Is this common for a brushless motor controller?

[John Doe]

Of course power is important. But given a specific power, battery
capacity and efficiency determine run time. And run time is everything
in powerful cordless tools that suck current.

Go to DeWalt's website and look at their new brushless motor powered
drills. The first three listed qualities tout efficiency and run time.

Product Features

DEWALT-built high power, high efficiency brushless motor--650 unit
watts out (UWO) max power for superior drilling & fastening
applications performance--delivers up to 57% more run time over
brushed

XR Li-Ion batteries with fuel gauge provide 33% more capacity over
standard packs

3-speed, high performance (0-2,000 RPM) all-metal transmission
optimizes tool-to-task for fast application speeds and improved run
time

YouTube videos that test cordless drills usually compare the amount of
work they can do on a single battery charge. Again, it's about efficiency.





krw <krw@nowhere.com> wrote in news:tkbkua150ed2ilkidv63kqn51r51vpn7jl@
4ax.com:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 23:34:14 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
always.look@message.header> wrote:

amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in news:msd4es$cgb$1@dont-email.me:

John Doe wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:
John Doe wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

Why don't you look at RC vehicle motors, motor controllers and
batteries. 1000's to choose from.

I've looked at lots.

Here's a 2-1/2 hp motor for $52.00
http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m607-bigfoot110-5325-295kv.html

The rpm is high, although it's low for these kind of motors.

The max no load RPM should be no more than about 400.

I've 'thought' about a couple of these type motors on a gokart.

There is the motor, the controller, the batteries, the charger...
Then there is attaching it to the bike. That requires low enough
RPM, the right size sprockets attached to the drill and to the
bike.

Designing stuff and building stuff are two completely different
things.

I made a plan (design) got a motor, a contoller, the batteries, a
charger and fabricated all the parts needed to put these on a
gokart. all was fine for about 5 years when one of my batteries
failed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MKjbXltAew I did get 4
group 27 deep cycle batteries after I had it all working.

Well done!

It's really amazing the obstacles one encounters when actually
building something. Even the simplest of ideas can be blocked.

There are many ways to get the the drive from the motor to the
wheel.

Sure, if you have access to a machine shop. Or at least a metal
lathe.

LOL, I was about to suggest, find some kid in High School and have him
do it in his shop class. Times have changed, I could have whipped up
parts in my fully equipped HS shop. 10 or 15 lathes, 5 or 6 mills, a
shaper, drill presses, foundry, tool shed. Not to mention the
woodworking shop. My son had none of this at his HS.

What limitation have you made yourself. Is your problem uncoupling
the motor from the wheel when you just want to pedal?

That's a good thought, but not my current concern.

Efficiency is everything to me. The idea is to make a reasonably
powerful bike that is easy to build from readily available
components.

I don't think you'll find the drill motors to be highly efficient
motors. The RC motors do give characteristics at the highest
efficiency.

Efficiency is a top priority in cordless drill design. That's why the
brushless versions are advertised as 57% more run time. Any cordless
device that sucks current is designed to be efficient. Cordless drills
certainly are.

I don't believe that to be true. The top priorities are power
(torque), weight, and cost. These are weighted based on target market
(pick two). Efficiency doesn't come with any of the above. Also note
that power tool motors needn't be rated for continuous operation. I
think that's going to be your biggest problem.

 

[amdx]

On 9/4/2015 1:49 PM, John Doe wrote:

amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

John Doe wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

Why don't you look at RC vehicle motors, motor controllers and
batteries. 1000's to choose from.

I've looked at lots.

Here's a 2-1/2 hp motor for $52.00
http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m607-bigfoot110-5325-295kv.html

The rpm is high, although it's low for these kind of motors.

The max no load RPM should be no more than about 400.

I've 'thought' about a couple of these type motors on a gokart.

There is the motor, the controller, the batteries, the charger...
Then there is attaching it to the bike. That requires low enough RPM,
the right size sprockets attached to the drill and to the bike.

Designing stuff and building stuff are two completely different
things.

I made a plan (design) got a motor, a contoller, the batteries, a
charger and fabricated all the parts needed to put these on a gokart.
all was fine for about 5 years when one of my batteries failed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MKjbXltAew I did get 4 group 27 deep
cycle batteries after I had it all working.

Well done!

It's really amazing the obstacles one encounters when actually
building something. Even the simplest of ideas can be blocked.

There are many ways to get the the drive from the motor to the wheel.

Sure, if you have access to a machine shop. Or at least a metal lathe.

LOL, I was about to suggest, find some kid in High School and have him
do it in his shop class. Times have changed, I could have whipped up
parts in my fully equipped HS shop. 10 or 15 lathes, 5 or 6 mills, a
shaper, drill presses, foundry, tool shed. Not to mention the
woodworking shop. My son had none of this at his HS.

What limitation have you made yourself. Is your problem uncoupling the
motor from the wheel when you just want to pedal?

That's a good thought, but not my current concern.

Efficiency is everything to me. The idea is to make a reasonably
powerful bike that is easy to build from readily available components.

I don't think you'll find the drill motors to be highly efficient
motors. The RC motors do give characteristics at the highest efficiency.

Besides the controller, batteries, and charger... An appropriate motor
would do the trick. A powerful and compact motor (with controller,
batteries, and charger) that is geared to no more than about 400 RPM
would make building an electric bike easy. Cordless drills/tools are the
closest I've come to satisfying that.

What are you turning at 400 RPM?
Ok, went through the math, I did make an error in my math, didn't check
where.
Looks like your goal is to turn a 26 in wheel at 400 RPM for a max speed
of 30.9 MPH. The motor I suggested would need a 35 to 1 ratio. Not
impossible two 6 to 1 reductions.
The idea of driving the wheel without any gear reduction doesn't set
well with me. You're putting a 13" lever on the shaft of the motor.
Hitting a bump will cause a large stress on the gears in the drill motor.

Or you can use a hub motor as someone else mentioned. Hub motor
technology will probably be ripe for me in the not-too-distant future.

Hub motors were a great idea someone's mind clicked on.
Mikek

 

[krw]

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 23:34:14 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote:

amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in news:msd4es$cgb$1@dont-email.me:

John Doe wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:
John Doe wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

Why don't you look at RC vehicle motors, motor controllers and
batteries. 1000's to choose from.

I've looked at lots.

Here's a 2-1/2 hp motor for $52.00
http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m607-bigfoot110-5325-295kv.html

The rpm is high, although it's low for these kind of motors.

The max no load RPM should be no more than about 400.

I've 'thought' about a couple of these type motors on a gokart.

There is the motor, the controller, the batteries, the charger...
Then there is attaching it to the bike. That requires low enough
RPM, the right size sprockets attached to the drill and to the
bike.

Designing stuff and building stuff are two completely different
things.

I made a plan (design) got a motor, a contoller, the batteries, a
charger and fabricated all the parts needed to put these on a
gokart. all was fine for about 5 years when one of my batteries
failed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MKjbXltAew I did get 4
group 27 deep cycle batteries after I had it all working.

Well done!

It's really amazing the obstacles one encounters when actually
building something. Even the simplest of ideas can be blocked.

There are many ways to get the the drive from the motor to the
wheel.

Sure, if you have access to a machine shop. Or at least a metal
lathe.

LOL, I was about to suggest, find some kid in High School and have him
do it in his shop class. Times have changed, I could have whipped up
parts in my fully equipped HS shop. 10 or 15 lathes, 5 or 6 mills, a
shaper, drill presses, foundry, tool shed. Not to mention the
woodworking shop. My son had none of this at his HS.

What limitation have you made yourself. Is your problem uncoupling
the motor from the wheel when you just want to pedal?

That's a good thought, but not my current concern.

Efficiency is everything to me. The idea is to make a reasonably
powerful bike that is easy to build from readily available
components.

I don't think you'll find the drill motors to be highly efficient
motors. The RC motors do give characteristics at the highest
efficiency.

Efficiency is a top priority in cordless drill design. That's why the
brushless versions are advertised as 57% more run time. Any cordless
device that sucks current is designed to be efficient. Cordless drills
certainly are.

I don't believe that to be true. The top priorities are power
(torque), weight, and cost. These are weighted based on target market
(pick two). Efficiency doesn't come with any of the above. Also note
that power tool motors needn't be rated for continuous operation. I
think that's going to be your biggest problem.

 

[amdx]

On 9/4/2015 6:34 PM, John Doe wrote:

amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in news:msd4es$cgb$1@dont-email.me:

John Doe wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:
John Doe wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

Why don't you look at RC vehicle motors, motor controllers and
batteries. 1000's to choose from.

I've looked at lots.

Here's a 2-1/2 hp motor for $52.00
http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m607-bigfoot110-5325-295kv.html

The rpm is high, although it's low for these kind of motors.

The max no load RPM should be no more than about 400.

I've 'thought' about a couple of these type motors on a gokart.

There is the motor, the controller, the batteries, the charger...
Then there is attaching it to the bike. That requires low enough
RPM, the right size sprockets attached to the drill and to the
bike.

Designing stuff and building stuff are two completely different
things.

I made a plan (design) got a motor, a contoller, the batteries, a
charger and fabricated all the parts needed to put these on a
gokart. all was fine for about 5 years when one of my batteries
failed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MKjbXltAew I did get 4
group 27 deep cycle batteries after I had it all working.

Well done!

It's really amazing the obstacles one encounters when actually
building something. Even the simplest of ideas can be blocked.

There are many ways to get the the drive from the motor to the
wheel.

Sure, if you have access to a machine shop. Or at least a metal
lathe.

LOL, I was about to suggest, find some kid in High School and have him
do it in his shop class. Times have changed, I could have whipped up
parts in my fully equipped HS shop. 10 or 15 lathes, 5 or 6 mills, a
shaper, drill presses, foundry, tool shed. Not to mention the
woodworking shop. My son had none of this at his HS.

What limitation have you made yourself. Is your problem uncoupling
the motor from the wheel when you just want to pedal?

That's a good thought, but not my current concern.

Efficiency is everything to me. The idea is to make a reasonably
powerful bike that is easy to build from readily available
components.

I don't think you'll find the drill motors to be highly efficient
motors. The RC motors do give characteristics at the highest
efficiency.

Efficiency is a top priority in cordless drill design. That's why the
brushless versions are advertised as 57% more run time. Any cordless
device that sucks current is designed to be efficient. Cordless drills
certainly are.

Using my current electric bike (under)powered by a DeWalt DCD780... I
traveled 8 1/2 miles using one 5AH battery and one 4AH battery with a
small charge left.

Besides the controller, batteries, and charger... An appropriate
motor would do the trick. A powerful and compact motor (with
controller, batteries, and charger) that is geared to no more than
about 400 RPM would make building an electric bike easy. Cordless
drills/tools are the closest I've come to satisfying that.

What are you turning at 400 RPM? Ok, went through the math, I did make
an error in my math, didn't check where. Looks like your goal is to
turn a 26 in wheel at 400 RPM for a max speed of 30.9 MPH. The motor I
suggested would need a 35 to 1 ratio. Not impossible two 6 to 1
reductions. The idea of driving the wheel without any gear reduction
doesn't set well with me. You're putting a 13" lever on the shaft of
the motor. Hitting a bump will cause a large stress on the gears in
the drill motor.

There is no way to stress a DeWalt DCF899. Also, there is little risk of
stressing the bicycle's bottom bracket, it too is a heavy duty part. So
the connection can be sloppy without risk of damage. And the connection
is simple as sticking a 12 point socket on the impact wrench to fit the
square taper bottom bracket spindle.

OK, I was still think drills.

I'm using a 20 inch wheel bike. Hopefully, the only werk will be
securing the drill in position against the left side of the bottom
bracket.

If only the impact wrench used gears instead of the controller for speed
regulation!

Interestingly IMO... Motor torque output is easy to apply to a bicycle
when driving the bottom bracket. Motor torque is measured in foot-pounds
(a pressure rating, formerly understood as werk). It's the twisting
force in pounds applied to the end of a 1 foot stick. So all you have to
do is visualize putting weight on the bicycle crank as if pedaling a
bicycle.

The torque wrenches look very powerful.

Mikek

 

[krw]

On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 01:59:09 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote:

Of course power is important. But given a specific power, battery
capacity and efficiency determine run time. And run time is everything
in powerful cordless tools that suck current.

Wrong. Weight is far more important than run time, particularly at
the upper end (though DeWalt is certainly not even near "upper end").
Again, it's a balance based on the target market. Run time isn't even
in there, though.

Go to DeWalt's website and look at their new brushless motor powered
drills. The first three listed qualities tout efficiency and run time.

Why? DeWalt is crap. Has been for years.

Product Features

DEWALT-built high power, high efficiency brushless motor--650 unit
watts out (UWO) max power for superior drilling & fastening
applications performance--delivers up to 57% more run time over
brushed

XR Li-Ion batteries with fuel gauge provide 33% more capacity over
standard packs

3-speed, high performance (0-2,000 RPM) all-metal transmission
optimizes tool-to-task for fast application speeds and improved run
time

YouTube videos that test cordless drills usually compare the amount of
work they can do on a single battery charge. Again, it's about efficiency.

It's a metric that no one cares about. There is a reason DeWalt has
been a bottom feeder for years. I bought several of their tools a few
years ago. The only one I still use is the circular saw but not
often.

krw <krw@nowhere.com> wrote in news:tkbkua150ed2ilkidv63kqn51r51vpn7jl@
4ax.com:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 23:34:14 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
always.look@message.header> wrote:

amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote in news:msd4es$cgb$1@dont-email.me:

John Doe wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:
John Doe wrote:
amdx <nojunk@knology.net> wrote:

Why don't you look at RC vehicle motors, motor controllers and
batteries. 1000's to choose from.

I've looked at lots.

Here's a 2-1/2 hp motor for $52.00
http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m607-bigfoot110-5325-295kv.html

The rpm is high, although it's low for these kind of motors.

The max no load RPM should be no more than about 400.

I've 'thought' about a couple of these type motors on a gokart.

There is the motor, the controller, the batteries, the charger...
Then there is attaching it to the bike. That requires low enough
RPM, the right size sprockets attached to the drill and to the
bike.

Designing stuff and building stuff are two completely different
things.

I made a plan (design) got a motor, a contoller, the batteries, a
charger and fabricated all the parts needed to put these on a
gokart. all was fine for about 5 years when one of my batteries
failed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MKjbXltAew I did get 4
group 27 deep cycle batteries after I had it all working.

Well done!

It's really amazing the obstacles one encounters when actually
building something. Even the simplest of ideas can be blocked.

There are many ways to get the the drive from the motor to the
wheel.

Sure, if you have access to a machine shop. Or at least a metal
lathe.

LOL, I was about to suggest, find some kid in High School and have him
do it in his shop class. Times have changed, I could have whipped up
parts in my fully equipped HS shop. 10 or 15 lathes, 5 or 6 mills, a
shaper, drill presses, foundry, tool shed. Not to mention the
woodworking shop. My son had none of this at his HS.

What limitation have you made yourself. Is your problem uncoupling
the motor from the wheel when you just want to pedal?

That's a good thought, but not my current concern.

Efficiency is everything to me. The idea is to make a reasonably
powerful bike that is easy to build from readily available
components.

I don't think you'll find the drill motors to be highly efficient
motors. The RC motors do give characteristics at the highest
efficiency.

Efficiency is a top priority in cordless drill design. That's why the
brushless versions are advertised as 57% more run time. Any cordless
device that sucks current is designed to be efficient. Cordless drills
certainly are.

I don't believe that to be true. The top priorities are power
(torque), weight, and cost. These are weighted based on target market
(pick two). Efficiency doesn't come with any of the above. Also note
that power tool motors needn't be rated for continuous operation. I
think that's going to be your biggest problem.

 

[John Doe]

I wrote:

> There is no way to stress a DeWalt DCF899.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmFiFgAtUpM