D
david eather
Guest
suggestions please
TIA
TIA
B
boB
Guest
On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:06:13 +1000, david eather
<eathDELETEer@tpg.com.au> wrote:
Lots of old books scanned online.
Search for vacuum tube design or similar into Google etc...
www.archive.org will have many books I believe.
<eathDELETEer@tpg.com.au> wrote:
Lots of old books scanned online.
Search for vacuum tube design or similar into Google etc...
www.archive.org will have many books I believe.
T
Tim Williams
Guest
Hard to go wrong with good old RDH4,
http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/RDH4.pdf
May be a little on the heavy side if you\'re more generally beginner, than an
active designer and just unfamiliar with tubes in particular.
Also plenty of articles and web pages by varying degrees of experts, fans
and nuts. Tubecad comes to mind as one of the generally informative ones.
Downside is, the audioph{ile|ool} community won\'t give the most practical or
representative picture of things, so keep that in mind.
Tim
--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/
\"david eather\" <eathDELETEer@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9zZXG.1050750$%j6.317120@fx03.am4...
http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/RDH4.pdf
May be a little on the heavy side if you\'re more generally beginner, than an
active designer and just unfamiliar with tubes in particular.
Also plenty of articles and web pages by varying degrees of experts, fans
and nuts. Tubecad comes to mind as one of the generally informative ones.
Downside is, the audioph{ile|ool} community won\'t give the most practical or
representative picture of things, so keep that in mind.
Tim
--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/
\"david eather\" <eathDELETEer@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:9zZXG.1050750$%j6.317120@fx03.am4...
B
bitrex
Guest
On 8/9/2020 6:21 PM, Tim Williams wrote:
An RDH4 alternative from the time period that\'s a bit more compact but
covers the important topics:
<https://www.amazon.com/Electron-tube-Circuits-Samuel-Seely/dp/B00005VRTP>
An RDH4 alternative from the time period that\'s a bit more compact but
covers the important topics:
<https://www.amazon.com/Electron-tube-Circuits-Samuel-Seely/dp/B00005VRTP>
P
Phil Allison
Guest
david eather wrote:
================
** Your Q is way too broad - the topic of tubes is ENORMOUS while current production involves only a few popular audio types.
FFS tell us what you ACTUALLY wish to know about.
...... Phil
================
** Your Q is way too broad - the topic of tubes is ENORMOUS while current production involves only a few popular audio types.
FFS tell us what you ACTUALLY wish to know about.
...... Phil
P
Pimpom
Guest
On 8/10/2020 3:51 AM, Tim Williams wrote:
I totally agree with Tim\'s recommendation including the caveats.
RDH4, in case you haven\'t already found out, stands for Radiotron
Designer\'s Handbook 4th Edison. It was my bible in the early
days. I still have the original print as well as the pdf.
I totally agree with Tim\'s recommendation including the caveats.
RDH4, in case you haven\'t already found out, stands for Radiotron
Designer\'s Handbook 4th Edison. It was my bible in the early
days. I still have the original print as well as the pdf.
T
Tabby
Guest
On Sunday, 9 August 2020 22:06:16 UTC+1, david eather wrote:
There are loads & loads to choose from. Most of them contain all the basic info. I see no point limiting yourself to one or 2 possibles, see what you can find.
NT
There are loads & loads to choose from. Most of them contain all the basic info. I see no point limiting yourself to one or 2 possibles, see what you can find.
NT
L
legg
Guest
On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 07:06:13 +1000, david eather
<eathDELETEer@tpg.com.au> wrote:
I thought this one useful enough to republish in
electronic format.
http://www.magma.ca/~legg/CCDM/CCDMp000iii.html
A search for \'Conductance Curve Design Manual\' should
get a pdf version.
RL
<eathDELETEer@tpg.com.au> wrote:
I thought this one useful enough to republish in
electronic format.
http://www.magma.ca/~legg/CCDM/CCDMp000iii.html
A search for \'Conductance Curve Design Manual\' should
get a pdf version.
RL
S
Silvar Beitel
Guest
On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 5:06:16 PM UTC-4, david eather wrote:
Dunno exactly what you\'re looking for, but the suggestions you\'ve gotten so far are for books about designing *with* valves/tubes. Another dimension is the design *of* valves/tubes. If that\'s what interests you, look up \"1940 RCA Vacuum Tube Design.\" (There are also later editions.) You can find free PDFs on the web. I find the subject fascinating (and who knows, it may be relevant again in a post-apocalyptic world
)
--
Silvar Beitel
Dunno exactly what you\'re looking for, but the suggestions you\'ve gotten so far are for books about designing *with* valves/tubes. Another dimension is the design *of* valves/tubes. If that\'s what interests you, look up \"1940 RCA Vacuum Tube Design.\" (There are also later editions.) You can find free PDFs on the web. I find the subject fascinating (and who knows, it may be relevant again in a post-apocalyptic world
)--
Silvar Beitel
P
Pimpom
Guest
On 8/11/2020 12:00 AM, Silvar Beitel wrote:
Or a post-pandemic world...On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 5:06:16 PM UTC-4, david eather wrote:
suggestions please
TIA
Dunno exactly what you\'re looking for, but the suggestions you\'ve gotten so far are for books about designing *with* valves/tubes. Another dimension is the design *of* valves/tubes. If that\'s what interests you, look up \"1940 RCA Vacuum Tube Design.\" (There are also later editions.) You can find free PDFs on the web. I find the subject fascinating (and who knows, it may be relevant again in a post-apocalyptic world
G
gray_wolf
Guest
On 10/08/2020 1:30 pm, Silvar Beitel wrote:
Good question! I\'m wondering what the OP would do if he knew all about tubes?
Build a HiFi amp? Guitar amp?
On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 5:06:16 PM UTC-4, david eather wrote:
suggestions please
TIA
Dunno exactly what you\'re looking for, but the suggestions you\'ve gotten so far are for books about designing *with* valves/tubes. Another dimension is the design *of* valves/tubes. If that\'s what interests you, look up \"1940 RCA Vacuum Tube Design.\" (There are also later editions.) You can find free PDFs on the web. I find the subject fascinating (and who knows, it may be relevant again in a post-apocalyptic world
Good question! I\'m wondering what the OP would do if he knew all about tubes?
Build a HiFi amp? Guitar amp?
P
Phil Hobbs
Guest
On 2020-08-10 15:46, gray_wolf wrote:
EMP-proof serial computer, definitely.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
On 10/08/2020 1:30 pm, Silvar Beitel wrote:
On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 5:06:16 PM UTC-4, david eather wrote:
suggestions please
TIA
Dunno exactly what you\'re looking for, but the suggestions you\'ve
gotten so far are for books about designing *with* valves/tubes.
Another dimension is the design *of* valves/tubes. If that\'s what
interests you, look up \"1940 RCA Vacuum Tube Design.\" (There are also
later editions.) You can find free PDFs on the web. I find the
subject fascinating (and who knows, it may be relevant again in a
post-apocalyptic world
Good question! I\'m wondering what the OP would do if he knew all about
tubes?
Build a HiFi amp? Guitar amp?
EMP-proof serial computer, definitely.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
G
Grant Taylor
Guest
On 8/10/20 4:47 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> EMP-proof serial computer, definitely.
Why does it have to be serial? Why can\'t it be parallel?
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
> EMP-proof serial computer, definitely.
Why does it have to be serial? Why can\'t it be parallel?
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
P
Pimpom
Guest
On 8/11/2020 1:16 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
to do. In the absence of such clarification, I\'d guess that most
people who ask the question want to gain enough knowledge about
tubes to be able to a) design tube circuits OR b) repair a tube
amp OR c) simply understand what the fuss is all about without a
specific goal in mind.
Good question, yes. So far the OP hasn\'t made clear what he wantsOn 10/08/2020 1:30 pm, Silvar Beitel wrote:
On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 5:06:16 PM UTC-4, david eather wrote:
suggestions please
TIA
Dunno exactly what you\'re looking for, but the suggestions you\'ve gotten so far are for books about designing *with* valves/tubes. Another dimension is the design *of* valves/tubes. If that\'s what interests you, look up \"1940 RCA Vacuum Tube Design.\" (There are also later editions.) You can find free PDFs on the web. I find the subject fascinating (and who knows, it may be relevant again in a post-apocalyptic world
Good question! I\'m wondering what the OP would do if he knew all about tubes?
Build a HiFi amp? Guitar amp?
to do. In the absence of such clarification, I\'d guess that most
people who ask the question want to gain enough knowledge about
tubes to be able to a) design tube circuits OR b) repair a tube
amp OR c) simply understand what the fuss is all about without a
specific goal in mind.
P
Phil Hobbs
Guest
On 2020-08-11 00:40, Grant Taylor wrote:
Takes too many tubes. See the IBM 650.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
On 8/10/20 4:47 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
EMP-proof serial computer, definitely.
Why does it have to be serial? Why can\'t it be parallel?
Takes too many tubes. See the IBM 650.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
S
server
Guest
On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 18:47:09 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
The arithmetic and logical functions are relative easy, but the
control functionality (instruction decoding and micro sequencing) is
the problem. You need kind of ROM (e.g. a semiconductor diode matrix
or core memory). You also need some scratch pad memory, such as core
or acoustic (mercury) delay lines.
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 2020-08-10 15:46, gray_wolf wrote:
On 10/08/2020 1:30 pm, Silvar Beitel wrote:
On Sunday, August 9, 2020 at 5:06:16 PM UTC-4, david eather wrote:
suggestions please
TIA
Dunno exactly what you\'re looking for, but the suggestions you\'ve
gotten so far are for books about designing *with* valves/tubes.
Another dimension is the design *of* valves/tubes. If that\'s what
interests you, look up \"1940 RCA Vacuum Tube Design.\" (There are also
later editions.) You can find free PDFs on the web. I find the
subject fascinating (and who knows, it may be relevant again in a
post-apocalyptic world
Good question! I\'m wondering what the OP would do if he knew all about
tubes?
Build a HiFi amp? Guitar amp?
EMP-proof serial computer, definitely.
The arithmetic and logical functions are relative easy, but the
control functionality (instruction decoding and micro sequencing) is
the problem. You need kind of ROM (e.g. a semiconductor diode matrix
or core memory). You also need some scratch pad memory, such as core
or acoustic (mercury) delay lines.
S
server
Guest
On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 22:40:45 -0600, Grant Taylor
<gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
The ENIAC calculator was parallel and had 18000 tubes, early
commercial computers were serial (or BCD) with just a few thousand
tubes and they even executed a stored program.
<gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
On 8/10/20 4:47 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
EMP-proof serial computer, definitely.
Why does it have to be serial? Why can\'t it be parallel?
The ENIAC calculator was parallel and had 18000 tubes, early
commercial computers were serial (or BCD) with just a few thousand
tubes and they even executed a stored program.
T
Tim Williams
Guest
\"Phil Hobbs\" <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in message
news:rgsipb$17mk$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> EMP-proof serial computer, definitely.
Y\'know, I wonder what kind of performance one of those could do, given
modern architectural and electronic knowledge.
A clock frequency somewhat under a MHz seems reasonable, there\'d be some
tradeoff between tube count and computational power, and with say 16 bit
instruction cycles and standard integer ops (logic, arithmetic, and since
it\'s serial, mul and div are pretty cheap) it should be competetive with,
say, the Apollo Guidance Computer (~50kIPS) or some very impoverished MCUs
(maybe not any 8-bit machines, but those 4-bitters that are still around in
some niches).
The memory of course is always going to be the hard part. If you\'re
reluctant to patch in a modern SRAM, you\'re going to have a hard time doing
much of anything else. (Not bad if you find an old core module in working
condition, I guess.)
But then, you still need all the support hardware to make use of it. Even
just a serial terminal, you either need to get lucky with a surviving
vintage one (where \"vintage\" in this scenario includes any current tech
that\'s surviving?), or make one yourself, which means you\'re going to need a
CRT and support components, rasterizer, character generator, video RAM...
All things which existed in various forms back in the day (delay line might
be okay for the RAM; and there were CRT-ROMs for drawing characters!), but
which weren\'t exactly corner-store items even back then.
Probably the more realistic scenario is developing a hack-friendly Android
OS to use on all those phones that are suddenly less useful without active
base stations, and even if a bunch end up dead for various reasons, there\'s
just so many that will survive. Much easier then to keep the battery
charged, which, automotive and mains chargers are at least as likely to
survive and remain as reliable as they were (which is to say, not always
that much heh, but still), and mains inverters and generators, and car
batteries and alternators, aren\'t going away ever so that should be a good
enough stopping point. (Engines in turn can be fed by gassified wood, for
example.)
Tim
--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/
news:rgsipb$17mk$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> EMP-proof serial computer, definitely.
Y\'know, I wonder what kind of performance one of those could do, given
modern architectural and electronic knowledge.
A clock frequency somewhat under a MHz seems reasonable, there\'d be some
tradeoff between tube count and computational power, and with say 16 bit
instruction cycles and standard integer ops (logic, arithmetic, and since
it\'s serial, mul and div are pretty cheap) it should be competetive with,
say, the Apollo Guidance Computer (~50kIPS) or some very impoverished MCUs
(maybe not any 8-bit machines, but those 4-bitters that are still around in
some niches).
The memory of course is always going to be the hard part. If you\'re
reluctant to patch in a modern SRAM, you\'re going to have a hard time doing
much of anything else. (Not bad if you find an old core module in working
condition, I guess.)
But then, you still need all the support hardware to make use of it. Even
just a serial terminal, you either need to get lucky with a surviving
vintage one (where \"vintage\" in this scenario includes any current tech
that\'s surviving?), or make one yourself, which means you\'re going to need a
CRT and support components, rasterizer, character generator, video RAM...
All things which existed in various forms back in the day (delay line might
be okay for the RAM; and there were CRT-ROMs for drawing characters!), but
which weren\'t exactly corner-store items even back then.
Probably the more realistic scenario is developing a hack-friendly Android
OS to use on all those phones that are suddenly less useful without active
base stations, and even if a bunch end up dead for various reasons, there\'s
just so many that will survive. Much easier then to keep the battery
charged, which, automotive and mains chargers are at least as likely to
survive and remain as reliable as they were (which is to say, not always
that much heh, but still), and mains inverters and generators, and car
batteries and alternators, aren\'t going away ever so that should be a good
enough stopping point. (Engines in turn can be fed by gassified wood, for
example.)
Tim
--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/
S
server
Guest
On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 06:39:21 -0500, \"Tim Williams\"
<tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote:
One thing limiting the speed was the high tube stray capacitances and
high impedance levels. Finding tubes with good cathode emissivity
might help to design logical circuits with low (say 20-30 V) anode
voltages.
Ordinary tubes can have reassemble power gain in grounded grid
configuration even at VHF. A grounded grid flip-flop ??
A bit clock above 10 MHz should be possible, so a word add times of a
few us should be possible.
You still might find some magnetic core modules.
Of course some shift registers, such as mercury delay lines or 64 us
PAL TV delay lines might be used.
A Teletype terminal al should do. One Teletype we used had only
semiconductor mains rectifiers and a TO3 power transistor in the 20 mA
constant current generator. The data generation and decoding was all
electromechanical.
<tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote:
\"Phil Hobbs\" <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in message
news:rgsipb$17mk$1@gioia.aioe.org...
EMP-proof serial computer, definitely.
Y\'know, I wonder what kind of performance one of those could do, given
modern architectural and electronic knowledge.
One thing limiting the speed was the high tube stray capacitances and
high impedance levels. Finding tubes with good cathode emissivity
might help to design logical circuits with low (say 20-30 V) anode
voltages.
Ordinary tubes can have reassemble power gain in grounded grid
configuration even at VHF. A grounded grid flip-flop ??
A bit clock above 10 MHz should be possible, so a word add times of a
few us should be possible.
You still might find some magnetic core modules.
Of course some shift registers, such as mercury delay lines or 64 us
PAL TV delay lines might be used.
A Teletype terminal al should do. One Teletype we used had only
semiconductor mains rectifiers and a TO3 power transistor in the 20 mA
constant current generator. The data generation and decoding was all
electromechanical.
S
server
Guest
EMP-proof serial computer, definitely.
Y\'know, I wonder what kind of performance one of those could do, given
modern architectural and electronic knowledge.
With Nuvistors and surface-mount passives, you could probably get the clock rate into 100 MHz territory.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs