Is this the future or what? (MOT)

R

Rich Grise

Guest
That's "Marginally on Topic." It's about an electronic thing,
but not an electronics post. I'm in a state of awe. Where's
the transporter and holodeck? I just got a HP scanjet 4600.
(and yes, it's 'a', not 'an', because that's the way HP says
it in their s/w registration card. apparently you're not
supposed to say, "an aitch-pee ..." but "a aitch-pee ..." ;-)
)
$149.99 at office max. I haven't got it all the way unpacked
yet - I noticed it uses a special cable with a female wall
wart jack on a flylead on the USB end. So I pull out the
wall wart, and it hefts like an empty plastic box - the
cord is heavier than the power supply, right? So I'm wondering,
how much power can they get out of this little wimpy thing?
Why not just pick off USB power? I look. input 100-120 V 60 Hz
600 mA; 12VDC, 1250mA.

in a package that, with about 6' of lamp cord, weighs .45 lbs.

!!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!

I have a little back-burner project in my box, that's so far
just a piece of vectorbord, a couple of screws and nuts, two
filter caps, a fuse, switch, bridge, and Mouser 12VAC 120mA
transformer, and it and about 4' of lamp cord weighs .40 lbs.

I.e., approx. 10X the power density.

I call that Magic. (Any sufficiently advanced technology...)
But my age approaches the national speed limit. Speaking
of age, has anybody ever noticed that, upon approaching some
important milestone, the approach seems asymptotic on some
level? Well, I ramble. %-}

Cheers!
Rich
 
I just noticed, being a nickel short of your highway limit, that I have a
basement FULL of so called odd-ball DIP ICs...4000 series CMOS,dip nc
relays,8052s,PICs,705Ks,Sibec and other 'development systems' including a
Domino2 with adc,pressure xducers,maxim parts,natsemi stuff,plus a bag of
2N6075a left over from homebrewed SSRs. That doesn't include the boxes of
16BIT ISA cards leftover from 'projects'.
seems too good to toss,heck I paid good coins for this stuff....but the
eyesight is failing, and SMT has taken over......

oh well....
guess I did right to retire at 45..

Jay in Greensville,Ontario.
 
"j.b. miller" wrote:

I just noticed, being a nickel short of your highway limit, that I have a
basement FULL of so called odd-ball DIP ICs...4000 series CMOS,dip nc
relays,8052s,PICs,705Ks,Sibec and other 'development systems' including a
Domino2 with adc,pressure xducers,maxim parts,natsemi stuff,plus a bag of
2N6075a left over from homebrewed SSRs. That doesn't include the boxes of
16BIT ISA cards leftover from 'projects'.
seems too good to toss,heck I paid good coins for this stuff....but the
eyesight is failing, and SMT has taken over......

oh well....
guess I did right to retire at 45..

Jay in Greensville,Ontario.
Click to expand...
Luck bastard! I'm still struggling at 56! Shoulda stayed with Big Brother
instead of going on my own. BTW, why Greensville? Nothing out there except
Webster's Falls and a view off the Escarpment. Or are you a Greensville
Public / Dundas District alama mater and just can't leave the old place?

Cheers,

Gerry (originally from around the corner, now in God's Country (Sandbanks
area)).
 
"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:hMaWb.3925$1B6.1838@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
That's "Marginally on Topic." It's about an electronic thing,
but not an electronics post. I'm in a state of awe. Where's
the transporter and holodeck? I just got a HP scanjet 4600.
(and yes, it's 'a', not 'an', because that's the way HP says
it in their s/w registration card. apparently you're not
supposed to say, "an aitch-pee ..." but "a aitch-pee ..." ;-)
)
$149.99 at office max. I haven't got it all the way unpacked
yet - I noticed it uses a special cable with a female wall
wart jack on a flylead on the USB end. So I pull out the
wall wart, and it hefts like an empty plastic box - the
cord is heavier than the power supply, right? So I'm wondering,
how much power can they get out of this little wimpy thing?
Why not just pick off USB power? I look. input 100-120 V 60 Hz
600 mA; 12VDC, 1250mA.

in a package that, with about 6' of lamp cord, weighs .45 lbs.

!!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!

I have a little back-burner project in my box, that's so far
just a piece of vectorbord, a couple of screws and nuts, two
filter caps, a fuse, switch, bridge, and Mouser 12VAC 120mA
transformer, and it and about 4' of lamp cord weighs .40 lbs.

I.e., approx. 10X the power density.

I call that Magic. (Any sufficiently advanced technology...)
But my age approaches the national speed limit. Speaking
of age, has anybody ever noticed that, upon approaching some
important milestone, the approach seems asymptotic on some
level? Well, I ramble. %-}

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...

Penn and Teller are now about to reveal what is inside the mysterious box.
After giving up on the *inverse* Torx head screws recessed into plastic with
no way to get pliers on them, and probably reverse-threaded, I used a saw.
This is a photo of the inside of a feather-light 6V 2000ma power supply for
a digital camera that has since passed on, and was about seven years old:
http://www.macetech.com/powersupply.jpg

Not at all surprising to us young whippersnappers, it's a switcher. These
days the switchers take up a lot less room too, with special-purpose ICs.
This power supply is probably twenty times more complex than your typical
transformer+rectifier+capacitor circuit, but the benefit (at least weight
vs. power-wise) is clear over heavy magnetics.

Yes, we got some neat toys to play with these days...but not quite as many
of us are making any money doing it. I'd never give up electronics, but
these two years out of school have nearly convinced me I will always need to
pay for it with some other job.
 
"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:hMaWb.3925$1B6.1838@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
That's "Marginally on Topic." It's about an electronic thing,
but not an electronics post. I'm in a state of awe. Where's
the transporter and holodeck? I just got a HP scanjet 4600.
(and yes, it's 'a', not 'an', because that's the way HP says
it in their s/w registration card. apparently you're not
supposed to say, "an aitch-pee ..." but "a aitch-pee ..." ;-)
)
$149.99 at office max. I haven't got it all the way unpacked
yet - I noticed it uses a special cable with a female wall
wart jack on a flylead on the USB end. So I pull out the
wall wart, and it hefts like an empty plastic box - the
cord is heavier than the power supply, right? So I'm wondering,
how much power can they get out of this little wimpy thing?
Why not just pick off USB power? I look. input 100-120 V 60 Hz
600 mA; 12VDC, 1250mA.

in a package that, with about 6' of lamp cord, weighs .45 lbs.

!!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!

I have a little back-burner project in my box, that's so far
just a piece of vectorbord, a couple of screws and nuts, two
filter caps, a fuse, switch, bridge, and Mouser 12VAC 120mA
transformer, and it and about 4' of lamp cord weighs .40 lbs.

I.e., approx. 10X the power density.

I call that Magic. (Any sufficiently advanced technology...)
But my age approaches the national speed limit. Speaking
of age, has anybody ever noticed that, upon approaching some
important milestone, the approach seems asymptotic on some
level? Well, I ramble. %-}

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...
Haven't you moticed this trend before, Rich? After all, if you tried to
get 350 watts of power out of a linear power supply, the transformer
would weigh as much as your head! But that little power supply inside
your PeeCee is not much heavier than an empty metal box the same size.

Same thing goes for those 12V to 120V inverters.
 
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:03:31 GMT, "Garrett Mace" <g.ryan@macetech.com>
wrote:

"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:hMaWb.3925$1B6.1838@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
That's "Marginally on Topic." It's about an electronic thing,
but not an electronics post. I'm in a state of awe. Where's
the transporter and holodeck? I just got a HP scanjet 4600.
(and yes, it's 'a', not 'an', because that's the way HP says
it in their s/w registration card. apparently you're not
supposed to say, "an aitch-pee ..." but "a aitch-pee ..." ;-)
)
$149.99 at office max. I haven't got it all the way unpacked
yet - I noticed it uses a special cable with a female wall
wart jack on a flylead on the USB end. So I pull out the
wall wart, and it hefts like an empty plastic box - the
cord is heavier than the power supply, right? So I'm wondering,
how much power can they get out of this little wimpy thing?
Why not just pick off USB power? I look. input 100-120 V 60 Hz
600 mA; 12VDC, 1250mA.

in a package that, with about 6' of lamp cord, weighs .45 lbs.

!!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!

I have a little back-burner project in my box, that's so far
just a piece of vectorbord, a couple of screws and nuts, two
filter caps, a fuse, switch, bridge, and Mouser 12VAC 120mA
transformer, and it and about 4' of lamp cord weighs .40 lbs.

I.e., approx. 10X the power density.

I call that Magic. (Any sufficiently advanced technology...)
But my age approaches the national speed limit. Speaking
of age, has anybody ever noticed that, upon approaching some
important milestone, the approach seems asymptotic on some
level? Well, I ramble. %-}

Cheers!
Rich


Penn and Teller are now about to reveal what is inside the mysterious box.
After giving up on the *inverse* Torx head screws recessed into plastic with
no way to get pliers on them, and probably reverse-threaded, I used a saw.
This is a photo of the inside of a feather-light 6V 2000ma power supply for
a digital camera that has since passed on, and was about seven years old:
http://www.macetech.com/powersupply.jpg

Not at all surprising to us young whippersnappers, it's a switcher. These
days the switchers take up a lot less room too, with special-purpose ICs.
This power supply is probably twenty times more complex than your typical
transformer+rectifier+capacitor circuit, but the benefit (at least weight
vs. power-wise) is clear over heavy magnetics.

Yes, we got some neat toys to play with these days...but not quite as many
of us are making any money doing it. I'd never give up electronics, but
these two years out of school have nearly convinced me I will always need to
pay for it with some other job.

Hey man, it's the same for most of us.
Click to expand...
I've got a fine arts degree in cinematography as well as still
photography and a BS in photo science.(RIT yet.)
And over the many years have had to do many other things to pay the
bills. From Carpentry to landscaping and in between.
It's and old saw and getting more common every day.
While I was in LA back in the 80's trying desperately to break in to
the film industry I worked with a finish carpenter who was a graduate
of Psychiatry from Harvard medical school yet.
After establishing a successful practice in LA and working it for 2
years it was costing as much as he made to keep it going.
chucked it all in, got a pickup and some tools and took up the trade
of his father. He's work 6-8 months out of the year doing repair and
custom cabinet work and take a vacation in the winter and go to the
carribean. He averaged 100 grand a year and was a whole lot happier.
(Come to think of it I made more working for him than I ever did
managing photo labs or running a cine camera.)
Thank god I'm mostly retired now and just work on projects I want too.
 
Rich Grise wrote:
That's "Marginally on Topic." It's about an electronic thing,
but not an electronics post. I'm in a state of awe. Where's
the transporter and holodeck? I just got a HP scanjet 4600.
(and yes, it's 'a', not 'an', because that's the way HP says
it in their s/w registration card. apparently you're not
supposed to say, "an aitch-pee ..." but "a aitch-pee ..." ;-)
)
$149.99 at office max. I haven't got it all the way unpacked
yet - I noticed it uses a special cable with a female wall
wart jack on a flylead on the USB end. So I pull out the
wall wart, and it hefts like an empty plastic box - the
cord is heavier than the power supply, right? So I'm wondering,
how much power can they get out of this little wimpy thing?
Why not just pick off USB power? I look. input 100-120 V 60 Hz
600 mA; 12VDC, 1250mA.

in a package that, with about 6' of lamp cord, weighs .45 lbs.

!!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!

I have a little back-burner project in my box, that's so far
just a piece of vectorbord, a couple of screws and nuts, two
filter caps, a fuse, switch, bridge, and Mouser 12VAC 120mA
transformer, and it and about 4' of lamp cord weighs .40 lbs.

I.e., approx. 10X the power density.

I call that Magic. (Any sufficiently advanced technology...)
But my age approaches the national speed limit. Speaking
of age, has anybody ever noticed that, upon approaching some
important milestone, the approach seems asymptotic on some
level? Well, I ramble. %-}

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...
A few years ago,my G/f got a flatbed scanner for her PC,and the "wall
wart" was *extremely* light.I'm figuring there was nothing in there but
a cap,or power resistor to limit the current,and a rectifier diode,maybe
a zener diode,or something to chop it down to about 12Vdc.
The "empty" box ran fairly warm..
I don't think even a tiny SMPS would have fit in there,and been that
light..I honestly think there was just a dropping resistor and a
rectifier in that box!

perhaps I'll see if I can dig it up,and take it apart,since the scanner
has been sittin unused on the garage shelf for about 2 years now.
 
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:32:53 -0800, the renowned ptaylor
<ptaylor@qwest.net> wrote:

A few years ago,my G/f got a flatbed scanner for her PC,and the "wall
wart" was *extremely* light.I'm figuring there was nothing in there but
a cap,or power resistor to limit the current,and a rectifier diode,maybe
a zener diode,or something to chop it down to about 12Vdc.
The "empty" box ran fairly warm..
I don't think even a tiny SMPS would have fit in there,and been that
light..I honestly think there was just a dropping resistor and a
rectifier in that box!
Click to expand...
Wanna bet? $10 says it's a SMPS.

perhaps I'll see if I can dig it up,and take it apart,since the scanner
has been sittin unused on the garage shelf for about 2 years now.
Click to expand...
The latest generation of cheap wall-warts (3W or so) are almost the
size of a mains plug. They are still more expensive than linear ones,
but maybe not when you add $5-10/kg on for air shipment.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
"Rich Grise" <null@example.net> wrote:
That's "Marginally on Topic." It's about an electronic thing,
but not an electronics post. I'm in a state of awe. Where's
the transporter and holodeck? I just got a HP scanjet 4600.
[...]
So I pull out the
wall wart, and it hefts like an empty plastic box - the
cord is heavier than the power supply, right? So I'm wondering,
how much power can they get out of this little wimpy thing?
Why not just pick off USB power? I look. input 100-120 V 60 Hz
600 mA; 12VDC, 1250mA.
Click to expand...
The SMPS for my Siemens mobile phone, albeit a feeble 5V 400mA output,
is noticeably smaller and lighter than a normal 3-pin UK mains plug. I
guess the contents must be perhaps 1 1/4" x 2" x 1/3".


Tim
--
The .sig is dead.
 
"Spehro Pefhany >" <Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote
in message news:9uhk20lvcij4pukc08tl1ioth9nvuv7b1u@4ax.com...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:32:53 -0800, the renowned ptaylor
ptaylor@qwest.net> wrote:

A few years ago,my G/f got a flatbed scanner for her PC,and the "wall
wart" was *extremely* light.I'm figuring there was nothing in there but
a cap,or power resistor to limit the current,and a rectifier diode,maybe
a zener diode,or something to chop it down to about 12Vdc.
The "empty" box ran fairly warm..
I don't think even a tiny SMPS would have fit in there,and been that
light..I honestly think there was just a dropping resistor and a
rectifier in that box!

Wanna bet? $10 says it's a SMPS.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty safe bet, as seen in the photo I posted above (but this guy
seems to not pay attention to things like that, so this might be your chance
to make a little money, Speff).
 
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:08:05 -0600, the renowned "Garrett Mace"
<g.ryan@macetech.com> wrote:

"Spehro Pefhany >" <Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote
in message news:9uhk20lvcij4pukc08tl1ioth9nvuv7b1u@4ax.com...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:32:53 -0800, the renowned ptaylor
ptaylor@qwest.net> wrote:

A few years ago,my G/f got a flatbed scanner for her PC,and the "wall
wart" was *extremely* light.I'm figuring there was nothing in there but
a cap,or power resistor to limit the current,and a rectifier diode,maybe
a zener diode,or something to chop it down to about 12Vdc.
The "empty" box ran fairly warm..
I don't think even a tiny SMPS would have fit in there,and been that
light..I honestly think there was just a dropping resistor and a
rectifier in that box!

Wanna bet? $10 says it's a SMPS.


That's a pretty safe bet, as seen in the photo I posted above (but this guy
seems to not pay attention to things like that, so this might be your chance
to make a little money, Speff).
Click to expand...
It's still a gamble, It's just a guess. ;-) Of course if he's more
clever than ethical he'll open it up first and then decide whether to
"bet" or not.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
 
"ptaylor" <ptaylor@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:a5rWb.116$C%.16345@news.uswest.net...
Rich Grise wrote:
That's "Marginally on Topic." It's about an electronic thing,
but not an electronics post. I'm in a state of awe. Where's
the transporter and holodeck? I just got a HP scanjet 4600.
(and yes, it's 'a', not 'an', because that's the way HP says
it in their s/w registration card. apparently you're not
supposed to say, "an aitch-pee ..." but "a aitch-pee ..." ;-)
)
$149.99 at office max. I haven't got it all the way unpacked
yet - I noticed it uses a special cable with a female wall
wart jack on a flylead on the USB end. So I pull out the
wall wart, and it hefts like an empty plastic box - the
cord is heavier than the power supply, right? So I'm wondering,
how much power can they get out of this little wimpy thing?
Why not just pick off USB power? I look. input 100-120 V 60 Hz
600 mA; 12VDC, 1250mA.

in a package that, with about 6' of lamp cord, weighs .45 lbs.

!!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!

I have a little back-burner project in my box, that's so far
just a piece of vectorbord, a couple of screws and nuts, two
filter caps, a fuse, switch, bridge, and Mouser 12VAC 120mA
transformer, and it and about 4' of lamp cord weighs .40 lbs.

I.e., approx. 10X the power density.

I call that Magic. (Any sufficiently advanced technology...)
But my age approaches the national speed limit. Speaking
of age, has anybody ever noticed that, upon approaching some
important milestone, the approach seems asymptotic on some
level? Well, I ramble. %-}

Cheers!
Rich



A few years ago,my G/f got a flatbed scanner for her PC,and the "wall
wart" was *extremely* light.I'm figuring there was nothing in there
but
a cap,or power resistor to limit the current,and a rectifier
diode,maybe
a zener diode,or something to chop it down to about 12Vdc.
The "empty" box ran fairly warm..
I don't think even a tiny SMPS would have fit in there,and been that
light..I honestly think there was just a dropping resistor and a
rectifier in that box!

perhaps I'll see if I can dig it up,and take it apart,since the
scanner
has been sittin unused on the garage shelf for about 2 years now.
Click to expand...
Re: Rich's comment: Maybe it's like "An historical.." versus "A
historical.."

I once saw some schematic or layout of a chip that worked rather
differently. It took 120VAC, rectified and filtered it, and then
chopped it into some HF that would go thru a small value high voltage
capacitor without much loss. This small HV cap was the isolation
between the outside AC and the equipment. Then it was rectified and
filtered to DC on the equipment side. The usual SMPS uses a magnetic
field as the isolation between the line side and the equipment side. My
own personal thought here is that I trust the magnetic field, but I'd
rather not be near the other method, especially when there's a lightning
storm nearby.
 
"Spehro Pefhany >" <Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat>
wrote in message news:9uhk20lvcij4pukc08tl1ioth9nvuv7b1u@4ax.com...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:32:53 -0800, the renowned ptaylor
ptaylor@qwest.net> wrote:

A few years ago,my G/f got a flatbed scanner for her PC,and the "wall
wart" was *extremely* light.I'm figuring there was nothing in there
but
a cap,or power resistor to limit the current,and a rectifier
diode,maybe
a zener diode,or something to chop it down to about 12Vdc.
The "empty" box ran fairly warm..
I don't think even a tiny SMPS would have fit in there,and been that
light..I honestly think there was just a dropping resistor and a
rectifier in that box!

Wanna bet? $10 says it's a SMPS.

perhaps I'll see if I can dig it up,and take it apart,since the
scanner
has been sittin unused on the garage shelf for about 2 years now.

The latest generation of cheap wall-warts (3W or so) are almost the
size of a mains plug. They are still more expensive than linear ones,
but maybe not when you add $5-10/kg on for air shipment.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's the big problem. I saw a batch of 30 wall warts go for two
dollars on Ebay, but the shipping and handling was something like $30!

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the
reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers:
http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers:
http://www.speff.com
Click to expand...
 
Not really a new thing. I bought a Scanner 5 years ago, also supplied with
an Electronic Switching supply as the adapter. It Died (Fried Itself) after
4 years. Try and replace it, Lots of Fun!

Gary

Rich Grise <null@example.net> wrote in message
news:hMaWb.3925$1B6.1838@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
That's "Marginally on Topic." It's about an electronic thing,
but not an electronics post. I'm in a state of awe. Where's
the transporter and holodeck? I just got a HP scanjet 4600.
(and yes, it's 'a', not 'an', because that's the way HP says
it in their s/w registration card. apparently you're not
supposed to say, "an aitch-pee ..." but "a aitch-pee ..." ;-)
)
$149.99 at office max. I haven't got it all the way unpacked
yet - I noticed it uses a special cable with a female wall
wart jack on a flylead on the USB end. So I pull out the
wall wart, and it hefts like an empty plastic box - the
cord is heavier than the power supply, right? So I'm wondering,
how much power can they get out of this little wimpy thing?
Why not just pick off USB power? I look. input 100-120 V 60 Hz
600 mA; 12VDC, 1250mA.

in a package that, with about 6' of lamp cord, weighs .45 lbs.

!!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!

I have a little back-burner project in my box, that's so far
just a piece of vectorbord, a couple of screws and nuts, two
filter caps, a fuse, switch, bridge, and Mouser 12VAC 120mA
transformer, and it and about 4' of lamp cord weighs .40 lbs.

I.e., approx. 10X the power density.

I call that Magic. (Any sufficiently advanced technology...)
But my age approaches the national speed limit. Speaking
of age, has anybody ever noticed that, upon approaching some
important milestone, the approach seems asymptotic on some
level? Well, I ramble. %-}

Cheers!
Rich
Click to expand...
 
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