Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

[mm]

Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.


I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of
them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.

I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even
those units that might have them.

Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the
first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on)


I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can
repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly.


Items for sale, if interested:
I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order:
http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Type-2-Protection-Device/dp/B003NVLWN2/ref=pd_luc_sbs_00_01_t_lh
http://www.amazon.com/INTERMATIC-IG3240RC3-PANEL-SURGE-ARRESTOR/dp/B003A3MUJI/ref=pd_luc_sbs_00_02_t_lh
http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Leviton-51120-1-Whole-House-Surge-Suppressor-Surge-Protector/p.aspx


and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)
http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1175CP-ARRESTER-LIGHTNG/dp/B002GUZ1NI

 

[bud--]

mm wrote:

Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

It is an engineered device with internal protection matched to the MOVs.
I would never repair one.

I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of
them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.

Surge hits to a MOV deteriorate it. With high ratings a suppressor will
last a very long time. The worst case surge on a service power line to
your house that has any reasonable chance of occurring is 10,000A.
Suppressors with much higher ratings are readily available.

For a house, the IEEE recommends ratings of 20,000 to 70,000A _per
wire_. For high lightning areas the recommendation is 40,000 to 120,000A
_per wire_.

I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even
those units that might have them.

Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the
first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on)


I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can
repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly.

Make sure your fire insurance covers the suppressor you engineered.

Items for sale, if interested:
I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order:
http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Type-2-Protection-Device/dp/B003NVLWN2/ref=pd_luc_sbs_00_01_t_lh

This has minimal information and no ratings. Didn't look at the two below.

http://www.amazon.com/INTERMATIC-IG3240RC3-PANEL-SURGE-ARRESTOR/dp/B003A3MUJI/ref=pd_luc_sbs_00_02_t_lh
http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Leviton-51120-1-Whole-House-Surge-Suppressor-Surge-Protector/p.aspx


and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)
http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1175CP-ARRESTER-LIGHTNG/dp/B002GUZ1NI

Also has minimal information and no ratings. If it only protects one
wire don't get it - get one made for a service protecting both wires. I
do like SquareD as a brand.

--
bud--

 

[bud--]

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:

mm wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

Stop buying junk. MOV surge protectors are really worthless junk. Here in
230v land, when they go, they often do so with a bang and sometimes catch
fire.

The IEEE (largest association of electrical and electronic engineers in
the US) says that ">90% of both hard-wired and plug-in protectors use
MOVs to perform the voltage-limiting function. In most AC protectors,
they are the only significant voltage limiters.".

MOVs work fine.

In the US, since 1998, UL has required suppressors have a thermal
disconnect to disconnect failing MOVS. I have seen no reason to believe
fires are a problem on UL listed suppressors made since 1998. Would
think that "230v land" would have similar requirements.

Look at TransTector ones. They use silicon avalance diodes which when compared
to MOVs are indestructable. They are more expensive but in the long run cheaper
as they don't fail like MOV ones.

If you get high ratings, MOV based suppressors are not likely to fail.
It is one reason why some suppressors can have warranties on connected
equipment.

You can, of course, buy what you want.

You might also want to learn about how lightening works and how to avoid it.

Contrary to what people believe (yes Franklin got it wrong) lightening flows
from the GROUND UP. Once a path is opened from the ground, the polarity
reverses and the usual flash you see flows downward.

Polarity reverses?

The usual process is for charge do descend in steps - a stepped leader.
When the charge gets close enough to the earth the final link is a
stroke from the earth to end of the stepped leader.

If you place grounded sharp pointed objects on top of buildings, you will
CREATE lightening.

There is not a lot of research on what end on a lightning rod (now
called air terminals) is most effective. The best information I have
seen is that a 5/8" diameter rounded point is more effective, and the
difference is minimal. Rods protect by being the highest point. They are
a safe "point of attachment" for the lightning that will occur anyway.

If you place large "fuzzy" grounded objects on top of buildings, you will
dissipate any charges that build up and reduce the chance of lightening
strikes.

I got rid of a lightening problem by placing a large 2m ham band (144mHz)
antenna on my roof. It was a 12 foot beam with 10 vertical elements and
10 horizontal elements. At 144mHz it was an antenna, at DC (lightening)
it was just a big blob of aluminum connected to ground. So as charges
started to build up, they were dissipated.

There are commercial lightning protection systems that claim to work by
dissipating charge. Everything I have seen is that they don't work. I
believe they lost a court case in the US.

When I moved, I took down the antenna, I wonder what my neighbors thought
when the lightening returned. :-(

Geoff.

--
bud--

 

[Geoffrey S. Mendelson]

mm wrote:

Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

Stop buying junk. MOV surge protectors are really worthless junk. Here in
230v land, when they go, they often do so with a bang and sometimes catch
fire.

Look at TransTector ones. They use silicon avalance diodes which when compared
to MOVs are indestructable. They are more expensive but in the long run cheaper
as they don't fail like MOV ones.

You might also want to learn about how lightening works and how to avoid it.

Contrary to what people believe (yes Franklin got it wrong) lightening flows
from the GROUND UP. Once a path is opened from the ground, the polarity
reverses and the usual flash you see flows downward.

If you place grounded sharp pointed objects on top of buildings, you will
CREATE lightening.

If you place large "fuzzy" grounded objects on top of buildings, you will
dissipate any charges that build up and reduce the chance of lightening
strikes.

I got rid of a lightening problem by placing a large 2m ham band (144mHz)
antenna on my roof. It was a 12 foot beam with 10 vertical elements and
10 horizontal elements. At 144mHz it was an antenna, at DC (lightening)
it was just a big blob of aluminum connected to ground. So as charges
started to build up, they were dissipated.

When I moved, I took down the antenna, I wonder what my neighbors thought
when the lightening returned. :-(

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

 

[hrhofmann@att.net]

On Jan 30, 10:39 am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com>
wrote:

mm wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

Stop buying junk. MOV surge protectors are really worthless junk. Here in
230v land, when they go, they often do so with a bang and sometimes catch
fire.

Look at TransTector ones. They use silicon avalance diodes which when compared
to MOVs are indestructable. They are more expensive but in the long run cheaper
as they don't fail like MOV ones.

You might also want to learn about how lightening works and how to avoid it.

Contrary to what people believe (yes Franklin got it wrong) lightening flows
from the GROUND UP. Once a path is opened from the ground, the polarity
reverses and the usual flash you see flows downward.

If you place grounded sharp pointed objects on top of buildings, you will
CREATE lightening.

If you place large "fuzzy" grounded objects on top of buildings, you will
dissipate any charges that build up and reduce the chance of lightening
strikes.

I got rid of a lightening problem by placing a large 2m ham band (144mHz)
antenna on my roof. It was a 12 foot beam with 10 vertical elements and
10 horizontal elements. At 144mHz it was an antenna, at DC (lightening)
it was just a big blob of aluminum connected to ground. So as charges
started to build up, they were dissipated.

When I moved, I took down the antenna, I wonder what my neighbors thought
when the lightening returned. :-(

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

Geoff:

Lightening is what Michael Jackson did to his face. Lightning is that
big electrical discharge from the sky <G>

Bob Hofmann

 

[whit3rd]

On Jan 30, 8:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

Ask your home insurance agent. It's unlikely that the
prospect of homeowner repair of fire-safety items is
going to be highly regarded. Also ask if the damage
to your surge suppressor is covered by your insurance.

 

[mm]

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 11:07:53 -0600, bud-- <remove.budnews@isp.com>
wrote:

mm wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

It is an engineered device with internal protection matched to the MOVs.
I would never repair one.



I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of
them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.

Surge hits to a MOV deteriorate it. With high ratings a suppressor will
last a very long time. The worst case surge on a service power line to
your house that has any reasonable chance of occurring is 10,000A.
Suppressors with much higher ratings are readily available.

For a house, the IEEE recommends ratings of 20,000 to 70,000A _per
wire_. For high lightning areas the recommendation is 40,000 to 120,000A
_per wire_.


I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even
those units that might have them.

Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the
first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on)


I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can
repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly.

Make sure your fire insurance covers the suppressor you engineered.



Items for sale, if interested:
I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order:
http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Type-2-Protection-Device/dp/B003NVLWN2/ref=pd_luc_sbs_00_01_t_lh

This has minimal information and no ratings. Didn't look at the two below.

Yes, the Amazon ads seem to have less info than one would want on
something like this.

There are specs somewhere, adn I'll find them and compare with what
you've said.

I've been here 28 years and once I found smoke coming out of the
burglar alarm keypad/controller unit (yes, both) by the front door,
which might have been caused by lightning, although I didn't remember
any. Still the amount of vulerable equipment keeps growning and
growing.

Thanks, for this thread and the previous one, and thanks everybody.

http://www.amazon.com/INTERMATIC-IG3240RC3-PANEL-SURGE-ARRESTOR/dp/B003A3MUJI/ref=pd_luc_sbs_00_02_t_lh
http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Leviton-51120-1-Whole-House-Surge-Suppressor-Surge-Protector/p.aspx


and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)
http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1175CP-ARRESTER-LIGHTNG/dp/B002GUZ1NI

Also has minimal information and no ratings. If it only protects one
wire don't get it - get one made for a service protecting both wires. I
do like SquareD as a brand.

 

[Eike Lantzsch, ZP6CGE]

hrhofmann@att.net wrote:

On Jan 30, 10:39 am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com
wrote:
mm wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

[snip]
When I moved, I took down the antenna, I wonder what my neighbors thought
when the lightening returned. :-(

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

Geoff:

Lightening is what Michael Jackson did to his face. Lightning is that
big electrical discharge from the sky <G

Bob Hofmann

Well, it was en-lightening anyway ;-)

Kind regards, Eike

--
"The adventures may be mad, but the adventurer must be sane."
- G. K. Chesterton (1908)

 

[Michael Kennedy]

"whit3rd" <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:844078cf-ed6d->>493b-a693-227b095fc32c@x17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 30, 8:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

Ask your home insurance agent. It's unlikely that the
prospect of homeowner repair of fire-safety items is
going to be highly regarded. Also ask if the damage
to your surge suppressor is covered by your insurance.

If fixed properly, how would they know? As long as he isnt obviously
bodgeing something togeather it should be fine.

 

[Boris Mohar]

Leviton. Ground it well with as short ground wire as possible to good house
ground.




On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 11:03:05 -0500, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.


I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of
them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.

I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even
those units that might have them.

Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the
first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on)


I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can
repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly.


Items for sale, if interested:
I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order:
http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Type-2-Protection-Device/dp/B003NVLWN2/ref=pd_luc_sbs_00_01_t_lh
http://www.amazon.com/INTERMATIC-IG3240RC3-PANEL-SURGE-ARRESTOR/dp/B003A3MUJI/ref=pd_luc_sbs_00_02_t_lh
http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Leviton-51120-1-Whole-House-Surge-Suppressor-Surge-Protector/p.aspx


and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)
http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1175CP-ARRESTER-LIGHTNG/dp/B002GUZ1NI
--

Boris

 

[GS]

On Jan 30, 11:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor.  When one of
them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.

I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even
those units that might have them.

Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the
first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on)

I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can
repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly.

Items for sale, if interested:
I can install it myself.  I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Type-2-Protection-Device/d...http://www.amazon.com/INTERMATIC-IG3240RC3-PANEL-SURGE-ARRESTOR/dp/B0...http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Leviton-51120-1-Whole-House-Surge-Suppr...

and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1175CP-ARRESTER-LIGHTNG/dp/B002GUZ1NI

Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to
take it apart
you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is another
http://www.drillspot.com/products/122270/Square_D_SDSA1175_Surge_Arrestor_1_Phase_240VAC
Drillspot sells Grainger stuff.

greg

 

[mm]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:16:51 +0900, "Michael Kennedy"
<mikek400@crap.comcast.net> wrote:

"whit3rd" <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:844078cf-ed6d->>493b-a693-227b095fc32c@x17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 30, 8:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

Ask your home insurance agent. It's unlikely that the
prospect of homeowner repair of fire-safety items is
going to be highly regarded.

I didn't think of this until Michael posted but so what? Say I
repaired it and say I didn't do a good job: My insurance doesn't
require me to have a surge suprressor, so if I repair it and do a bad
job, and it doesn't cause damage nor does it prevent damage the next
time, they are no worse off than if I had never bought one. So they
should still pay.

I want the SurgeSupp is more so I don't have to go shopping again, and
read new instruction manuals.

Also ask if the damage
to your surge suppressor is covered by your insurance.

If fixed properly, how would they know? As long as he isnt obviously
bodgeing something togeather it should be fine.

Yes. Also, I hadn't even considered claiming damage to the surge
suppressor on my insureance.

So do they sell at retail the MOVs or other parts I would need rebuild
a surge suppressor.

 

[mm]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:37:32 -0800 (PST), GS <zekor@comcast.net>
wrote:

On Jan 31, 9:45 am, GS <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Jan 30, 11:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:



Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor.  When one of
them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.

I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even
those units that might have them.

Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the
first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on)

I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can
repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly.

Items for sale, if interested:
I can install it myself.  I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Type-2-Protection-Device/d......

and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1175CP-ARRESTER-LIGHTNG/dp/B002GUZ1NI

Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to
take it apart
you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is anotherhttp://www.drillspot.com/products/122270/Square_D_SDSA1175_Surge_Arre...
Drillspot sells Grainger stuff.

Thanks. Now it's 56 dollars. I see that Amazon has this 36 also
including shipping.

greg

So I showed you the same model you showed first. But, you do NOT need
TWO.

Oh, thank you. I got confused by the drawing, at
http://surgelogic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/SDSA1175_IB_8291-0014F.pdf
which shows two for 3-phase (but only one for single-phase), and since
it has only 3 wires, one to the neutral, but none to the ground like
some others have.

Do you think I should to connect a surge suppressor to unused circuit
breakers? Some instructions say to do that for increased sensitivity
but others say nothing about it. Because the circuits I wanted to
use are often off or almost totally off, just the baseline portable tv
current or a cordless phone charger running.

It also says "Twist wires one half turn or more for
every 12 in. (305 mm) of length." That means when all three wires are
running together, right? In conduit or something? Once they
separate, even if the wires are stranded, there's no point to twisting
them, is there?

There seems like a lot of confusion on protectors and the
manufacturers seem
to have various schemes going on. Some of the very small portable
devices by
Tripplite have ratings that indicate higher amps than the regular
whole house protectors. I installed the 'secondary" protector in my
breaker box

If thse are secondary, as they also call them, then where is the
primary? On the electric pole?

and I probably have 10 other protectors all around the house.

You should not have to keep buying new ones. You got some kind of
problem that requires attention.

I've never even needed one. I was just planning ahead.

greg

Thanks a lot, GB, and thanks everyone.

 

[GS]

On Jan 31, 9:45 am, GS <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:

On Jan 30, 11:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:



Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor.  When one of
them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.

I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even
those units that might have them.

Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the
first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on)

I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can
repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly.

Items for sale, if interested:
I can install it myself.  I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Type-2-Protection-Device/d......

and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1175CP-ARRESTER-LIGHTNG/dp/B002GUZ1NI

Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to
take it apart
you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is anotherhttp://www.drillspot.com/products/122270/Square_D_SDSA1175_Surge_Arre...
Drillspot sells Grainger stuff.

greg

So I showed you the same model you showed first. But, you do NOT need
TWO.

There seems like a lot of confusion on protectors and the
manufacturers seem
to have various schemes going on. Some of the very small portable
devices by
Tripplite have ratings that indicate higher amps than the regular
whole house protectors. I installed the 'secondary" protector in my
breaker box
and I probably have 10 other protectors all around the house.

You should not have to keep buying new ones. You got some kind of
problem that
requires attention.

greg

 

[GS]

On Jan 31, 11:57 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:16:51 +0900, "Michael Kennedy"

mikek...@crap.comcast.net> wrote:

"whit3rd" <whit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:844078cf-ed6d->>493b-a693-227b095fc__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$z__@x17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 30, 8:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

Ask your home insurance agent.  It's unlikely that the
prospect of homeowner repair of fire-safety items is
going to be highly regarded.  

I didn't think of this until Michael posted but so what?  Say I
repaired it and say I didn't do a good job: My insurance doesn't
require me to have a surge suprressor, so if I repair it and do a bad
job, and it doesn't cause damage nor does it prevent damage the next
time, they are no worse off than if I had never bought one.   So they
should still pay.  

I want the SurgeSupp is more so I don't have to go shopping again, and
read new instruction manuals.

Also ask if the damage
to your surge suppressor is covered by your insurance.

If fixed properly, how would they know? As long as he isnt obviously
bodgeing something togeather it should be fine.

Yes.  Also, I hadn't even considered claiming damage to the surge
suppressor on my insureance.

So do they sell at retail the MOVs or other parts I would need rebuild
a surge suppressor.

Yes.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062574#

You can also rent a suppressor from the electric company which they
will
install in your meter. I have no idea how they would know if it goes
bad.

greg

 

[GS]

On Jan 31, 12:01 pm, GS <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:

On Jan 31, 11:57 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:



On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:16:51 +0900, "Michael Kennedy"

mikek...@crap.comcast.net> wrote:

"whit3rd" <whit...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:844078cf-ed6d->>493b-a693-227b095fc__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$z__@x17g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 30, 8:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

Ask your home insurance agent.  It's unlikely that the
prospect of homeowner repair of fire-safety items is
going to be highly regarded.  

I didn't think of this until Michael posted but so what?  Say I
repaired it and say I didn't do a good job: My insurance doesn't
require me to have a surge suprressor, so if I repair it and do a bad
job, and it doesn't cause damage nor does it prevent damage the next
time, they are no worse off than if I had never bought one.   So they
should still pay.  

I want the SurgeSupp is more so I don't have to go shopping again, and
read new instruction manuals.

Also ask if the damage
to your surge suppressor is covered by your insurance.

If fixed properly, how would they know? As long as he isnt obviously
bodgeing something togeather it should be fine.

Yes.  Also, I hadn't even considered claiming damage to the surge
suppressor on my insureance.

So do they sell at retail the MOVs or other parts I would need rebuild
a surge suppressor.

Yes.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062574#

You can also rent a suppressor from the electric company which they
will
install in your meter. I have no idea how they would know if it goes
bad.

greg

Compare this to the Leviton Joule rating.

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=830&txtModelID=121

 

[William Sommerwerck]

The "parallel" components (such as MOVs) in a surge suppressor will have
some effect on every other parallel line (lines connected to the same
phase). It doesn't matter whether any device is attached to the suppressor,
or is turned on.

 

[GS]

On Jan 31, 12:19 pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:37:32 -0800 (PST), GS <ze...@comcast.net
wrote:



On Jan 31, 9:45 am, GS <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Jan 30, 11:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:

Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of
them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does..

I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even
those units that might have them.

Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the
first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on)

I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can
repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly.

Items for sale, if interested:
I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Type-2-Protection-Device/d......

and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1175CP-ARRESTER-LIGHTNG/dp/B002GUZ1NI

Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to
take it apart
you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is anotherhttp://www.drillspot.com/products/122270/Square_D_SDSA1175_Surge_Arre...
Drillspot sells Grainger stuff.

Thanks.  Now it's 56 dollars.   I see that Amazon has this 36 also
including shipping.



greg

So I showed you the same model you showed first. But, you do NOT need
TWO.

Oh, thank you.  I got confused by the drawing, athttp://surgelogic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/SDSA1175_IB_8291-001...
which shows two for 3-phase (but only one for single-phase), and since
it has only 3 wires, one to the neutral, but none to the ground like
some others have.  

Do you think I should to connect a surge suppressor to unused circuit
breakers?  Some instructions say to do that for increased sensitivity
but others say nothing about it.    Because the circuits I wanted to
use are often off or almost totally off, just the baseline portable tv
current or a cordless phone charger running.

Codes may be different. Some circuit breakers will work with two
wires, many
will NOT. Its specified in the breaker specs. It may be against code
in your area.

The picked up the cheapest Home Depot and it will work with two wires,
and
stranded wires.

It also says "Twist wires one half turn or more for
every 12 in. (305 mm) of length."  That means when all three wires are
running together, right?  In conduit or something?  Once they
separate, even if the wires are stranded, there's no point to twisting
them, is there?

Right.

There seems like a lot of confusion on protectors and the
manufacturers seem
to have various schemes going on. Some of the very small portable
devices by
Tripplite have ratings that indicate higher amps than the regular
whole house protectors. I installed the 'secondary" protector in my
breaker box

If thse are secondary, as they also call them, then where is the
primary?  On the electric pole?

Secondary seems to mostly refer to devices near or attached to the
equipment.
Like, your whole house air conditioner might use a secondary
suppressor
near the unit, which is fed from the breaker box wiring.
Secondary devices will be attached via a breaker in any case.
Primary?? Maybe the one in the meter.

and I probably have 10 other protectors all around the house.

You should not have to keep buying new ones. You got some kind of
problem that requires attention.

I've never even needed one.  I was just planning ahead.



greg

Good going.

greg

Thanks a lot, GB, and thanks everyone.

 

[Bob Villa]

On Jan 30, 10:39 am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com>
wrote:

mm wrote:
Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?

At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.

Stop buying junk. MOV surge protectors are really worthless junk. Here in
230v land, when they go, they often do so with a bang and sometimes catch
fire.

Look at TransTector ones. They use silicon avalance diodes which when compared
to MOVs are indestructable. They are more expensive but in the long run cheaper
as they don't fail like MOV ones.

You might also want to learn about how lightening works and how to avoid it.

Contrary to what people believe (yes Franklin got it wrong) lightening flows
from the GROUND UP. Once a path is opened from the ground, the polarity
reverses and the usual flash you see flows downward.

If you place grounded sharp pointed objects on top of buildings, you will
CREATE lightening.

If you place large "fuzzy" grounded objects on top of buildings, you will
dissipate any charges that build up and reduce the chance of lightening
strikes.

I got rid of a lightening problem by placing a large 2m ham band (144mHz)
antenna on my roof. It was a 12 foot beam with 10 vertical elements and
10 horizontal elements. At 144mHz it was an antenna, at DC (lightening)
it was just a big blob of aluminum connected to ground. So as charges
started to build up, they were dissipated.

When I moved, I took down the antenna, I wonder what my neighbors thought
when the lightening returned. :-(

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

I think you mean lightning.

 

[bud--]

mm wrote:

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:37:32 -0800 (PST), GS <zekor@comcast.net
wrote:

On Jan 31, 9:45 am, GS <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Jan 30, 11:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:



Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.
I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of
them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.
I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even
those units that might have them.
Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the
first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on)
I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can
repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly.
Items for sale, if interested:
I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Type-2-Protection-Device/d......
and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1175CP-ARRESTER-LIGHTNG/dp/B002GUZ1NI
Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to
take it apart
you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is anotherhttp://www.drillspot.com/products/122270/Square_D_SDSA1175_Surge_Arre...
Drillspot sells Grainger stuff.

Thanks. Now it's 56 dollars. I see that Amazon has this 36 also
including shipping.
greg
So I showed you the same model you showed first. But, you do NOT need
TWO.

Oh, thank you. I got confused by the drawing, at
http://surgelogic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/SDSA1175_IB_8291-0014F.pdf
which shows two for 3-phase (but only one for single-phase), and since
it has only 3 wires, one to the neutral, but none to the ground like
some others have.

It is intended for installation in a service panel. In the US, the
service panel (containing the service disconnect) has the neutral and
ground bonded together

In a subpanel (with separate neutral and ground bars) there would be
separate wires for the neutral and ground.

Do you think I should to connect a surge suppressor to unused circuit
breakers? Some instructions say to do that for increased sensitivity
but others say nothing about it. Because the circuits I wanted to
use are often off or almost totally off, just the baseline portable tv
current or a cordless phone charger running.

It shouldn't matter.

(You are suppressing surges on the service busbars, not branch circuit.
Not obvious if you were saying something different.)

It also says "Twist wires one half turn or more for
every 12 in. (305 mm) of length." That means when all three wires are
running together, right? In conduit or something? Once they
separate, even if the wires are stranded, there's no point to twisting
them, is there?

A surge is a very short-time event. Therefore it has relatively high
frequency components. The inductance of the wire is more important than
the resistance. Wire length is more important than it would seem. You
want a short connecting wires from the suppressor to the panel
connections. That is why the instructions say "keep the wire length as
short as possible. If the wires are in close proximity the wire
inductance is reduced. That is why the wires are slightly twisted.

There seems like a lot of confusion on protectors and the
manufacturers seem
to have various schemes going on. Some of the very small portable
devices by
Tripplite have ratings that indicate higher amps than the regular
whole house protectors. I installed the 'secondary" protector in my
breaker box

A useful rating for a MOV is its joule rating. UL does not have a
defined way of specifying joules. As a result some manufacturers are
using misleading or deceptive joule ratings on their products, which
puts honest manufacturers at a disadvantage. As a result, some
manufacturers no longer provide a joule rating. The amp rating is
equivalent, but defined. A high amp rating (like a high joule rating)
indicates a suppressor will have a long life. A plug-in suppressor with
high ratings could have an amp rating higher than a service panel
suppressor. (There is no possibility of a very high current on a branch
circuit; high current ratings just reflects a high joule rating.)

MOVs intrinsically try to limit the voltage across their terminals. In a
service panel the H-N voltages are limited (also H-H). That can result
in a high current to earth. Most of the energy in the incoming surge is
dumped to the earth. A small part of the energy is dissipated in the MOVs.

At a plug-in suppressor, the MOVs also limits the voltage H-G, N-G and
H-N. Because of the impedance of the ground wire, not much energy gets
dumped to the earth. But because of the impedance of the H and N, there
is similarly a very limited current that can flow. Energy dissipated in
the MOVs is surprisingly small (and there is another reason for this).
But the "ground potential" at the suppressor can be far different from
the service panel. All interconnected equipment needs to be connected to
the same suppressor and all external wires (power, phone, cable, ...)
need to go through the suppressor. The voltage on all wires is clamped
to the ground at the suppressor.

--
bud--