Is battery leakage suddenly more common?...

[Tim R]

I went to replace the AA in a kitchen timer and found it had leaked out of both ends.

I think I\'ve had more of these leak in the past year or so than in the previous ten. Is there something different in manufacture, or am I just unlucky?

I usually take batteries out of stuff I won\'t need right away but they\'ve been leaking in a plastic bag anyway.

 

[danny burstein]

In <6717f0c9-7259-4ec4-a82e-fc5edab333a1n@googlegroups.com> Tim R <timothy42bach@gmail.com> writes:

I went to replace the AA in a kitchen timer and found it had leaked out of both ends.

I think I\'ve had more of these leak in the past year or so than in the previous ten. Is there something different in manufacture, or am I just unlucky?

I noticed this starting about 15 years ago. The first time
was with a bunch of Sears Die Hard branded AA\'s and D\'s.

A couple of years later I ran into this with name brand
Duracell and Everready.

I suspect just about all these companies now just
slap their label on \"cheapest supplier of the week\"...


--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 17:01:36 -0700 (PDT), Tim R
<timothy42bach@gmail.com> wrote:

I went to replace the AA in a kitchen timer and found it had leaked out of both ends.
I think I\'ve had more of these leak in the past year or so than in the previous ten. Is there something different in manufacture, or am I just unlucky?
I usually take batteries out of stuff I won\'t need right away but they\'ve been leaking in a plastic bag anyway.

These AAA alkaline cells were made in 2007. This is what they looked
like in about 2016 or 2017:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg>
Not much has changed since then. I typically purchase batteries in
lots of 50 or more. I\'ve noticed that all the batteries from a single
lot act much in the same way. In other words, they all leak at the
same time. With some lots, I get lucky and they never leak. Others,
like those in the photos, will leak while still in the bubble package.
The SoC (state of charge) doesn\'t seem to matter. I\'m finding almost
discharged and unused batteries start to leak at the same time.
Temperature does make a difference. Alkaline cells stored in the
refrigerator (not freezer) last longer before they leak, but will
eventually leak anyway.

Over the years, I\'ve systematically removed alkaline batteries from my
equipment and replaced them with whatever is appropriate. I\'ve had
good luck with Energizer Ultimate Lithium cells. They\'re expensive,
but so it the equipment a leaky battery will ruin.
<https://www.energizer.com/about-batteries/no-leaks-guarantee>
<https://www.energizer.com/about-batteries/battery-leakage>

For most everything else, I\'ve switched to either NiMH, LiIon, or LiPo
rechargeable cells. For LiIon and LiPo, I install voltage dropping
diodes, a regulator IC, or something to bring the voltage down to
something that won\'t destroy the electronics. NiMH is close enough to
alkaline cell voltage that it can be used without modification.

For 9V batteries, I use the 600ma-hr LiPo rechargeable replacements:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/124977792380>
Quality sucks, prices have doubled to $8/ea, but long term cost of
ownership is still much better than having alkaline batteries trash my
equipment. Besides being rechargeable, they LiIon and LiPo will hold
their charge for a long time. It\'s nice having an almost fully
charged battery ready when I decide to use a rarely used piece of
equipment.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Bill Gill]

On 7/20/2022 7:01 PM, Tim R wrote:

I went to replace the AA in a kitchen timer and found it had leaked out of both ends.

I think I\'ve had more of these leak in the past year or so than in the previous ten. Is there something different in manufacture, or am I just unlucky?

I usually take batteries out of stuff I won\'t need right away but they\'ve been leaking in a plastic bag anyway.

I have had bad luck with Duracell batteries. They seem to leak when
used in items that are low usage. The emergency flashlight in my bedside
table and the batteries in my thermostat for example. I have had to
spend quite a bit of time, off and on, cleaning contacts when I used
Duracell.

Now I always use Energizer batteries. I have never had any of them
leak.

Bill

 

[Tim R]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 8:01:39 PM UTC-4, Tim R wrote:

I went to replace the AA in a kitchen timer and found it had leaked out of both ends.

I think I\'ve had more of these leak in the past year or so than in the previous ten. Is there something different in manufacture, or am I just unlucky?

My aging brain had made an invalid comparison to fuel oil.
Back in the mid 90\'s I was an engineer working on an underground storage tank replacement for the military, trying to meet the new tank requirements. Back then the military had a requirement for redundant backups, and some buildings had large fuel oil storage even if they\'d been converted to gas. I ended up digging up a couple hundred tanks and only replacing about 20 of the big ones, which were refilled with fresh #2 fuel oil. Some of the old oil had been unused for decades but it was still good; disposal was cheap because it was all recyclable. One of those tanks needed to be removed again a few years later when the building was demolished. That oil had decomposed due to biological action. There was more than a foot of jello on the bottom. I did some research and found the chemistry of fuel oil had changed during that time period and it was not as stable.

Sorry for the trip down memory lane. That was a good project, I brought it in 2 years early and $2 million under budget, my boss got promoted. (and eventually I became the boss so it all worked out)

 

[Dave Platt]

In article <tbbk1k$2cu7r$1@dont-email.me>,
Bill Gill <billnews2@cox.net> wrote:

I have had bad luck with Duracell batteries. They seem to leak when
used in items that are low usage. The emergency flashlight in my bedside
table and the batteries in my thermostat for example. I have had to
spend quite a bit of time, off and on, cleaning contacts when I used
Duracell.

Now I always use Energizer batteries. I have never had any of them
leak.

I\'ve had a similar experience, both with Duracell, and with the Costco
Kirkland house-brand batteries which are reputed to be made by the
Duracell plants. The first Kirkland batteries I bought (for some years)
were fine, but in the last 5 years or more they\'ve been prone to leak
in those low-usage applications.

What I\'ve heard is that this leakage problem is tied to the removal of
mercury from the alkaline-battery chemistry. In the older batteries,
a small amount of a mercury compound acts as some sort of scavenger in
the electrochemistry, binding up one of the post-discharge chemical
products somehow. Without the mercury, even a partial discharge of
the battery triggers a corrosive process which attacks the metal
in the battery\'s outer shell, and leaks result.

I\'ve even had Kirkland AA batteries leak while still in the original
package, well before their \"best by\" date, when they hadn\'t ever
been discharged at all.

I\'ve been buying Energizer AA and AAA alkalines more recently and have
not had leak problems. Buying the \"industrial\" versions in bulk seems
to be the way to go - they\'re the same batteries as the consumer
blister-pack versions (according to the manufacturer) but are distinctly
cheaper.

The best reliability and lifetime seems to come from the \"Ultimate\"
lithium AA and AAA cells. They\'re pricey (again, best to buy in
bulk) but I have yet to have any leak, at any level of discharge.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 10:46:36 -0700, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
Platt) wrote:

What I\'ve heard is that this leakage problem is tied to the removal of
mercury from the alkaline-battery chemistry. In the older batteries,
a small amount of a mercury compound acts as some sort of scavenger in
the electrochemistry, binding up one of the post-discharge chemical
products somehow. Without the mercury, even a partial discharge of
the battery triggers a corrosive process which attacks the metal
in the battery\'s outer shell, and leaks result.

That\'s also what I\'ve heard. However, I can\'t seem to find any
research reports or papers on the topic of lead (stabilizer) in
alkaline cells. So far, this is what I\'ve collected:

This article, from 1999 has some details and is the source of quite a
bit of the cut-n-paste vague comments on lead in alkaline cells:
<https://www.rfglobalnet.com/doc/lithium-battery-power-sources-for-remote-or-p-0001>
<https://www.custompower.com/alkaline-batteries>
<https://www.pmbl.co.uk/alkaline-batteries>
\"In the early 90s, government mandate ruled out the use of mercury in
alkaline cells providing a major challenge to manufacturers. Mercury,
an environmental pollutant, was used in alkaline batteries as an
anti-passivation stabilizer for the zinc electrode. Without mercury,
chemical processes within the battery cause the zinc to function less
efficiently as discharge proceeds because of passivation of zinc
surface, thus limiting useful battery life. Manufacturers, such as
Energizer and Duracell rose to the challenge and we now have mercury
free cells that function just as well as their predecessors.\"

More recent stuff from the EPA:
<https://www.epa.gov/mercury/mercury-batteries>

\"IMERC Fact Sheet Mercury Use in Batteries\" (2015)
<https://www.newmoa.org/prevention/mercury/imerc/factsheets/batteries_2015.pdf>
\"Gas can form in all of these types of button batteries due to the
corrosion of zinc. Zinc in the battery gets corroded into the
electrolyte as the battery is used. This corrosion can cause
electrolysis and can cause the generation of hydrogen gas in the
canister. Build-up of hydrogen gas can cause the battery to leak,
limiting the ability of the battery to function. Mercury suppresses
this zinc corrosion, which is why it is added to button-cell
batteries. These batteries may contain mercury in the insulating paper
surrounding the battery, or mercury may be mixed in the anode itself.
Any chance you have some references or maybe a research report? I\'ve
been chasing this one for years without any luck.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Peter W.]

I have a rather simple-minded approach to batteries, and so far that has paid off:
a) Use Name-Brand only. Those that guarantee \'full replacement\' of any item damaged by their failure. No others, no matter how attractive the price.
b) Do not leave standard (non-hard-wired rechargeable) batteries in-situ unless they are checked every six (6) months.
c) Pay attention to self-discharge rates when choosing types.
d) Pay attention to date-codes.
e) Dispose of \'spent\' batteries as hazardous landfill - our township accepts any and all sorts of batteries from all residents at no cost.

Pretty much covers it.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[danny burstein]

In <cac3b67b-b3b5-483a-b2ae-923c773fe557n@googlegroups.com> \"Peter W.\" <peterwieck33@gmail.com> writes:

I have a rather simple-minded approach to batteries, and so far that has paid off:
[snip]

>Pretty much covers it.

I _love_ the (yeah, they\'re cheap) LED flashlights
that have a \"three cell holder\" for the AA/AAAs.

I pull out the holder, place the cells in it,
then put the flashlight and the holder, separately,
into a Ziplock brand Baggie...

It\'s just a matter of five seconds to put it
back together

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 11:34:50 -0700 (PDT), \"Peter W.\"
<peterwieck33@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a rather simple-minded approach to batteries, and so far that has paid off:
a) Use Name-Brand only. Those that guarantee \'full replacement\' of any item damaged by their failure. No others, no matter how attractive the price.
b) Do not leave standard (non-hard-wired rechargeable) batteries in-situ unless they are checked every six (6) months.
c) Pay attention to self-discharge rates when choosing types.
d) Pay attention to date-codes.
e) Dispose of \'spent\' batteries as hazardous landfill - our township accepts any and all sorts of batteries from all residents at no cost.

Pretty much covers it.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

May I suggest a few additions to your list:
f) Watch out for \"phantom loads\" or \"parasitic drain\", where the
device does not quite turn off completely and slowly discharges the
battery. Digital calipers are a common example.
g) Make a list of every device you own that contains a battery with
the potential of leaking. When I first did this, I had over 200
gizmos that required regular inspection. As I started replacing
alkaline cells with rechargeable cells (that don\'t leak), the list is
now down to about 40 gizmos.
h) The local landfill takes batteries, but requires that 9V battery
terminals be insulated with tape. Apparently, they had a problem.
This is what happened when a friend shorted a 9V alkaline Duracell:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>
i) Store new batteries in the fridge. That slows down any internal
chemical reactions that might corrode the battery. Don\'t forget to
let them warm to room temperature before using.
j) Select your battery charger carefully. Overcharging will kill
batteries.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Dave Platt]

In article <ka4jdh5osisg7fv9q19f6kn7bskosv9s7e@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Any chance you have some references or maybe a research report? I\'ve
been chasing this one for years without any luck.

Nope, I\'m afraid not. All I have is diffusion-of-story, not anywhere
near as concentrated as the two boluses you just cited

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 12:17:35 -0700, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
Platt) wrote:

In article <ka4jdh5osisg7fv9q19f6kn7bskosv9s7e@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

Any chance you have some references or maybe a research report? I\'ve
been chasing this one for years without any luck.

Nope, I\'m afraid not. All I have is diffusion-of-story, not anywhere
near as concentrated as the two boluses you just cited

Oh well. I would expect that the invention of lead free batteries of
various types would be patentable. Yet, when I\'ve dived into the
patent pool and searched for such a miraculous invention, I find
nothing. I might try again if time permits. Thanks.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Charles Lucas]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 7:01:39 PM UTC-5, timoth...@gmail.com wrote:

I went to replace the AA in a kitchen timer and found it had leaked out of both ends.

I think I\'ve had more of these leak in the past year or so than in the previous ten. Is there something different in manufacture, or am I just unlucky?

In my google search \"has the quality of alkaline batteries gotten worse over time\", several different
sites come up including popular mechanics. Click on or copy the link from below:

Why Your Gadgets\' Batteries Degrade Over Time

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/how-to/a7432/why-your-gadgets-batteries-degrade-over-time-6705747/

https://www.google.com/search?q=has+quality+of+alkaline+batteries+gotten+worse+over+time&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS952US960&oq=has+quality+of+alkaline+batteries+gotten+worse&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j33i160l2j33i299.22003j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=https%3A//www.rd.com/article/shouldnt%2Dbuy%2Dbatteries%2Ddollar%2Dstore/

What I gleaned from reading the content on these links is that even with the best conditions, you will have
a dead battery in 3-4 years. They recommend rechargeable batteries best. The \"Rayovac\" brand primarily is
the worst and leaks the most (in most cases- except for one). The dollar store batteries are made with zinc
and another chemical are not recommended and do not last as long.

The key is alkaline batteries are good, but they have gone up in price. For the costs involved, you
can get a rechargeable battery and have it be more serviceable in the long run. If you are dead set
on getting or using alkaline batteries as many devices say you can use, you may consider getting
an alkaline battery charger, so you can pull the batteries out of the device and utilize the charger
to charge them. The chargers will even do 9-volt alkaline batteries as well.. With batteries running
up in cost to $5.00 each for alkaline, it is not a bad idea to get an alkaline recharger device, if you
use alkaline batteries.

For long term storage, the recommendations for batteries are drain the power down 50% of duty
cycle (power capacity). Store in a cool place (refrigeration). When you go to use them, you need
to charge them up full on a trickle charge or use the recharger. Make sure they are at 100% before
you use them and then run the down fully. Use the recharger and you are back to normal usage.

Consider other variables, excessive heat, humidity, moisture, the deep freeze, and other conditions.
All batteries in some way are a chemistry problem. The chemical composition each is made of has
to factor in the appropriate application you intend to use the battery for and how often you use the
device (especially timers and other appliances that have intermittent or from time to time use).

Just thought I would impart this advice and encourage you to read several links from the google
search quoted. God Bless you and have a great day.

Sincerely,


Charles Lucas

I usually take batteries out of stuff I won\'t need right away but they\'ve been leaking in a plastic bag anyway.

P.S. It depends on the what materials the cases are composed of that holds the chemistry inside of the casing.
Quality can vary. Buyer Beware and avoid sticker shock on the high prices of batteries. They have really gone up.

 

[Peter W.]

f) Watch out for \"phantom loads\" or \"parasitic drain\", where the
device does not quite turn off completely and slowly discharges the
battery. Digital calipers are a common example.

Phantom (or expensive) load devices keep batteries only when in use. Even the one with the niggly little access screws.

Starrett tools are pricey enough to make the bit of extra trouble worth it.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 06:01:45 -0700 (PDT), \"Peter W.\"
<peterwieck33@gmail.com> wrote:

f) Watch out for \"phantom loads\" or \"parasitic drain\", where the
device does not quite turn off completely and slowly discharges the
battery. Digital calipers are a common example.

Phantom (or expensive) load devices keep batteries only when in use. Even the one with the niggly little access screws.

Starrett tools are pricey enough to make the bit of extra trouble worth it.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Starrett and Mitutoyo calipers are not a problem. They turn off
completely and don\'t drain the battery. The problem is the cheap
calipers commonly found on Harbor Fright, eBay and Amazon.
<http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Caliper-Batteries/>
Typical complaint:
<https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/chinese-digital-calipers-and-battery-life.331105/>

There are various solutions. The easiest is to simply remove the
button cells when the calipers are not in use. That\'s what I do. I
also use silver-oxide button cells instead of alkaline. Silver-oxide
cells have a flat discharge voltage curve and will remain alive for
longer. There are also some rather crude solutions:
<https://community.glowforge.com/t/solved-cheap-calipers-draining-batteries/99493>
Oddly, I have the calipers in the photo and they do NOT exhibit a
self-discharge problem.

I also have a pile of these calipers that were salvaged from a machine
shop \"auction\". All of this style will self discharge to varying
degrees:
<https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/362>
The big problem is loosing the plastic battery cover.

More on the topic:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=caliper+battery+discharge>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:24:31 -0700 (PDT), Charles Lucas
<charlesandmilly@gmail.com> wrote:

What I gleaned from reading the content on these links is that even with the best conditions, you will have
a dead battery in 3-4 years.

I think you\'re confusing different battery chemistries. Shelf life on
alkaline batteries is guaranteed by the manufactory to be 5, 7, or 10
years from date of manufacture depending on vendor.

For NiMH cells, I use Eneloop LSD (low self discharge cells). I\'ve
tested their ability to hold a charge and found them to 80% charged at
1 years.

>They recommend rechargeable batteries best.

Agreed, especially LiIon or battery yet, LiFePO4.

The \"Rayovac\" brand primarily is
the worst and leaks the most (in most cases- except for one). The dollar store batteries are made with zinc
and another chemical are not recommended and do not last as long.

Most alkaline batteries are made with zinc. Notice how often zinc is
mentioned in the Wikipedia article:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_battery>

The key is alkaline batteries are good, but they have gone up in price. For the costs involved, you
can get a rechargeable battery and have it be more serviceable in the long run.

Rechargeable batteries have also increased in cost.

If you are dead set
on getting or using alkaline batteries as many devices say you can use, you may consider getting
an alkaline battery charger, so you can pull the batteries out of the device and utilize the charger
to charge them. The chargers will even do 9-volt alkaline batteries as well. With batteries running
up in cost to $5.00 each for alkaline, it is not a bad idea to get an alkaline recharger device, if you
use alkaline batteries.

WRONG! Conventional alkaline cells are not rechargeable. If you
look, I think it even says so on the package. However, there are
rechargeable alkaline cells that can be PARTIALLY recharged. Unlike
other rechargeable chemistries, rechargeable alkaline cells recover an
ever decreasing percentage of full charge until they are useless.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_alkaline_battery>
The also have a miserable self discharge time, where they are dead if
not used within 6 months. The combination of these \"features\" make
rechargeable alkaline cells somewhat useless.

For long term storage, the recommendations for batteries are drain the power down 50% of duty
cycle (power capacity).

That\'s the common recommendation for rechargeable cells. It\'s
generally true for LiIon. It\'s not true for NiMH. In reality, the
50% charge storage recommendation is to make the batteries safe for
shipping:
<https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52apxc_032.htm>
<https://www.ups.com/assets/resources/media/en_US/pack_ship_batteries.pdf>
\"In accordance with IATA, all lithium ion batteries (without
equipment) shipped by air must not exceed 30% SoC.\"

Store in a cool place (refrigeration). When you go to use them, you need
to charge them up full on a trickle charge or use the recharger.

Not exactly. Each chemistry has its own charge profile. For example,
the best way to kill a random battery is to \"fast charge\" it. Also,
trickle chargers don\'t work well with some chemistries. Use a charger
that matches the manufacturers recommendations for the battery
chemistry.

Make sure they are at 100% before
you use them and then run the down fully. Use the recharger and you are back to normal usage.

Running LiIon, NiCd, NiMH, and lead-acid batteries to zero are a great
way to kill them. That why LiIon battery packs come with a BMS
(battery management system) PC board to prevent you from completely
discharging the battery. For a time, NiCd cells did have a \"memory
effect\" problem which could be reversed by discharging to zero, but
that\'s no longer the case with modern battery chemistries.

Consider other variables, excessive heat, humidity, moisture, the deep freeze, and other conditions.
All batteries in some way are a chemistry problem. The chemical composition each is made of has
to factor in the appropriate application you intend to use the battery for and how often you use the
device (especially timers and other appliances that have intermittent or from time to time use).

Just thought I would impart this advice and encourage you to read several links from the google
search quoted. God Bless you and have a great day.

Well, you\'re off to a bad start in the information business. However,
don\'t take it personally. Understanding the characteristics of
various battery chemistries is tricky and often confusing. There\'s
also quite a bit of bad advice on the internet. I suggest skimming
this site for better information. There are things I disagree with on
the site, but it\'s better than most:
<https://batteryuniversity.com>

Sincerely,


Charles Lucas



I usually take batteries out of stuff I won\'t need right away but they\'ve been leaking in a plastic bag anyway.

P.S. It depends on the what materials the cases are composed of that holds the chemistry inside of the casing.
Quality can vary. Buyer Beware and avoid sticker shock on the high prices of batteries. They have really gone up.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Charles Lucas]

On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 10:45:32 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:24:31 -0700 (PDT), Charles Lucas
charles...@gmail.com> wrote:

What I gleaned from reading the content on these links is that even with the best conditions, you will have
a dead battery in 3-4 years.
I think you\'re confusing different battery chemistries. Shelf life on
alkaline batteries is guaranteed by the manufactory to be 5, 7, or 10
years from date of manufacture depending on vendor.

Manufacturers can say anything for their marketing and to get your money out of you. I have rarely ever seen
a product live up to its claim- especially in regards to time. Buyer Beware. I am inclined to think that in regards
to batteries, the data about them is made up on longevity. Then it depends upon the conditions that are subjected
to that. Tell me, who really tests these batteries anyways to determine how long they last?

For NiMH cells, I use Eneloop LSD (low self discharge cells). I\'ve
tested their ability to hold a charge and found them to 80% charged at
1 years.
They recommend rechargeable batteries best.
Agreed, especially LiIon or battery yet, LiFePO4.
The \"Rayovac\" brand primarily is
the worst and leaks the most (in most cases- except for one). The dollar store batteries are made with zinc
and another chemical are not recommended and do not last as long.
Most alkaline batteries are made with zinc. Notice how often zinc is
mentioned in the Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_battery
The key is alkaline batteries are good, but they have gone up in price. For the costs involved, you
can get a rechargeable battery and have it be more serviceable in the long run.
Rechargeable batteries have also increased in cost.
If you are dead set
on getting or using alkaline batteries as many devices say you can use, you may consider getting
an alkaline battery charger, so you can pull the batteries out of the device and utilize the charger
to charge them. The chargers will even do 9-volt alkaline batteries as well. With batteries running
up in cost to $5.00 each for alkaline, it is not a bad idea to get an alkaline recharger device, if you
use alkaline batteries.
WRONG! Conventional alkaline cells are not rechargeable. If you
look, I think it even says so on the package. However, there are
rechargeable alkaline cells that can be PARTIALLY recharged. Unlike
other rechargeable chemistries, rechargeable alkaline cells recover an
ever decreasing percentage of full charge until they are useless.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_alkaline_battery
The also have a miserable self discharge time, where they are dead if
not used within 6 months. The combination of these \"features\" make
rechargeable alkaline cells somewhat useless.
For long term storage, the recommendations for batteries are drain the power down 50% of duty
cycle (power capacity).
That\'s the common recommendation for rechargeable cells. It\'s
generally true for LiIon. It\'s not true for NiMH. In reality, the
50% charge storage recommendation is to make the batteries safe for
shipping:
https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52apxc_032.htm
https://www.ups.com/assets/resources/media/en_US/pack_ship_batteries.pdf
\"In accordance with IATA, all lithium ion batteries (without
equipment) shipped by air must not exceed 30% SoC.\"
Store in a cool place (refrigeration). When you go to use them, you need
to charge them up full on a trickle charge or use the recharger.
Not exactly. Each chemistry has its own charge profile. For example,
the best way to kill a random battery is to \"fast charge\" it. Also,
trickle chargers don\'t work well with some chemistries. Use a charger
that matches the manufacturers recommendations for the battery
chemistry.
Make sure they are at 100% before
you use them and then run the down fully. Use the recharger and you are back to normal usage.
Running LiIon, NiCd, NiMH, and lead-acid batteries to zero are a great
way to kill them. That why LiIon battery packs come with a BMS
(battery management system) PC board to prevent you from completely
discharging the battery. For a time, NiCd cells did have a \"memory
effect\" problem which could be reversed by discharging to zero, but
that\'s no longer the case with modern battery chemistries.
Consider other variables, excessive heat, humidity, moisture, the deep freeze, and other conditions.
All batteries in some way are a chemistry problem. The chemical composition each is made of has
to factor in the appropriate application you intend to use the battery for and how often you use the
device (especially timers and other appliances that have intermittent or from time to time use).

Just thought I would impart this advice and encourage you to read several links from the google
search quoted. God Bless you and have a great day.

Oops! mistakes here. Correcting.

Well, you\'re off to a bad start in the information business. However,
don\'t take it personally. Understanding the characteristics of
various battery chemistries is tricky and often confusing. There\'s
also quite a bit of bad advice on the internet. I suggest skimming
this site for better information. There are things I disagree with on
the site, but it\'s better than most:
https://batteryuniversity.com

Will do. Thank you.

Sincerely,


Charles Lucas



I usually take batteries out of stuff I won\'t need right away but they\'ve been leaking in a plastic bag anyway.

P.S. It depends on the what materials the cases are composed of that holds the chemistry inside of the casing.
Quality can vary. Buyer Beware and avoid sticker shock on the high prices of batteries. They have really gone up.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff,

I really appreciate the information you had posted on the different battery chemistries out there. Yes,
they are confusing. I am not a chemist (although I know batteries require chemicals to work and that
they work within a range of temperatures and specific gravities)- I am a tech. Different batteries do a
bit of a different kind of thing, even though there are variations all over the place. I appreciate the
information.

Sincerely,


Charles Lucas

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 12:48:38 -0700 (PDT), Charles Lucas
<charlesandmilly@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 10:45:32 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:24:31 -0700 (PDT), Charles Lucas
charles...@gmail.com> wrote:

What I gleaned from reading the content on these links is that even with the best conditions, you will have
a dead battery in 3-4 years.
I think you\'re confusing different battery chemistries. Shelf life on
alkaline batteries is guaranteed by the manufactory to be 5, 7, or 10
years from date of manufacture depending on vendor.

Manufacturers can say anything for their marketing and to get your money out of you. I have rarely ever seen
a product live up to its claim- especially in regards to time. Buyer Beware. I am inclined to think that in regards
to batteries, the data about them is made up on longevity. Then it depends upon the conditions that are subjected
to that. Tell me, who really tests these batteries anyways to determine how long they last?

Well, just about any manufacturer that wants to sell products in the
USA or EU dreads the day when they receive a letter from an attorney
announcing a class action lawsuit on behalf of a currently unspecified
mob of \"victims\" by their product not living up to advertised
specifications.
<https://www.reuters.com/article/us-energizer-duracell-lawsuit/duracell-energizer-end-lawsuits-over-battery-life-claims-idUSKBN28H2XM>
If Costco or Kirkland specifies a 7-year *SHELF* life for their AAA
alkaline cells, they had better be certain that the batteries will not
be dead on arrival after 7 years of sitting on the shelf.
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg>
I\'m dead tired right now and don\'t want to go looking for battery test
methods and standards. There should be something in here:
<https://espec.com/na/chamber_faq/answer/battery_test_methods_and_specifications>
<https://batterystandards.info>
<https://www.ul.com/services/battery-safety-testing>
Lots of battery test labs found using Google:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=battery+test+lab>

I guess I should mention that the \"life\" of a battery is rather
ambiguous. The first questions is which life test?
Shelf life, run time, cycle life (number of charge cycles) and all the
aforementioned lives under adverse environmental conditions (hot,
cold, humidity, immersion, altitude, various gases, explosion proof,
etc).
<https://www.batteryuniverse.com/blog/battery-efficiency/how-long-should-batteries-last/>
I would NOT expect to see laboratory test results for batteries found
on eBay or Amazon, but retail, industrial, commercial, aviation,
construction, and other mission critical applications demand lab tests
and certifications before they\'ll buy anything that might ruin their
day.

I really appreciate the information you had posted on the different battery chemistries out there. Yes,
they are confusing. I am not a chemist (although I know batteries require chemicals to work and that
they work within a range of temperatures and specific gravities)- I am a tech. Different batteries do a
bit of a different kind of thing, even though there are variations all over the place. I appreciate the
information.

Y\'er welcome. Much of what I\'ve done in my checkered past has
involved some flavor of chemistry. I survived some classes in
college, but the rest I learned by reading the books and \"Learn by
Destroying\". I still have the scorch marks on my Formica workbench
and oak kitchen table. I\'m retired now, so I spend my time watching
others repeat my mistakes on YouTube. However, you don\'t really need
to know much about chemistry to work with batteries. I believe it\'s
more important to learn about the electronics that are wrapped around
the battery and which are used to charge the battery. For example,
the all important ESR (equivalent series resistance), which is the
basis for what separates a good battery from a dead battery, can be
understood and used without much knowledge of the chemical reactions
involved.

I mentioned Battery University. I think you\'ll also find these sites
interesting and useful:
<https://www.candlepowerforums.com>
<https://budgetlightforum.com>

Good luck.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Charles Lucas]

On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 4:25:56 PM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 12:48:38 -0700 (PDT), Charles Lucas
charles...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, July 22, 2022 at 10:45:32 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 19:24:31 -0700 (PDT), Charles Lucas
charles...@gmail.com> wrote:

What I gleaned from reading the content on these links is that even with the best conditions, you will have
a dead battery in 3-4 years.
I think you\'re confusing different battery chemistries. Shelf life on
alkaline batteries is guaranteed by the manufactory to be 5, 7, or 10
years from date of manufacture depending on vendor.

Manufacturers can say anything for their marketing and to get your money out of you. I have rarely ever seen
a product live up to its claim- especially in regards to time. Buyer Beware. I am inclined to think that in regards
to batteries, the data about them is made up on longevity. Then it depends upon the conditions that are subjected
to that. Tell me, who really tests these batteries anyways to determine how long they last?
Well, just about any manufacturer that wants to sell products in the
USA or EU dreads the day when they receive a letter from an attorney
announcing a class action lawsuit on behalf of a currently unspecified
mob of \"victims\" by their product not living up to advertised
specifications.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-energizer-duracell-lawsuit/duracell-energizer-end-lawsuits-over-battery-life-claims-idUSKBN28H2XM
If Costco or Kirkland specifies a 7-year *SHELF* life for their AAA
alkaline cells, they had better be certain that the batteries will not
be dead on arrival after 7 years of sitting on the shelf.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg
I\'m dead tired right now and don\'t want to go looking for battery test
methods and standards. There should be something in here:
https://espec.com/na/chamber_faq/answer/battery_test_methods_and_specifications
https://batterystandards.info
https://www.ul.com/services/battery-safety-testing
Lots of battery test labs found using Google:
https://www.google.com/search?q=battery+test+lab

I guess I should mention that the \"life\" of a battery is rather
ambiguous. The first questions is which life test?
Shelf life, run time, cycle life (number of charge cycles) and all the
aforementioned lives under adverse environmental conditions (hot,
cold, humidity, immersion, altitude, various gases, explosion proof,
etc).
https://www.batteryuniverse.com/blog/battery-efficiency/how-long-should-batteries-last/
I would NOT expect to see laboratory test results for batteries found
on eBay or Amazon, but retail, industrial, commercial, aviation,
construction, and other mission critical applications demand lab tests
and certifications before they\'ll buy anything that might ruin their
day.
I really appreciate the information you had posted on the different battery chemistries out there. Yes,
they are confusing. I am not a chemist (although I know batteries require chemicals to work and that
they work within a range of temperatures and specific gravities)- I am a tech. Different batteries do a
bit of a different kind of thing, even though there are variations all over the place. I appreciate the
information.
Y\'er welcome. Much of what I\'ve done in my checkered past has
involved some flavor of chemistry. I survived some classes in
college, but the rest I learned by reading the books and \"Learn by
Destroying\". I still have the scorch marks on my Formica workbench
and oak kitchen table. I\'m retired now, so I spend my time watching
others repeat my mistakes on YouTube. However, you don\'t really need
to know much about chemistry to work with batteries. I believe it\'s
more important to learn about the electronics that are wrapped around
the battery and which are used to charge the battery. For example,
the all important ESR (equivalent series resistance), which is the
basis for what separates a good battery from a dead battery, can be
understood and used without much knowledge of the chemical reactions
involved.

I mentioned Battery University. I think you\'ll also find these sites
interesting and useful:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com
https://budgetlightforum.com

Good luck.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I really appreciate the greats lengths you went to in your explanation. I am going to the sites
you recommended to learn more. I did have a nagging question. In the late 1980\'s and into
the early 1990\'s, Radio Shack actually sold an alkaline battery \"recharger\", or so they called
it, for around $50.00 retail back then. They stated it will recharge alkaline batteries despite the
responses you made to the contrary in your replies. Would you clarify what this product
- the alkaline battery \'recharger\' as Archer claims it was- actually did then since this
company actually made that claim? I even bought one- although it was 30 years ago when I
did. This is a mystery I would like to solve. Also, by asking this, I am not going contrary to
what you said- I would just like to know to put the issue to bed for good. I really appreciate
your valued opinion and request your clarification on this.

Sincerely,


Charles Lucas

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 13:35:00 -0700 (PDT), Charles Lucas
<charlesandmilly@gmail.com> wrote:

In the late 1980\'s and into
the early 1990\'s, Radio Shack actually sold an alkaline battery \"recharger\", or so they called
it, for around $50.00 retail back then. They stated it will recharge alkaline batteries despite the
responses you made to the contrary in your replies. Would you clarify what this product
- the alkaline battery \'recharger\' as Archer claims it was- actually did then since this
company actually made that claim? I even bought one- although it was 30 years ago when I
did. This is a mystery I would like to solve. Also, by asking this, I am not going contrary to
what you said- I would just like to know to put the issue to bed for good. I really appreciate
your valued opinion and request your clarification on this.

\"Did Radio Shack sell alkaline battery chargers?\"
<https://www.google.com/search?q=Did+Radio+Shack+sell+%22alkaline%22+battery+chargers%3F&tbm=isch>
<https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Did+Radio+Shack+sell+alkaline+battery+chargers%3F&first=1&tsc=ImageHoverTitle>
Nothing found. If Google and Bing can\'t find it, it doesn\'t exist.
The double quotes in the Google search means that the word \"alkaline\"
must be found in the results.

I don\'t recall seeing any Radio Shack conventional alkaline chargers.
They did sell chargers that were intended to charge alkaline
rechargeable batteries such as Rayovac Renewals batteries.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=rayovac+renewal+power+station&tbm=isch>

Radio Shack did sell a fair number of \"Universal\" charger models.
However, RS was very careful to specify the type of battery chemistry
that could be recharged.

However, there were a few chargers that didn\'t clearly specify that
they were not intended to recharge conventional alkaline batteries.
For example:
<https://www.whateverworks.com/itemdy00.aspx?T1=K8558>
Notice the reviews. Yes, you can trickle charge a new alkaline
battery to about 30% SoC, maybe once. However, it takes forever to
recharge and usually causes the cell to leak electrolyte. I don\'t
think there was any \"experimenter\" in that era that didn\'t at least
try to recharge alkaline cells in whatever charger they had available.
When I tried it, the cells overheated, melted the plastic and made a
big mess. Lesson learned.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558