Is repairing TVs And VCRs still justified?

[daveem Dave M]

I own a small repair shop, and while repairing TVs is what helps pay my
bills, some of my customers often ask me if I think their stuff is worth
fixing, and I often have to tell them no, but I thought it would be nice
to get some second opinions on this. Lets say a eight year old TV comes
in your shop with a vertical problem, so you replace a couple of caps
and an IC, charge them 80 bucks, and send them on their way.
Now considering they just paid you about half of what it would cost them
for a new set, inspite of the fact that you repaired the present
problem, they still have an eight year old TV with lots of other
potential problems. and even while you may replace some extra caps you
know will likely fail, there is still a question I often ponder, what
about all of those other parts?

When the new VCRs came out, most of us felt justified in telling our
customers that they were better off to repair their old units, because
they were better made, but I am not sure if this also holds true for the
newer televisions.

Obviously some of what we repair is well justified, but not all of it.
Just my thoughts, Dave

 

[Bob Stevens]

Prices and quality of home electronics must go up. The landfills are going
to overflow.
People have no problems paying to repair a Sony Wega .........


"daveem Dave M" <daveem@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3800-3FABF326-53@storefull-2137.public.lawson.webtv.net...

I own a small repair shop, and while repairing TVs is what helps pay my
bills, some of my customers often ask me if I think their stuff is worth
fixing, and I often have to tell them no, but I thought it would be nice
to get some second opinions on this. Lets say a eight year old TV comes
in your shop with a vertical problem, so you replace a couple of caps
and an IC, charge them 80 bucks, and send them on their way.
Now considering they just paid you about half of what it would cost them
for a new set, inspite of the fact that you repaired the present
problem, they still have an eight year old TV with lots of other
potential problems. and even while you may replace some extra caps you
know will likely fail, there is still a question I often ponder, what
about all of those other parts?

When the new VCRs came out, most of us felt justified in telling our
customers that they were better off to repair their old units, because
they were better made, but I am not sure if this also holds true for the
newer televisions.

Obviously some of what we repair is well justified, but not all of it.
Just my thoughts, Dave

 

[Sofie]

"daveem Dave M" <daveem@webtv.net> wrote in message

Obviously some of what we repair is well justified, but not all of it.
Just my thoughts, Dave
------------------

Dave M:
To a certain extent, over the years this has always been true in any repair
field. With the cheaper, throw away electronics that the masses demand with
their purchasing decisions all of us are definitely seeing more and more
customers choosing to not fix their stuff but there are still plenty of
repairs to be done.... we just have to pick and chose more carefully and
expand or change what we service....... there are still plenty of service
dollars for big-screen, RPTV, high end stereo/audio, camcorders, security
video, turn-key home theater systems, etc, etc.
My cup is half full, not half empty.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

[BOB URZ]

daveem Dave M wrote:

I own a small repair shop, and while repairing TVs is what helps pay my
bills, some of my customers often ask me if I think their stuff is worth
fixing, and I often have to tell them no, but I thought it would be nice
to get some second opinions on this. Lets say a eight year old TV comes
in your shop with a vertical problem, so you replace a couple of caps
and an IC, charge them 80 bucks, and send them on their way.
Now considering they just paid you about half of what it would cost them
for a new set, inspite of the fact that you repaired the present
problem, they still have an eight year old TV with lots of other
potential problems. and even while you may replace some extra caps you
know will likely fail, there is still a question I often ponder, what
about all of those other parts?

When the new VCRs came out, most of us felt justified in telling our
customers that they were better off to repair their old units, because
they were better made, but I am not sure if this also holds true for the
newer televisions.

Obviously some of what we repair is well justified, but not all of it.
Just my thoughts, Dave

$80 is a cheap repair for what you probably did. You must be a small shop. A
larger warranty station shop that would probably be a
$150 dollar job.

I always give my customers my honest opinion, but i don't twist there
leg to help them make a decision. Some things i think are worth fixing
are declined, some things i think are NOT worth fixing get fixed.

I just make sure to get deposit money up front for parts on older
units. That way at least your parts cost are covered if the customer bails
on you. And estimates are NOT free. If it gets screws taken out,
money changes hands. I will give my best verbal guess for no charge.
Once the screws come up, the clock starts ticking.

Yea the repair business has changed. More shops are closing.
unless you specialize in some other areas, good luck in the future.

BOB



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[Jerry Greenberg]

It used to be said that if the service cost is more than about 20% of
the replacement value of the unit, and it is at 50% of its rated MTBF
for usage, it is not worth to repair.

To make it simple, if a TV is more than 5 years old, and its
replacement cost is about $500, you should not spend more than about
$100 to service it. In the end you still have an old set, and there
are many other used parts, that can soon fail.

There is also the aspect of the changing and performance improving
technology. The newer set will usually have refinements in the design.
With the coming of digital and HDTV, there will be the the conserns
about compatiblity for options and usability that will come in to
play.

The cost of VCR's and DVD players has dropped so much, that the
manufactures don't even see it worth to have distribution for many of
the spare parts. The labour alone for an average repair where
troubleshooting is involved, would come too close to the replacement
cost of the unit. And, especialy so when considering that they are
sold with 3 and 5 year exchange warranties.

When doing service on a simple VCR or TV set, if a service manual is
required, the cost of the manual can come out to about 1/4 of the
replacment cost of the unit. Then on top of this there are the parts,
and labour involved to do the service job.

Maybe it would be best to look at becoming a sales rep to sell a new
unit when someone brings one in for service that will take more than
15 minutes and use service parts?


Jerry Greenberg
http://www.zoom-one.com

--



daveem@webtv.net (daveem Dave M) wrote in message news:<3800-3FABF326-53@storefull-2137.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

I own a small repair shop, and while repairing TVs is what helps pay my
bills, some of my customers often ask me if I think their stuff is worth
fixing, and I often have to tell them no, but I thought it would be nice
to get some second opinions on this. Lets say a eight year old TV comes
in your shop with a vertical problem, so you replace a couple of caps
and an IC, charge them 80 bucks, and send them on their way.
Now considering they just paid you about half of what it would cost them
for a new set, inspite of the fact that you repaired the present
problem, they still have an eight year old TV with lots of other
potential problems. and even while you may replace some extra caps you
know will likely fail, there is still a question I often ponder, what
about all of those other parts?

When the new VCRs came out, most of us felt justified in telling our
customers that they were better off to repair their old units, because
they were better made, but I am not sure if this also holds true for the
newer televisions.

Obviously some of what we repair is well justified, but not all of it.
Just my thoughts, Dave

 

[John Del]

Subject: Is repairing TVs And VCRs still justified?
From: daveem@webtv.net (daveem Dave M)
Date: 11/7/03 2:31 PM Eastern Standard

Now considering they just paid you about half of what it would cost them
for a new set, inspite of the fact that you repaired the present
problem, they still have an eight year old TV with lots of other
potential problems.

If eighty bucks is half way to a new TV, they're pricing out low end junk. An
8 year old TV properly repaired (with FACTORY supplied parts) and carefully
screened for a good CRT and known issues corrected, will be a more reliable TV
than a low end Chinese rebadged TV. In many cases, they're better than even a
"quality" new model.
John Del
Wolcott, CT

"Nothing is so opportune for tyrants as a people tired of its liberty."
Alan Keyes

(remove S for email reply)

 

[JURB6006]

Many have expressed intelligent opinions here and I guess it's my turn to take
a shot at it.

I worked for one guy, had about 3000 sq ft at least and also sold Zeniths and
whitewares (Maytag & Amana). He knew the quality of the TVs was down and the
whitewares helped.I remember one day he was on the phone with Zenith and he was
declining a "special deal" on some low end sets. Ha said he could buy them
cheaper retail. He had his loyal customer base and was also factory service for
Zenith, but only certain things. He turned bigscreen work down ! While we did
do a few, this guy had a 42" back door, not counting the garage door that was
blocked off. He had a truck well suited, and was strong enough. He didn't
really want to do them. His loss.

He probably would be poking along in business to this day, but he kicked the
bucket some years ago. Where I'm at now, the boss has a healthy, normal and not
excessive sense of greed. Through experience he has learned which sets are a
problem child and which ones can be trusted.

We recently gave a customer a yoke. The set was in for a red CRT, and all was
going well until we found out the yoke was NLA. We found a used one and didn't
charge the customer a dime. Same goes when we get the RCAs dead and find out
they've needed the cap and/or PIN ckt components. We almost never call for more
money. They seem to be willing to go to the point where they are losing the
amount of money they would've made on the job. They also give free estimates. I
was totally against this and about 15 years ago I tried my best to talk them
out of it, they would not budge.

These people are so different from anyone else I've met in the busines, and
they must be right because if not there would not be Corvette(s), boat(s) etc.
Their rates are no higher than anyone else's, but due to the streamlined
estimate process quite a bit of work gets done for the man-hours spent. This is
our edge. They make it work like I have never seen.

One time we had a dead Mits RPTV in without the B1 kit. Even though the problem
was in the SMPS, it had pretty bad screen burns. Same unit had been in for an
NLA part and was scapped. WE <u>gave</u> them the entire lightbox, installed
for nothing and the B1 kit, just pay what's on the bill. These policies have
given us superiority in the customer relations dept., and we are not cheap. We
never were cheap and we don't want to be cheap, but we get the job DONE. Even
if other shops don't, and thank the Creator that they are not all hacks. We are
better at figuring things out without a print and procuring parts. Again, this
is our edge. This is what makes us win in a losing game.

This will not last forever.

We diversified into computers, and with the same philosophy that we never were
cheap, aren't cheap and don't want to be cheap, we make a little bit of money.
Not big right now, but the way I see it, the PC and TV/audio gear will be
completely melded in a few years. We want to be there.

I also have my side gig, home remodeling and improvement. I really like
carpentry, especially something out of the ordinary, so along with that we
could be installing high end home theatres in a few years and servicing nearly
all the components of that system. I'm talking about the ones people build an
addition to their house to put in, not some guy with speaker wires hanging out
the back of his NAP PTV340.

The future is there for those who can see it, go big. Small will kill you. It's
getting damnear to the point where they'll be selling the cheap stuff by the
pound, essentials are mined by almost slave labor, processed by almost slave
labor and assembled into the product by almost slave labor. If you target
anything, target the most expensive things you can handle. Streamline the
process, and if recalls happen, handle them with the utmost care, and eat the
incidentals. It works.

JURB

 

[Leonard Caillouet]

"Sofie" &lt;sofie@olypen.com&gt; wrote in message
news:vqnvqjr34p9c4@corp.supernews.com...

My cup is half full, not half empty.

I like your attitude Dan.

Mine has been overfull as other servicers go out of business. The bigger
problem for all the shops that I know is not the lack of business, but the
lack of good techs. Nearly every shop manager that I talk to would love to
find a good tech.

Leonard Caillouet

 

[Roy J. Tellason]

daveem Dave M wrote:

I own a small repair shop, and while repairing TVs is what helps pay my
bills, some of my customers often ask me if I think their stuff is worth
fixing, and I often have to tell them no, but I thought it would be nice
to get some second opinions on this. Lets say a eight year old TV comes
in your shop with a vertical problem, so you replace a couple of caps
and an IC, charge them 80 bucks, and send them on their way.
Now considering they just paid you about half of what it would cost them
for a new set, inspite of the fact that you repaired the present
problem, they still have an eight year old TV with lots of other
potential problems. and even while you may replace some extra caps you
know will likely fail, there is still a question I often ponder, what
about all of those other parts?

Doesn't it sometimes seem like this stuff is built to fail? After it reaches
a certain age, anyhow...

When the new VCRs came out, most of us felt justified in telling our
customers that they were better off to repair their old units, because
they were better made, but I am not sure if this also holds true for the
newer televisions.

If it's something I was going into and could just go in there and fix, I felt
justified in doing so. If it was one of those deals where I started to pile
up absurd amounts of time that I wasn't ever going to recover, then it's
another story...

Obviously some of what we repair is well justified, but not all of it.
Just my thoughts, Dave

I never offered that opinion to customers, excepting the above, because I'd
also be offering a presumed familiarity with the market for new stuff (and
who had time to do that sort of casual shopping?) and also assuming that I'd
have some familiarity with the new stuff -- nobody but warranty service
centers sees much of that. And if it doesn't break you don't see it, so how
can you judge its reliability? Or Quality? Or any number of other aspects
of it?

 

[Roy J. Tellason]

Leonard Caillouet wrote:

"Sofie" &lt;sofie@olypen.com&gt; wrote in message
news:vqnvqjr34p9c4@corp.supernews.com...

My cup is half full, not half empty.

I like your attitude Dan.

Agreed.

Mine has been overfull as other servicers go out of business. The bigger
problem for all the shops that I know is not the lack of business, but the
lack of good techs. Nearly every shop manager that I talk to would love to
find a good tech.

Leonard Caillouet

I'd like to know who's even doing much in the way of this sort of work around
here these days. All of the shops that I used to know are *gone*. Including
places that did all sorts of warranty service, etc. Almost all of them,
anyhow...

The issue with me isn't that I want to get back into working on this stuff, I
have enough to do to keep my computers running and upgraded. It's more a
matter for me at this point finding somebody I can deal with. And who knows,
maybe I could get back into working on some stuff...

 

[Roy J. Tellason]

BOB URZ wrote:

I just make sure to get deposit money up front for parts on older
units. That way at least your parts cost are covered if the customer bails
on you. And estimates are NOT free. If it gets screws taken out,
money changes hands. I will give my best verbal guess for no charge.
Once the screws come up, the clock starts ticking.

You have to, in order to survive in the business any more. I ended up with
more junk, things that weren't worth fixing and that I was never going to
see out of it what I had in it in terms of time...

Yea the repair business has changed. More shops are closing.
unless you specialize in some other areas, good luck in the future.

Specialize in what? Yes, specialization makes it easier in terms of
specialized tools, test equipment, parts, and established relationships
with various companies, particularly the makers of this stuff, but those
guys aren't on our side either.

I was pretty specialized, on a couple of occasions. During two different and
distinct time periods I did more organs, in homes and churches, and musical
instrument stuff, than anything else. And I *still* couldn't continue to
make a good living at it. Did that from 1975-77 in the NYC area, and again
from 1980-85 in south central PA, working out of my house, then from
1985-1992 with a regular shop, taking on computers as well (mostly c64s,
though lots of other stuff as well). And the prices of stuff kept coming
down, the costs of business kept going up, and things finally got to the
point where I closed it up.

 

[nemo]

From the point of view of the customer, I normally don't bother
getting anything repaired if it's over 5 years old. I'll may have a
quick go at repairing it myself (used to be a Electronic Design
Engineer in the distant past), but if it can't be repaired quickly I
don't bother.

However, I am also concerned about the landfill sites, especially as I
live in one of the worst counties for landfill sites in the UK. So, I
past all my old tv and video's on to Derek my TV and Video Repair man
so that he can recycle or use them for spares. I don't expect any
money for the old stuff that I give Derek, but he does give me a
discount for any repairs that he does for me. It also means that there
are affordable TV's for people who are short of money. I do some odd
jobs for an old lady, Derek sold her a TV about 6 months ago for Ł25,
which was the onl;y way that she could afford a TV.

Generally, I find things to be very reliable these days, but things
seem to go in cycles, probably cause they were brought at the same
time. This week my microwave gave up the ghost and stopped heating,
it's has been retired as it was 19 years old and had a hard life. My
food mixer also disappeared literally in a cloud of smoke, still works
just need to change the mains suppression cap.

Regards

nemo

On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 11:31:50 -0800 (PST), daveem@webtv.net (daveem Dave
M) wrote:

I own a small repair shop, and while repairing TVs is what helps pay my
bills, some of my customers often ask me if I think their stuff is worth
fixing, and I often have to tell them no, but I thought it would be nice
to get some second opinions on this. Lets say a eight year old TV comes
in your shop with a vertical problem, so you replace a couple of caps
and an IC, charge them 80 bucks, and send them on their way.
Now considering they just paid you about half of what it would cost them
for a new set, inspite of the fact that you repaired the present
problem, they still have an eight year old TV with lots of other
potential problems. and even while you may replace some extra caps you
know will likely fail, there is still a question I often ponder, what
about all of those other parts?

When the new VCRs came out, most of us felt justified in telling our
customers that they were better off to repair their old units, because
they were better made, but I am not sure if this also holds true for the
newer televisions.

Obviously some of what we repair is well justified, but not all of it.
Just my thoughts, Dave