Laser printer draws current in a spike, what for?

D

~Dude17~

Guest
X-No-Archive: Yes

I've got a laser printer that draws current in spikes and it
makes the lights flicker as well as causing a UPS on the same circuit
to switch over to battery due to excessive dV/dT. Unfortunately, I
don't have a way of putting the printer on its own circuit unless I
want to use a long extension cord.

When it's in sleep state, it draws about 0.22A. When I print
something, it draws about 8A RMS to heat up. After it's done
printing, it stays in "ready to print" state for about ten minutes
before going to sleep and this is where problem starts.

Had the printer for a while, but I finally bothered to check it out on
scope.

I captured the event on my storage oscilloscope and this is what I
found:

At the start of cycle it draws 26A RMS for about 32mS or two cycles
and tapers down to 8.5A RMS after 550mS. Between the start and 550mS,
there's two spikes of about 8mS where current is only drawn from half
of the cycle. After 550mS, the current draw drops to 0.22A RMS, then
starts this whole cycle again after 15 seconds.

If you're a visual type of person, here's the actual capture:
http://dude17site.tripod.com/printer.html

Is there a reason it needs to draw current in this pattern instead of
spreading it out over a longer period of time?
 
dude17@sacbeemail.com (~Dude17~) wrote in
news:b959931f.0408290758.2592a92d@posting.google.com:

http://dude17site.tripod.com/printer.html
Click to expand...


I suspect it may be the heating coils.

--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email
 
In article <b959931f.0408290758.2592a92d@posting.google.com>, ~Dude17~
<dude17@sacbeemail.com> wrote:

X-No-Archive: Yes

I've got a laser printer that draws current in spikes and it
makes the lights flicker as well as causing a UPS on the same circuit
to switch over to battery due to excessive dV/dT. Unfortunately, I
don't have a way of putting the printer on its own circuit unless I
want to use a long extension cord.

When it's in sleep state, it draws about 0.22A. When I print
something, it draws about 8A RMS to heat up. After it's done
printing, it stays in "ready to print" state for about ten minutes
before going to sleep and this is where problem starts.
Click to expand...
<snip>

heater for the fuser assembly. On the first couple of generations of
laser printers, they didn't even bother to use a zero-crossing switch,
and that really made the lights flicker!

--
Namaste--
 
On 29 Aug 2004 08:58:37 -0700, dude17@sacbeemail.com (~Dude17~) wrote:

X-No-Archive: Yes

I've got a laser printer that draws current in spikes and it
makes the lights flicker as well as causing a UPS on the same circuit
to switch over to battery due to excessive dV/dT. Unfortunately, I
don't have a way of putting the printer on its own circuit unless I
want to use a long extension cord.

When it's in sleep state, it draws about 0.22A. When I print
something, it draws about 8A RMS to heat up. After it's done
printing, it stays in "ready to print" state for about ten minutes
before going to sleep and this is where problem starts.

Had the printer for a while, but I finally bothered to check it out on
scope.

I captured the event on my storage oscilloscope and this is what I
found:

At the start of cycle it draws 26A RMS for about 32mS or two cycles
and tapers down to 8.5A RMS after 550mS. Between the start and 550mS,
there's two spikes of about 8mS where current is only drawn from half
of the cycle. After 550mS, the current draw drops to 0.22A RMS, then
starts this whole cycle again after 15 seconds.

If you're a visual type of person, here's the actual capture:
http://dude17site.tripod.com/printer.html

Is there a reason it needs to draw current in this pattern instead of
spreading it out over a longer period of time?
Click to expand...
it's the heating element for the fuser, maybe a halogen lamp element
inside the fuser cylinder. You're seeing a resistive current draw from
the 60 Hz mains that tapers off as the element heats up and increases
resistance. Your 26 amp initial draw is reasonable for a cold
(relatively) element resistance of around 5 ohms.

The steady state value it's approaching is around 8 A, as you've
described, as it reaches operating temperature. There's probably a
bang-bang thermostat that pokes the heater when it has gotten too cold
and runs the element until it reaches the other setpoint.

Absent reprogramming the temperature controls (probably do-able, esp if
you could dig up the tech manual) the best bet is just to turn it off
when not in use.

WRT the "drop out" cycles every 200 msec or so. Guessing but *maybe*
they measure the temperature as a function of element resistance (saves
the cost of a separate sensor) and are not triggering the heater during
those half-cycles in order to measure the filament resistance (with an
RC to a comparator and a timer?).

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
 
In sci.electronics.design Rich Webb <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:
On 29 Aug 2004 08:58:37 -0700, dude17@sacbeemail.com (~Dude17~) wrote:

X-No-Archive: Yes

I've got a laser printer that draws current in spikes and it
makes the lights flicker as well as causing a UPS on the same circuit
to switch over to battery due to excessive dV/dT. Unfortunately, I
don't have a way of putting the printer on its own circuit unless I
want to use a long extension cord.
snip
At the start of cycle it draws 26A RMS for about 32mS or two cycles
and tapers down to 8.5A RMS after 550mS. Between the start and 550mS,
there's two spikes of about 8mS where current is only drawn from half
of the cycle. After 550mS, the current draw drops to 0.22A RMS, then
starts this whole cycle again after 15 seconds.
snip
it's the heating element for the fuser, maybe a halogen lamp element
inside the fuser cylinder. You're seeing a resistive current draw from
the 60 Hz mains that tapers off as the element heats up and increases
resistance. Your 26 amp initial draw is reasonable for a cold
(relatively) element resistance of around 5 ohms.
Click to expand...
One 'easy' way might be to find an appropriate NTC thermistor, and put
it in series with the lamp.

Maybe several small ones for their lower thermal mass.
 
Let me guess... it's a LaserJet 4 or 5. It's keeping itself warmed up,
using heating coils.

We have moved to newer printers because the old ones were drawing so much
current they would disturb computers on the same circuit.
 
On 29 Aug 2004 20:01:00 GMT, Ian Stirling <root@mauve.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

it's the heating element for the fuser, maybe a halogen lamp element
inside the fuser cylinder. You're seeing a resistive current draw from
the 60 Hz mains that tapers off as the element heats up and increases
resistance. Your 26 amp initial draw is reasonable for a cold
(relatively) element resistance of around 5 ohms.

One 'easy' way might be to find an appropriate NTC thermistor, and put
it in series with the lamp.
Click to expand...
would blow it; mine halogen lamp element inside the fuser cylinder has
400W ...
--
Regards, SPAJKY ÂŽ
& visit my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
"Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"
E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##
 
~Dude17~ wrote:

X-No-Archive: Yes

I've got a laser printer that draws current in spikes and it
makes the lights flicker as well as causing a UPS on the same circuit
to switch over to battery due to excessive dV/dT. Unfortunately, I
don't have a way of putting the printer on its own circuit unless I
want to use a long extension cord.
Click to expand...

I have a Brother HL-1470N, at home, which exhibits the same symptoms.

I too was thinking of posting about this. I am trying to figure out
what to do about this. In my case, I simply moved it off of the UPS,
but the lights flickering is still undesirable.

Is there anything I can actually do about this?
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that Anthony Guzzi
<dukeofurl@sonic.net> wrote (in <maBYc.11003$54.150804@typhoon.sonic.net
) about 'Laser printer draws current in a spike, what for?', on Mon, 30
Aug 2004:
~Dude17~ wrote:

X-No-Archive: Yes

I've got a laser printer that draws current in spikes and it
makes the lights flicker as well as causing a UPS on the same circuit
to switch over to battery due to excessive dV/dT. Unfortunately, I
don't have a way of putting the printer on its own circuit unless I
want to use a long extension cord.


I have a Brother HL-1470N, at home, which exhibits the same symptoms.

I too was thinking of posting about this. I am trying to figure out
what to do about this. In my case, I simply moved it off of the UPS,
but the lights flickering is still undesirable.

Is there anything I can actually do about this?
Click to expand...
You definitely did the right thing in moving it off the UPS. There is no
justification, normally, for running a printer off a UPS, and, as you
see, it is a very stressful load which could adversely affect the UPS
life or reliability.

A laser printer sold in Europe must conform to EN 61000-3-2 and -3. The
former is concerned (indirectly) with limiting the peak pulse current,
cycle by cycle, while the latter is concerned with limiting flicker. But
you'd need to run it from 240 V - either directly or with 120:240
transformer. The frequency doesn't matter.

According to US sources, problems such as you report never occur, and
they don't need to implement the IEC versions of those ENs as US
standards. So you are actually just imagining the flicker. (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
"~Dude17~" <dude17@sacbeemail.com> wrote in message
news:b959931f.0408290758.2592a92d@posting.google.com...
X-No-Archive: Yes

I've got a laser printer that draws current in spikes and it
makes the lights flicker as well as causing a UPS on the same circuit
to switch over to battery due to excessive dV/dT. Unfortunately, I
don't have a way of putting the printer on its own circuit unless I
want to use a long extension cord.

When it's in sleep state, it draws about 0.22A. When I print
something, it draws about 8A RMS to heat up. After it's done
printing, it stays in "ready to print" state for about ten minutes
before going to sleep and this is where problem starts.

Had the printer for a while, but I finally bothered to check it out on
scope.

I captured the event on my storage oscilloscope and this is what I
found:

At the start of cycle it draws 26A RMS for about 32mS or two cycles
and tapers down to 8.5A RMS after 550mS. Between the start and 550mS,
there's two spikes of about 8mS where current is only drawn from half
of the cycle. After 550mS, the current draw drops to 0.22A RMS, then
starts this whole cycle again after 15 seconds.

If you're a visual type of person, here's the actual capture:
http://dude17site.tripod.com/printer.html

Is there a reason it needs to draw current in this pattern instead of
spreading it out over a longer period of time?
Click to expand...
Might be interesting if you told us what Brand/model printer you are
complaining about.

Was a know fact in early laser printers.
--
John G

Wot's Your Real Problem?
 
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:34:55 +0100, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:


A laser printer sold in Europe must conform to EN 61000-3-2 and -3. The
former is concerned (indirectly) with limiting the peak pulse current,
cycle by cycle, while the latter is concerned with limiting flicker. But
you'd need to run it from 240 V - either directly or with 120:240
transformer. The frequency doesn't matter.

According to US sources, problems such as you report never occur, and
they don't need to implement the IEC versions of those ENs as US
standards. So you are actually just imagining the flicker. (;-)
--
Click to expand...
I've got a Brother HL-1440 that also causes me to imagine the
lights are flickering. ;-)


Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
 
Bob Masta wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:34:55 +0100, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:


A laser printer sold in Europe must conform to EN 61000-3-2 and -3. The
former is concerned (indirectly) with limiting the peak pulse current,
cycle by cycle, while the latter is concerned with limiting flicker. But
you'd need to run it from 240 V - either directly or with 120:240
transformer. The frequency doesn't matter.

According to US sources, problems such as you report never occur, and
they don't need to implement the IEC versions of those ENs as US
standards. So you are actually just imagining the flicker. (;-)
--

I've got a Brother HL-1440 that also causes me to imagine the
lights are flickering. ;-)

Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Click to expand...

My NEC Superscript 860 has the same effect on my imagination!

Dave
 
What you're seeing, is the cycling of the heater for the fusing roller.
This roller melts the toner into the paper.
Without it, your print would simply blow away.
It's integral to the operation of the printer.. Just don't put it behind
your ups. There's really no need anyway, if the power goes out, then just
restart the print later.
--
KC6ETE Dave's Engineering Page, www.dvanhorn.org
Microcontroller Consultant, specializing in Atmel AVR
 
In article <MMyWVDBvauMBFw+u@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> writes:
According to US sources, problems such as you report never occur, and
they don't need to implement the IEC versions of those ENs as US
standards. So you are actually just imagining the flicker. (;-)
Click to expand...
The irony is this is quite common in the US, but I've never seen
it happening in a 240V country ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel
Consultant Software Engineer
 
In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel <andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:

| In article <MMyWVDBvauMBFw+u@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
| John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> writes:
|> According to US sources, problems such as you report never occur, and
|> they don't need to implement the IEC versions of those ENs as US
|> standards. So you are actually just imagining the flicker. (;-)
|
| The irony is this is quite common in the US, but I've never seen
| it happening in a 240V country ;-)

We do have 240 volts. The problem is that we also have the NFPA that
publishes the NEC which in 210.6(A)(2) restricts the voltage for cord
and plug equipment to a maximum of 120 volts relative to ground, thus
disallowing the use of the 240 volt connection for the typical laser
printer. Of course one might get around this if they say it is a 26A
load instead of a 8A (relative to 120 volts).

I guess I should put this in the "favorite beef with the NEC" thread.

I don't know that this would affect it all that much, but I've also
heard that in UK, available fault current at homes tends to be higher
than in the US (one transformer serving a whole block of homes instead
of the typical 1 to 4 in the US). I'm not sure I'd really like having
higher available fault current.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Howard KA9WGN | http://linuxhomepage.com/ http://ham.org/ |
| (first name) at ipal.net | http://phil.ipal.org/ http://ka9wgn.ham.org/ |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article <MMyWVDBvauMBFw+u@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> writes:
According to US sources, problems such as you report never occur, and
they don't need to implement the IEC versions of those ENs as US
standards. So you are actually just imagining the flicker. (;-)

The irony is this is quite common in the US, but I've never seen
it happening in a 240V country ;-)
Click to expand...
Well... obviously the current is halved, but...

A laser printer that dims the lights???? Jus how common is
that, really?

--
FloydL. Davidson <http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd@barrow.com
 
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:03:06 -0800, the renowned floyd@barrow.com
(Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:

Well... obviously the current is halved, but...

A laser printer that dims the lights???? Jus how common is
that, really?
Click to expand...
I've seen it (NEC Silentwriter LC890). It's just a flicker- the
problem is that the flicker is repetitive with the control of the
fusion roller temperature and continued as long as the printer was
switched on. My modern HP doesn't appear to do anything like that.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
X-No-Archive: Yes

Anthony Guzzi <dukeofurl@sonic.net> wrote in message news:<maBYc.11003$54.150804@typhoon.sonic.net>...

I have a Brother HL-1470N, at home, which exhibits the same symptoms.

I too was thinking of posting about this. I am trying to figure out
what to do about this. In my case, I simply moved it off of the UPS,
but the lights flickering is still undesirable.

Is there anything I can actually do about this?
Click to expand...
hahahahahahahaha

me three. Mine's a BROTHER too. Brother DCP-1200 Scanner/Printer
combo and it's not that old. Perhaps Brother's got an issue with
their heater drive algorithm. It's ok if it's held on and caused a
flicker every once in a while.

To the people who pointed out it's the heating element, I'm aware what
the power is used for. My question was what the logical reason is for
pulling current in the pattern my printer does.

I don't plug my laser printer into my UPS and only stupid users plugs
one into an under the desk sized UPS. What I'm saying is Irise(dI/dT)
is extremely fast. This in turn causes a line drop at high dV/dT. My
UPS, which is on the same branch circuit transfers to battery every
time the printer pulls a surge current.

UPS circuit transfers to battery in prediction of upcoming serious
power problem not because the voltage drops too much, but rate of
change of voltage (dV/dT) is excessive. When the cause of transfer
information is extracted from UPS, it reports as "R", which means
unacceptable rate of voltage change on APC UPS.

What did I do? I put the UPS on a different branch circuit with an
extension cable and changed the ballast in light fixture to one
equipped with an active PFC.

You might ask why active PFC ballast. The power factor controller IC
is actively monitoring AC phase and DC bus voltage and it creates a
near unity power factor as well as maintain a steady voltage on the DC
bus. The controller samples the AC many times a cycle(In hundreds of
KHz range) which is a must to correct power factor. The controller
compensates for voltage dip and drives the MOSFET accordingly to
maintain a steady DC bus voltage. Steady DC bus ensures flicker free
lamp operation.

For us home users, "just put the printer on a dedicated circuit" isn't
really an option.
 
In sci.electronics.design Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogdotyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:03:06 -0800, the renowned floyd@barrow.com
(Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:

Well... obviously the current is halved, but...

A laser printer that dims the lights???? Jus how common is
that, really?

I've seen it (NEC Silentwriter LC890). It's just a flicker- the
problem is that the flicker is repetitive with the control of the
fusion roller temperature and continued as long as the printer was
switched on. My modern HP doesn't appear to do anything like that.
Click to expand...
I wonder how often 4 or 5 printers on one circuit might cause the
fuse to pop, if "idle".
 
I read in sci.electronics.design that phil-news-nospam@ipal.net wrote
(in <cgvv6622lj3@news1.newsguy.com>) about 'Laser printer draws current
in a spike, what for?', on Mon, 30 Aug 2004:

I don't know that this would affect it all that much, but I've also
heard that in UK, available fault current at homes tends to be higher
than in the US (one transformer serving a whole block of homes instead
of the typical 1 to 4 in the US). I'm not sure I'd really like having
higher available fault current.
Click to expand...
The transformer impedance is lower but the cables add impedance (mostly
inductance unless they are buried coaxials). The typical fault currents
in UK and US are not a lot different, i.e. in USA the impedance of a 120
V supply is about half that of a European 230 V supply. But note
'typical'. There is a lot of variation.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
 
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