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What's the problem?The schematic here seems completely wrong to me.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec%20Sheets/50-7725.pdf
http://canada.newark.com/mcm-custom-audio/50-7725/audio-balun-rca-plug-rj45-shield/dp/96K0889
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
they isolated the two ends by placing them on opposite windings of aOn Sun, 5 May 2013 09:44:40 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
The schematic here seems completely wrong to me.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec%20Sheets/50-7725.pdf
http://canada.newark.com/mcm-custom-audio/50-7725/audio-balun-rca-plug-rj45-shield/dp/96K0889
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
What's the problem?
Will this design eliminate ground loop problems? My concept of baluns was that
That is a different thing. You need a transformer to kill a groundDon Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 09:44:40 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
The schematic here seems completely wrong to me.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec%20Sheets/50-7725.pdf
http://canada.newark.com/mcm-custom-audio/50-7725/audio-balun-rca-plug-rj45-shield/dp/96K0889
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
What's the problem?
Will this design eliminate ground loop problems? My concept of baluns was that
they isolated the two ends by placing them on opposite windings of a
transformer. I am no expert, which is why I asked.
It will stop ground loop problems for the range of frequencies where theDon Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 09:44:40 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
The schematic here seems completely wrong to me.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec%20Sheets/50-7725.pdf
http://canada.newark.com/mcm-custom-audio/50-7725/audio-balun-rca-plug-rj45
-shield/dp/96K0889
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
What's the problem?
Will this design eliminate ground loop problems? My concept of baluns was
that
they isolated the two ends by placing them on opposite windings of a
transformer. I am no expert, which is why I asked.
If there's enough inductance to attenuate 60 (or 50) Hz from the powerOn Sun, 5 May 2013 10:26:13 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 09:44:40 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
The schematic here seems completely wrong to me.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec%20Sheets/50-7725.pd
f
http://canada.newark.com/mcm-custom-audio/50-7725/audio-balun-rca-plug-rj4
5-shield/dp/96K0889
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
What's the problem?
Will this design eliminate ground loop problems? My concept of baluns was
that
they isolated the two ends by placing them on opposite windings of a
transformer. I am no expert, which is why I asked.
That is a different thing. You need a transformer to kill a ground
loop entirely, but yes, provided there is enough inductance in the
coils this will still make a good job of getting rid of hum from a
ground loop.
For any sort of well-designed and properly terminated transformer, theThe downside of the transformer method is that lower bass response is
usually somewhat compromised.
No, because of the way the windings are arranged their inductancesIn article <51869ac2.32412561@news.eternal-september.org>,
spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 10:26:13 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 09:44:40 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
The schematic here seems completely wrong to me.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec%20Sheets/50-7725.pd
f
http://canada.newark.com/mcm-custom-audio/50-7725/audio-balun-rca-plug-rj4
5-shield/dp/96K0889
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
What's the problem?
Will this design eliminate ground loop problems? My concept of baluns was
that
they isolated the two ends by placing them on opposite windings of a
transformer. I am no expert, which is why I asked.
That is a different thing. You need a transformer to kill a ground
loop entirely, but yes, provided there is enough inductance in the
coils this will still make a good job of getting rid of hum from a
ground loop.
If there's enough inductance to attenuate 60 (or 50) Hz from the power
line, why won't it do the same for similar frequencies in the desired
signal?
Effects strat becoming apparent well before you hit the 3dB point.The downside of the transformer method is that lower bass response is
usually somewhat compromised.
For any sort of well-designed and properly terminated transformer, the
lower 3dB point will be well below the frequency of any "musical note"
you'll ever want to pass through it. So, no, bass response won't be
compromised at all.
On Sun, 05 May 2013 23:04:35 -0700, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
In article <51869ac2.32412561@news.eternal-september.org>,
spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 10:26:13 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 09:44:40 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
The schematic here seems completely wrong to me.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec%20Sheets/50-7725.pd
f
http://canada.newark.com/mcm-custom-audio/50-7725/audio-balun-rca-plug-rj4
5-shield/dp/96K0889
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
What's the problem?
Will this design eliminate ground loop problems? My concept of
baluns was that
they isolated the two ends by placing them on opposite windings of
a transformer. I am no expert, which is why I asked.
That is a different thing. You need a transformer to kill a ground
loop entirely, but yes, provided there is enough inductance in the
coils this will still make a good job of getting rid of hum from a
ground loop.
If there's enough inductance to attenuate 60 (or 50) Hz from the
power line, why won't it do the same for similar frequencies in the
desired signal?
No, because of the way the windings are arranged their inductances
cancel each other out for the audio signal, but not for the induced
hum.
The downside of the transformer method is that lower bass response
is usually somewhat compromised.
For any sort of well-designed and properly terminated transformer,
the lower 3dB point will be well below the frequency of any "musical
note" you'll ever want to pass through it. So, no, bass response
won't be compromised at all.
Effects strat becoming apparent well before you hit the 3dB point.
d
The windings being on a transformer arranged so that common mode noise cancels,On Sun, 05 May 2013 23:04:35 -0700, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
What's the problem?
Will this design eliminate ground loop problems? My concept of
baluns was that
they isolated the two ends by placing them on opposite windings of
a transformer. I am no expert, which is why I asked.
That is a different thing. You need a transformer to kill a ground
loop entirely, but yes, provided there is enough inductance in the
coils this will still make a good job of getting rid of hum from a
ground loop.
If there's enough inductance to attenuate 60 (or 50) Hz from the
power line, why won't it do the same for similar frequencies in the
desired signal?
No, because of the way the windings are arranged their inductances
cancel each other out for the audio signal, but not for the induced
hum.
Which was exactly why I posted the question. At the least, there is a DC(/LF)I was going to get involved in this conversation, but have decided
not to. All I know is that the schematics don't make much sense
(primarily because there doesn't seem to be "proper" isolation
between the bal and the un.
Which seems to kill the whole reason for baluns, does it not?I was going to get involved in this conversation, but have decided
not to. All I know is that the schematics don't make much sense
(primarily because there doesn't seem to be "proper" isolation
between the bal and the un).
Which was exactly why I posted the question. At the least, there
is a DC(/LF) path from one end to the other.
sides. That means that the forward and reverse signal currents on theDon Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 05 May 2013 23:04:35 -0700, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
What's the problem?
Will this design eliminate ground loop problems? My concept of
baluns was that
they isolated the two ends by placing them on opposite windings of
a transformer. I am no expert, which is why I asked.
That is a different thing. You need a transformer to kill a ground
loop entirely, but yes, provided there is enough inductance in the
coils this will still make a good job of getting rid of hum from a
ground loop.
If there's enough inductance to attenuate 60 (or 50) Hz from the
power line, why won't it do the same for similar frequencies in the
desired signal?
No, because of the way the windings are arranged their inductances
cancel each other out for the audio signal, but not for the induced
hum.
The windings being on a transformer arranged so that common mode noise cancels,
and the signal doesn't?
That's it. The windings are wound in the same direction on the two
Isolation is not implied in the function. As long as the signal on theI was going to get involved in this conversation, but have decided not to. All
I know is that the schematics don't make much sense (primarily because there
doesn't seem to be "proper" isolation between the bal and the un.
Nope, nothing to do with it - unless you require performance down toI was going to get involved in this conversation, but have decided
not to. All I know is that the schematics don't make much sense
(primarily because there doesn't seem to be "proper" isolation
between the bal and the un).
Which was exactly why I posted the question. At the least, there
is a DC(/LF) path from one end to the other.
Which seems to kill the whole reason for baluns, does it not?
Is this design going to avoid ground loop problems? Those signals would just beOn Mon, 6 May 2013 07:08:15 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 05 May 2013 23:04:35 -0700, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
What's the problem?
Will this design eliminate ground loop problems? My concept of
baluns was that
they isolated the two ends by placing them on opposite windings
of a transformer. I am no expert, which is why I asked.
That is a different thing. You need a transformer to kill a ground
loop entirely, but yes, provided there is enough inductance in the
coils this will still make a good job of getting rid of hum from a
ground loop.
If there's enough inductance to attenuate 60 (or 50) Hz from the
power line, why won't it do the same for similar frequencies in the
desired signal?
No, because of the way the windings are arranged their inductances
cancel each other out for the audio signal, but not for the induced
hum.
The windings being on a transformer arranged so that common mode
noise cancels, and the signal doesn't?
That's it. The windings are wound in the same direction on the two
sides. That means that the forward and reverse signal currents on the
two windings are always in opposite directions magnetically. So the
signal doesn't see any net inductance.
The ground loop is fixed by the inductance presenting a huge seriesDon Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 6 May 2013 07:08:15 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 05 May 2013 23:04:35 -0700, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
What's the problem?
Will this design eliminate ground loop problems? My concept of
baluns was that
they isolated the two ends by placing them on opposite windings
of a transformer. I am no expert, which is why I asked.
That is a different thing. You need a transformer to kill a ground
loop entirely, but yes, provided there is enough inductance in the
coils this will still make a good job of getting rid of hum from a
ground loop.
If there's enough inductance to attenuate 60 (or 50) Hz from the
power line, why won't it do the same for similar frequencies in the
desired signal?
No, because of the way the windings are arranged their inductances
cancel each other out for the audio signal, but not for the induced
hum.
The windings being on a transformer arranged so that common mode
noise cancels, and the signal doesn't?
That's it. The windings are wound in the same direction on the two
sides. That means that the forward and reverse signal currents on the
two windings are always in opposite directions magnetically. So the
signal doesn't see any net inductance.
Is this design going to avoid ground loop problems? Those signals would just be
on the one side, so would they be canceled?
The schematic here seems completely wrong to me.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec%20Sheets/50-7725.pdf
This datasheet shows it is a VIDEO balun.
I'd sure like to see (and measure) those inductors. My "spidey sense"On Sun, 05 May 2013 23:04:35 -0700, isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
In article <51869ac2.32412561@news.eternal-september.org>,
spam@spam.com (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 10:26:13 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 5 May 2013 09:44:40 -0700, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com
wrote:
The schematic here seems completely wrong to me.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/ProductData/Spec%20Sheets/50-7725
.pd
f
http://canada.newark.com/mcm-custom-audio/50-7725/audio-balun-rca-plug-
rj4
5-shield/dp/96K0889
Looks OK to me. It's configured as a series common mode stopper.
What's the problem?
Will this design eliminate ground loop problems? My concept of baluns was
that
they isolated the two ends by placing them on opposite windings of a
transformer. I am no expert, which is why I asked.
That is a different thing. You need a transformer to kill a ground
loop entirely, but yes, provided there is enough inductance in the
coils this will still make a good job of getting rid of hum from a
ground loop.
If there's enough inductance to attenuate 60 (or 50) Hz from the power
line, why won't it do the same for similar frequencies in the desired
signal?
No, because of the way the windings are arranged their inductances
cancel each other out for the audio signal, but not for the induced
hum.
Know anybody who can hear the difference *on actual program material*The downside of the transformer method is that lower bass response is
usually somewhat compromised.
For any sort of well-designed and properly terminated transformer, the
lower 3dB point will be well below the frequency of any "musical note"
you'll ever want to pass through it. So, no, bass response won't be
compromised at all.
Effects strat becoming apparent well before you hit the 3dB point.
The kind of sense the schematics make is economic -- to the seller.I was going to get involved in this conversation, but have decided not to.
All
I know is that the schematics don't make much sense (primarily because there
doesn't seem to be "proper" isolation between the bal and the un.