Laptop Keyboard Backlight Colors

[Rick C]

I'm looking at buying a new laptop and mostly I'm looking at the gaming models because they have proper keyboards with full size arrow keys among others. One model I looked at had full height arrow keys, but the arrow keys along with the entire numeric keypad are 2/3 width... lol

This is in a 17 inch display unit, so no need to cramp the keyboard. They just leave over an inch on the sides.

Anyone see 17 inch laptops without the squished keys?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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[Rick C]

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 6:08:44 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

I'm looking at buying a new laptop and mostly I'm looking at the gaming models because they have proper keyboards with full size arrow keys among others. One model I looked at had full height arrow keys, but the arrow keys along with the entire numeric keypad are 2/3 width... lol

This is in a 17 inch display unit, so no need to cramp the keyboard. They just leave over an inch on the sides.

Anyone see 17 inch laptops without the squished keys?

Oh yeah, one I found, the HP Omen Laptop - 17t with a red keyboard backlight that would bug me. Support doesn't even understand what I'm asking about.. Anyone know if the backlight colors can be changed? The gaming machines I've seen use RGB LEDs and can provide any color backlight you want.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:08:40 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

>Anyone see 17 inch laptops without the squished keys?

Search for 17 inch laptops with a mechanical keyboard.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=17+inch+laptop+mechanical+keyboard>
For example:
<https://us.msi.com/Laptop/GT75VR-Titan.html>
"MSI GT75VR: A powerful laptop with a mechanical keyboard and a
17.3-inch screen"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRt5MzAQAWw>

While not as low profile as the all too common paper thin rubber dome
type laptop keyboards, mechanical keyboards are fairly tall. Look for
those with Cherry MX series switches:
<https://lifehacker.com/how-to-choose-the-best-mechanical-keyboard-and-why-you-511140347>

On YouTube, Linux Tech Tips has quite a bit on gaming keyboards and
gaming laptops. Try:
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=linus+tech+tips+mechanical+keyboard+laptop+17+inch>

Why Mechanical Keyboards Are Superior
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezpu1c7rXfk>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:11:33 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh yeah, one I found, the HP Omen Laptop - 17t with a red keyboard backlight
that would bug me. Support doesn't even understand what I'm asking about.
Anyone know if the backlight colors can be changed? The gaming machines I've
seen use RGB LEDs and can provide any color backlight you want.

Maybe. Omen laptops come with the "Omen Command Center". Here's how
it works:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxAtryW3Dw>
<https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c05387497>
The problem is that neither the documentations or videos show an
example colors other than red. The docs talk about "static color and
"color loop" but show no examples. From this description, I could
assume that it can do colors, but without an example, I'm rather
worried about what HP might be trying to hide.

Ah... here's two 15" Omen videos which actually display colors other
than red. There is hope:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdomXqzi3Lk>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_utg9563JU>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[bitrex]

On 9/12/19 6:11 PM, Rick C wrote:

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 6:08:44 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:
I'm looking at buying a new laptop and mostly I'm looking at the gaming models because they have proper keyboards with full size arrow keys among others. One model I looked at had full height arrow keys, but the arrow keys along with the entire numeric keypad are 2/3 width... lol

This is in a 17 inch display unit, so no need to cramp the keyboard. They just leave over an inch on the sides.

Anyone see 17 inch laptops without the squished keys?

Oh yeah, one I found, the HP Omen Laptop - 17t with a red keyboard backlight that would bug me. Support doesn't even understand what I'm asking about. Anyone know if the backlight colors can be changed? The gaming machines I've seen use RGB LEDs and can provide any color backlight you want.

A number of laptop models don't come with the backlight keys stock, but
still have the backlight header on the mobo so you can even swap in an
aftermarket backlit keyboard on some models that don't even come with 'em

 

[Rick C]

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 11:05:10 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:11:33 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh yeah, one I found, the HP Omen Laptop - 17t with a red keyboard backlight
that would bug me. Support doesn't even understand what I'm asking about.
Anyone know if the backlight colors can be changed? The gaming machines I've
seen use RGB LEDs and can provide any color backlight you want.

Maybe. Omen laptops come with the "Omen Command Center". Here's how
it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxAtryW3Dw
https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c05387497
The problem is that neither the documentations or videos show an
example colors other than red. The docs talk about "static color and
"color loop" but show no examples. From this description, I could
assume that it can do colors, but without an example, I'm rather
worried about what HP might be trying to hide.

Ah... here's two 15" Omen videos which actually display colors other
than red. There is hope:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdomXqzi3Lk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_utg9563JU

Thanks for the info. They make a version of the OMEN that has other than red color, but the price starts to get away from me. I'm not looking to spend a couple of kilobucks.

I found one that might do the job from MSI at an affordable price. GL73 9RCX-029

Not sure if the keyboard colors can be changed. Also don't know how much memory it will hold or if it will take a SATA drive (comes with 256GB NVMe drive. It is also a bear, actually larger than my present Dell Precision M6800 which barely fits in my laptop bag.

Oh, I won't be buying an Omen. Chat actually hung up on my because it was so hard for them to get answers. MSI doesn't seem to have chat so I emailed them. While the keys are full height, they cut the width on the numeric keypad. The function keys have been cut in height for some time now, so the four keys across the top of the numeric keypad are small in both directions, lol! They also cut the size (or placement) of the spacebar by putting a second backslash key next to it.

All this because I want a keyboard with actual keys.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 9/12/19 6:08 PM, Rick C wrote:

I'm looking at buying a new laptop and mostly I'm looking at the gaming models because they have proper keyboards with full size arrow keys among others. One model I looked at had full height arrow keys, but the arrow keys along with the entire numeric keypad are 2/3 width... lol

This is in a 17 inch display unit, so no need to cramp the keyboard. They just leave over an inch on the sides.

Anyone see 17 inch laptops without the squished keys?

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 9:53:56 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 10:00:04 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

All this because I want a keyboard with actual keys.

Yeah, I just got a few Bluetooth full-size sculpted key keyboards, and
consider them the universal solution for laptops, tablets, or desktops.
It's a bit of a nuisance, though, they all look alike but are linked to different
machines...

For small-screen laptops, bluetooth keypads (Microsoft, for one)
beat the top-row number keys all hollow.

I would consider a detached keyboard, but my laptop is truly a portable device and I already find dragging out a mouse inconvenient. A keyboard would be over the top.

BTW, my mouse has dual operation and I find the bluetooth mode to be a bit laggy. I guess that's just not an issue with a keyboard so much. Do you also use a bluetooth mouse? Any issues with "feel"?

I haven't heard back from MSI. I'm starting to think it will be when they feel like it. I don't see much indication they actually interact with the public. They don't sell direct and have no chat.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[whit3rd]

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 10:00:04 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

> All this because I want a keyboard with actual keys.

Yeah, I just got a few Bluetooth full-size sculpted key keyboards, and
consider them the universal solution for laptops, tablets, or desktops.
It's a bit of a nuisance, though, they all look alike but are linked to different
machines...

For small-screen laptops, bluetooth keypads (Microsoft, for one)
beat the top-row number keys all hollow.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 21:59:59 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

I found one that might do the job from MSI at an
affordable price. GL73 9RCX-029

About $1,000. Play with the options to what they cost:
<https://www.newegg.com/black-msi-gl-series-gl73-9sc-027-gaming-entertainment/p/N82E16834155242>

>Not sure if the keyboard colors can be changed.

Look at the photos on the Newegg page. The 4th photo show RGB and
red-only keyboards. The Newegg page doesn't offer an RGB keyboard
option and does not indicate if the prices are for red-only or RGB.

> Also don't know how much memory it will hold

The options offered by Newegg at 8 and 16GB RAM. This page covers
most of the GL73 mutations:
<https://us.msi.com/Laptop/GL73-9SX-GTX/Specification>
Looks like 8GB and 16GB are the only options.

> or if it will take a SATA drive (comes with 256GB NVMe drive).

Nope. The above GL732 chart only shows MVMe for HDD interface.

It is also a bear, actually larger than my present Dell Precision
M6800 which barely fits in my laptop bag.

You want the biggest screen available in a laptop and now you complain
that it's too big and heavy? Perhaps this would be a good time to
limit your expectations.

Incidentally, I just ordered a Dell Precision M6800 laptop for a
customer doing CNC programming. Except for the CPU, it's maxed out
(two 500GB SATA drives, 32GB RAM, Win 7, etc). About $550.

Oh, I won't be buying an Omen. Chat actually hung up on my because
it was so hard for them to get answers. MSI doesn't seem to have
chat so I emailed them.

You can get better answers from Google or the vendors support Forums.
Those also give you the benefit of knowing what users are having
problems with. If I want real data, the very last people I would ask
are the factory sales people, who are mostly accustomed to dealing
with dealers.

While the keys are full height, they cut the width on the numeric
keypad. The function keys have been cut in height for some time
now, so the four keys across the top of the numeric keypad are
small in both directions, lol! They also cut the size (or placement)
of the spacebar by putting a second backslash key next to it.

There was a web pile I found a few weeks ago that showed various
keyboards on a properly scaled grid. It's good for comparing
keyboards. I'll see if I can find it again.

>All this because I want a keyboard with actual keys.

That's also what all the gamers want. I suggest hanging around the
gamers forums and web sites to see what they are buying. Please note
that their standard of excellence is the "feel" of the keys and their
response time. In gaming, a fraction of a millisecond faster on
firing the machine gun is the difference between winning or losing.

Cherry MX series mechanical keys:
Red: low-noise switches deliver a more linear keypress
for rapid-fire actuation.
Brown: low-noise switches that have a tactile bump for
feedback with every keypress.
Blue: “clicky” tactile switches that are optimized for
rapid command entry.

If you got into computing during the early 1980's perhaps a dash of
IBM buckling spring keyboard nostalgia:
<https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UltraClassic>

That's also why you'll find more TN LCD displays on gaming laptops
than IPS. TN has a faster response time, even though some look awful.

Another place to hang out are with those rugged individuals that do
CAD on a laptop. Some are 17" displays and unlike the gamers, they
don't care much about "feel", RGB, kbd latency, or display latency.

8 Best Laptops for AutoCad, 3D Modeling, and other CAD Works.
<https://www.it4nextgen.com/best-laptops-for-autocad-3d-modelling/>
Hmmm... none of these seem to have mechanical keys, but I'm not sure.
You get to dig through the specs and try to find out. I'm lazy tonite
(too hot).


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[whit3rd]

On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 7:24:27 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 9:53:56 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 10:00:04 PM UTC-7, Rick C wrote:

All this because I want a keyboard with actual keys.

Yeah, I just got a few Bluetooth full-size sculpted key keyboards, and
consider them the universal solution for laptops, tablets, or desktops.

BTW, my mouse has dual operation and I find the bluetooth mode to be a bit laggy. I guess that's just not an issue with a keyboard so much. Do you also use a bluetooth mouse? Any issues with "feel"?

I've enjoyed tablet operation for some things, and occasionally use a Bluetooth
trackpad; can relocate from the desk to an easy chair that way. The 'feel' is terrible,
though, you really HAVE to have eye contact with the screen at all times. And, the
'tap' function has been selecting things because of random hand contact,
so I end up looking at a lot of advertising that I didn't intend to click on.

Another good laptop control option would be a trackball, but that's kinda... exotic.

A big laptop screen, though, can sit across the table during breakfast, because with
a wireless mouse/pad/trackball you can use it without reaching over
the food to get at the buttons.

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 11:06:10 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 21:59:59 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

I found one that might do the job from MSI at an
affordable price. GL73 9RCX-029

About $1,000. Play with the options to what they cost:
https://www.newegg.com/black-msi-gl-series-gl73-9sc-027-gaming-entertainment/p/N82E16834155242

Not sure if the keyboard colors can be changed.

Look at the photos on the Newegg page. The 4th photo show RGB and
red-only keyboards. The Newegg page doesn't offer an RGB keyboard
option and does not indicate if the prices are for red-only or RGB.

Exactly.

Also don't know how much memory it will hold

The options offered by Newegg at 8 and 16GB RAM. This page covers
most of the GL73 mutations:
https://us.msi.com/Laptop/GL73-9SX-GTX/Specification
Looks like 8GB and 16GB are the only options.

What they offer is not the same as what it will hold. I'd be surprised if a model today didn't accept 32 GB, but I don't want to be surprised.

or if it will take a SATA drive (comes with 256GB NVMe drive).

Nope. The above GL732 chart only shows MVMe for HDD interface.

Again, what is being offered, not necessarily what can be installed.

It is also a bear, actually larger than my present Dell Precision
M6800 which barely fits in my laptop bag.

You want the biggest screen available in a laptop and now you complain
that it's too big and heavy? Perhaps this would be a good time to
limit your expectations.

Compare to most other 17" laptops, it's huge. Like I said, I currently have a Dell Precision which is one of the largest 17" laptops around. This thing is even bigger, not because it needs to be, just because they give it a goofy shape. I expect it won't fit in any 17" laptop bag I can find.

Incidentally, I just ordered a Dell Precision M6800 laptop for a
customer doing CNC programming. Except for the CPU, it's maxed out
(two 500GB SATA drives, 32GB RAM, Win 7, etc). About $550.

When you say "ordered" you mean from ebay or someplace used, right? That's where I got this one and it came with Windows 10, a reinstall which means there are not drivers for everything. One issue I can think of off the top of my head is the keyboard backlight blanks out after just a very few seconds making it hard to use in the dark. Whatever adjustment it's supposed to have is not supported. Such an old machine may even have mechanical problems. Mine has loose hinges that seem to be getting slowly worse. But a shift key broke which is the last straw for me. I just don't want to work on it and the durn thing blows too much heat a lot of the time. Odd that independent of what the CPU and GPU seem to be doing, the thing blows some serious heat or is cool enough to have in my lap...

Oh, I won't be buying an Omen. Chat actually hung up on my because
it was so hard for them to get answers. MSI doesn't seem to have
chat so I emailed them.

You can get better answers from Google or the vendors support Forums.
Those also give you the benefit of knowing what users are having
problems with. If I want real data, the very last people I would ask
are the factory sales people, who are mostly accustomed to dealing
with dealers.

Try googling about the color of the keyboard backlight. There's just too much crap to wade through. I did find one page where the guy was asking exactly the same question, but a slightly different model. Seems the Steel keyboards used are prized by gamers, but come in both red and RGB versions.

While the keys are full height, they cut the width on the numeric
keypad. The function keys have been cut in height for some time
now, so the four keys across the top of the numeric keypad are
small in both directions, lol! They also cut the size (or placement)
of the spacebar by putting a second backslash key next to it.

There was a web pile I found a few weeks ago that showed various
keyboards on a properly scaled grid. It's good for comparing
keyboards. I'll see if I can find it again.

It would be interesting. My real problem is finding actual info on laptops.. The manufacturers don't actually provide the sort of detail I want. They mostly want to get you to read their marketing hype. Then there is fighting the organzation of their web pages to see what they have in a way that makes it easy to compare rather than having to look at each and every laptop. Multiply by the number of manufacturers and the job is not worth it. I'll just go back to lugging a desktop unit around. lol

All this because I want a keyboard with actual keys.

That's also what all the gamers want. I suggest hanging around the
gamers forums and web sites to see what they are buying. Please note
that their standard of excellence is the "feel" of the keys and their
response time. In gaming, a fraction of a millisecond faster on
firing the machine gun is the difference between winning or losing.

My standards are much lower. I just want a keyboard that has actual, proper sized keys. Seems even the gamer keyboards are being compromised with 2/3 width numeric keypads. Seems insane to me. I guess these appeal to users with 2/3 width fingers.

The vendors actually argue with me that these are full sized! It's like they refuse to look at the tiny keys and will only read the script that says the *keyboards* are full size.

Cherry MX series mechanical keys:
Red: low-noise switches deliver a more linear keypress
for rapid-fire actuation.
Brown: low-noise switches that have a tactile bump for
feedback with every keypress.
Blue: “clicky” tactile switches that are optimized for
rapid command entry.

If you got into computing during the early 1980's perhaps a dash of
IBM buckling spring keyboard nostalgia:
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UltraClassic

I vaguely recall the IBM keyboards which were desired by typist. Back then I could use most anything other than a membrane keyboard. My favorite was the MS 'natural", a curved, split and twisted keyboard that let your wrists sit straight, very nice, but very large end to end. Hard to pack.

That's also why you'll find more TN LCD displays on gaming laptops
than IPS. TN has a faster response time, even though some look awful.

Thanks, I'll be sure to avoid those.

Another place to hang out are with those rugged individuals that do
CAD on a laptop. Some are 17" displays and unlike the gamers, they
don't care much about "feel", RGB, kbd latency, or display latency.

That's me really. I do FPGA work and my eyes are not good, so a 17" display is the absolute minimum. I don't care about the gamer speeds, but I do want the durn keys to fit my fingers.

8 Best Laptops for AutoCad, 3D Modeling, and other CAD Works.
https://www.it4nextgen.com/best-laptops-for-autocad-3d-modelling/
Hmmm... none of these seem to have mechanical keys, but I'm not sure.
You get to dig through the specs and try to find out. I'm lazy tonite
(too hot).

Those are some expensive machines! Up to $3,500!!!

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:58:33 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

The options offered by Newegg at 8 and 16GB RAM. This page covers
most of the GL73 mutations:
https://us.msi.com/Laptop/GL73-9SX-GTX/Specification
Looks like 8GB and 16GB are the only options.

What they offer is not the same as what it will hold. I'd be surprised
if a model today didn't accept 32 GB, but I don't want to be surprised.

Manufacturers prefer to specify the maximum memory that they are able
to test. It could possibly handle much more, but unless tested by the
manufacturer, they don't want to claim larger memory just in case
something goes wrong when someone tries. This mess is typical:
<https://www.dell.com/community/Desktops-General-Read-Only/32GB-RAM-in-an-Optiplex-790-990/td-p/3880625>

Compare to most other 17" laptops, it's huge. Like I said, I currently
have a Dell Precision which is one of the largest 17" laptops around.
This thing is even bigger, not because it needs to be, just because they
give it a goofy shape. I expect it won't fit in any 17" laptop bag I can find.

Maybe something different might be more appropriate. One of my
customers gives quite a few presentations. He carries a portable LED
projector, a USFF (ultra small form factor) Dell Optiplex computah,
cordless mouse, cordless keyboard, and a small 13"(?) LCD monitor used
only for initial setup. Most of the time, the conference supplies an
overhead projector, so the LED projector is only used for small
meetings in odd locations (or when the overhead projector craps out).
This is probably bigger and heavier than your proposed gaming laptop,
but might be more useful. Certainly, the PC will be easier and
cheaper to upgrade.

Incidentally, I just ordered a Dell Precision M6800 laptop for a
customer doing CNC programming. Except for the CPU, it's maxed out
(two 500GB SATA drives, 32GB RAM, Win 7, etc). About $550.

When you say "ordered" you mean from ebay or someplace used,
right?

eBay. Sorry, I forgot to include that detail.

That's where I got this one and it came with Windows 10, a reinstall
which means there are not drivers for everything.

The customer did not want Windoze 10 and is currently using Windoze 7
on all his machines. He wants to run some really old CAD software
that works well on Win 7, but has problems with Win 10. I also recall
some problems with his pen plotter drivers on Win 10.

One issue I can think of off the top of my head is the keyboard backlight
blanks out after just a very few seconds making it hard to use in the dark.
Whatever adjustment it's supposed to have is not supported.

Some things are best done under cover of darkness. I don't think FPGA
programming is one of them. I've run into that problem before on
laptops. The keyboard LED backlighting usually runs on 5VDC. I just
cut the trace that runs the backlighting, and applied full time 5VDC.
It was a bit too bright, so I installed a series dropping resistor. I
wanted to install a dimmer, but the customer said that fixed level was
fine.

Such an old machine may even have mechanical problems. Mine has
loose hinges that seem to be getting slowly worse.

I try to fix those before the plastic breaks. If you're lucky, it's
only loose screws into brass inserts in the plastic. Add some blue
thread lock, tighten, and it should be good for a few more years. If
the hinges are too stiff, adjust them (if there is an adjustment nut),
or slop on some oil. If you're not luck, and the screws go directly
into the plastic, reinforce the thin plastic with epoxy, scrap metal,
or if there's room, brass threaded inserts. Whatever the situation,
you'll probably need to disassemble the LCD bezel and the top of the
laptop case.

But a shift key broke which is the last straw for me. I just don't
want to work on it and the durn thing blows too much heat a lot of
the time. Odd that independent of what the CPU and GPU seem
to be doing, the thing blows some serious heat or is cool enough
to have in my lap...

That doesn't sound right. There are some programs that allow
monitoring the chip temperatures. Try Speedfan:
<http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php>
At least it will tell you which chip is getting hot and whether your
fan is turning on/off at the right temperatures. More:
<http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/dellfancmd-%E2%80%93-tool-to-enable-manual-custom-control-of-the-laptop-fans.827106/>
<https://www.hwinfo.com>
I'll let you know what the one I ordered does after it arrives.

Try googling about the color of the keyboard backlight. There's
just too much crap to wade through. I did find one page where the
guy was asking exactly the same question, but a slightly different
model. Seems the Steel keyboards used are prized by gamers, but
come in both red and RGB versions.

Sigh. Many years ago, I working on a radio project, where I was the
designated "cleanup" guy. Doing the spec sheet for marketeering
appeared in my mailbox with a hint that it was needed the previous
day. So, I did my best. Absolute maximum not to exceed ratings,
absolute minimum ratings, recommended ranges, stable antenna load
region, some useful graphs, applicable US and international standards,
copious footnotes, and so on. I even made sure it would fit on one
double sided letter size page. It took me two full days to throw this
together and have a friend check it. I was happy, so off it went.

About 2 months later, I saw the final spec sheet for the radio.
Instead of my detailed specifications, there was a full page photo of
the radio. A few random numbers, some of which were wrong, were on
the back, along with a large number of legal disclaimers. All the
footnotes and standards were gone.

What happened was that marketing sent the spec sheet to the company
legal advisor, who deleted anything that might not be defensible
should a customer sue or demand their money back for failing to meet
the "published" specifications. If you're wondering why equipment
data sheets are in such a sorry state these days, now you know why.

>I'll just go back to lugging a desktop unit around. lol

That might be the only solution that meets all your requirements. At
least you can assemble a workable machine for available components.

My standards are much lower. I just want a keyboard that has actual,
proper sized keys. Seems even the gamer keyboards are being
compromised with 2/3 width numeric keypads. Seems insane to me.
I guess these appeal to users with 2/3 width fingers.

It is insane. My personal solution was to find a keyboard that I
liked, and was cheap and commonly available. Dell SK-8135.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=Dell+SK-8135&tbm=isch>
It's not a true mechanical keyboard as it has a dome type membrane
instead of individual key switches. It's also not backlit or RGB. I
have about 10 of these, so I have enough spares in case I break
something. When I eventually rub off the white key legends after
about 3 years of hard use, it goes to the recycler and I buy a
replacement keyboard. Probably not suitable for your application, but
good enough for what I'm doing.

The vendors actually argue with me that these are full sized! It's
like they refuse to look at the tiny keys and will only read the script
that says the *keyboards* are full size.

That's what that keyboard size comparison site was intended to fix.
"Full size" currently has the same value as "genuine". I'll go
looking for the site later today.

I vaguely recall the IBM keyboards which were desired by typist.
Back then I could use most anything other than a membrane keyboard.
My favorite was the MS 'natural", a curved, split and twisted keyboard
that let your wrists sit straight, very nice, but very large end to end.
Hard to pack.

I play piano, which gives me some added finger strength and range of
motion. No sign of any carpel tunnel or other problems. I like to
try every weird and strange "ergonomic" keyboard I find. Most are
useless to me because I won't spend the time unlearning my current
favorite keyboard and learn something new. The MS keyboard was one of
the first ergonomic keyboards. A few of my customers loved them and
probably still use them (or their decedents) today. I thought they
sucked and recycled them as fast as possible.

That's also why you'll find more TN LCD displays on gaming laptops
than IPS. TN has a faster response time, even though some look awful.

Thanks, I'll be sure to avoid those.

Another detail that might be of interest is that the M6x00 series of
laptops came with either TN or IPS. Look at the "screen" column at:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Precision#Latitude_E_Series_based_(2008-2014)>
Some M6600 and M6700 were supplied with IPS LCD panels. They looked
great when new, but would develop weird tints as the RGB backlighting
LED's aged. The other years, including the M6800, only TN panels were
supplied.

That's me really. I do FPGA work and my eyes are not good, so a
17" display is the absolute minimum.

That's why I suggested the LED projector (especially since you work in
the dark). The one's I resold were NOT 1920x1080. I think they were
1600x900, which was good enough for presentations. Maybe something
like this:
<https://www.amazon.com/AAXA-Projector-Resolution-Portable-Business/dp/B07N1X545K>

I don't care about the gamer speeds, but I do want the durn keys to
fit my fingers.

Compromise. Get an external full size wireless keyboard.

8 Best Laptops for AutoCad, 3D Modeling, and other CAD Works.
https://www.it4nextgen.com/best-laptops-for-autocad-3d-modelling/

Those are some expensive machines! Up to $3,500!!!

If you order a custom 17" gaming laptop from a builder such as Sager,
that's about what you can expect to pay for a high end model:
<https://www.sagernotebook.com/17-Laptops/>
<https://www.sagernotebook.com/Notebook-NP9176-G3.html>
Full color illuminated full size keyboard with numeric pad
and anti-ghost keys
Fully programmable macro capability - customize individual key
as hot key / multiple keystrokes in one key W/A/S/D gaming key
(Watch out for haunted keyboards full of ghosts).

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 1:27:21 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 21:58:33 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

The options offered by Newegg at 8 and 16GB RAM. This page covers
most of the GL73 mutations:
https://us.msi.com/Laptop/GL73-9SX-GTX/Specification
Looks like 8GB and 16GB are the only options.

What they offer is not the same as what it will hold. I'd be surprised
if a model today didn't accept 32 GB, but I don't want to be surprised.

Manufacturers prefer to specify the maximum memory that they are able
to test. It could possibly handle much more, but unless tested by the
manufacturer, they don't want to claim larger memory just in case
something goes wrong when someone tries. This mess is typical:
https://www.dell.com/community/Desktops-General-Read-Only/32GB-RAM-in-an-Optiplex-790-990/td-p/3880625

Compare to most other 17" laptops, it's huge. Like I said, I currently
have a Dell Precision which is one of the largest 17" laptops around.
This thing is even bigger, not because it needs to be, just because they
give it a goofy shape. I expect it won't fit in any 17" laptop bag I can find.

Maybe something different might be more appropriate. One of my
customers gives quite a few presentations. He carries a portable LED
projector, a USFF (ultra small form factor) Dell Optiplex computah,
cordless mouse, cordless keyboard, and a small 13"(?) LCD monitor used
only for initial setup. Most of the time, the conference supplies an
overhead projector, so the LED projector is only used for small
meetings in odd locations (or when the overhead projector craps out).
This is probably bigger and heavier than your proposed gaming laptop,
but might be more useful. Certainly, the PC will be easier and
cheaper to upgrade.

I couldn't use a projector in 90% of the locations I use the laptop. Panera, my house, my friend's house... I actually can't think of any place where I could make it work without rearranging furniture or wall hangings or both. I guess I could take out some doors to provide a nice place for the screen.

That's one reason why I don't use a large TV at home. The screen would appear smaller than my laptop.

Incidentally, I just ordered a Dell Precision M6800 laptop for a
customer doing CNC programming. Except for the CPU, it's maxed out
(two 500GB SATA drives, 32GB RAM, Win 7, etc). About $550.

When you say "ordered" you mean from ebay or someplace used,
right?

eBay. Sorry, I forgot to include that detail.

That's where I got this one and it came with Windows 10, a reinstall
which means there are not drivers for everything.

The customer did not want Windoze 10 and is currently using Windoze 7
on all his machines. He wants to run some really old CAD software
that works well on Win 7, but has problems with Win 10. I also recall
some problems with his pen plotter drivers on Win 10.

I don't own printers or plotter or anything else that won't work with every version of Windows since... well, since whenever I suppose. Maybe not 95 since that didn't support USB I think.

One issue I can think of off the top of my head is the keyboard backlight
blanks out after just a very few seconds making it hard to use in the dark.
Whatever adjustment it's supposed to have is not supported.

Some things are best done under cover of darkness. I don't think FPGA
programming is one of them. I've run into that problem before on
laptops. The keyboard LED backlighting usually runs on 5VDC. I just
cut the trace that runs the backlighting, and applied full time 5VDC.
It was a bit too bright, so I installed a series dropping resistor. I
wanted to install a dimmer, but the customer said that fixed level was
fine.

Such an old machine may even have mechanical problems. Mine has
loose hinges that seem to be getting slowly worse.

I try to fix those before the plastic breaks. If you're lucky, it's
only loose screws into brass inserts in the plastic. Add some blue
thread lock, tighten, and it should be good for a few more years. If
the hinges are too stiff, adjust them (if there is an adjustment nut),
or slop on some oil. If you're not luck, and the screws go directly
into the plastic, reinforce the thin plastic with epoxy, scrap metal,
or if there's room, brass threaded inserts. Whatever the situation,
you'll probably need to disassemble the LCD bezel and the top of the
laptop case.

What plastic??? This is an M6800 with an all metal case... to the best of my knowledge. I wish I had someone like you nearby. I took a computer to a place once to fix some issue that I was certain was software, but didn't need a full reinstall. All they knew how to do was a clean wipe and reinstall. Eventually I got it working again, but the process is painful, digging around on the Internet with a 12 inch netbook that chokes if you open three tabs in FF.

But a shift key broke which is the last straw for me. I just don't
want to work on it and the durn thing blows too much heat a lot of
the time. Odd that independent of what the CPU and GPU seem
to be doing, the thing blows some serious heat or is cool enough
to have in my lap...

That doesn't sound right. There are some programs that allow
monitoring the chip temperatures. Try Speedfan:
http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php
At least it will tell you which chip is getting hot and whether your
fan is turning on/off at the right temperatures. More:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/dellfancmd-%E2%80%93-tool-to-enable-manual-custom-control-of-the-laptop-fans.827106/
https://www.hwinfo.com
I'll let you know what the one I ordered does after it arrives.

I needed several machines for work and bought them around the same time. They all run very warm. One was warm enough I wanted to open it up to clean it and asked permission in case the considered it to be voiding the "warranty" (eBay, 60 day refund). They said go ahead and offered me $70 bucks off for my trouble if I didn't return it. Eventually I took them up on their offer, but they ignored me until the 60 days ran out. So I disputed it on the credit card and got it all back. Why do people need to be such shits? They probably only paid $50 for the machine in a lot.

Try googling about the color of the keyboard backlight. There's
just too much crap to wade through. I did find one page where the
guy was asking exactly the same question, but a slightly different
model. Seems the Steel keyboards used are prized by gamers, but
come in both red and RGB versions.

Sigh. Many years ago, I working on a radio project, where I was the
designated "cleanup" guy. Doing the spec sheet for marketeering
appeared in my mailbox with a hint that it was needed the previous
day. So, I did my best. Absolute maximum not to exceed ratings,
absolute minimum ratings, recommended ranges, stable antenna load
region, some useful graphs, applicable US and international standards,
copious footnotes, and so on. I even made sure it would fit on one
double sided letter size page. It took me two full days to throw this
together and have a friend check it. I was happy, so off it went.

About 2 months later, I saw the final spec sheet for the radio.
Instead of my detailed specifications, there was a full page photo of
the radio. A few random numbers, some of which were wrong, were on
the back, along with a large number of legal disclaimers. All the
footnotes and standards were gone.

What happened was that marketing sent the spec sheet to the company
legal advisor, who deleted anything that might not be defensible
should a customer sue or demand their money back for failing to meet
the "published" specifications. If you're wondering why equipment
data sheets are in such a sorry state these days, now you know why.

I'll just go back to lugging a desktop unit around. lol

That might be the only solution that meets all your requirements. At
least you can assemble a workable machine for available components.

I was joking. It doesn't meet any of my requirements other than cost and performance. Far too large and heavy, just the monitor alone would be a PITA. I considered using one of the little box PCs with a monitor for my work test fixture. But just lugging the monitor is such a PITA a laptop is so much easier. I really should use 17 inch units for that though. At least one is 15 inch.

My standards are much lower. I just want a keyboard that has actual,
proper sized keys. Seems even the gamer keyboards are being
compromised with 2/3 width numeric keypads. Seems insane to me.
I guess these appeal to users with 2/3 width fingers.

It is insane. My personal solution was to find a keyboard that I
liked, and was cheap and commonly available. Dell SK-8135.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Dell+SK-8135&tbm=isch
It's not a true mechanical keyboard as it has a dome type membrane
instead of individual key switches. It's also not backlit or RGB. I
have about 10 of these, so I have enough spares in case I break
something. When I eventually rub off the white key legends after
about 3 years of hard use, it goes to the recycler and I buy a
replacement keyboard. Probably not suitable for your application, but
good enough for what I'm doing.

That would be ideal if I wasn't always on the move. I don't stay in any one place more than 3 or 4 days.

The vendors actually argue with me that these are full sized! It's
like they refuse to look at the tiny keys and will only read the script
that says the *keyboards* are full size.

That's what that keyboard size comparison site was intended to fix.
"Full size" currently has the same value as "genuine". I'll go
looking for the site later today.

I vaguely recall the IBM keyboards which were desired by typist.
Back then I could use most anything other than a membrane keyboard.
My favorite was the MS 'natural", a curved, split and twisted keyboard
that let your wrists sit straight, very nice, but very large end to end.
Hard to pack.

I play piano, which gives me some added finger strength and range of
motion. No sign of any carpel tunnel or other problems. I like to
try every weird and strange "ergonomic" keyboard I find. Most are
useless to me because I won't spend the time unlearning my current
favorite keyboard and learn something new. The MS keyboard was one of
the first ergonomic keyboards. A few of my customers loved them and
probably still use them (or their decedents) today. I thought they
sucked and recycled them as fast as possible.

Mine either don't work or can't be used with USB. I tried using one with a Raspberry Pi and the little USB adapter didn't work there. Oddly enough they used a very large plastic sheet as circuit board and one of the traces corroded and broke. I never tried to fix it since they were old anyway. One should still work though. It would take some getting used to after using a laptop. Wow, what a difference! A laptop has to be the worst keyboard/screen ever from an ergonomic perspective.

That's also why you'll find more TN LCD displays on gaming laptops
than IPS. TN has a faster response time, even though some look awful.

Thanks, I'll be sure to avoid those.

Another detail that might be of interest is that the M6x00 series of
laptops came with either TN or IPS. Look at the "screen" column at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Precision#Latitude_E_Series_based_(2008-2014)
Some M6600 and M6700 were supplied with IPS LCD panels. They looked
great when new, but would develop weird tints as the RGB backlighting
LED's aged. The other years, including the M6800, only TN panels were
supplied.

My M6800 has a great screen. I use it to watch programs all the time. The one that was truely crappy was the Lenovo. There was no viewing position that allowed the entire screen to be seen without optical problems at either the top or bottom of the screen or both.

That's me really. I do FPGA work and my eyes are not good, so a
17" display is the absolute minimum.

That's why I suggested the LED projector (especially since you work in
the dark). The one's I resold were NOT 1920x1080. I think they were
1600x900, which was good enough for presentations. Maybe something
like this:
https://www.amazon.com/AAXA-Projector-Resolution-Portable-Business/dp/B07N1X545K

Lol, the "dark" is ambient lighting which varies as the sun sets and rises. I don't always turn on a lamp as it gets dark. No particular reason to stay in the dark other than when watching shows. Still, I don't want a glowing red eyed beast under my keyboard.

I don't care about the gamer speeds, but I do want the durn keys to
fit my fingers.

Compromise. Get an external full size wireless keyboard.

But where do I put the computer that is close enough to see? A regular keyboard would be in the way.

8 Best Laptops for AutoCad, 3D Modeling, and other CAD Works.
https://www.it4nextgen.com/best-laptops-for-autocad-3d-modelling/

Those are some expensive machines! Up to $3,500!!!

If you order a custom 17" gaming laptop from a builder such as Sager,
that's about what you can expect to pay for a high end model:
https://www.sagernotebook.com/17-Laptops/
https://www.sagernotebook.com/Notebook-NP9176-G3.html
Full color illuminated full size keyboard with numeric pad
and anti-ghost keys
Fully programmable macro capability - customize individual key
as hot key / multiple keystrokes in one key W/A/S/D gaming key
(Watch out for haunted keyboards full of ghosts).

Yeah, I had to look that up before. I guess gamers pound on their keyboards for firing and such.

There are other issues to deal with. I'm kayaking tomorrow and need to herd the turtles. Thanks for your comments.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

On Tuesday, 17 September 2019 17:57:28 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:29:46 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

What plastic??? This is an M6800 with an all metal case...
to the best of my knowledge.

Sorry. Most of the laptop hinges I fix have plastic cases. I forgot
that the M6800 is all metal. If your hinges are loose, it's probably
just some loose hinge screws. Loctite (blue) and tighten.

are you saying he has a screw loose?

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:29:46 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

I couldn't use a projector in 90% of the locations I use the laptop.
Panera, my house, my friend's house... I actually can't think of any
place where I could make it work without rearranging furniture or
wall hangings or both. I guess I could take out some doors to
provide a nice place for the screen.

Every respectable conference room or engineering office seem to have a
large white board available. Clean off the scribbling and use it for
a projector screen. I found it useful to photograph what was on the
white board before erasing everything because there always seems to be
someone who later insists that I erased something important.

That's one reason why I don't use a large TV at home. The screen
would appear smaller than my laptop.

Large TV screens are only useful for large audiences or large rooms.
Small audiences (usually one person) and small rooms do best with
small screens. There are online miscalculators relating optimum
viewing distances and screen sizes:
<https://www.crutchfield.com/S-fNirMG0pLVJ/learn/learningcenter/home/TV_placement.html>
<https://www.inchcalculator.com/tv-size-viewing-distance-calculator/>
<https://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html>
etc. Note that those calculators sponsored by companies selling large
screen TVs tend to favor larger and more profitable screen sizes.

For a while, I would watch TV in bed, with the picture projected onto
the ceiling. I had some difficulty dealing with the inevitable
distortion caused by the angled ceiling and non-ideal projector
location, so I gave it up after a few weeks.

Incidentally, I just ordered a Dell Precision M6800 laptop for a
customer doing CNC programming. Except for the CPU, it's maxed out
(two 500GB SATA drives, 32GB RAM, Win 7, etc). About $550.

When you say "ordered" you mean from ebay or someplace used,
right?

eBay. Sorry, I forgot to include that detail.

Argh. The customer mangled the order, cancelled the order, and
re-ordered a better M6800 computah from a different eBay vendor. I
might end up buying the extra computah if he'll give me a big
discount.

What plastic??? This is an M6800 with an all metal case...
to the best of my knowledge.

Sorry. Most of the laptop hinges I fix have plastic cases. I forgot
that the M6800 is all metal. If your hinges are loose, it's probably
just some loose hinge screws. Loctite (blue) and tighten.

>I wish I had someone like you nearby.

I'm trying to retire (and failing).

I needed several machines for work and bought them around the same time.
They all run very warm.

Oh swell. Just what I didn't want to hear.

Compromise. Get an external full size wireless keyboard.

But where do I put the computer that is close enough to see?
A regular keyboard would be in the way.

Most laptops are now designed to operate normally with the lid closed.
When I give a presentation, that's how I run the laptop. There are a
few Windoze settings that need to be tweaked, such Power Settings for
what to do when I close the lid. Try &lt;Win-Key&gt;+ <P> and select 2nd
screen only:
&lt;https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/27911/windows-10-connect-to-a-projector-or-pc&gt;
That should turn of the laptop screen and display everything on the
projector. However, be sure to check if it actually turns off the
laptop backlighting. I vaguely recall some old laptop that didn't.

Yeah, I had to look that up before. I guess gamers pound on
their keyboards for firing and such.

Yep. Many of the games rely on the players reaction time in order to
win. To hit a keyboard key faster means the player will kill someone
or something quicker. Faster really means harder if there's any
keyboard delay. Of course, it's always the same keys that get mashed.

There are other issues to deal with. I'm kayaking tomorrow and
need to herd the turtles. Thanks for your comments.

Y'er welcome. Have fun.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 10:11:20 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, 17 September 2019 17:57:28 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:29:46 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com&gt; wrote:

What plastic??? This is an M6800 with an all metal case...
to the best of my knowledge.

Sorry. Most of the laptop hinges I fix have plastic cases. I forgot
that the M6800 is all metal. If your hinges are loose, it's probably
just some loose hinge screws. Loctite (blue) and tighten.

are you saying he has a screw loose?

Only when he's unhinged.
&lt;https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unhinged&gt;


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 12:57:28 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 11:29:46 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com&gt; wrote:

I couldn't use a projector in 90% of the locations I use the laptop.
Panera, my house, my friend's house... I actually can't think of any
place where I could make it work without rearranging furniture or
wall hangings or both. I guess I could take out some doors to
provide a nice place for the screen.

Every respectable conference room or engineering office seem to have a
large white board available. Clean off the scribbling and use it for
a projector screen. I found it useful to photograph what was on the
white board before erasing everything because there always seems to be
someone who later insists that I erased something important.

Where do you think I work? I work in my bedroom for a short commute. Then there are the days I have to work in the living room. On a weekly basis I travel to distant shores where I work at a friend's house or Panera's or someplace similar. I haven't used my computer in a conference room in... well, ever.

That's one reason why I don't use a large TV at home. The screen
would appear smaller than my laptop.

Large TV screens are only useful for large audiences or large rooms.

What??? You just told me to use a projector1!! The TV doesn't require a blank wall at least. It just needs a place to hang which can be temporary if you use a motorized mount to swing it up toward the ceiling. I've thought of that, but I haven't found any motorized mounts I thought were worth the effort. That could also get the screen closer to me so it actually appears larger than a 17" laptop... in my laptop.

Then there is the issue cabling and connections. That could be a real mess with a TV hanging from the ceiling. I suppose I could strap the laptop to the back of the TV and connect via wireless keyboard and mouse.

Small audiences (usually one person) and small rooms do best with
small screens. There are online miscalculators relating optimum
viewing distances and screen sizes:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-fNirMG0pLVJ/learn/learningcenter/home/TV_placement.html
https://www.inchcalculator.com/tv-size-viewing-distance-calculator/
https://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html
etc. Note that those calculators sponsored by companies selling large
screen TVs tend to favor larger and more profitable screen sizes.

For a while, I would watch TV in bed, with the picture projected onto
the ceiling. I had some difficulty dealing with the inevitable
distortion caused by the angled ceiling and non-ideal projector
location, so I gave it up after a few weeks.

Incidentally, I just ordered a Dell Precision M6800 laptop for a
customer doing CNC programming. Except for the CPU, it's maxed out
(two 500GB SATA drives, 32GB RAM, Win 7, etc). About $550.

When you say "ordered" you mean from ebay or someplace used,
right?

eBay. Sorry, I forgot to include that detail.

Argh. The customer mangled the order, cancelled the order, and
re-ordered a better M6800 computah from a different eBay vendor. I
might end up buying the extra computah if he'll give me a big
discount.

What plastic??? This is an M6800 with an all metal case...
to the best of my knowledge.

Sorry. Most of the laptop hinges I fix have plastic cases. I forgot
that the M6800 is all metal. If your hinges are loose, it's probably
just some loose hinge screws. Loctite (blue) and tighten.

I wish I had someone like you nearby.

I'm trying to retire (and failing).

It's for the greater good of mankind.

I needed several machines for work and bought them around the same time.
They all run very warm.

Oh swell. Just what I didn't want to hear.

I'm told part of the problem is these are desktop processors in a laptop case. That said, the last week or so the laptop has been very comfortable. It varies from time to time. If the CPU gets up to 25% utilized it usually starts getting too hot to hold in my lap. Likewise a high GPU utilization does the same thing. Other times the CPU will be at 30% and comfortable. Currently it's single digit and comfortable... mostly.

Compromise. Get an external full size wireless keyboard.

But where do I put the computer that is close enough to see?
A regular keyboard would be in the way.

Most laptops are now designed to operate normally with the lid closed.
When I give a presentation, that's how I run the laptop. There are a
few Windoze settings that need to be tweaked, such Power Settings for
what to do when I close the lid. Try &lt;Win-Key&gt;+ <P> and select 2nd
screen only:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/27911/windows-10-connect-to-a-projector-or-pc
That should turn of the laptop screen and display everything on the
projector. However, be sure to check if it actually turns off the
laptop backlighting. I vaguely recall some old laptop that didn't.

TV maybe, projector, no. There just isn't a place to project it that would appear as large as the laptop screen. In the bedroom where I don't want to spend *all* my working time, the wall is 11 feet, I believe. Do the math of a 17 inch laptop about 24 inches away and what size screen would be needed 11 feet away to look the same size.

Yeah, I had to look that up before. I guess gamers pound on
their keyboards for firing and such.

Yep. Many of the games rely on the players reaction time in order to
win. To hit a keyboard key faster means the player will kill someone
or something quicker. Faster really means harder if there's any
keyboard delay. Of course, it's always the same keys that get mashed.

There are other issues to deal with. I'm kayaking tomorrow and
need to herd the turtles. Thanks for your comments.

Y'er welcome. Have fun.

It was a good time. Small group, with great weather. This Sunday we are going down the Antietam which is rather rocky and will have significant shallow spots this time of year. We may be dragging the kayaks more than paddling.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209