, and get on the floor. I live in an apartment so
don't have the luxury of a basement workshop.

Look into the possibility of lead in the interior wall paint, any paint
on the baby's crib, and also any china you might have in the cabinets.
These are the major sources of lead poisoning for children in the home.
At-home test kits are again available at the hardware store.

China?

Besides, doing manual work with lead free is a pain.

I was hoping that wasn't the case.

Take your time, certainly do your best, but also enjoy the ride. You
have no idea how quickly it ends.

Thanks!


--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen
crobc@bogus-remove-me.sbcglobal.net
SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

 

[Joerg]

Hello Chris,

I buy water that comes from a RO plant, because Livermore, CA water
tastes lowsy.

Whenever I had to be in Pleasanton I made sure I carried a few bottles
with me. Some people made fun when I carried a little cooler into the
meeting room. Out here in the foothills east of Sacramento chlorine is
the main problem but our filter takes care of it. Even the dogs will
only get filtered water.

With a baby I'd be more worried about toys. When I was in my diapers
most were made from wood but nowadays it's mostly plastic and who knows
where that came from or what is in it.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[maxfoo]

Just be aware of tin whisker growth that can cause components to short.

 

[Joerg]

Hello Chris,

In an apartment, your best bet might be to get a largish parts pan with
one side cut off for access, and then set the pan on the stove (burners
off, of course) and use the stove hood for ventilation. Careful
soldering technique, followed by removing the pan carefully from the
stove, and then wiping down the stove and then the pan religiously
might work out OK.

That can present another problem. The fridge is going to be awfully
close and it has all the good stuff in there ;-)

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Chris Carlen]

Chris wrote:

In an apartment, your best bet might be to get a largish parts pan with
one side cut off for access, and then set the pan on the stove (burners
off, of course) and use the stove hood for ventilation. Careful
soldering technique, followed by removing the pan carefully from the
stove, and then wiping down the stove and then the pan religiously
might work out OK.

Well the pan is a good idea, but doing it in the kitchen I think I will
avoid. (Hmm, that could be interpreted in various ways.)

Perhaps what is a reasonable approach, and what I have been leaning
toward is to use a shallow pan on my workbench. Take care to keep
things contained. Keep the place ventilated while soldering. And clean
up well afterward.

When I was a kid I got solder everywhere. That is rarely the case now.

The particulates in RMA flux fumes can be an irritant, and might cause
breathing problems or allergies for little ones. Depending on your
hood fan draw, most to nearly all of the fumes should be pulled
outside.

The lead itself in solder doesn't produce significant fumes below 900F,
but it's still possible it might be a bit of a problem in a living
area, even with a cool iron.

On a related note, I was recently tested for blood concentration of
heavy metals. I was particularly curious about lead since either at
home or at work I have never used a fume extractor. It turns out I had
barely detectable Pb, Hg, Cd, Ag, and a moderate amount of As within the
normal range but relatively higher in its range than the other metals.
Didn't get Tl or Be though.

So who's trying to do me in with the As? I think it came from eating a
lot of nuts.

The thing is, the fumes from other fluxes have problems of their own.
Most of them are far worse than RMA flux fumes. The bismuth, indium
and antimony in lead frees aren't any better for you or the kid than
the lead.

I think that lead is at least a couple orders of magnitude more toxic
than Bi, In, or Sb. Tin-antimony solder is in fact the solder that is
now approved for potable water plumbing service. It's only 5% Sb though.


Thanks for the input.

Good day!


--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen
crobc@bogus-remove-me.sbcglobal.net
SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

 

[Pooh Bear]

Chris wrote:

Besides, doing manual work with lead free is a pain.

Try re-phrasing that as " lead free is a pain - period ".

I just discovered that there a couple of areas that have managed to get
exemption from the impending ( in 1 year ) European Directive.

Namely networking equipment, servers and telecoms IIRC.

I think they managed to convince the authorities that going lead free would
impact equipment reliability so badly that it wasn't acceptable. Interesting
that. No surprise. So it doesn't apply to them since they're considereed
'important' !

Graham

 

[Boris Mohar]

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 02:10:48 +0100, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Chris wrote:

Besides, doing manual work with lead free is a pain.

Try re-phrasing that as " lead free is a pain - period ".

I just discovered that there a couple of areas that have managed to get
exemption from the impending ( in 1 year ) European Directive.

Namely networking equipment, servers and telecoms IIRC.

I think they managed to convince the authorities that going lead free would
impact equipment reliability so badly that it wasn't acceptable. Interesting
that. No surprise. So it doesn't apply to them since they're considereed
'important' !

Graham

I guess pacemakers don't count.



Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca

 

[keith]

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:45:21 -0700, Chris Carlen wrote:

Joerg wrote:
Hello Chris,

Just curious: Do you think the baby would start taking apart your
projects? Even if you are a hardcore engineering family like ours that
would probably take another 8-10 years.
Where lead free really matters is in soldering copper pipes for drinking
water. Other than that, I'd be much more worried about stuff that is in
food or in the drinking water. When I measured the chlorine in our tap
water I was stunned. 2ppm, about what a pool has. That ain't healthy but
we filter it out. That is the kind of worries I'd have.

I buy water that comes from a RO plant, because Livermore, CA water
tastes lowsy.

Why not RO it yourself? Me? I love the taste of the water here (from
the not-so-great lake), once the chlorene is dealt with (filter or
refrigeration for a half-day). I've been places where I'd rather brush
my teeth with Billy-beer though.

--
Keith

 

[Chris Carlen]

larwe@larwe.com wrote:

the main problem but our filter takes care of it. Even the dogs will
only get filtered water.

Beware - filtering water also removes fluoride. This is especially
dangerous for children. Fluoride's most powerful long-term effect is
absorption into the permanent teeth before they displace the deciduous
teeth. Filtering the fluoride out of your water will significantly
affect your childrens' dental health.

Interesting. Thanks for bringing that up. I wonder if a fluoridation
argument will now ensue...



--
_____________________
Christopher R. Carlen
crobc@bogus-remove-me.sbcglobal.net
SuSE 9.1 Linux 2.6.5

 

[Joerg]

Hello Lewin,

Beware - filtering water also removes fluoride. This is especially
dangerous for children. Fluoride's most powerful long-term effect is
absorption into the permanent teeth before they displace the deciduous
teeth. Filtering the fluoride out of your water will significantly
affect your childrens' dental health.

Yes. But I believe it's up to each individual to take care of things
like that. Tooth paste can substitute the missing fluoride. Now you just
have to get the children to be diligent about brushing but that's all a
matter of training.

I'd rather supplement my own fluoride and not be exposed to 2ppm of
chlorine in the water that I drink.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Chris Carlen]

larwe@larwe.com wrote:

Yes. But I believe it's up to each individual to take care of things
like that. Tooth paste can substitute the missing fluoride. Now you just

No it can't. Dentifrice is designed to be a topical product. You're not
meant to swallow it and the directions specifically tell you to avoid
that.

The incidence of caries in permanent teeth is significantly reduced by
_absorbed_ fluoride being built into the enamel while the teeth are
still below the gumline - i.e. out of reach of toothpaste. So if you
filter out the fluoride in your water supply, you must provide your
children with a daily supplement tablet as well as brushing with a good
fluoride toothpaste.

Once the teeth are fully grown and erupted, ingested fluoride has
little or no value at which point fluoride-bearing mouthwashes and
toothpaste are the best preventive measure (swallowed supplements will
not help an adult).

Here's some fun reading:


http://www.newstarget.com/006772.html


--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarleRemoveThis@BOGUSsandia.gov
NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and "BOGUS" from email address to reply.

 

[Joerg]

Hello Lewin,

Once the teeth are fully grown and erupted, ingested fluoride has
little or no value at which point fluoride-bearing mouthwashes and
toothpaste are the best preventive measure (swallowed supplements will
not help an adult).

Well, we don't have children in the house so I guess the fluoride thing
is water under the bridge for us. I like that word "erupted". Reminds me
of one of my wisdom teeth a while ago.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Hello Graham,

I just discovered that there a couple of areas that have managed to get
exemption from the impending ( in 1 year ) European Directive.

Namely networking equipment, servers and telecoms IIRC.

So IOW if you'd mount an RJ45 on a new designs for, say, a stereo it
would also be exempt because it now has a network capability?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

 

[Joerg]

Hello Lewin,

Now just imagine a regular consumer. How is he or she to distinguish
between justified alerts and quacks on one side, scientific evidence for
or against a suggested treatment such as fluoridization on the other?

My take in this case is to stick to the old values. Teach the kids to
brush diligently and stay away from the bad stuff. Sodas, burgers, candy
bars and so on. Mankind can live without these.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com