Is this device physically-possible?

G

GreenXenon

Guest
Hi:

Please don’t get upset at me.

I apologize profusely for posting something so similar to yesterday in
a different thread. However, you will notice some difference as you
read. I was confused when I posted yesterday.

Does a device that switches frequency [in number of Hz] with peak-to-
peak amplitude [in number of in photon(s)-per-second-per-square-meter]
– and visa versa -- exist? If not, is it possible to construct one?

In this device, the input of a signal that has a frequency of X Hz and
a peak-to-peak amplitude of Y photon-per-second-per-square-meter
will result in the output of a signal that has a frequency of Y Hz and
a peak-to-peak amplitude of X photon-per-second-per-square-meter.


Thanks
 
On Fri, 08 May 2009 14:27:16 -0700, GreenXenon wrote:

I apologize profusely for posting something so similar to yesterday in
a different thread. However, you will notice some difference as you
read. I was confused when I posted yesterday.

Does a device that switches frequency [in number of Hz] with peak-to-
peak amplitude [in number of in photon(s)-per-second-per-square-meter]
- and visa versa -- exist? If not, is it possible to construct one?

In this device, the input of a signal that has a frequency of X Hz and
a peak-to-peak amplitude of Y photon-per-second-per-square-meter
will result in the output of a signal that has a frequency of Y Hz and
a peak-to-peak amplitude of X photon-per-second-per-square-meter.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_frequency_multiplier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_harmonic_generation

Except, any real device will have losses, so if you double the frequency,
you would get fewer than half as many photons out of it.
 
GreenXenon wrote:
On May 8, 5:15 pm, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:


Light and RF are the same things.


What about electric current from 20 Hz to 20 KHz?


0 Hz will be a big problem


Why?


but
assuming you don't mind not quite getting to zero, I may have an idea
for you.


Ok.


There are quantum physical effects that depend on the strength of the
magnetic field. Some of the examples of such things differ by a
factor of two between atom types. This means that in a mixed
environment, one type of atom can absorb the RF at one frequency and
the other can radiate at the other. The energy gets from one to the
other when the bump into each other.


One of the purposes of this hypothetical device I'm daydreaming about
is the ability to get a higher-frequency signal from a bunch of lower-
frequency signals.

For example, achieving a 2 Hz by using two 1 Hz signals together.
Look at "balanced mixer".
Click to expand...
Please scroll down on that page and study the examples.

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/datasheets/multiplier/mc1496apnote.pdf


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"
 
On May 8, 2:49 pm, Nobody <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:

On Fri, 08 May 2009 14:27:16 -0700, GreenXenon wrote:
I apologize profusely for posting something so similar to yesterday in
a different thread. However, you will notice some difference as you
read. I was confused when I posted yesterday.

Does a device that switches frequency [in number of Hz] with peak-to-
peak amplitude [in number of in photon(s)-per-second-per-square-meter]
- and visa versa -- exist? If not, is it possible to construct one?

In this device, the input of a signal that has a frequency of X Hz and
a peak-to-peak amplitude of Y photon-per-second-per-square-meter
will result in the output of a signal that has a frequency of Y Hz and
a peak-to-peak amplitude of X photon-per-second-per-square-meter.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_frequency_multiplierhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_harmonic_generation

Except, any real device will have losses, so if you double the frequency,
you would get fewer than half as many photons out of it.
Click to expand...

But I'm talking about electric signals from 0 Hz to TeraHz range. Not
optical wavelengths.

Photon is the quantum of electromagnetic radiation at any frequency,
not necessarily optical frequencies.

Power lines in USA involve 60 Hz photons. 50 Hz photons in Europe. Any
electric current that is not pure DC will generate photons of the same
frequency it oscillates at.

It's also true that a higher-frequency electric signal will have more
watts-per-square-meter than a lower-frequency electric signal with the
same amount of photon(s)-per-second-per-square-meter. This is because
higher-frequency photons are more energetic than lower-frequency
photons.

To generate an electromagnetic signal of a higher-frequency requires
more power [for the same amount of photon(s)-per-second-per-square-
meter] than a lower-frequency EM signal.
 
On May 8, 4:24 pm, GreenXenon <glucege...@gmail.com> wrote:
On May 8, 2:49 pm, Nobody <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:



On Fri, 08 May 2009 14:27:16 -0700, GreenXenon wrote:
I apologize profusely for posting something so similar to yesterday in
a different thread. However, you will notice some difference as you
read. I was confused when I posted yesterday.

Does a device that switches frequency [in number of Hz] with peak-to-
peak amplitude [in number of in photon(s)-per-second-per-square-meter]
- and visa versa -- exist? If not, is it possible to construct one?

In this device, the input of a signal that has a frequency of X Hz and
a peak-to-peak amplitude of Y photon-per-second-per-square-meter
will result in the output of a signal that has a frequency of Y Hz and
a peak-to-peak amplitude of X photon-per-second-per-square-meter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_frequency_multiplierhttp://en.wi...

Except, any real device will have losses, so if you double the frequency,
you would get fewer than half as many photons out of it.

But I'm talking about electric signals from 0 Hz to TeraHz range. Not
optical wavelengths.
Click to expand...

Light and RF are the same things. 0 Hz will be a big problem but
assuming you don't mind not quite getting to zero, I may have an idea
for you.

There are quantum physical effects that depend on the strength of the
magnetic field. Some of the examples of such things differ by a
factor of two between atom types. This means that in a mixed
environment, one type of atom can absorb the RF at one frequency and
the other can radiate at the other. The energy gets from one to the
other when the bump into each other.


Photon is the quantum of electromagnetic radiation at any frequency,
not necessarily optical frequencies.

Power lines in USA involve 60 Hz photons. 50 Hz photons in Europe. Any
electric current that is not pure DC will generate photons of the same
frequency it oscillates at.

It's also true that a higher-frequency electric signal will have more
watts-per-square-meter than a lower-frequency electric signal with the
same amount of photon(s)-per-second-per-square-meter. This is because
higher-frequency photons are more energetic than lower-frequency
photons.

To generate an electromagnetic signal of a higher-frequency requires
more power [for the same amount of photon(s)-per-second-per-square-
meter] than a lower-frequency EM signal.
Click to expand...
 
On May 8, 5:15 pm, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:

Light and RF are the same things.
Click to expand...
What about electric current from 20 Hz to 20 KHz?

0 Hz will be a big problem
Click to expand...
Why?

but
assuming you don't mind not quite getting to zero, I may have an idea
for you.
Click to expand...
Ok.

There are quantum physical effects that depend on the strength of the
magnetic field. Some of the examples of such things differ by a
factor of two between atom types. This means that in a mixed
environment, one type of atom can absorb the RF at one frequency and
the other can radiate at the other. The energy gets from one to the
other when the bump into each other.
Click to expand...
One of the purposes of this hypothetical device I'm daydreaming about
is the ability to get a higher-frequency signal from a bunch of lower-
frequency signals.

For example, achieving a 2 Hz by using two 1 Hz signals together.
 
On May 8, 7:24 pm, GreenXenon <glucege...@gmail.com> wrote:
On May 8, 5:15 pm, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:

Light and RF are the same things.

What about electric current from 20 Hz to 20 KHz?
Click to expand...
Long wavelength light. You can make radio waves at these frequencies.

0 Hz will be a big problem

Why?
Click to expand...
See Maxwell's equations.
 
On Fri, 08 May 2009 20:40:12 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

GreenXenon wrote:
On May 8, 5:15 pm, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:


Light and RF are the same things.


What about electric current from 20 Hz to 20 KHz?


0 Hz will be a big problem


Why?


but
assuming you don't mind not quite getting to zero, I may have an idea
for you.


Ok.


There are quantum physical effects that depend on the strength of the
magnetic field. Some of the examples of such things differ by a
factor of two between atom types. This means that in a mixed
environment, one type of atom can absorb the RF at one frequency and
the other can radiate at the other. The energy gets from one to the
other when the bump into each other.


One of the purposes of this hypothetical device I'm daydreaming about
is the ability to get a higher-frequency signal from a bunch of lower-
frequency signals.

For example, achieving a 2 Hz by using two 1 Hz signals together.
Look at "balanced mixer".
Please scroll down on that page and study the examples.

http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/sdiy/datasheets/multiplier/mc1496apnote.pdf
Click to expand...
Nice.

Must be what Marki Microwave puts inside their mixers.
http://www.markimicrowave.com/
 
On May 8, 5:24 pm, GreenXenon <glucege...@gmail.com> wrote:
On May 8, 5:15 pm, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:

Light and RF are the same things.

What about electric current from 20 Hz to 20 KHz?
At these low of frequencies, the wavelength is very long and the
Click to expand...
photons have very low energy. This would mean that the device to do
the function quantum physically or optically would have to be fairly
large. It would perhaps have to be a few light seconds across.


0 Hz will be a big problem

Why?
Click to expand...
The universe is only about 15 billion light years across so the lower
limit on frequencies would be about 10^-10 Hz. Any lower than that
and you would need to create a new universe to do it in.


 but
assuming you don't mind not quite getting to zero, I may have an idea
for you.

Ok.



There are quantum physical effects that depend on the strength of the
magnetic field.  Some of the examples of such things differ by a
factor of two between atom types.  This means that in a mixed
environment, one type of atom can absorb the RF at one frequency and
the other can radiate at the other.  The energy gets from one to the
other when the bump into each other.

One of the purposes of this hypothetical device I'm daydreaming about
is the ability to get a higher-frequency signal from a bunch of lower-
frequency signals.

For example, achieving a 2 Hz by using two 1 Hz signals together.
Click to expand...
Why don't you just apply the signals to some very nonlinear device?
 
On May 9, 8:13 am, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:

On May 8, 5:24 pm, GreenXenon <glucege...@gmail.com> wrote:> On May 8, 5:15 pm, MooseFET <kensm...@rahul.net> wrote:


Light and RF are the same things.


What about electric current from 20 Hz to 20 KHz?


At these low of frequencies, the wavelength is very long and the
photons have very low energy. This would mean that the device to do
the function quantum physically or optically would have to be fairly
large. It would perhaps have to be a few light seconds across.
Click to expand...
But the photons are not what are being used for the signal processing.
It's the electrons [making up the electronic signal] that are used.
Photons are just the result of the AC electric current that
constitutes the signal.

Any AC current will generate photons of the same frequency.

The device I'm talking about is not photonic, it is purely-electronic.

0 Hz will be a big problem

Why?


The universe is only about 15 billion light years across so the lower
limit on frequencies would be about 10^-10 Hz. Any lower than that
and you would need to create a new universe to do it in.
Click to expand...
Ok

but
assuming you don't mind not quite getting to zero, I may have an idea
for you.

Ok.


There are quantum physical effects that depend on the strength of the
magnetic field. Some of the examples of such things differ by a
factor of two between atom types. This means that in a mixed
environment, one type of atom can absorb the RF at one frequency and
the other can radiate at the other. The energy gets from one to the
other when the bump into each other.


One of the purposes of this hypothetical device I'm daydreaming about
is the ability to get a higher-frequency signal from a bunch of lower-
frequency signals.


For example, achieving a 2 Hz by using two 1 Hz signals together.


Why don't you just apply the signals to some very nonlinear device?
Click to expand...
Can such a device perform the aforementioned amplitude to frequency
[and visa versa] conversions?

BTW, please forgive me. I should use the term electron-per-second-
per-square-meter, instead of photon-per-second-per-square-meter.
Since it's electrons that are the signals.

An electric signal with more amplitude will have more electron-per-
second-per-square-meter than an electric signal with less amplitude.

If it's electron-per-second-per-square-meter instead of photon-
per-second-per-square-meter, will my device work better? I'm guessing
so. I could be wrong though.
 
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