Is this overkill? (A "burn-in" warning and "uneven-aging" w

[jaynews]

Do I really have to worry about burn-in or uneven aging if watching too much 4:3 material, or too much CNBC, etc. on an LED-backlit LCD TV?

I haven't been getting "burn in" or anything else on my plain-old LCD monitors....is LED backlit really more subject to burn-in and uneven-aging than plain old LCD with flourescent bulbs as the backlight?

From the user manual:

_____________________________________________________________
Wide screen format TVs (with 16:9 aspect ratios, the ratio of the screen width to height) are primarily designed to view wide screen format full-motion
video. The images displayed on them should primarily be in the wide screen 16:9 ratio format, or expanded to fill the screen if your model offers this
feature, with the images constantly in motion. Displaying stationary graphics and images on the screen, such as the dark sidebars on non-expanded
standard format television video and programming, should be limited to no more than 5% of the total television viewing per week.
Additionally, viewing other stationary images and text such as stock market crawls, video game displays, station logos, web sites or computer graphics
and patterns, should be limited as described above for all televisions. Displaying stationary images for more than 5% of total viewing time can cause
uneven aging of your TV and leave subtle, but permanent burned-in ghost images in the LED picture. To avoid this, vary the programming and images,
and primarily display full screen moving images, not stationary patterns or dark bars. On LED models that offer picture sizing features, use these controls
to view different formats as a full screen picture. Be careful in the selection of television formats you use for viewing and the amount of time you view them.
Uneven LED aging as a result of format selection and use, as well as burned in images, are not covered by your Samsung limited warranty.

Still image warning

Avoid displaying still images (such as jpeg picture files), still image elements (such as TV channel logos, stock or news bars at the screen bottom etc.),
or programs in panorama or 4:3 image format on the screen. Constantly displaying still pictures can cause image burn-in on the screen, which will affect
image quality. To reduce risk of this effect, please follow the recommendations below:
• Avoid displaying the same TV channel for long periods.
• Always try to display a full screen image.
• Reduce brightness and contrast to avoid the appearance of after-images.
• Use all TV features designed to reduce image retention and screen burn. Refer to proper user manual section for details.
____________________________________________________

 

[Phil Allison]

"jaynews"

Do I really have to worry about burn-in or uneven aging if watching too much
4:3 material, or too much CNBC, etc. on an LED-backlit LCD TV?

I haven't been getting "burn in" or anything else on my plain-old LCD
monitors....is LED backlit really more subject to burn-in and uneven-aging
than plain old LCD with flourescent bulbs as the backlight?

From the user manual:


** Same warning goes with nearly every LCD, Plasma or CRT TV.

AFAIK - the LEDs have nothing to do with it.

All it really means is that if you DO get some burn in - the maker does
not cover it under warranty.



.... Phil

 

[Leif Neland]

Den 02-09-2013, skrev jaynews:

Do I really have to worry about burn-in or uneven aging if watching too much
4:3 material, or too much CNBC, etc. on an LED-backlit LCD TV?

I haven't been getting "burn in" or anything else on my plain-old LCD
monitors....is LED backlit really more subject to burn-in and uneven-aging
than plain old LCD with flourescent bulbs as the backlight?

Nothing to do with the backlight.

You could probably tear off the backlight, put the LCD in front of a
window and get the same amount of burn-in.

--
Husk křrelys bagpĺ, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

I know of no burn-in mechanism associated with any type of LCD display (though
individual pixels can get "stuck", and require "exercising" to free up).

Plasma displays are another matter. I would burn in the set with at least 80
hours of full-screen display, or a "noise" image, before even considering
watching Panavision, or even 1:1.85 films. The claims that burn-in damage
cannot occur are bald-faced lies.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <l028gp$m15$1@dont-email.me>, William Sommerwerck
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> escribió:
>I know of no burn-in mechanism associated with any type of LCD display

You've misunderstood the question. The OP is talking about screen burn,
not burning-in a device (part of post-manufacture testing).

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

 

[dave]

On 09/02/2013 08:45 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

En el artículo <l028gp$m15$1@dont-email.me>, William Sommerwerck
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> escribió:
I know of no burn-in mechanism associated with any type of LCD display

You've misunderstood the question. The OP is talking about screen burn,
not burning-in a device (part of post-manufacture testing).

I think you misunderstood maybe the answer.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message news:X$xGLbJLKLJSFwKq@jasper.org.uk...
En el artículo <l028gp$m15$1@dont-email.me>, William Sommerwerck
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> escribió:

I know of no burn-in mechanism associated with any type of LCD display

You've misunderstood the question. The OP is talking about screen burn,
not burning-in a device (part of post-manufacture testing).

I knew exactly what he was talking about. "Burn-in" might not be the best term
("break-in" might be better), but it is a fact that, during the first 100
hours or so of plasma operation, it is possible to "age" the screen unevenly.
I know, because I did it to my display.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Just to clarify the point... "screen burn" refers to leaving a bright,
unmoving area on the screen for an excessive length of time. This can cause a
temporary ghost image -- or a permanent burn if it lasts too long.

 

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker"

>I know of no burn-in mechanism associated with any type of LCD display

** Bragging about your ignorance again?

FFS - Google the damn topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_burn-in#Plasma.2C_LCD_and_OLED_displays



.... Phil

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:b8kljsFe5j4U1@mid.individual.net...
"William Sommerwerck"

> I know of no burn-in mechanism associated with any type of LCD display.

** Bragging about your ignorance again?

Showing your inability to read again?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_burn-in#Plasma.2C_LCD_and_OLED_displays

You're misreading the article. I have never heard of "stuck" LCD pixels
described as a form of "burn in".

Phil strikes me as the sort of person who would never admit to being ignorant
about anything. It's hard to imagine him ever saying "I don't understand
thus-and-such. Would someone please explain it?"

 

[Phil Allison]

"William Sommerwanker = Fuckhead "

I know of no burn-in mechanism associated with any type of LCD display.

** Bragging about your ignorance again?

Showing your inability to read again?

** The person with seriously faulty reading comprehension is YOU .

And YOU have admitted it - right here.

://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_burn-in#Plasma.2C_LCD_and_OLED_displays

You're misreading the article.

** Not in the slightest.

YOU refuse to see what is right in front of you !!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emerson-McDonalds_CNN_Burn-In.jpg


> I have never heard of "stuck" LCD pixels described as a form of "burn in".

** FFS the info is ALL OVER THE WEB !!!!!!!!!

**** " FFS - Google the damn topic " ******

Phil strikes me .............

** Phil would dearly love to kick your fat, pig ignorant ass right into
orbit.




..... Phil

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <l02n6v$h6i$1@dont-email.me>, William Sommerwerck
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> escribió:

Just to clarify the point... "screen burn" refers to leaving a bright,
unmoving area on the screen for an excessive length of time. This can cause a
temporary ghost image -- or a permanent burn if it lasts too long.

That's what I was referring to.

I think we've used confusing terminology here - 'screen burn' vs. 'burn-
in' vs. 'premature ageing and screen burn on plasma screens'.

"but it is a fact that, during the first 100 hours or so of plasma
operation, it is possible to "age" the screen unevenly"

I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the heads-up.

http://plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

 

[Pat]

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 08:12:11 +0100, Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk>
wrote:

En el artículo <l02n6v$h6i$1@dont-email.me>, William Sommerwerck
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> escribió:

Just to clarify the point... "screen burn" refers to leaving a bright,
unmoving area on the screen for an excessive length of time. This can cause a
temporary ghost image -- or a permanent burn if it lasts too long.

That's what I was referring to.

I think we've used confusing terminology here - 'screen burn' vs. 'burn-
in' vs. 'premature ageing and screen burn on plasma screens'.

"but it is a fact that, during the first 100 hours or so of plasma
operation, it is possible to "age" the screen unevenly"

I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the heads-up.

http://plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I can tell you from
first hand experience that a burn-in like symptom is possible on LCD
displays. About six years ago, I was involved in the design of a
piece of industrial equipment with a 15" LCD display. We started
getting field reports about burn-in. My first reaction was the
customers are imaging things because burn-in only happens on CRT's.
However, after further research, we learned that LCDs can experience a
similar looking symptom caused by electrons migrating through an
insulator and essentially charging up an unwanted capacitance in the
panel. It would eventually disapate, but it could take months to do
so. We ended up using "screen saver" like procedures (moving things
around) to stop it from happening. So, nothing was actually
burning-in but it sure looked like it.

Pat

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:b8l902FhjnuU1@mid.individual.net...

** Phil would dearly love to kick your fat, pig ignorant ass right into
orbit.

Why don't you stop by and give it a try? Oh, you live in Great Britain, so you
can't? How convenient.

 

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <l04jvg$97t$1@dont-email.me>, William Sommerwerck
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> escribió:

Why don't you stop by and give it a try? Oh, you live in Great Britain, so you
can't? How convenient.

Allison is Australian, which explains a lot.

If you're aware of the unpleasant troll called "Rod Speed" that infests
various groups, he's Australian too.

Mind you, you have to take into account that these are the descendants
of the criminals that the Brits shipped off to van Diemen's land many
years ago during transportation.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message news:Cpqj+9JnWdJSFwpN@jasper.org.uk...

Allison is Australian, which explains a lot.

If you're aware of the unpleasant troll called "Rod Speed" that infests
various groups, he's Australian too.

Mind you, you have to take into account that these are the descendants
of the criminals that the Brits shipped off to van Diemen's land many
years ago during transportation.

Thanks for the correction.

I visited Australia in 1976. Loved the country, loved the people. I did not
sense any sort of "criminal culture" in Australian society.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Pat" <pat@nospam.us> wrote in message
news:n4kb29llungoa7j6ji0bc28ss22oukdmrb@4ax.com...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 08:12:11 +0100, Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk
wrote:

En el artículo <l02n6v$h6i$1@dont-email.me>, William Sommerwerck
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> escribió:

Just to clarify the point... "screen burn" refers to leaving a bright,
unmoving area on the screen for an excessive length of time. This can
cause a
temporary ghost image -- or a permanent burn if it lasts too long.

That's what I was referring to.

I think we've used confusing terminology here - 'screen burn' vs. 'burn-
in' vs. 'premature ageing and screen burn on plasma screens'.

"but it is a fact that, during the first 100 hours or so of plasma
operation, it is possible to "age" the screen unevenly"

I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the heads-up.

http://plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I can tell you from
first hand experience that a burn-in like symptom is possible on LCD
displays. About six years ago, I was involved in the design of a
piece of industrial equipment with a 15" LCD display. We started
getting field reports about burn-in. My first reaction was the
customers are imaging things because burn-in only happens on CRT's.
However, after further research, we learned that LCDs can experience a
similar looking symptom caused by electrons migrating through an
insulator and essentially charging up an unwanted capacitance in the
panel. It would eventually disapate, but it could take months to do
so. We ended up using "screen saver" like procedures (moving things
around) to stop it from happening. So, nothing was actually
burning-in but it sure looked like it.

Pat

Another slight possibility occurs to me. I've no idea whether the Samsung in
question uses the technique, but some Sony LCD TVs drive the backlight LEDs
in a 'dynamic' rather than static way. It supposedly enhances the apparent
contrast ratio. Friend of mine in the trade bought one, and hated the
picture so much that he returned it and bought a different model with static
backlighting.

Anyway, the point. It is a fact that LEDs age, and the harder they are
driven, the faster they age. Now if all the LEDs are always on at the same
intensity, they will, theoretically at least, all age together, and their
light output will drop uniformly. However, if a bunch of them are always
off, as they would be viewing 4:3 for instance, or some are always on behind
a static high intensity area on an image, then the LEDs must age at a
different rate, so again in theory, it might be possible to end up with LEDs
in some areas that produce more or less light than others for the same
current level through them ??

I can't imagine for a moment that this would actually be significant enough
to see under any circumstances within the lifetime of the rest of the TV,
but who knows ?

Arfa

 

[dave]

On 09/03/2013 12:12 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

En el artículo <l02n6v$h6i$1@dont-email.me>, William Sommerwerck
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> escribió:

Just to clarify the point... "screen burn" refers to leaving a bright,
unmoving area on the screen for an excessive length of time. This can cause a
temporary ghost image -- or a permanent burn if it lasts too long.

That's what I was referring to.

I think we've used confusing terminology here - 'screen burn' vs. 'burn-
in' vs. 'premature ageing and screen burn on plasma screens'.

"but it is a fact that, during the first 100 hours or so of plasma
operation, it is possible to "age" the screen unevenly"

I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the heads-up.

http://plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html

I worked at channel 4. I've seen a lot of TVs with "permanent bugs". The
gold 4 was especially good at etching plasmas.

 

[dave]

On 09/03/2013 08:03 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message news:Cpqj+9JnWdJSFwpN@jasper.org.uk...

Allison is Australian, which explains a lot.

If you're aware of the unpleasant troll called "Rod Speed" that infests
various groups, he's Australian too.

Mind you, you have to take into account that these are the descendants
of the criminals that the Brits shipped off to van Diemen's land many
years ago during transportation.

Thanks for the correction.

I visited Australia in 1976. Loved the country, loved the people. I did
not sense any sort of "criminal culture" in Australian society.

Of course not...they just let people drown for fun.

 

[dave]

On 09/03/2013 09:05 AM, Arfa Daily wrote:

"Pat" <pat@nospam.us> wrote in message
news:n4kb29llungoa7j6ji0bc28ss22oukdmrb@4ax.com...
On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 08:12:11 +0100, Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk
wrote:

En el artículo <l02n6v$h6i$1@dont-email.me>, William Sommerwerck
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> escribió:

Just to clarify the point... "screen burn" refers to leaving a bright,
unmoving area on the screen for an excessive length of time. This
can cause a
temporary ghost image -- or a permanent burn if it lasts too long.

That's what I was referring to.

I think we've used confusing terminology here - 'screen burn' vs. 'burn-
in' vs. 'premature ageing and screen burn on plasma screens'.

"but it is a fact that, during the first 100 hours or so of plasma
operation, it is possible to "age" the screen unevenly"

I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the heads-up.

http://plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I can tell you from
first hand experience that a burn-in like symptom is possible on LCD
displays. About six years ago, I was involved in the design of a
piece of industrial equipment with a 15" LCD display. We started
getting field reports about burn-in. My first reaction was the
customers are imaging things because burn-in only happens on CRT's.
However, after further research, we learned that LCDs can experience a
similar looking symptom caused by electrons migrating through an
insulator and essentially charging up an unwanted capacitance in the
panel. It would eventually disapate, but it could take months to do
so. We ended up using "screen saver" like procedures (moving things
around) to stop it from happening. So, nothing was actually
burning-in but it sure looked like it.

Pat

Another slight possibility occurs to me. I've no idea whether the
Samsung in question uses the technique, but some Sony LCD TVs drive the
backlight LEDs in a 'dynamic' rather than static way. It supposedly
enhances the apparent contrast ratio. Friend of mine in the trade bought
one, and hated the picture so much that he returned it and bought a
different model with static backlighting.

Anyway, the point. It is a fact that LEDs age, and the harder they are
driven, the faster they age. Now if all the LEDs are always on at the
same intensity, they will, theoretically at least, all age together, and
their light output will drop uniformly. However, if a bunch of them are
always off, as they would be viewing 4:3 for instance, or some are
always on behind a static high intensity area on an image, then the LEDs
must age at a different rate, so again in theory, it might be possible
to end up with LEDs in some areas that produce more or less light than
others for the same current level through them ??

I can't imagine for a moment that this would actually be significant
enough to see under any circumstances within the lifetime of the rest of
the TV, but who knows ?

Arfa

Some people actually leave the display "show room bright" aka 6400K
degrees color temp for the entire truncated life of the set. TV control
rooms use 3200 or maybe 4K. I'm still on my first HD set,
Toshiba/Tektronix 50" DLP. Also have a 48 inch NEC LCD off the junk pile
at work (in garage workshop) and an LED backlit LG in the bedroom. The
LED backlight should dim when "black" is shown, but you can see them
"idling" if you know where to look.